Wet tumbling brass without stainless steel pins? 

I’m definitely going to try using bbs!

@@thealsatian4232 l will give it a shoot to, they should come out a lot easier to.

Don't the BB's rust?

@@donaldcadwell3911 zinc coating. However they may rust over time. Copperhead bbs would work to I reckon. Used to be same price. I thought of the bb idea I just feel like it may not be affective on the primer pocket but the lemme shine might take car of that just fine. We use lemme shine With stainless pins and it comes out almost looking like Nicole brass pretty cool stuff

Hello @FortuneCookie45LC I'm a big fan. Your videos are very informative and helpful 👏

Wassup Cookie

That's a lot of brass. That had to be pretty noisy!

Not all that bad only used about a 5 gallon bucket full and it was outside the real noise was when I dry polished I used a small cement mixer with pecan shells

The thought of that sight has got me laughing. Barrels of brass, a washing machine, and cement mixer. 😄😄😄 Now if that's not commitment IDK what is.

I'd love to hear how it works out for you!

Thanks David! Sounds like you have a ready supply of 9mm and/or 40.

It's great to hear from you again Warrior! How have you been?

Centerfire remains King on this 3/4 acre but have exploded with reckless abandonment into shotshell reloading due to the endless possibilities of what you put into that tube to hurl down range. Next planned step is a small lathe and mini-mill to turn me into a mad inventor of shotshell stuffings. As usual I have only enough dollar for the required lab coat, and, pity me I don't have the hair to complete the "mad experimentalist" look to impress the ladies down at the nursing home!

Hahaha 😁🤣 That sounds like a ton of fun. I’ve never loaded shotgun, but I’ll be doing some .410 this fall.

Thanks!

Thanks! When I lived in a cooler environment I had a system involving a hair dryer that I used to dry the brass.

That's outstanding! FYI, I ended up doing a 3rd wet tumbling video as well: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mgAcXMT9eZo.html

There's certainly nothing wrong with using the pins all the time. Thanks for watching and for taking the time to comment John. Good shooting to you!

Thank you! How are you building it? PVC?

+Loads of Bacon. I am using a 3 gallon bucket , pvc tubes cut in half and marine epoxy them to the wall perpendicular to the bottom of the bucket. the bucket has a Gamma seal lid. I made a square box with angles rollers that are powered by a old drill that has adjustable speed. Totally crude , but works. First trial run , I added duct tape to the outside of bucket to add some traction .

Sounds just about perfect.

@@reelamor9950 I just did the exact same thing super simple

@@FWCaptain-kv6sm bucket still going, starting wear in spots, but still going. Should add the Update.. I added a food disposal motor for the rotation, and it’s wicked.

Thanks vrich3733! I'm glad you found the channel. FC45LC is a great guy! I found his channel a few years ago when I began to consider casting bullets, and I've been learning from him ever since.

Thanks! I feel very similar to you - that's part of the reason I still don't own a progressive press. (That said, there are some parts of the reloading process that I enjoy more than others.)

Thanks Alan! That's a great tip on both the wax and the strainer.

Thanks deltaskyhawk! That sounds like a great process. I agree that lots of 9mm would be served well by a progressive press, but I still don't plan to shoot that much. If I did have a progressive, it would probably be set up for 44 Spl most of the time.

How much does 500 of the 2-56 ss machine screws weigh? That is a very good idea you have there 😀 I might have to go get some. Maybe even mix them with the pins i already have?

Promising idea, but short on details. What length and head design (pan, flat, castle, etc)?

Folks, I cut my pin cost IN HALF by buying the reject pins- they're shorter or longer than standard, but work just as well. Don't use screws, they'll rust and make a mess. Treat yourself better-get the reject pins. Also, always decap before you run your cases through the polisher. Just better.

Your English is just fine Blygutta. Very good idea with the used primers!

I was thinking about using the spent primers myself and see how they turn out.

I think a lot of folks interpret their own preference as necessity or requirement. I like shiny brass, but clean enough is clean enough. Good hearing from you brother!

Thanks for sharing!

P.S. I sent you a personal P.M. Dave.

