What’s the reason for Cat high tracks vs standard  

I’m a pharmacist in a city and will never use one of these. But I love these educational videos!

I've run both for many years. I'll take a high drive any day. When you shovel the mud with vegetation out of a flat bottom versus a high drive you'll understand what I mean. The high drives last longer for trackwear but they also cost more.

I remember having the dealer out of MN flying us to Peoria to tour the Cat plants. One thing that we were told as they were building a D10, 1979, was that they specifically stated they could get more horsepower to the ground with this high track design. The other thing I found amazing was that they assembled the D10 fully, ran it through a battery of tests, then disassembled it for shipping.

I've run many of both types. The high track offers 2 advantages, being up higher helps visibility , blade corners especially. 2 keeping the drive sprockets up higher clears debris by gravity and is less likely to pick up wire( straight or barbed) and other oil seal cutters that get wrapped up around the final drive. Part of this " up high" drives keeps water from entering the drives if the seals do get damaged.

Sure do appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge of equipment with us. Thank you.

As a long time dozer operator with a bad back, the most important thing to me is comfort. Those low track dozers beat the crap out of you compared to the high track Cats.

I just retired from Cat. When I joined the company in 1988, one of the Track Type Tractor project engineers, George Alexander was recalling the first customer they showed the high drive to. The customer was so excited that his final drive problems were going to be solved by the new design. You are right on just about everything you talked about. I'm not sure about the stability comments. It is so dependent on track width and what machine you are comparing it to. As far as underpowered versus overpowered, there is a magic weight to horsepower ratio of between 220 and 250 pounds per horsepower. Depending how it is configured Blade/winch/ripper/ tracks that ratio can make it feel like you are underpowered. If your track is slipping because there's too much horsepower, it may feel like you are doing more work when you are not. You are just wearing out the track.

The dirt and debris has a chance to fall away from the drive sprocket minimizing tooth and chain wear

I've run both over the years and had more time on low track machines as that's all they pretty much had at the mine and ash landfill. So I might be more biased towards them, but overall the low track machines are more of what I'd choose. I worked on 2:1 and steeper slopes a lot so the rollover risk was always there. Like you said, you could definitely see the high side pads in the air even on a D6K which is a low track model. The only thing holding you in place was the windrow at times. The high track machines have their place and traction seemed to be one of them. Taking a little longer to get stuck too is another. Learn to run what you can though. The more experience the better.

So in my experience it has always been about traction. After running both flat track and hi track you can get a flat track into anything but can’t get it back out. When you are pushing your track is pulled tight on the ground with all the rail slack on top between your final and your idler. When you reverse all of that goes loose on the bottom of your track frame. Now the top side is tight. With all of the slack under your machine the track pads won’t grip the ground and let’s you slip in reverse where it never would going forward. Where with the hi teach the ground side of the track is always tight because it’s pulling between an idler and the final without bunching on the ground.

I live in the Peoria, IL area. The home of CAT. Back in the 80s my neighbor, a CAT engineer, was assigned to the CAT's High Drive initiative for the D9. The main reason for moving the drive sprocket was to reduce wear and damage to the unit. There were problems with track supplied by a company in Italy and my neighbor made several trips to Italy resolve the issues.

The Cat high track system came out on the first D10 Cat tractors. There was the idea of a high horsepower tractor breaking bull gears with the amount of power the things made. But another reason was getting the seals and sprockets of the final drive out of the mud. The high track final drive is above a lot of the mud and "stobs" banging on the oil seals and since the D10 was designed for heavy work in quarries and open pit mines to move a lot of heavy material quickly the idea made a lot of sense. Before the D10, Cat tried to slave two D9's together. One configuration was a push/pull with a large high blade. The other configuration was a side by side that pushed a wide blade to move a lot of light material. Both solutions were clumsy and hard to operate. (The King Ranch in South Texas did use a D9SXS - side by side - to quickly clear brushland to improve pasture grasslands, or to cut pipeline right of ways.) The D10 was developed because of the demand for a large tractor and because other manufacturers were developing tractors of comparable size and weight of the D10 at the time. I first saw a D10 at a demonstration in Corpus Christi Texas when the local Cat dealer created a berm that concealed the D10 from view. Three Cat excavators began the show by walking over the berm, spinning around as they walked, demonstrating their stability. When they moved onto the flat, and were out of the way, The D10 pushed through the berm. It was impressive. Especially considering how large the D10 was compared to the D9 that followed it through the cut. I do enjoy your videos. Thanks for the hard work.

