It sounds like early parts of the werewolf history is just an an endless cycle of; Werewolves show up somewhere, Werewolves find an excuse to kill an entire group of people, werewolves realize that what they just did is a bad idea, rinse and repeat.
@@zacharyhawley1693 yes and no. Garou are not stupid, they are just primal. So if a human wants to exploit a Garou, this is fine... but the consequences might be dire. tread with caution territory :)
The sad truth about the Werewolves of Garou is that it’s in their nature because of their rage that causes them to make the same mistakes repeatedly throughout history continuously over & over again & again. They can’t always help it. That’s why they always act first, then ask questions later.
A common theme across all the WoD lines seems to be the supernaturals bringing about their own problems with the humans. Vampires used to think they could rule openly, until humans started hunting them. Mages using magic to rule like gods prompted the formation of the Order of Reason. Fae used to terrorise mortals because they could, until the mortals fought back with the best weapon they had, banality.
@@lazarofstygia2241 reminds me of an old d&d discussion me and my friends had where wolves have the pack vampires have covens but humans well hell we have communities villages towns cities churches Nations, hairless murder apes that turned harmless rocks into the most devastatingly powerful weapon on Earth. PS don't fuck with humans
Vampires and Fae and Garou, yes, but the order of reason is formed by mages, the ascension war is a civil war for the control of reality, in other words, the technocracy don´t represent humanity, they are mages too. You have fallen prey to NWO´s mental manipulation. :p
@@DMEGC While it is true that the Technocracy, for the most part, has forgotten its purpose in protecting humanity from the depredations of the supernatural (especially mages), when they started, that was their goal. Of course, this being WoD, good intentions are nearly always corrupted.
A lot of players I've spoken to think that Werewolf cosmology of the Triat is incompatible with the other game lines, but I disagree. If the cosmos of the World of Darkness is a balance of complex natural forces built by the Fallen, the Wyrm, Weaver and Wyld are just names given to the fundamentally broken pieces of that balance. The cosmology of Werewolf itself states that the Weaver went mad, and none know why, but I think I do; according to Demon, the Fall caused God to strike reality (or, more accurately, gently brush it) and shatter paradise. This literally broke the cosmos into different pieces, creating the realms of the Umbra, whereas before in the perfect universe all things existed simultaneously (both outside and inside the time stream) against and on top and next to each other. This irreversibly out of order state would have sent the Weaver, the natural force of order in the universe, to go completely insane and begin trying (in vain) to correct the imbalance.
After having spent around 200 hours reading every page on the white wolf wiki I can; can indeed confirm: there are very few if any plot holes. At worst, you have different interpretations of the exact same things using differing language by different cultures, just as we have in the real world. When I was watching the video on DtF yesterday, yours was my exact thought: the moment God poked reality was when the Weaver became self aware, and it was all downhill from there. Would love to read the 'Unified WoD Lore' and see how close these events actually align with those of reality.
@@jeffbrownstain I completely agree, it wouldn't even be that hard to weave (no pun intended) together. The main problem you'd run into if you tried to do this officially are the anti Judeo-Christian tables and groups who hate any mention of the Abrahamic God, I have a lot of personal experience with that set on the Facebook and Roll20 groups, they despise any mention of Him even in a fictional role-playing game.
@@jupiterrising887 I've never met a real Christian who cares that much about such petty things. Also, from my anecdotal experience; the past three years of world events has actually been part of the rapture and the prophesied 'End Times', and it took all the True Believers in that first wave of the government-illness-that shall-not-be-named. Those left are just annoying and loud powermongers using their cults to drag the last of the fence sitters into the ground. I wouldn't personally trust anyone alive claiming they follow the Truth of Jesus these days. The last true Christian I knew was one of the first people taken in late 2019. Now, the Muslim faith tho... don't screw with them.. They have the collective power of millions ready and willing to be aimed at anyone their concensus wants to erase, and they ARE a weaponized collective. Gotta wonder what's inside that giant box at mecca that millions send their intent and energy to multiple times every single day 🤔 Regardless, no one claiming to care about Allah, Yahweh or God in rpgs actually cares all that much: it's usually just cognitive dissonance lashing out and they'll forget the encounter immediately, especially if it took place online.
