Giant, or decathlon. Giant because they are as close to holistic as feasibly possible Cheers for the shoutout! When people ask me I normally say if your current bike doesn't creak and is comfy, don't change it, because you risk wasting a load of cash on a heap of shite.
@PeakTorque respect your view but I had a Giant TCX which was utter shite. The BB was so far out of round Hambini would have had an orgasm over it. It was an utter disgrace. And it wasn't an isolated case going by the forum chatter. Great advice to keep your current bike though, I just 'upgraded' my canyon to a supersix Evo and the mech hanger has to be fitted loose otherwise the thru axle won't screw into it 🤦♂️
Giant should be higher on the rewards scale. Great designs and from what I’ve seen solid construction and the bikes mechanics I’ve spoken with say their product warranties are second to none.
Indeed, Giant Bicycles are the lowest risk highest reward than any of the others, terrific value for money and widely available. Scott and Specialized bikes are a bit much marketing to try punching above their actual weight.
Agreed, they beat everyone else on price, availability and warranty is fantastic, they are the definition of giving you more for less. All specialised and scott bikes overprice based on brand name, it's a consistent thing
I had a Trek 5200 Ultegra (8spd) from 1992 as my race bike. The last time it was used in anger was at the Lahti 70.3 (2017). Then I retired it. On the hunt for a new bike I ended up with a Giant Propel Advanced (2021) and was so impressed by the price/quality ratio I went and purchased a Giant Revolt as a gravel bike. Love them both to death. My mates prefer Cevelo, BMC, Specialized, but I don't see the value in the marketing 😬😎 Of course, like anything, your mileage may vary 😉
I've got 3 bikes, all that get a reasonable amount of riding. Two Giants (Road, MTB) and a Merida (Gravel). I would have bought a Giant gravel, if one had been available, but been very happy with the Merida, and indeed, when time comes to replace the mtb, will be looking very seriously at the Merida options. In Australia at least, Giant's warranty etc. is outstanding and the quality is excellent. After, well over 30 000km, my Giant Defy is ticking along flawlessly (this includes a frame replacement at about 10 000km). No creaks. Press fit BB on all three spin as they should. Disc brakes work properly, which strongly suggests they were properly faced at the factory, and so on and so forth. The M&S allegory is good. I like to use Toyota as a comparison, for both the big Taiwanese brands. Solid, reliable, reasonably priced, will look after you. No, not going to excite you, but I love all three of these bikes and frankly, have no interest in anything European. As I said, come replacement time for all three bikes, I'll pretty much be looking exclusively at either Giant or Merida.
I think Giant should be higher as well. I've owned 3 and still have two (Revolt and a Mnt bike). I loved them all. Good value and you get a lot for your money. Also I've had a couple of warranty issues and they have stood behind their products.
I've only ever bought used bikes ('cause I'm cheap), but I really like my 2011 Specialized Secteur Elite Apex. It has been a fantastic bike. It is easy to work on and handles very well. Could not be beat for the $250 I got it for.
I really like specialised as I have always had amazing customer service. My tarmac sl4 cracked at the headtube and specialised replaced it with a sl6 expert with upgraded direct mount brakes. The bike shop didn't complete the rebuild to their standard so they sent it to another shop for another rebuild, they also gave me a power saddle and composite spd-sl's for the hassle. I wouldn't look by them
Hmmm. My personal experiences with Giant bikes (I've purchased several framesets both aluminium and carbon and then build them from ground up) have been nothing but excellent so far. Never had a single problem with BB, HS, Seatposts, brakes or any other component further down the line. Build quality and tolerances have been great. I understand they are not necessarily the sexy brand people dream about riding but they are really solid. If the REWARD is the envious looks of other riders then yes You are right a 3 MAX but to me REWARD is a long term satisfaction of a quality bike causing no issues what soever. I guess this may mean totally different things to different people. I also think Scott is a very unervalued brand and makes some of the great bikes but for a below average hight rider like myself their geometries clearly prioritise riders with 180cm+ same for Ridley and Cube. They have above average standover height frames and won't suite every rider. Again this problem is completely unknown to Giant bike owners. TIme bicycles don't even have a distributor in Poland where I live but I wrote them an e-mail asking about their products and to my surprise I got a quick response and they are ready to serve a customer directly wherever they don't have a local distributor and a network of bike shops so great Kudos to them!
@@Mapdec A while back, I had 2 shocking brand new Giant Defy Advanced Pros. QC was abysmal and factory build equally poor. First one went back with multiple issues. Second one wasn't any better. Cut my losses at that point. However, the service from the Giant store was very good. I'm on the lookout for a new endurance bike now. Do I chance it?
Can confirm Scott Speedster was my first bike, 11 years ago, still works fine, used heavily in the first 6 years, less so the last 5, just getting back into more serious biking and considering a new bike and finding it difficult to justify going for anything other than a Scott.