I have been operating heavy equipment for 48 years, since I was 15. The visibility off the Cat high track is so sweet we could actually grade off gravel on US Highway jobs to the same degree as a road grader. And back in the day I actually was finish grade on a grader using the old style whisker stakes. Never had a problem on a slope, it feels like it is unstable but the majority of the weight is lower in the unit. I will choose a high track any day of the week!

Thanks so much Clint. Like so many others, I appreciate your time and effort to help us understand more about the why and how of equipment operation and engineering. Always look forward to seeing a new video from C&C Equipment!!

The high track was initially a joint project with komatsu. I've seen pictures of their pro-type they had at the time. One additional advantage of the high track was it got the final drive out of the soup if you were prone to working in that environment so it did help some on maintaining cost although like you said it did end up placing and additional idle down in the soup which would eventually get it seals pushed out by mud and dry and take out those seals and bearings but idler as Cat would point out are way cheaper than final drives. Komatsu in the end decided that the benefits and gins didn't put weigh the extra component cost and with some design ch he's they made at the time went another direction. They gambled on lot of their dozers being used for push cats on scrapers or pulling large pans or even pulling cable plows for fiber optic. In those environment the high track and it's added maintenance was not optimal. However the mines and a few other places they proved to be better. (I used to work for both Komatsu and Cat before 2001.) It doesn't make me an expert but I have seen my fair share of undercarriage work in last several decades

Thanks for answering a question that has been on my mind. By the way, you described the planetary gear system perfectly. The description you painted in my mind matched the picture you posted in the video

I’ve owned, maintained, and run both. Give me a standard set up all day every day! The FEW advantages of the high drive are totally outweighed by the disadvantages.

It's good to hear the Pros and Cons of these drive systems. Thanks Clint.

Thanks I’ve run older style D-7’s and 8’s in the Army Reserve and always wondered about the high track

Learn something new every time I watch one of your videos. thanks for the information and education. 👍

Interesting discussion, thanks for that. My expectation is that there would be more trouble with the sprocket aspect since there is so much less degrees of wrap like about 120 degrees vs 180 degrees.

You are exactly right about increasing final drive life. I always was told that inept operators were a major cause of failure, when instead of lowering the moldboard and pushing, they would ram an object at high speed.

Thanks for another great video, especially explaining something many of us have wondered about, and ran. I agree, they are less stable on slopes for sure, and we were told the high track improved turning, but I'm still not convinced. On hard ground I think they ride somewhat worse, not that any do great! LOL 👍

I really hope your son takes full advantage of the knowledge you give and the practical experience he can get from you, just incase he might need it some time in the future thank you Clint more knowledge better life.

Great explanation Clint, love your videos, think positive test negative . 🇨🇦

Thanks for explaining that to me I remember seeing the high tracks come out in the 80's but never known why.i heard better on slops don't know anything about them never operated a doser .but always look at them and wish I could .I'll put it on my bucket list.😁keep up the great work and video's 👍👌😎✌️🇺🇲

Yet another technology with so much detail most folks will never even think about. Thanks for letting us get a glimpse into your world!

Also moving the operator station toward center. Balanced ride. Everything stacks in the center in a modular way. Also, backs up a slope better as the track protrudes out past the rear.

I am new to owning and operating equipment. Thanks for the info. I have had my ups and downs for sure. My low point was when I laid my dozer over on it's side. I did not get hurt wear your seat belts! Dozer was not hurt. Thank god I have a friend with a D 6 and could get to my location and flip the D 3c over. I ended up having him cut my house pad with his d 6 and he ended up having to bring his excavator over to finish.

