F-22 unrestricted climb: According to former F-22 Demo pilot "Dozer", in the early days, he wanted to see what the F-22 could do for climb on take off. In a fully combat loaded jet (70,000lbs) he held the F-22 on the deck after wheels up and pulled pure vertical at 570 knots - an easy pull. When he did this in a clean F-15, he experienced "buffet" around 30,000ft and this buffet was the jet running out of airspeed/stalling. So when he experienced a similar buffet in the F-22 at 30,000ft pure vertical, he thought he was having and "F-15 experience". But when he looked at the gauges, he was M0.99. Monster engines.
An F-22 driver at Langley (wonderfully nice guy by the way who was diagnosed with cancer in flight school, beat it, and then got the Raptor) told me the same thing. Even in the vertical, he said that the thing would keep accelerating until he pulled back on the throttle.
Quote from F-22 Chief Test Pilot Paul Metz (interview by Carlo Kopp): "The fastest way to get to altitude in a Raptor is to accelerate to supersonic on the deck and climb all the way supersonically. Sorry, I can't quote the numbers but suffice is to say that we are talking high supersonic climb speeds. The F-15, on the other hand, has its best climb rate when the climb is made subsonically to 30,000-35,000 feet and the aircraft is then dived to a supersonic speed before once again pulling up into a supersonic climb. The difference in time to climb using the Raptor versus the Eagle climb technique is dramatic but, again, classified."
On the ATC side, after you request that climb with the tower, the tower then coordinates with the TRACON, then TRACON with the center. Essentially, we all have to block from surface to whatever you requested, which can be a decent chunk of airspace to prevent any traffic conflicts. It’s fun to watch on a scope too. FedEx will climb out at like 3,000 FPM. Southwest 2.5-3. CRJ2s at 500 FPM. Fighters can climb so fast the datablock sometimes shows XXX indicating that it’s climbing so fast the computer can’t accurately compute the mode C.
Thanks for that Mover! that made my Monday!! I think the Air Force/Navy, might want you as a recruiter, lol! I believe you might inspire a lot of young people to take to the skies.
As a former Viper & Eagle Crew Chief, i remember my first unrestricted climb during a incentive ride at Luke back in 1988. 311th TFTS. My 2nd was in incirlik Turkey, while TDY from Torrejon AB 613th Amu. My final "incentive" ride was at Spangdahlem AB 23d FS in 1995. After that 2 other back seat rides were maintenance support rides during cross country flights to Aviano Italy & RAF Mildenhal. Regret not having a Eagle ride though.. But I had a great 25yr AF Career
Long time listener, I like these kinds of How to, Why to videos, Sir! Unrestricted climbs are indeed morale boosting. As a 20 year Flightline guy, we would see them from time to time, but as my time was predominantly spent on Thunderchiefs and Aardvarks, they weren't that often. Never got a real kick out of Vipers or Eagles though, after the first few back in the 70's and 80's. The most impressive for me was the F-111F on an FCF (Functional Certification Flight) unrestricted climb and mission profile flight. The Aircraft would be loaded with no stores, and wings empty of fuel, for a take off weight of ~55,000 pounds. With 26,500 pounds of thrust each motor, we were near 1 to 1 thrust, and they'd take-off, semi Russian style, lift enough to pick the gear up, then ground effect to the end of the runway, where they would do the 60% climb. As they went up, they'd start pulling the wings back from 16 to 27 degrees or more, and then as a speck, do your positive roll over. They would them come back after a 1.5 hour flight sometimes with peeling paint on the leading edges after hitting Mach 2.5 plus out over the North Sea corridor. The Vark was big and LOOKED heavy, but the F model was a mean and powerful Lady.
The F-111 was quite the bird. I worked all models at the depot at McClellan and worked everything from the modification/overhaul center to flight test. We were civilians but we also had a military test and evaluation squadron there and they really put those birds through some stuff. Been retired a long time now but have some great memories. One of my favorite aircraft and I've worked on quite a few in my 36 years with the USAF and DOD.
@@StevenDaugherty-uo5csMcClellan is not what it used to be. I pick loads up from there sometimes but I miss when it was still active and seeing the planes flying overhead.
@@mrjohnklake Yes I hated to see Mather AFB close, that was where I spent most of my military time, with the SAC unit there, the 320th be mb wing. Then worked at McClellan until they shut it down too. Finished my career at Hickam AFB in Hawaii. Its sad to see both Mather and McClellan now when I come back to Sacramento. Enjoying life in Thailand now, about three hours from good old U-Tapao.
