I learned a lot from submitting my last novel. The story there didn’t compress well into a query, nor did the opening pages reflect what the query promised. I’ve since changed my writing process so that (hopefully) the story works at all levels, from blurb to query to sample pages to finished manuscript, backwards and forwards-and trying to write a great book at the same time. Great insights about literary/upmarket, and about dropping prologues, too. Thanks!
So, you don't normally read the sample pages even when you love the query? FASCINATING!!! I wonder if that's fairly standard among agents? Shows how wildly important the query is. Also, I'm grateful that asking for sample pages w/the query has replaced the "middle step" of requesting a partial. As a writer, I'd rather get a pass or a full request. ;-)
I feel like requesting partials is alive and well out there. Most querying authors I know still get partial requests and they are much more abundant than fulls. It probably depends on the agent.
@@maurinet2291 Interesting. I've rarely seen them over my past three queried books. Lots of full requests, but no partial requests. Might depend on the genre as well.
I've had over 16 beta readers over the last three years and many different first pages and they liked them all. So it was hard to choose. Then went to critique match and hired two different agent/editors for the first 10 k and got good feedback but each one wanted me to start in a different place. So I finally went with what I like and if I find an agent then I know we will get along since we think alike, lol.
Crap, didn't realize how little the sample pages matter. Now I have even less idea as to what does or doesn't work. idk, I sometimes wonder if I should spend more time on the query than the book given the outsize influence of the query.
I guess the point is, the query should reflect the book, thus a strong book = a strong query. Thing is I no longer think it's quality per se - of course it must meet certain professional standards but after a certain point, it's all subjective. How do you compare Dan Brown with JK Rowling? At some point it's taste and the story works and there's nothing wrong with it. I'm beginning to believe what agents are looking for are stakes - emotional, WOW factor stakes and how you deliver them. Assuming a certain level of writing, anything can be written well, so the thing that's lacking then can only be the stakes. If the make-up of your story doesn't work those emotional stakes to the maximum, then it may work as a story, everything may happen exactly as it should, and it may be written well, but fish and chips are still just fish and chips - it isn't gonna compare with the Angus beef steak. There's nothing wrong with fish and chips and certainly I'm not suggesting throw in BBQ sauce in your fish and chips, it wouldn't work, but what works within the spectrum of your story remains to be bland because the whole product - the make up of the story - isn't thrilling enough. Not published, just a writer musing.
@@cccrsc It's more the revelation that 99% of the time the writing doesn't even matter because an agent isn't even getting that far (ie, to the sample pages). That's just massively demoralizing. At that point, it doesn't really matter how well you write -- your prose can be there with the best -- or how great of a storyteller you are, because everything comes down to the pitch which is a completely different skill (and not necessarily one that will help you succeed on bookshelves anyway because publishers often have somebody on their staff write the blurb). Instead of spending 99% of the time on writing, editing, revising the book, it kinda feels like it should be a 50/50 split between the time & effort spent on the pitch vs the book. And instead of going through multiple critiques and betas on the book, those might be better used on the pitch. I had been under the impression that agents glanced at the sample pages anyway just to see how the writing was, which could make up for maybe not hooking them on the query. This is a bit of a gut punch.
@@1ktales I agree with everything you say. However, do bear in mind this is simply how TWO agents at the SAME agency work. That's a far cry from saying "most" agents work like that. (Also, these two are colleagues. There's gotta be an element of professional agreement when you 1. Work together and 2. Decided to do a RU-vid channel together, so it shouldn't be surprising they may work similarly. You also get agents who don't bother with the query and go straight for the sample pages. I've long been a believer of: if you don't like how an agent works, don't query them. Find the right fit for YOU. This video only tells you what Jessica and James do. It simply cannot be generalised to say most agents do similarly. Sidenote: queries aren't so bad to write once you know what elements to include. If you can break down your novel into beats to check the structure, you can probably write a decent query.
@@1ktales Pitching and querying is a separate skill indeed, and one that’s worth developing. It shouldn’t take away from the effort you put into your book, rather it should develop alongside your book.
I find it a touch discouraging too - especially the part about not even reading the sample pages very often! I'm rubbish at "selling myself" so my query letter might not be zingy and exciting however hard I try.
