I know nothing about mixing, I’m more of a creator but I also have all the SSL controller business and it is quite amazing how mixing blind can be fun, revealing and satisfying.
I'm the mix engineer that mixed Deee-Lite's Groove Is In The Heart. I would love to hear that remix with every note of the bass flying around immersive...LOL
That was probably the most enjoyable episode I’ve seen/listened to thus far. Mastering: that’s pretty much exactly what I’ve been saying for a while. Mastering is about optimisation. Therefore, it should be subtle and transparent and hardly ever transformative. And to dovetail about “how to master for albums”, this actually goes into a bit of my own mastering workflow. So I use Wavelab for mastering (separate program makes the point that I am about mastering, not continuing to mix). All my mixdowns are in an Audio Montage and it’s much easier to focus on processing when you are dealing with clips than it is inside the track’s tracking session file. What some may do as “stereo bus processing”, I just process the clips. Then there’s the processing that’s shared across the entire album and that’s more often than not: EQ, maybe some kind of compressor (very very subtle) and a limiter. That alone can help ensure a sonic cohesion within the album. And yeah, don’t “worry about the numbers”. Deliberate contrasts, especially in the macro dynamics, are what makes the great albums. I can name a number of albums that best showcase it. Atmos. I am actually quite excited about its future potential of being another way to experience music. It has the best shot of being more widespread because of headphone compatibility. And yeah, the best mixes showcase its possibilities and can make for an enjoyable listening experience. My own music lends itself to that realm and I love the idea of being “bathed” in sound. And Ed … you’ve made peace with your earlier mixes of course =]. Sometimes you have to fuck up before you can be great. And this was not even the worst fuck up. At any rate, enjoyable as always =]
The fact that Apple Music only playlists Atmos mixes shows me how the industry shoves it into our throats. Ah wel we are seen as consumers, some lower lifeform that only can be upgraded with technological advancements😢 I love a engineer who doesn’t care about the loudness level as long as it’s not crushing, it’s all about feel. Exactly, if it works and it sounds good do it👌🏼 About mixing with the SSL controllers I can totally agree how well it works for not watching the screen. I work on an analog desk and many times my monitor goes black in standby. Mixing with a mouse is so annoying imo. 43:57 I totally agree, your getting a better engineer when you stop changing the mix, same as changing the recording. I want the sound of a band, their feel and energy that’s why I go watch them playing live or visit them in their rehearsal room. I saw an interview with a recording engineer in his studio and he was asked why he didn’t had any amps, he replied that he wanted the sound of the band and recorded the amps they use. But what if it’s a crapy amp or instrument? He said then I gonna record that crapy sound, it’s the sound of the band which I register. I found it a brilliant approach and a very honest one too. Okay I’m one hour in the podcast, very interesting topics. I’m going to do some work and listen the rest later 😊 Thanks Guys 🤘🏼
@@WorkingAudioTools Yeah, I really enjoy listening to the podcast, always interesting stuff. Yesterday I was thinking hmmm no new podcast, then I realized it was Friday 🫣
It's crazy how well personalities can correlate with trade and opinions because everything just piled up on how well I agreed. Ignoring numbers and focusing on feel, and that stuff, and the technical accuracy, then even the important detail of the Hammond organ. I'm a hammond fanatic. I'm really a guitarist but have worked hard to fake being a hammond player (UAD Waterfal B3 is my most irreplaceable piece of software). There's a much greater chance I will agree with what a mixer/mastering engineer says when he is also a Hammond man. Brian Auger is, of course, a Hammond man as well. I recommend the recent Doctor Mix video where he visits him and watches him play. It was super similar to when I heard Michael Brauer said he had been a serious bike racer, like me. It's almost a given fact that I will agree with every subjective aspect he shows opinions on.
Thanks mates informative and entertaining I have a question what speakers system you suggest to start producing and mixing in atmos that don’t break the bank and give a right vision of what you are doing ? Thanks a lot
Is there a mix competition I didn’t know about? Poor Ed, saw his heart breaking. Hey Ed one of my favourite mixes from Staub is -8db reduction on the mixbus. Do you! It’s your journey. I think Mark was right though, very strange mix. Client gotta be happy though
I just listened to the podcast on spotify and with new gpt4 omni released with capability of reading emotions and it runs on a mobile phone. I'm sure we will have an AI tool or DAW that is fully AI operated and those mixes will sound good at least for the average person. Edit: people will still have a choise to work with and pay a human engineer but this will make a good sounding mix available for an average musician.
I can't see it personally due to computational requirements. The CPU needed for a trained AI to mix a song would be massive. Ozone can't even properly identify a rock mix from a jazz mix 🤣 Id say we are at least a decade away from AI being able to solely organise, edit, mix and master an entire song, and that's just it it's simplest form, never mind a really good mix
Is this a Pro Mix academy mix? I feel like you did a great job Ed. The only changes I'd have made were taste related. You made it massive - particularly with the low end extension of the kick and bass - and wide. Sort of big pop. I'd have probably gone for a tighter and punchier more focused mix that is lighter on its feet. Having the kick and bass a living a little higher up would have been a bit more danceable and forward-pushing. When we make things huge and bassy (even if the bass is well managed, which here it certainly was) it can make things appear to be slower and heavier. Perhaps a bit of slower compression settings on the mix buss as well - ideally a bit of mix buss compression and some vari mu glue (like a manley for example - just my taste with this one) would have really helped it fit into the pocket. I have not listened to the MEs feedback here but thats my takeaway. Your mix sounds impressive - but at a certain point, once we learn how to make things sound impressive, big, and Hifi - its more about making the decisions that will help the song live in the space its supposed to. Thats the more nuanced (and difficult) part of all of this, in my opinion.