Enjoyed hearing the pros & cons. We had a D4 high track with LGP tracks and loved it more than our D5 straight tracks. We were in mud a lot and the high track was so much easier to clean out & service and the LGP tracks enabled us to work in places regular tracks would fall through but the D4 would out push the D5 on flat, level ground. It's a trade out with devoted fans of each type but I'd rather have a high track hands down.

Been so long since RU-vid taught me something. Thanks brother. Very informative. I never even thought about it until today.

Thanks for sharing and comparing Clint, hope your son gets more vocal in your videos, so great your family works together!!

I’ve actually wondered this before. Thanks for sharing. Everything is a give and take. It stands to reason they tried that on the bigger tractors that experience more stress in general. I’m guessing the weak link was the main drive sprocket in certain situations. It’s incredible how much engineering and trial and error has went into these machines. 🤩💪👍❤️🇺🇸

Thank You for explaining this. Cost v benefit is a constant struggle.

Not being an official equipment guy, this is something I've always wondered. Thanks

Back in the 90's i had a job working with a crew installing fiber optic lines. They had a D4 high track which I was using for backfilling. I liked the elevated view you got and it seemed to do better in the this weeds and brush.

thank you for making this, ive actually always wondered about this.

Hi from uk guys👍👋 thanks for this information advice side always good to know for people like myself great to understand from a professional side never knew they had planetary system 👍 thanks for time explaining this man be safe and see you soon👍👋

I have always wondered why, thanks for the video.

I spent several years running a D6R and D6T. They are great machines. The differential steer was a great design that let you keep power to both tracks in a turn. I felt like the tourque converter type transmission put more power to the ground and had less issues than the hydrostatic trans in the john deere.but i only have limited experience with one 850j that had a lot of problems.And the high tracks were much easier to shovel out than the flat tracks.

Professor Clint, excellent presentation in dozer studies.

Thanks for giving your informed information on this topic, been digging around and there seems to be so many different opinions globally.

Keep them coming we enjoy thanks

Your exactly right on the reason why they also claim it causes more surface contact on the tracks if the drive gear is on the bottom it would be a little shorter at least that’s what I’ve read great explanation buddy thanks for sharing

Very nice-looking yard there, sir! Always great to have an organized, clean area for equipment and daily movements! Thanks! Best 2U!

Very informative, Clint. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the information. I have often wondered why.....now I know. Best wishes.

THANKS for the educational video, I really appreciate you doing videos

I always thought it was for better ground clearance between the ground and the belly, the reason for the high track. Probably several reasons for that design. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the breakdown of difference. Who cares what folks prefer. Depends on their use and needs.

Thank's Clint I love my Dozer's I just lurned more about the reason I know the high Trac is easier to clean 👍

those reduction hubs are awesome , though you will have less travel speed you will have a greater amount of torque , it makes it easier on the transmission , clutch and drive train gear . i think in the conventional way the reduction hub wouldnt work well so that to me is another reason to make it a high drive , it also gives more ground clearance

A great little video, thanks for the information Clint .

Thanks Clint for the information

Hi all, i used to repair Cat tractors of both track design and i can say that when the HI-Drive system came in it made maintenance expensive. Track wear increased rapidly particularly on the smaller machines, ie D6, D7 etc.with the adjustment Cannon snapping in half due to a stretched chain. The bigger machines gave problems like endless trunnion cap bolts breaking off at the back idler and increased sprocket segment wear but the biggest issue was with D9 D10 etc just being too heavy and getting stuck in soft ground something we never had with D9H OR G Tractors with flat tracks.

Wondered why - now it makes sense. Thanks.

I have operated a D6T in snow and the high track got around better than a straight track did. It pushed snow well also, I haven't done a lot of dirt work though. So I have no comparison. Thanks for explanation

Thanks for sharing this information Clint enjoyed watching this video 🇺🇲

Yes you did answer my questions on why a "high track".

I been going by y’all’s place for years lol I watched y’all move in actually👍 we have a lake house up the road on lake lemon, so I go by a lot in the summer, i run dozers and excavators for a company in my home town north Vernon, ya did a great job explaining that 👌👍👍 best of luck this season guys 👊

I was working for a Cat dealer in the 80s. For what it's worth; When the D10 was first released it was the first high drive.