I enjoyed chatting with you last night Dave.

hello thoraxe, use a ultrasonic cleaner before tumbling and you dont have too deal with the pins

Thanks Burl; I'll have to take a look at that Franklin separator.

Who is franklin , i know Frankford Arsenal i have a lot of their products but I've never heard of Franklin.

Thanks Gregory! I've always used the pins with my rifle cases, and have no plans to stop using them.

I had never thought of using the dry tumbler like that for the pins. Great idea. Thanks Willie!

Try it without the pins and see what you think.

@@LoadsofBacon I came to the conclusion I need to get a different stainless steel media. I’m considering the diamond cut stuff I believe those will be easier to get out of the 223 cases. But even still I really like the finish on my case’s after I dry tumble them with car wax.

I'll continue to deprime/use the pins on most of my brass, just not the 9mm, (and maybe not the 380 if I ever start reloading that). I too like the results.

If you not check every case by eye for left behind pins ,they wil get stuck in the case sometimes and block a progresive press or prevent decapping, and with primer removed before tumbling without pins ,cleaning will go better because case is more open

Thank you Rusty!

No pins/depriming is definitely faster. Thanks Joe.

With you there Joe, the pins are a pain in the butt, no pins and good results...

"Laziness is the first step towards efficiency.”

Both methods, dry and wet tumbling, work, but I much prefer the wet method. Only real word of caution - go easy on the lemi-shine. If you use too much, your brass will be dull, and maybe even turn a funny color.

Loads of Bacon thank you for all the great vids. I am learning loads from you!

Thank you David, that's a huge compliment!

Thanks

I've looked at one of the Frankford Arsenal magnets, but haven't picked one up yet. Why do you lube your handgun cases? Are your sizing dies steel instead of carbide?

Using a magnet I have found is a lot faster for separating. I'm using the Lee 4 die setup that is carbide & have found that the simple job of using lub makes for a smoother job. Since I tumble twice, the lub is removed & goes through the dies just a lot smoother.

I’ve known a couple people that lube their brass even when using carbide dies. Sounds like you’ve found a process that works well and that you’re happy with. There’s nothing wrong with that, and I bet you have some very shiny brass.

Getting ready to "improve" on my homemade tumbler. Always seems like something is needed or needs attention to keep the hobbies going forward. I use liquid lanolin & 99% Isopropyl alcohol in a 1:10 ration for my lub, simple & effective.

I hadn't heard of the 358 Hoosier, but just did some reading. I like it - sounds like a great cartridge, and built to enable folks to shoot within/despite silly gun laws. I just cleaned some revolver brass yesterday, and I used the pins. No current plans to quit using them for anything other than the cheap semi-auto brass.

The dawn and lemishine are great for knocking off the wax after resizing as well, the pins last forever so I just leave them in the tumbler all the time. Also have you checked into converting tumbler to 4" pvc? Its less of a pain in the butt to remove a test cap vs the caps that come on the harbor freight tumblers and learned that attaching half inch pvc cut in half at 2 inch lengths to rotate the brass and media greatly reduces the time required to clean. I first tried with hot glue like the video I watched here on utube but after a few batches they had all popped off so I went to pvc goop product and they have stayed in place thus far.

Just a couple days ago I saw the picture on a "suggested" video that showed that. Probably the same video you are referencing. I haven't watched it yet, but I plan to. That setup has to be a lot better for larger brass like 30-06. I appreciate it!

Great video as always, keep them coming. As far as wet tumbling rifle brass I tumble 300 blackout, .223/5.56, 308 and 30-06 and always get great results with the pins inside the cases. Without the pins if you run for two hours they looks really good too. However nothing looks as nice as a pin wash for an hour. I use a franklin arsenal wet tumbler.

Thanks navyudt, I appreciate it! Something about the specific size of the pins I use - they often get stuck in the 30-06 necks. They're easy to get out, but it slows me down just a bit.

Thanks Josue! As you can tell by reading through the other comments, there are several folks that will take issue with your method, but it sure sounds good to me.