Why not consider reconditioning your current Scott Speedster? I've just rebuilt mine (from 2005) with repaint and upgrade including new 105 calipers, Sora shifters, and some fancy anodised bolts. Did it all for under £400 but it looks and feels like a new bike. With some shimano r500 wheels my bike comes in under 9kgs (size 58cm) which is not bad for the budget. If I swap the alloy forks for carbon I reckon it'll get pretty close to 8kg. Something else to think about :)
@@alexharbron Largely because I'd like something with a little more relaxed geometry but also I'd like to try some of the higher up groupsets like 105/ultegra or equivalent.
Im new to biking because of Plantar Fasciitis. I cant run anymore but cycling is fine. I road my wife's bike for a month, then once Id decided I liked it went to my local bike shop in Ormskirk to enquire about a purchase. This almost certainly reduced the risk by a massive factor. They were so helpful. I probably bought one of there cheapest bikes which was an Orro Terra C 105. Its absolutely brilliant. Right from in the shop on the rollers to my first couple of hundred miles it brings a smile to my face. No rattles, squeaks or problems. Its 25% faster than my wife's (maybe some of that due to under-inflated tyres!!) But, yes. I think I lowered risk by choosing to buy from a reputable shop, like yourself. I got the feeling everything was checked and tested before passing onto me. Ive got nothing to judge it by because its my first bike but Orro seem very good.
I love, love, love my Colnago C40! Had 3 of them and they are the best riding bikes I have ridden, trained, and raced on. Not the most aero, but classy and built to last a long time.
My Defy Advanced 0 disc from 2020 has been brilliant. Yes I have upgraded the wheels and the bar tape but it has now done 000s of miles and never missed a beat.
Having owned one, I wouldn’t have another Cannondale if you gave it to me. Aren’t they also known as Creak N Fail? I had a Trek Domane but the frame broke, replaced under warranty but the replacement eventually broke too. Specialized replaced my wife’s Dolce Elite when the frame cracked after 7 years, great customer service.
Ridgeback, Bianchi, Surly, Thorn, and Planet X have all been brands I've had great bikes from. Giant has a great network in the UK, my LBS is a dealer and most of our club ride them. I was impressed how well my brothers Defy Disc 1 was put together when I worked on it.
@@rosomak8244 Ridgeback MTB converted for shopping/commute, Bianchi road bike retired due to damage and replaced by Planet X. Thorn for audax/light touring, Surly for turbo/heavy loaded touring. Forgot to mention Orange P7 mtb for off-road. Each bike serves a different role.
I think Cube could be rated a bit higher, with their higher-spec models being pretty damn well thought-out. For the entry-level stuff I agree on your rating. Solid bikes, for not a lot of risk. Replacement for my gravel bike were easy to get here in germany.
I discovered Cube when looking for a "cheap" belt & hub bikes, with their Hyde... but I changed my mind and wanted a Decathlon gravel, totally impossible to find in L size with Shimano... So for 10% more I bought a better equipped Cube "CX" instead - I put brackets around CX because its BB axis is not higher than on my road bike! but at least it handles like a CX, which was one of my reasons to buy it. BTW I've heard Cube are mostly known for their MTB's... I had to order it directly from Germany, they are just out of stock everywhere locally.
In spring I bought a bright orange Pinarello Prince FX frameset for a discount (last years model) and built it up myself (with SRAM Force). Hi risk, because nobody but myself to blame for the build. Some birthing problems like creaking etc., but mainly due to lack of expertise (and now I know better...). Half the price of a Dogma but more than half the fun. I’m happy and proud and excited everytime I get it out of the shed. Spending only half for a Canyon, Giant, Merida would have been a waste of money.
I have a Pinarello F and Grevil. I enjoy riding both very much and Pinarello seems to have a unique riding experience for me. I have ridden S works Tarmac, Roubaix, Colnago C64 and a look cyclocross.. all fine bikes too… but I love riding the Pins
I think Canyon punches above their base line too, they send me immediatly spare parts whenever I needed them, ranging from brake pads, to a new derailleur hanger, even new tyres - because all other online shops where out of them. So for me an awesome brand with highly appreciated and wanted models.
On the flip side, a lot of people in my riding groups have been affected by issues with their canyon bikes. I don't think canyon has outright denied any wrong doing, but in most cases they have made it very hard for people to get sorted out with repairs. When they do approve something they seem to try to process it in a timely manner. However, when it comes to proprietary parts they take a VERY long time to supply what's needed.
My son has one. Customer support was reasonable, not perfect. They did compensate for a couple of things. When I ride it it just make me want to go hard. Am thinking of getting an aluminium model for myself.
With some brands, like Spesh, having a very diverse lineup I think you should also mention the deviation from product to product. Some fall into upper half, some in the bottom, some are smeared along the line.
I really like the Cinelli Veltrix you tore down & rebuilt with some carryover parts. I’m now watching for it to go on sale so I can attempt the same. Thank you!