I love Werewolf, and yeah they have screwed up a lot, but I think that has to be the case in order to blur the lines of who is really good or bad. The world of darkness isn't supposed to be so easily cut and dry on issues like this I think. It's supposed to be grey and feel some what hopeless, and with a back story of continual failure, I think Werewolf succeeds at that.
I think 🤔 the same too. Also it’s interesting how most Animal shapeshifters were their own thing until they kinda were massacred or forced to adapt. Overall. The world of Werewolf: the apocalypse is really amazing. Like, the evil becomes stronger over time, while the forces of good end up staying the same as always. The plot is always becoming bigger and bigger. And the history and lore is never end. I believe this series would entertain people a lot.
Thing about garou is, not only their rage is as much a strength as it is a weakness, they also have a culture that rewards reckless behaviour. Not to all of them, it depends on the tribe and sometimes on the auspice, but, in general, it doesn't take much to anger them beyond reason, itching for a fight. It isn't surprising that shit hits the fan a whole fuckin' lot.
@@SankyEON they all do it. Just because a part of Fenris were with the Nazis, doesn't mean they all don't practice. Then reality most people practice is way or another
@@SankyEON well that would be more fitting for the Silver Fangs, the Swords of Heimdall are big on eugenics, but the Silver Fangs literally require you to have 3 pts. in pure breed to even be considered.
why not it's a human wolf hybrid, there are SO many ways eugenics and werewolves could be discussed in the same sentence you're certainly not limited to WoD.
Garou show up, garou make up a reason to murder, spirits tell them to get out, worm god corrupts the spirits, repeat. They don’t seem to bright for being created as the guardian species, but I bet they gave themselves that title rather than having it communicated to them by Gaia herself.
Werewolf is my favorite lore, and while I can sense the mild distaste in the history presented here, I can say that you have done a fair job of explaining everything
Humans and Werewolves are natural enemies! Just like Vampires and Werewolves. And Shapeshifters and Werewolves. And Werewolves and other Werewolves. Damn Werewolves! They've ruined Gaia!
That sounds pretty intriguing. Some sort of reset puts the world back, slightly different than how it was but where the Weaver's order has been honed into machine-fine being, made with purpose and direction for a goal. Does that relate Demons to WtA in some strange family tie?
Just finished the game. The lore is surprisingly deep for a 3 hour Visual Novel Game. The sequel should definitely be made bigger and grander or soemthing.
Great work and channel, as is your norm. Would love to see to see more on the Wyrm and it's relevance in the modern setting, i.e. Founding and operations of Pentex, Enron, Tellus and such. Also, a top 10 Garou of the Red Talons 😈
Nice work on the Werewolf the Apocalypse lore man!🐺. Since I love dragons the most then the werewolves are my favorite second monster in mythology along with the other changing breeds.
Gregornous Deathwing is a Zmei, a powerful Wyld-creature corrupted by the Wyrm and held in thrall by Baba Yaga. The lore is unclear as to whether Deathwing was originally a dragon, or changed to resemble the Wyrm.
Thank you for the information both the Zmei and Gregornous Deathwing. Also, I found that the Zmei is named after the Three-Headed Dragon called Zmey Gornych in Russian mythology.
@@lazarofstygia2241 It is possible that the Zmei were originally lesser dragon spirits, as there is a Totem of Dragon, who is the spiritual progenitor of the Mokole.