Thanks for taking a few minutes to explain why along with pros and cons.

They did make a D4H for a while too, nice “lil” dozer… good visibility but slope dozing was a bit sketch 😬

Very cool to read comments and get a glimpse into a realm i know little about. Thanks. Learned more about this kind of equipment in the last 15 mins than the 1st 61 years of my life. And at least begin to grasp what a planetary gear does.

Thank you Clint. I had heard many different ideas of why they do this. Thank you for sharing what you know.

The older cat dozers were very primitive. The track Frame was mounted to the final drive and the life of the finals was very short due at the shock load. The high drive was their way of isolating the finals. On a John Deere the finals are isolated from the track frame so even though it's a low track you get long life from the finals. I worked many years in a Deere dealership and have seen 850 dozers go incredble numbers of hours on the power train without overhaul.

Thanks for the info Clint.

Thanks Clint. As a dozer want to own guy I am always wondering why things were done a certain way.

Thank you so much for explaining.

Thanks for the explanation, Clint.

Cool! Thanks for that explanation!

Thanks, answered my questions!

International Harvestor was actually one of the first to use planetary final drives and modular design, on their TD-20 E dozers. Later on Komatsu bought out Dresser to copy that original final drive/track piviot that IH had pioneered. They incorporated that design into their EX and PX dozer line. Also lets give Euclid/Texex some credit as they had planetary finals way back then.

Thanks Clinton, The sharing of information is good but you know what's great? Your sons want to hang out with Dad and that says a lot!

nice video. Cant say for myself about the oval undercarriage lasting longer than high drive. i have a cat d9 on over 100 acres ive had it for about 2 years and ever since ive made a lot of friends who have operated bulldozers for years and decades. they have given me a lot of guidance and knowledge about bulldozers and bulldozing. just from their experience oval undercarriage has needed replacing more than high drive and its probably the fact that the final drive is receiving more shock loads from the ground. like i said cant speak from personal experience even though i have operated a handful of dozers ever since i bought my d9..

Cheers I'd always wondered, great vid .

I'm pretty sure that Cat engineers didn't go this way lightly. They are, and always have been the world's leader in this stuff for a reason. I don't trust bean counters, but I do respect engineers. Big Red uses a high drive setup on all 4 corners of their big farm tractors as well. To me, the increased visibility and keeping the drive unit cleaner by getting it out of the crap below are huge pluses. My old uncle spent his entire working life as a mechanic on heavy equipment. I asked him at an auction why the Cat stuff brought so much more money. He said it was simple. They are worth it.

Thanks Clint great explanation and video I learned something today…lol…

Thank you for explaining this gear run drive You by all the years of having to take these apart, are the expert. I noticed on a lot of Logging shovels ( The Loggers call all there log loading excavator SHOVELS) loggers have TERMS for there machines that are different, it's really today a modified Excavator in my Humble opinion, They raised the track area were it runs over the mid top of tracks, my guess is to run all the brush/ tree limbs off. Speaking of working on side inclines, the Case/ Drott excavator back when the two companies made the same excavator, just a few options that different like GMC & Chevy pick ups, made the Hydraulic cylinder to level car body ( house ) straight. Digging on side slope, the 30 year Engineer from Case explained to me at Con- Expo in Vegas, as we looked at there history pictures at booth, the pro and con, linkage getting sloppy on cylinders having a house that did not stay straight. The con on that level type of set up. It was a great idea for NEW tight pins, after heavy use it was real loss. I notice on the rebranding of CATS new small Dozer line up. They renumber all there small dozer's. They went back to straight drive tracks, are they better now. On gears. Did not know about the top heavy issues Don't drive those high tracks on slope, so what I hear from you the expert gives me feedback, on issues. Thank you again for the explanation on the high track system that CAT built, to keep longevity into that important Drive sprocket.

Makes sense to me. Thanks for explanation

That was good to know. thanks for the info.

Very nice educational video Even though I don't drive one but I like listening to stuff like this and I love big machines not that it's a big machine but I like your videos it doesn't matter what you talk about your videos are pretty good.