@@StevenDaugherty-uo5cs I would love to move to the Philippines. I have had plans to visit Thailand but we will have to wait and see how that goes! The only thing I do not like about SE Asia is the humidity! Holy crap!!! Have you sprouted gills from the humidity yet?!?
@@mrjohnklake Hahaha I do check my neck every now and then. Yes the humidity sucks. You do eventually get used to it. And some months aren't so bad. I come back to the USA once a year but usually only stay 2 or 3 months. Life in Thailand is so much more peaceful and relaxed and definitely more affordable.
*I saw this documentary where an F-14 Tomcat did a -4G pushover inverted against a Mig. They took a beautiful picture. They were keeping up international relations.*
Mover, here’s a quick no-shitter from 1993: I’m a LTjg on a good deal cross-country in an F-14A out of NTU. Pcola, then NAS Dallas for a Daily/Turn, then on to Chicago, NAS Glenview, then RTB. At Dallas base ops, they ask if I’d like the “Tomcat-ONE” departure. Upon learning it’s an unrestricted climb to FL200 within 3nm of the field, I️ said “Why sure!”. I️ gathered a bag of knots in a low Trani, swept the wings back and started the 4g pull at 400knots. Sadly by 18000, I️ was out of knots and had to level off at FL190, and milk it up to 200 slowly. After a great RON in Chi-Town, we roll through base ops and innocently ask if we can get an unrestricted climb out of there, expecting a quick “Nope”. Surprisingly, They replied you can request it on Tower freq. Sooo, we taxi out with an initial clearance to 4K & ask Tower for an unrestricted climb. But Tower only gives us 7000 feet. Soooo, we ask for higher and get a “Standby”. After a minute or so delay, the controller clears us unrestricted to level 220. I think to myself “self, first, COOL, 2nd I’m gonna need a lot more knots on deck to get to FL 220 and 3rd I’m amazed that Chicago Center Is on board with this… but it’s a Sunday morning so I guess they don’t have much traffic?!” After takeoff, I’m 250 knots at 50ft at the upwind numbers accelerating in full grunt, wings coming aft to 68deg. About 2 miles later I’m north of the field, zipping over the top of row houses. I’m still in full blower, 420knots and maybe 150ft. Then I️ am shocked to see (and overfly) a church & parking lot full of cars (it’s Sunday morning at 1015L (typical last day of a Xcnty hangover launchtime 🥴). Sh!t! , so start my pull to the vertical. Laying on my back I️ start processing that church service was in session that must have been HORRIBLY loud and I️m regretting this mistake, all while my RIO Checks in with Departure: “Victory 1, passing 7.3 for FL220”. Controller’s response was “Victory 1, say again altitude?!?”. I look inside watching the altimeter spinning and chuckle as my RIO tries to time his reply, “Victory 1 passing…. Passing …..One-FourThousand! ” he says with obvious glee in his voice for nailing his Altitude call! The Controller (in panic voice) “VICTORY 1! Level off FL200, HEADING 220! Traffic several quadrants and over top at FL220!!” Oh shit! I️ successfully guess correctly which way to roll in the vertical and pull out inverted. I️ roll upright at exactly 200 heading 220 @ 230knots. Silence on the ICS. Silence on the UHF. 30seconds later, we are switched to Center and the flight proceeds on to Oceana as if nothing happened. No phone number to call, no noise complaints. It’s all good, apparently. Well, still scared, after landing I️ called Glenview Base Ops and asked what happened (and also hoping to intercept and resolve any noise complaints at my O-2 level. But luckily they took the blame: seems that the tower and departure controllers knew we asking for a Max Performance Unrestricted climb, but when they coordinated with Center, Center assumed it was a heavy-laden C-9 asking for an unrestricted leisurely climb due to fuel constraints. So my lessons learnt that day: ask for a MAX PERFORMANCE CLIMB not just an unrestricted climb, and two, have SA -it’s not nice to buzz a church service on Sunday morning!
Imagine the pews vibrating, 20 years of dust being dislodged from the ceiling, concentric ripples in the holy water, chandeliers dancing, all of the men grinning, and the organist seamlessly breaking into Danger Zone. I wish I was there!