I think you did a grand job breaking down the brass tacks of the important Garou moments, despite your less than optimistic views on the setting. I also feel like WtA was a bit weaker as a setting than most of the others because the hyper-focus on the lore was always either on some raged-up bully doing a war crimes, or a noble soul too gentle for this world who sacrifices themselves for a temporary win. The individual stories of people waking up one day as a monster and had to live in this whole other, over the top violent world while also maintaining their humanity, was always pushed to the side in the writing so we could hear about the latest time the group "sacrificed so much to win a fight" and then learn zero lessons the next time a big Bane comes calling. I kinda liked Forsaken, where werewolves *thought* they were doing the right thing, but nobody else really agreed and they don't have the entire world of spirit enablers.
Awesome video, for all it's flaws I do really like Werewolf the Apocalypse (my personal favorites when it comes to lore are all the other Fera/Changing Breeds that exist within the world pf Darkness) though you are lore of the Garou is very complex and confusing (I've read a lot of the WTA books and still get confused where the umbra is concerned) but you did an awesome explaining the history of the Garou which can get pretty confusing at times too. Hopefully the upcoming WTA V5 will fix any problems present. Keep up the good work.
@@lazarofstygia2241 do you think you'll ever do a video for it? You single handedly got my interest sparked into the world of darkness tabletop games and I'd love to hear you explain the umbra.
I always wanted to re-imagine the Garou as having a stronger 'Pack' Mentality than a 'Rage-filled' one - Seeing them join the Beast courts eventually, perhaps with player-intervention, avoiding the War of Rage altogether.
First there was one. It was lonely. It divided into three. Wyld formless oldest creator Dynaism. The middle born. Weawer Spider Stasis the Order. And youngest Wyrm Serpent Entropy. So Wyld created ideas and concepts like 'sweet' 'juicy' 'tree' etc... Weawer collected ordered and constructed stuff of the chaotic inspiration of her older sister. And Created stuff such as Apple trees and whatever. So the universe would be in balance and not just infinity of apple trees and whatever. The Wyrm the youngest son ate the apples and trees. All was good and balanced. Then something happened. Wyld left. Mayby to create a new universe or some other sandbox. Wyrm Kept on eating the apples and stuff. Weawer panicked. "Stop eating my apples (and stuff)!" Since there was no more inspiration and creation or something. So Weawer imprisoned her younger brother the serpent for ages. And this left the rest of universe alone for a while to evolve. Of cause in time Wyrm was able to wiggle his pinky finger out of the cocoon of a prison. And offcouse Wyrm was very angry. And thus created banes and Fomori to corrupt and destroy the universe Weawer had created. Now those two are at war and mortals are I'm middle of that.
The 1st War of Rage: the garou look around, "hey, no ones in charge." Other fera: nope. Garou: we're in charge. Other fera: nope. Garou: ah, a dominance challenge, as challenged party I choose ass kicking. Other fera: ono!
@@BlueBedouin no matter which race/group you're in.... you're probably just some poor idiot in way over their head and if you're VERY lucky you might even have some general idea of what's actively plotting your murder.
@@lazarofstygia2241 I don't think the Garou are heroes. They may sometimes do things that we agree with on occasion, but the vast majority of their actions are monstrous.
This is pretty amazing. I love it. Will you be making a new video for the game that was released? To explain stuff and such? Like, what is The Earthblood and all that? And what the hell happened to Aedanna and who Cahal is?
Ironically, my favorite thing about Werewolf isn’t the Werewolves themselves. It’s the Gurahl; the Werebears, and Healers of Gaia. They’re one of the few examples of a changing creature that isn’t actively malicious, despite being born of one of the most aggressive animals in nature. They’re gentle, kind, slow to anger but quick to defend their friends…and the Garou murdered them. They murdered them for no better reason then “They said we can’t have their magic.” Now these gentle creatures are hunted wherever they go, forced to survive in the most brutal fashion, all thanks to the _Fucking Garou._ They deserve every bit of the suffering they’re enduring, and not just because of what they did to the Gurahl. They dug their own graves the day they decided to try and do everyone else’s job, now they get to lay in it, and the Gurahl get to point and laugh while hollering “TOLD YOU SO!”