Loads of Bacon yea i read a few lol hell i leave my 9mm behind too, i buy 1000 cases of once fired and polished brass for $18 so its not a huge loss, only time i come back with 9mm brass is when i shot it out my ar since i have my brass catcher, same with 223 and 300blk

I use the franklin arsenal standard media separator and based on what I've seen fortune cookie do it's a huge time saver. www.btibrands.com/product/quick-n-ez-standard-media-separator/ I'm going to start my own channel because Elvis, Fortune cookie and loads of bacon are having all the fun. I will share some of my secrets. I've learned so much from the guys mentioned above I figured I owe the community back.

Thanks James and navyudt; I looked at that a long time ago - time to go look again. Navyudt - you should definitely start a channel! I just started a few months ago, and I'm having a blast. This is an awesome community of folks! Let me know when you do; I'll definitely subscribe.

With the rotary style separator it is a 30 second chore . When doing 223 in bulk it is a real time saver. Mine is a Lyman , 30-35 bucks at Midway . Worth every penny .

I'll definitely check out the Lyman.

Loads of Bacon I started my channel with a new name. navyudt is now known as nycreloader there was already a few navyudt's on RU-vid.

the brass rubbing against each other is all the media it needs to get the outside clean, soap and citrus not needed either. hot water is best.

@@signlsirchir2156 more interested in getting everything including the primer pockets clean whether it's needed or not. The southern shine stainless media works great. Better and easier to use than pins.

I've heard that about steel shot, and the same with BBs.

Thanks Craig!

I've only used my vibratory tumbler to apply powder coat - never to tumble brass. I've never considered waxing the brass.

Nothing at all wrong with that. The bullets will certainly go down the barrel without all that, but if it makes you happy and content, why not? I enjoy reloading, and there are several things I do as a matter of preference and not necessity. Thanks Keith!

and if you plan to clean alot of brass, you could try using a concrete mixer with a plastic drum. Much easier! Kobalt makes a decent one

I didn't use the pins that came with the tumbler. I bought larger .047" x .255" pins off Ebay. They never get stuck in any primer pockets.

Lemi Shine is pretty cheap at Lowe's or Menards to mess with anything else. Like driving 50 mile to save .3 cents a gallon on gas!

Thanks Bob! Folks like to argue lots of theories, but evidence and experience like yours is a huge help! (Every time I see your name I think of the guitar player from the band Petra. I listened to a lot of their music growing up, and got to see them in concert a couple times.)

Thanks.

That's great info JB. Thanks!

Thank you Sir, I finally have a proper use for the salad spinner which is collecting dust for ages!!

Just be sure to mark it, no food!

literally picked one up today for $4.80 and just saw your comment haha

@@LoadsofBacon I would recommend that you purchase your own spinner and not use the wife's. I used my wife's once and there was a noticeable reduction in the sandwich production for a couple of weeks afterwards. Walmart fixed that.

I just tumbled some semi-auto brass; I left the primers in and didn't use the pins. I also just tumbled some revolver brass. It was done without the primers, and with the pins. Both are going to shoot just fine. I also added bacon to my dinner last night. It was awesome! No choice needed - this method is the best!

Loads of Bacon Just happen to be having BLT's for dinner tonight, ain't life great 😃

Thanks Bob!

Not if you rinse the cases thoroughly and get the freaking pins out of the cases.

I use a magnet to clear the pins.

Thank you. That sounds like a great method for folks that have an ultrasonic cleaner.

I have never annealed brass. If I ever do, it will likely only be bottle-necked rifle cases.

It’s nice having options. Dry tumbling certainly works. I have several little kids in the house, so one of the things I appreciate about wet tumbling is that none of the fouling or residue goes airborne.

Loads of Bacon good point.

The speed difference of the tumbler is a non-issue, you can load most 9mm cases far more times than that, and I can assure you, FortuneCookie45LC is much older than 30.