When I was in school we discussed an advantage of the high track was when it need to get pulled from the deep mud it was easier to pull the sun gear when it wasn't buried as far

I was always told the standard track was better for the usual work and more stable on slopes and I high track was more for flat ground rough terrain heavy pushing. So we always had them out where it was rocky or in or scrap yard and dump or where we hit lots of stumps. If it wasn't a rough job we almost always had standard tracks. This was just what I was told. I'm a trackhoe/ wheel loader track loader operator. Only run a dozer a handful of times so I could have been told wrong

Nice explanation ,thanks. As always “great video “.

Thanks again Clint .

Thanks for the explanation. Wondered why the two styles & now I know. Not that me as a retired fishing tackle shop owner needs to know. 😁

Also notice the track extends out the back of the dozer, you can't do that with a low track. This makes the track on the ground much longer making lower ground pressure and improving traction. In my opinion High tracks are better in every way.

My feelings exactly. Those have been my identical experiences.

Learned something else, which made this interesting. Thanks

Thanks Clint. I always wanted to ask that question on other channels, but didn't want to sound stupid haha. Always interested in equipment but never operated myself. So this education is awesome.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. Greatly appreciated. Has anyone asked what difference between steel and rubber tracks. You touched on this a little bit on one of your auction videos.

i love the high track in logging ,,,the 5 was ok but the 527 ..thing would go any where great on steep ground

Thank you for the explanation.

Spent many years on a low track 6 and a high track 4 and 5 logging in CA. I never noticed any difference on side hill gouging. The high tracks were a lot more treacherous getting on and off of but otherwise I preferred them. Visibility and maintenance access were both superior in the high tracks but the greatest advantage was level ground skidding with a heavy load but especially adverse skidding with any size load. The TSKs and 517/527 all moved the drive sprocket essentially to the middle of the track. So instead of the sprocket down low at the very back trying to push the track up and over and digging a hole in the dirt, you had the sprocket pulling from the middle of the machine. The difference it made in uphill skidding was phenomenal. I could easily pull more with a D4H TSK uphill than a D6C any day and with far less stress on the machine. And the D5H was better still. The 527 with the D6 undercarriage was a beautiful beast.

Thx Clinton for sharing!

Hi, C&C Equipment. A good video. Thank you for posting it. You have listed a lot of the pros and the cons of each track system in a manner that is easy to understand. Good stuff. That said though, I think you did miss a couple of advantages of the hi-sprocket design over the standard or oval track system: 1. The contact between the sprocket teeth and the track bushes is largely up out of the dirt which helps to reduce wear. 2. The hi-sprocket track frames seem to collect dirt and mud less readily than the oval track machines and are usually easier to clean out when they do collect it. On the stability issue, I would agree with you, especially about the fore-n-aft stability for climbing or descending steep slopes. I once took an angle blade, bob-tailed D9G up an 8-foot vertical wall - at night. I would NOT attempt it with any hi-sprocket drive tractor. On side slopes, as I understand it, part of the U.S. Army's requirements for side slope stability is that the machine MUST be able to stand on a 45 degree side slope. I personally have had a D9N on a MEASURED 43 degree slope TWICE, with NO indication that it was about to lift the high side track. On the bigger Cat machines where the front and rear idlers are incorporated into the front and rear track roller bogies, I do think that they ride a little smoother in rough going than the earlier machines. How-wevver, they do have a tendency to 'catapult' the operator out of the seat if a bump is travelled over too fast, especially travelling forward, much like a tailseat small crawler will 'launch' the operator when going too fast over a bump travelling forward. Just my 0.02. Thanks again. You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

I worked at Link Belt Bearing in Clinton Tn . They announced the Cat Sleeve Project in the early 80"s. They added on to the plant and Put in new turning machines ,heat treat furnaces and grinding machines if we voted against a labor union. So we did , i bid on a job in heat treating and worked on heat treating the Cat sleeves. about a year or so the Japanese under priced us cheaper than we could by the raw material. Also Cat claimed another advantage of the high drive ,that the operator could tighten its tracks from the operators seat instead of stopping and using a grease gun.

Thanks Clint!

Thank you for breaking that down!