What really blows my mind, is how accurate the game, the occult, the mystery religions, and what so called scholars call mythology, which I believe is actual history, it is. Brother I've been researching history all my life and seeking answers, even more so after my tour in Albania and Kosovo in 1999 and later after my tour in Iraq, I know it sounds crazy but this may not be that far fetched when looking at the personalities of so of the worlds leaders through time
I think the Garou are the most human of the WoD creatures. The act first and deal with the consequences later or the not stopping to think that just because they can doesn't mean they should mentality is so very human the Garou just take it to the next level. But in the end the Garou are just doing what they were designed to do, they simply sometimes do it to well and over reach causing more problems then they solve.
You comment makes no sense. You claimed Humans act first and ask questions later (calling them stupid), what proof do you have of that? Your claim is so ambiguous and vague it doesn't mean anything
The Inquisition does hunt Garou, but they consider the Werewolves a lower priority than Vampires. Simple reason is the Garou get old and die; Vampires don't.
@@lazarofstygia2241 Also Werewolves are fucking scary and a single one can rip an entire professional quad of soldiers to shreds. You'd need some truly suicidal badass inquisitors with True Faith to even have a hope in hell against them!
@@CarrowMind You do realize vampires are just as powerful right? With their disciplines they can get even stronger, and become basically bulletproofing The actual question is, why aren't the vampires and werewolves hunting inquisition themselves?
@@MybeautifulandamazingPrincess Because Inquisition is far bigger, better equipped and most of all can operate during the day. That is kindred's biggest weakness and why they will never stand over mankind. For every part of WoD mankind would always win in a war. Mage? Paradox would cripple them and win the war for mankind. Vampire? Walk in during the day. Garou? Get big squads with big guns. Yeah many people will die but that doesn't really matter.
Yeah WtA went a bit too hard on laying the worst mistakes of the changing breeds at the feet of garou. Events like the war of rage could have been written as being firmly started by another party, with the garou being the ones who finished what was started, but went too hard in their victory. Being incorrigible assholes to the metis. Casually genociding the other fera who narrowly survived the war or rage (werebats).
They need an MMORPG based off this franchise. Why? Too much potential to just have a few videogames, and each be about different races, though I know there was also a tabletop game
Man i been wanting to play but i have no idea how i got alot of pdf books download on my phone but nobody to play or help me with them i read them but it seems i need more people to play
Garou. Kill first, don't ask questions. Unfortunately that's usually not the best ideology. Funny that Garou should value wisdom, and they keep doing idiotic things, but likely that's the Rage. Great video ❤
hey if someone one to play the werewolf as a game of thrones type of game where you could use the other fera to how would you play it. you could use all of the werewolf themes of white wolf get rid of the rule you like. surprise me how would you do it.
Dude i gave you a like because your honest but your missing the point your supposed to save the Garu by fixing their stupidity that's the role play side of werewolf. Unfortunately I think 5th edition is going to also screw them up.
Why does the last 4th just sound like a shitpost lol "And then the worm made Enron And the Baba Yaga was there And then there was a secret war in the Amazon between enron and werewolves"
Generally, no. However, some can reincarnate (Past Lives) and some Stargazers seem to be able to transmigrate their souls (control the conditions under which they reincarnate).
Have ever thought about doing video on the week of nightmares covering all game lines vampire werewolf mage hunter the like or do you feel that would just be a waste of time?
Officially, the Gangrel are Wyrm creatures and Werewolves kill them on sight because of that. On an individual basis, there can be some less-violent encounters - particularly between Gangrel and Silent Striders when they are in a Roma (Gypsy) Camp. But mostly, it's Kill On Sight. In 3rd Ed, there was actually more peace between Nosferatu and Bone Gnawers than between Gangrel and any of the Garou Tribes, even Silent Striders.