On reflection I think we all agree with Mark and James feedback. What it needed was less glue and more dynamics but it acts as a great reflection point to why we aren't using 2 bus compression any more
At the end of the day, mastering is fixing the mix and is always fraught with difficulties. The mix engineer has all the marbles. If they do their job correctly, they are mastering their work. For my projects, I mix with mastering tools in place but typically bypass them while mixing, referring to that ‘finished’ sound and making mix changes as a result. When I’m ‘done’ (ha-ha) I will print a number of versions, with and without final levels. What I call mastering is part of my mix. As I retain the complete mix session, I have everything I need to make minor changes. I don’t send my work to another mastering engineer.
It was technically impressive, in my opinion... But I kind of agree with the criticisms.... Like it would have been a great mix for a pop song.. It was like mixing More of a timeless throwback as if it was a modern top 50 Spotify pop song.
Ed's mix was really good. On my LCD-X's it sounded amazing. However, when I listened on my Ex Machina's I could hear a little bit of what the Present Day guys were saying on a couple of things, although I feel their critique was overly harsh. From what I heard there was a little bit too much crunchy distortion on the mix bus and the horn solo could have been pushed up in the mix. I'm guessing the distortion we're hearing is coming from the O-zone exciter module. Nothing else stood out as an issue.
@@WorkingAudioTools I have the mk 2 Pulsars. I'm really happy with them. The only downside is the latency while producing. Also, I'm surrounded by air gapped bass traps. My room has somewhat weird dimensions but it's a decent size and I'm getting the same bass response as my headphones. The subs below 40hz though I'm needing to check on my headphones just to be sure.
Talking of "rules" for Atmos .. haven't the industry standards for stereo only come about over time as just "safe" options so that people won't be criticised for their choices? Then they are taught as rules / standards in order that people fit in .. There will be standards to play it safe (what an average feels works) but I'd hope less so with Atmos as there is probably less reason for them than when used for strep and it's cramming of a soundstage into two speakers...
Dunno, I think some subjectively bad atmos mixes could have been saved or improved with a few standardisations. There a lot of big songs which have been poorly represented cause they don't undetstand what makes the format such an improvement over the stereo mix
@@WorkingAudioTools I would see those as two separate points. People may well not grasp what good experiences can be created with atmos but over time they'll hear more and more and get some good ideas. It's new and there's not yet a culture of expectation to comply with.. it's the most creative time. With the first point, there is nothing wrong with creating something that only pleases a minority of people.. production/mixing standards can re-enforce the sense of blandness when the music is not to personal taste either - it all becomes meh and like a mass production run of something. I guess the problems come when people are *forced* to make an atmos mix by platforms when they don't want to . In that case there is no vision at all, in bad taste or good taste - the lack of vision or care is probably what you're hearing in those subjectively bad mixes, not a difference in taste. In that scenario, a standard formula would help ... but it's not addressing the cause of the problem. the platform. I think, if I were an artist and didn't want an atmos mix, digging my heals in, angry at feeling forced by Apple's corporate greed imposing itself of my old-school vinyl/cassette vision - all those "atmos is corporate greed vids" whipping up my ire - I might insist on the worst, most cheesy atmos mix ever just to claim it's shit! Haha ... And accidently making an Atmos cult classic!
I find atmos intriguing because of the reception I've had so far in my room. I've got a very good apple music playlist showcasing mixes that I feel work well in certain aspects and others that don't (in my opinion) I've had 5 people in so far and even at the weekend I had 2 musicians in (very skeptical about it) and both admitted after 45 mins of listening to my playlist that you can't go back to stereo when you've heard the atmos (if it's done well). Stereo is so underwhelming in comparison. Proper vinyl guys who are pretty old school. Started with rocket man and they were both amazed at how they've never heard it like that. Moved to thriller and it blew their minds. Said they couldnt stop talking about it. Played bohemian rhapsody and they both agreed that it was over done and didn't make sense. Can't match the stereo. Then switched to because by the beatles and the vocals left them with that big smile I got the first time I listened to it. It's how we all kinda hear that song and to be able to hear them all in so much detail is any beatles fans wet dream. Agreed with me so much in my observations that the entire project is gonna be done in atmos now. As soon as they heard the possibilities in my room and how I heard atmos they both automatically insisted that I do the project in atmos cause they trust my judgement so much. I've never seen such excitement in music from old school muso's. I'm still to have somebody that walks away thinking that atmos is a lot of shite. It's an experience, one that really opens up the senses.. As long as its done tastefully and that's where it's so difficult. There are some mixes you just know will work but just don't deliver due to the mixer. Its kind of a fine art actually being able to make a song sound in a way that makes faithful fans smile from ear to ear and become emotional. Ive only had 1 person cry in the atmos room so far haha
@@WorkingAudioTools That's great and encouraging too. Only the other day I cringed when the producer who works with Taylor Swift repeated the old "We've only got two ears" thing (on the TapeNotes podcast). Despite my pontificating, I am VERY excited by the format personally for the same reasons. I can see a need for good work to be out there to propel it forward like you show with your personal experience.. but it's always going to depend on what people want with their own work. There will be many people who hear tasteful atmos mixes and then this is what they strive for .. but there will be others who want something other-worldly and risky. Room for both and all variations in between. Just make sure you demo the tasteful ones first .. .then slowly go leftfield and marmite-y to show they can have imagination too (but that their ideas might sound shit! haha).