+Walter Bunning. I see your point, and I understand your issue. At the end it comes down to your own experience. If you are satisfied with what you get the way you do it, why would you do it differently, right? The residue issue is a bit more complicated than it looks. I am sure a lot depends on what chemistry you use in the tumbler liquid, and I agree that it can be much-much better than dry tumbling. On the other hand, if the tumbler liquid is not able to dissolve completely the residue on the walls, it can amount to a lot in the case of the 9mm. Just consider the following: the inner surface of the 9mm Luger case is approximately 400 mm2 (it is a bit more, but it does not matter). If you say that a really dirty looking case has visible, dark residue on the quarter of that surface area only (that is 100 mm2), and the thickness of this residue is 33 microns only (half of the thickness of the human hair), and the residue is a porous soot with the density of water, you get exactly 0.05 grains, which is 1% of a 5 grain load. Does the thermo-chemically eroded brass count as residue? Does the hot gas erosion increase the effective surface significantly? Is all the residue visible to the human eye? I do not know. But these are questions one must answer to know the magnitude of the residue mass that remains in the case. Abrasive tumbling may remove gas eroded surfaces and residues which we are not able to see. Ok, this has got too academical, sorry for that. :-)

George, I love that you continually bring a different and/or more in-depth perspective to the discussion. For the 9mm, it comes down to me saving a small amount of time and effort, and I don't really care about a slight increase in deviation of velocity or shot placement as this particular round is just a "go have fun poking holes in paper" type of thing for me. I kind of view it as an overgrown .22 - it can be used for a few things, but it's primarily for plinking.

+Loads of Bacon. Yeah, I was pretty sure about your approach to your Beretta. :-) And in this case it really makes no sense to be meticulous. Indeed, I totally agree with you on not using the cases twice. It really is not worth the effort.

+Walter Bunning. As I wrote, I do not know those numbers either. And I would be happy if I motivated you to do some testing. I was taught to be precise and meticulous, and "load poisoning" by improperly cleaned cases (not only in the context of tumbling!) was one of the main principles in case handling (sizing lubricants, for instance, can really f### up the load). So we both believe in wet tumbling for the same reasons. Clean is good, shiny is better. Like in the Army. :-)

I believe that the old saying applies. "If you let it bother you so where it makes you think there is a difference. It probably does". I have seen rounds made on a Lee Loadmaster and shot from a Ransom rest and all of them shot through the same hole @ 25 yards also fired @50 yards and grouped into a 1 1/4 inch circle. I spent time hunched over my reloading bench and single made rounds for comparison and those shot the same. I was using a Rock River Bullseye pistol, The load was 3.8 grains of bullseye with an 180 gr cast led swc (H&G 63) and the brass for the loadmaster was Mixed range brass pickups, The single loadings were of same (TZZ 85) once fired brass. I believe that we can put unnecessary pressure subconsciously by spending too much time making our ammo. That can cause flyers and nervous jerked shots. That is what I have seen and believe. Granted, we should make the best quality ammo we can within reason. some guys like to spend all day on a box of ammo and that's fine. I'm a volume reloader as far as the pistol and make accurate consumable ammo for match shooting. Dave.

Thanks MCK!

Wet tumbling really is the way to go.

Thank you Dwight.

It only demands that pins be reused because you're too lazy to put the extra effort into priming "dirty" pockets. I've reloaded umpteen thousand cases and I reload .223 to .50 BMG. The only time a primer pocket needs significant attention of any kind is if its a crimped pocket in a military case. If tough-to-seat primers are an issue for you, let me give you some advice. Don't even think about shooting/loading .50 BMG in Lake City cases.

Yawn - aren't you just so impressive. If putting in extra struggle brings you happiness, have at it.

I have nothing against a Tesla, or a Dillon, but I have no desire currently to own either.

Thank you Mr. Dolfay. I've never had an interest in "dry" tumbling, if you will, but that sounds like an outstanding process for those that do.

@@KJV1611AV I think it's armor-all. I'm sure one is as good as another. A teaspoon of it is more than enough for 500 45 auto cases

That tumbler is still running strong for me. Be sure to check out "More Efficient Wet Tumbling". You can find it here: thereloadersnetwork.com/2018/05/15/wet-tumbling-brass-using-a-harbor-freight-rock-tumbler-and-stainless-steel-pins/

Thanks Frijoli. That definitely makes sense for rifle.