OK, newbie novelist here. Thank you for your excellent series of RU-vid videos. They are teaching me a lot. But I have a couple of (possibly dumb) questions regarding this video. First, I am thinking of your video on query letters. There, you suggest a bookstore browsing comparison: looking first at genre, thickness (word count) and title. I do this all the time when I inspect a potential book purchase. But I also browse the front matter. If there is a Dramatis Personae, and a Table of Contents that has chapter titles, these also help give me an idea of what the book is about. So, if a book has front matter that conveys relevant information, such as character names with teaser descriptions, and a Table of Contents with story-relevant chapter titles, would you want to see this in addition to the first pages of text? My second question regards whether the sample pages should be the first pages of the Prologue, or of the first chapter. I'd like some clarification for the below situation. I have a quite lengthy Prologue. It tells its own story and is an introduction for the main story, which is all flashback. The prologue is linked with six "intermission" flash-forwards that are placed between each act of the book. The prologue and flash-forwards have their own story-line. (The story-lines merge in the Epilogue.) Because of the Prologue rationale for the story being presented, the two story-lines have different "flavors" (the Prologue and flash-forwards are somewhat "darker" and more desperate in tone). So: in a case like this, would you like to see, say, two-to-three pages of Prologue and two-to-three pages of Chapter One? Thank you for your clarification on these questions.
I’m not a writer however I am a reader and a buyer of a lot of books. I started watching your channel after it started showing up for some reason in my recommends and have found it fascinating, however I’ve noticed a lot of hostility toward prologues. I find it kind of odd because I don’t mind prologues and sometimes really like them.
Those are the prologues that make the final cut though. Most prologues in early drafts are hot garbage (speaking as a writer who has made the mistake of doing an unnecessary prologue)
Thank you very much for your advice in this video. You're very informative. What happens when an agent says they love your book but don't know how to editorially champion it? What does this near-miss mean from a full?
I'm curious how many clients can the average agent juggle. With all the querying, edits, submissions, negotiations, and such that you do, when do you guys sleep?? What do you do if your client's debut book sells badly? I've heard of authors having to change their writing name because of a bad sales reputation. Is this true? How does an author recover? Thanks for making the process clear and understandable! 🙂
The agent is proxy for our target audience - I think authors often forget there *is* an audience, with tastes. I do actually 'sample' books I take off the bookshop's shelf: after a quick look at the blurb, I open the book in a couple of places to see if I like the energy of the writing.
Thanks for the video, I always enjoy your content! How flexible should we be with the number of sample pages we submit? For example, if an agent requests the first 5 pages, should we submit the first 8 pages if that's where the chapter ends, or just stick to what they requested, even if page 5 ends mid sentence? Also, as a ballpark estimate, what percentage of agents would you say read the sample pages, vs. those who just read them if they're on the fence? Thanks!
I think the no1 thing agents look for is a Degree or MFA or Masters in some aspect of writing. Is this true? I think you're 95% over the line if you have an expensive education. That's what a few agents have told me.
NB: I am in the initial revision of the first draft stage, too early to query. In the video, you cautiously advise against including prologues in queries. I'm an Own Voices author and decided that to tell the story I am writing, I need to use a few times a slur that has been directed at me many times throughout my life. The character isn't a self-insert but I draw heavily on my life experiences for the story. It's not a word I'm comfortable using and so am planning on including an author's note explaining why I feel I need to use the slur. 1. Is that a bad idea? 2. If so, how do I handle the issue?
The entire process with literary agents seems so arbitrary. Why can't agents come together and agree to a universal, query & 1st 5 for all submissions? Or query and synopsis for all submissions? You guys tell us (writers) to look at our book as a business. Fine, great. How about adopting universal SOPs for all submissions like a business?
Even worse than that is how the entire industry is completely subjective. The quality of a query doesn't really matter all that much, it's things about agents' preferences and what else they have going on at the time that are completely out of your control.
@@jflsdknf It seems none of it is guided by market data or anything concrete, as much as hunches and whims. That seems like a hell of a way to run not only a business but an entire industry. That's not a knock on agents. They're acting as gatekeepers which is more than they should have to be.
Since the agent mentioned she's more into saleability of book before even reading a single passage, I'll go and search her saleable subjectivity and see how many best selling authors she represents....
So you ask the author to go to the trouble of submitting sample pages with the query but then don't read them most of the time (less than 5%)?!? Why not instead get back to the querier for sample pages only if you find the query letter interesting, thereby saving the author some work?
As we mentioned, we use the sample pages to help us make decisions when we're unsure. As your sample pages should already be written, all you'd do is copy and paste. If we had to request sample pages, the querying process would be even longer.
At one point you say you aren't interested if it's not something 'new'. Firstly, why does everything have to be totally new and unique. What's wrong with a book that is super enjoyable, engaging and extremely well written? It's the same with people always insisting that books and TV shows have a 'twist'. But then you go on a few minutes later to demand that the book's 'tone' match the market. So you want the book to be new/unique but also the same tone as what everyone else is writing?