Back in the 80s I worked with a guy who had been a military cargo pilot. (C-119 maybe?) When he was in Florida he occasionally had a very heavy load to fly from a smaller airport into Miami Intl. Over a certain load they would give him a JATO bottle. Being a "sneaky fun seeker" he came up with the idea of firewalling the engines and seeing if he could get off without lighting the JATO. On the "happy" flights where he had avoided lighting the bottle he would request an unrestricted climb when leaving Miami. Then he would light the bottle with an empty plane. He said it was the most fun you can have in a cargo plane. After a few times they got wise and started refusing the requests for unrestricted climbs...
When I was working at McDonnell Douglas in St. Louis in the 80's, I would sometimes see F-15s do an unrestricted climb for test flights. I always suspected it was to avoid the heavy commercial traffic around the airport (Lambert Field), but it's good to have this hypothesis confirmed. I'd served 4 years in the Corps around Phantoms and Skyhawks, so knew what a typical military take-off looked like. It was great to have a civilian job where you still got to see F-15s flying around now and then. 😀
I used to watch those F-15s from McDonnell Douglas at Lambert go vertical with my Dad when I was a little kid in the early 1980s. Seeing pairs or 4 ships going vertical was insane.
I was in F-15 Flight Test at McAir (Lambert Field) in the early 80’s and yes, our test pilots used what was called a Viking Departure to clear local airspace quickly… very quickly! An awesome jet!
During the early days of OIF we did a lot of zoom climbs in the 130 departing hot zones like Bagdad. We didn't have the thrust to climb out of the manpad envelope, but it kept us away from small arms. As the war dragged on, the powers that be got more restrictive and we had to perform standard climb outs.
Fighter Jet Friday at Luke AFB can be quite fun to watch. I work next door to the base, outdoors. Gonna miss the Vipers; 2 squadrons left, one (309th) is transitioning to F-35s after the current class graduates. QQMF!
Unfortunately, pilots have lost their lives doing unrestricted climb. One F-14A Tomcat pilot Lt Cmd. Stacy Bates in the 90s proudly showing off to his parents, plugged in full zone 5 afterburner and did an unrestricted climb at the end of a 5000 feet runway. He went into the clouds at 3000 feet and was expecting to come out of the clouds at 5000 feet. In the clouds, he experienced vertigo while failing to rely on his instrument and pitched the nose down listening to his inner ear thinking he was climbing while he was descending. Came out of the clouds at 400+ knots. He pulled on the stick hard pulling almost 9G inducing G-LOC to his RIO. He got the nose up, but still could not reduce the descent rate. He slammed into a house at very high AoA killing 4 people including himself, his RIO and two people in the house.
An unfortunate exception to the rule. That aviator was the broken clock. I’d also like to add that Navy overlooked his struggles with flying in general as well. I believe Virginia Tech has a good article about it.
If you want to see a proper performance take off look no further then a eurofighter typhoon. There's no leveling out to gain speed for momentum. Straight up, it's lush. More power to weight ratio so just goes up like a rocket.
Always my favourite thing to see. Hold the nose down all the way down the runway, then pull. My F-111 flight commander during RTU said he was able to do a vertical climb in an F-111 F model (lafter he'd got down to a low fuel state) during an air show. Said he really shocked the F-15 pilot who was doing his display at the same time.
Gotta love a quick climb. Get to see them frequently on Fridays at Lakenheath in UK with F15s and F35s. Not sure if it's okay to mention other youtubers, but there's a certain teddy bear in the UK that streams quick climbs on Fridays. We're blessed here in the UK as it's okay to go watch, take pics and videos, provided done safely and respectfully of course.
The F-15Es at Edward's would do one every time they went up. They would be 30 feet off the deck all the way down the 15k foot runway, then straight up!
In the UK the typhoons unrestricted climb is as soon as it rotates, nose goes up and it climbs up straight away. It would be interesting to compare the time to height. One staying low and gaining speed before pulling up. Vs the typhoon going up straight away.
I got an incentive ride when we were down at Tyndall AFB for a live fire exercise. in 1992, F16D out of Shaw AFB. unrestricted climb, If I remember correctly 17,500' when he rolled out on top. did 7.5G a bit later, the gray out was coming when he unloaded it. hit the 100% o2 switch for a couple hits. E ticket ride for sure.
I always loved watching the raptors at JBER do unrestricted climbs. there was a hangar-turned-gym there and some days i'd walk out and watch them go at it.
I've been lucky to watch C-17 "clear the air" bumping from 4000ft to "beyond your wildest dreams" as that girl had "left the room".. was a sight to behold...
I lived off of the flight line at Al Assad for 5 months. Although the rumble of F-18s taking off every few minutes shakes your universe, the unrestricted climbs never got old.