I don’t have a coupon code, but I’ve always just called him and he’s willing to work with you.

The first thing I bought from him was 1,000 once fired 30-06. You can bet I'm going to pick all that up. It's amazing how cheap and plentiful the 9mm is.

I've had 2 or 3 guys report to me that they use old primers, with good report. The pins will probably do a slightly better job cleaning out the corners of the primer pockets, but the differences will be minor. You might just try tumbling with no media. Use hot water and let it tumble for 30 mins-1 hour, and see what you think of those results.

I tried it the other day as an experiment and what happened was all the primers went back into the primer pockets most were so tight i had to run them through the die a second time to punch them out. So that was a failed experiment. I am finding out ways not to tumble. I have been using copper plated bb's and they are working pretty darn good. I dont know yet how long i can use them before the copper wears off though. It may be best in the long run to just use the ss rods. The bb's do try to get into the primer pockets but do not get packed in. On the down side of the bb's one fell into the box of brass that i still needed to resize and i broke the deprimer pin because the bb was in one of the casings. What was that about Murpys law?

Thanks for the comment PE J. I've been reloading for 15 years. I like the outside of the case to be clean so that it doesn't deposit any dirt or grime in my reloading dies or in the chamber of my firearm. Wet tumbling without the pins still cleans both the inside and outside of the case, it's just that the inside is not as polished or shiny. I understand your concern, but after extensive testing, I can assure you that there is absolutely no way for the residue left behind after wet tumbling without the stainless steel pins to cause any change in pressure whatsoever. I hope that helps.

That’s not good. There’s been more than once that life has gotten busy, and this thing has ended up running for a lot longer than 3 hours. It gets fairly warm to the touch, but nothing like you describe. I would guess that yours is somehow defective.

Loads of Bacon dang that's crazy. Yea it's warm to the touch within 10 min. That's what I was thinking because I've seen multiple people do the same thing as you. Idk I've just ran it for 30 min because I haven't felt like buying a new one. I guess I'll have to look into it

Try giving the HF customer service a call. I’ve had a couple small issues with their stuff in the past, and they ended up sending me some parts for free. It’s worth a try.

It's amazing how many different priming tools and methods exist. Do you ever have to clean out your sizing die? Curious if the dirty brass ever leaves gunk or residue behind.

I grab the brass off of concrete so they are never really that dirty. With the carbide LEE die I have never worried that much about it getting dirty inside or scratched. I am only doing this with pistol brass. I have a turret head with different calibers in it. I have cleaned it with alcohol and then Balistol so I don't get rust. So I might be doing just enough to keep it clean enough.

Sounds good. A lot of the brass I pick up at the range is sitting in dirt and mud.

Ladies Lingerie bag full of brass in the washing machine cleans brass from 'the great outdoors' pretty good. This can be the most dangerous method of cleaning brass if your wife is at home...

I kept reading that as "bag full of bras", and I was wondering how you were still married. I imagine this can be extremely dangerous.

I've tumbled thousands of cases this way, and I've never had a problem with it. A little bit of water can certainly cause a lot of damage. I have never had any moisture left, but I make sure my brass is dry. I suppose a little moisture could be left if you process the brass shortly after tumbling, but you'll be fine as long as you're not in a rush. A lot of people will dry their brass in some sort of dehydrator or oven - I believe many will do this at 130°-200°F.

Loads of Bacon 👍

That’s a fact

Thanks!

How does the magic eraser help? Thanks

Jose ACUNA rubs off some corrosion, not as aggressive as SS pins and easier to separate than lizard bedding...

Drew Diaz interesting, I wouldn’t of thought of that. Thanks

Jose ACUNA I don’t need spotless brass, again this is just how I do it.. as for time I turn it on, run some errands and some time later say- oh shit is that still on? A little dawn and maybe some of that citri stuff.

That's great Steve!

I love the 124 HBFP TP’s with 3g of titewad. Glad someone else likes them too!

I don't think you watched the whole video before commenting, because that's exactly what this video is about. I did a follow up video as well: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mgAcXMT9eZo.html