I asked a retired T-37 instructor about this one time and he told me it was because fighter pilots don't know how to fly a SID / don't have the navigation equipment to do so. I think he was joking? Lol
We didn’t carry the publications with the SIDs printed, too many pubs, too small a cockpit, and we were not required to have those pubs. ATC usually knew that, but occasionally we would be given a SID departure and I would just say unable.
1979, sitting on a pickup truck outside Bergstrom AFB, multiband radio tuned to 126.2, heard tower clear Demon 11 (RF-4C) quick climb to 10,000 ft.... never forgot that.
In the backseat of 34th FS Rude Ram F-16 at PSAB in Saudi Arabia during Southern Watch. The "official" reason was because there was a possible insurgent/terrorist threat from MANPADs. A fired/defective missile was found in the desert near the base. The feeling a view looking back as the ground disappeared from the seat reclined 30 degrees was unreal. Then the roll from inverted to upright. Thanks for that ride Navy exchange Pilot "X-Man" Cross.
That is absolutely sick. You’re airborne 1/3 down the runway, 20 seconds later over the threshold, 20 seconds later the whole runway looks smaller than your head. I think those old fighter pilots were right. Didn’t look like a steep angle but you got gone quick.
I always wondered why they didn't just push over without inverting first. makes sense with the limits of the aircraft on the negative Gs. The raptor does it a couple times during their demo so must have a higher negative G limit.
Back when I had my incentive ride in 1982 in a F-4E it was referred to as a "Max Climb". It was awesome! The only part of the ride that was better was the low-level Mach run.
Hi, Mover. One question: Is Unres. done in MIL or 'burner? In combat, the advantages are clear. But, if it 'burner, aren't you increasing your risk to MANPADs?
When my ANG unit was the first to receive hand-me-down F-16As in 1982, our maintenance techs took the mostly hangar queen aircraft apart and replaced all wiring, engines, avionics, etc. After engine runs in the hush house, a pilot took aircraft for a functional check flight. Being the ANG, we were not restricted in the way we flew. Our unrestricted climbs consisted of brake release after lighting the cans, rotation and leveling off at ~ 50 feet to the end of the 8,000' runway and straight up. Not 85 degrees, 90 degrees until the engine ran out of air. I watched it happen 24 times. Over the next seven years, we became proficient in the air and on the ground, resulting in a win at Gunsmoke '89. It pissed off the USAF units who gave us their worst airplanes in '82. Two years later, we received an invitation to Al Kharj to plink Saddam's T-72 tanks followed by deployments to Enduring Freedom, Iraqi Freedom, Southern Watch twice, Northern Watch. We were the first ANG unit to receive F-16C/D from the factory. First ANG unit to fulfill the SEAD (Wild Weasel) role. Semper primus.
I was fortunate to do many unrestricted climbs on FCF hops in clean slick wing Block 30 large mouth Vipers. In the winter months out of MSN my takeoff roll was 800’. We have 1000’ overruns on 36/18 and I’d be raising the gear at the threshold. At the end of the 9000’ runway I’d be at 475 KIAS and pull to the vertical leveling off at 15,000 for an ECS check followed by a climb to the block 390-430 for the speed run. What else is better with your pants on?! 😅
Mover, do Vipers pull out of afterburner to mil power momentarily when raising the landing gear while conducting unrestricted climbs? I only ask because F-15Es do, and sometimes will even do so with normal departures from the airfield, depending on configuration. I had observed this for years as an F-15E maintainer and recently received an incentive ride in a "clean" Strike Eagle (not entirely, we still had CFTs, missile racks, missiles, nav/targeting pods). During my incentive, we did an unrestricted climb to 15K and the pilot talked me through the takeoff and pulled out of burner to avoid over speeding the landing gear and once the gear transitioned up he plugged the burners back in. Despite the CFTs, missiles, pods and pulling out of the blowers for a few seconds we still had over 500 knots at the end of the runway! We did a 4G pull to maybe 70 degrees and next thing I know we were pulling over the top just below 15K and still had 400 knots of airspeed. It was one hell of a ride up to the heavens! I briefly worked Vipers for 4 years and wish I could have experienced a ride in one of those. I couldn't remember if they practiced the same technique with the landing gear as the Eagles do (Pratt & Whitney -229 powered).
I live about two miles off the end of Buckley Space Force Base and the CO-ANG(block-50 F-16's) love to do quick climbs going from ground 5700' elevation to beyond visual really fast, and we can tell what they are doing just from the sound of the burner.. of course Buckley is sandwiched between Centennial which is a very busy GA airport and just 8ish miles from DIA (Americas busiest airport) So I believe its partly to get above the 10k airspace control, and because these throttle jockeys love the kick in the pants.
Unrestricted climbers, eh?..you funsters at tha' CW club house really enjoy throwin' them double entendres aroun';..cause DC folk think y'alls talkin' bout them..say wha'?
At Hill AFB they told my Father & I that it was a required procedure after engine change. But Hill was also where they stole 3 F-16 engines, just drove em right out the gate, so who TF knows. This was also late 80's/early 90's, so it was definitely a different time reg wise.
I would pay to have the FAA file to appeal the f35 exempt from that low visibility exemption from 250 under 10 rule because of the irst powered sensor fusion that allows the pilot to passively track targets through the nose... Lol
Every fighter base I’ve been at (Spang, Kunsan, Kadena) I’ve loved watching the quick climbs. Kunsan’s run path to the bowling pin was down the runway and had the best front row seat to the whole show.
I live in crappy Portland OR. Best thing here is when the guard F15s do this. It was crazy the days after 911 when they were doing it day and night. They would also come low level over the neighborhood and actually be maneuvering, like two jets weaving back and forth. I mean super low. I didn’t live far from the airport but traditionally you’d never see any aircraft of any sort flying that low. Scared the living sh*t out of my liberal neighbors. My dad and I would be out there cheering them on. Made me feel safe.
Really?People complain about if they don't have exactly right Wow don't they know it's just a movie It's sound like that movie where that girl thought that soap box was real. I went to that place and talked to them like they were real characters didn't know his fake Same as the guy that I worked with thank wrestling was real 87 years old would argue that.All of it Is real Come on, people just a movie.They don't have to have everything perfect Entertainment They're not there to get scored if they got something wrong
Hi there. Great video. I enjoy a lot your content. Thank you for that. I'm no pilot, just a military planes enthusiast. I have a question, about the negative and positive Gs. I thought that pilots would go for positive Gs also for an health question. When you pull to climb and you get positive Gs, your blood is pulled down, and your suit and some techniques help counteract the positive Gs, you may blackout due to lack of blood in the brain. But with negative Gs the blood is pushed up towards the head, you may increase the blood pressures in the head, get a redout and other problems because there's no way to counteract a redout, and it may lead to health issues. Is an the issue? Did I got it wrong? 🙂 Thank you!
As a kid growing up in the UK in the early 70's "the" fast climb intercepter aircraft was the English Electric Lightening but were these old planes as good as we were told? Would love to hear what the reality was? I suspect there was an element of "risk" 😂
Everybody, it's just a movie. We know everything's not accurate. It's all about putting it more exciting or putting the story in as they go.It's not professional done And we know this I know they're not doing things exactly, right? But you don't have to ruin the movie buy pointing Out all the bad stuff that's not right Of course it's not right We all know that that they emphasize here and there People think they're being smart by pointing out things that are wrong about a true story They know what's a true story if they're just turning into twisting things in their favor to make the movie I mean. Like the bad guy Does when he's by himself?We don't know exactly what he did by himself.I said So the movie feels in that part what they think would make it better We all know everything's not accurate. But they still turn out a good movie.And give me some idea what happened And by the way it's the Director That Set up the scene the way he thinks it needs to be done The actors tried to study off the real pilots to know How to Look more like a pilot and sound like one Just don't put too much negative in there like they're supposed to done it this way or something just say this is how we do it compared to what the directors got them doing it
Hello. I am wondering what engine you were using for the unrestricted climbs. I work with a developer for a flight simulator and we are trying to match the performance you had in the video. Knowing the engine and thrust would be a huge help in matching it as closely as possible. Thank you.
The coolest climbe I have ever seen are the F-15's when the Air Force was in Yuma and took off at night, just watching the afterburner glow till it was so small it was hard to see, then the pilot coule go out of afterburner.
It always amazes me to see fighter pilots with their sleeves rolled up. Flight suits are for burn protection. As an Army pilot, you better not get caught with your sleeves not rolled down and over your gloves. Even your watch had to be on out side of your gloves or sleeves because fire will heat up the watch and direct contact with your skin will burn a hole in you.
this video does not really give you the true level of the noise.... they train over my city a few times a week as the city noise masks the sound, but here a mile from the city edge in the burbs, deafening lol
My understanding is that there is sort of an equivalent in landing an aircraft in a hostile environment or a high traffic area. Mover, can you comment on that?