My personal experience with bike brands: Giant: bought a TCR in 2020 (Advanced Pro, carbon wheels and mechanical Ultegra with power meter). The shell of the upper headset bearing was 0.05 to 0.10 mm too wide, the upper bearing was moving even when the headset was correctly tightened. Sent the bike back to the shop, got my money back. Specialized: bought a Tarmac SL6 Sport (105, alloy wheels) in early 2021...the steerer tube had a massive void (looked like a white/grey bubble, easy to detect tapping the tube with a coin). Sent the bike back to the shop, got my money back. Merida: bought a Reacto Bahrain ed. (the cheap one with alloy wheels) in early 2021...the bike was ok but the cables integrated inside stem and head tube looked like a nightmare. The seatpost was stuck in the seat tube (kind of a press-fit) because the person in charge of preparing the bike for shipping was an idiot. Sent the bike back to the shop, got my money back. Olmo: bought a cheap carbon frame in early 2021 (450€ if I recall correctly)...seat tube diameter was 0.8 mm out of tolerance. Sent the frame back to the shop, got my money back. Canyon: Endurace alloy frame broke after 28000 km of use (kind of ok...I paid 500€ for it). I ended up buying a Cinelli Superstar Disc frameset...it is not perfect but I have used if for about 7000 km without any significant problem.
2016, CUBE attain gtc sl disc. After Yr of use, every bearing replaced. Disc's squealed all time. New ice tech rotors. Still squeeled. Dt Swiss hubs, all bearings wearing too quickly. Sent back to shop who sent back to CUBE. Whole frame out of alignment. Got money back.
The larger the brand (Specialized, Giant, et al), the harder it is to put the whole brand into one box on the matrix. I would tend to separate S-Works from Specialized, for example. Another thing I have heard about bicycle manufacturing quality (credit to Leuscher Technik) is that the big brands utilize multiple Chinese factories to produce their bikes and quality standards vary between factories and it varies based on how much supervision and testing the brand exercises at those factories (credit to China Cycling). So it is hard to do that. I have been riding a Pinarello Dogma since 2016. Love the bike. Paid a truck load of cash for it. Not easy to get support in the US. I had a mechanic over torque my steerer tube and it had to be replaced. It took me calling in a favor from a manager at one of the bigest Pinarello dealers in the US to secure a replacement fork from the distributor. It was not easy and many dealers wold not be able to pull that off. So, I get what you are saying. On the positive side, the Dogma is awesome to ride. And having watched Time's videos about weaving their carbon frame tubes over mandrels and explaining their carbon infusion process and Hambini showing how round, concentric and parallel their BB shells are, they are an attractive alternative. I am waiting to see what develops out of their announcement about a new US factory and a partnership with Clemson University. It could result in innovative bikes and more focus on US distribution and product support. Hopefully, they get it done soon. I want to get a disc brake road bike and the wide tires that enables.
main bike TIME Skylon 2016 rim Di 2 Ult...never had an issue, now I have jinxed myself for today"s ride. Had 2 Canyons they "ghost" shifted on power climbs so I sold them. Had a DOGMA F8 that snapped at frame hanger, I wish someone had video of my slide to stop, it had to be hilarious. Currently looking at TCR Pro if I can buy direct.
I’ve worked on lot’s of frames and had lot’s of frame’s back to bare carbon ready for painting so I’ve seen load’s of frames paint free and with all their work on show. Most bike companies don’t make anything and get manufacturing companies to make their products for them. Design and marketing is mostly what bike companies do and Specialized do that very well at a high cost. Trek make some frames but not many and they are certainly falling into the style over content trap that Specialized are trying to pull themselves out of. Remember the first Venge 🫣 and the less said about the new Madone the better. Just making a bike that’s light and doesn’t need a recall looks tricky for the cycling industry at the moment. Most standard carbon frames weigh more than decent aluminium ones now and are too stiff. Giant seem to have kept their head while all those around have lost theirs. Their standard frames are still light and well made and the top end ones are very light and fast. Some don’t have their cables or hoses hidden but they are lighter for it. Giant are a manufacturer like Look and that’s why I think they are possibly at the top of their game.
Not at all, one has 9 risks for 2 rewards and the other 2 risks for 9 rewards. That's a huge difference ? You can't just assume because it's score pattern in 2/9 or 9/2 that the result is the same, they are not placed in the same area at all on the chart
I had steel frames made for me for almost twenty years, my first off the peg was a alloy TCR (Dutch national team issue) with Campag.. I drove it into the ground, untold racing km's and crashes, ripped the forks off it in one.. New forks and back off to the races, it was a monster. Look 675 was next, exquisite machine, quirky French headset. Full Campag Chorus. ride was unbelievable, pounded the hell out of it for three year of northern Thailand roads before the chain stays cracked.. Present machine is a Swift, designed in South Africa, made in China, full carbon. 11 speed Chorus. Indescribably tough, yet still fairly compliant ride. Owned it 7 years with out a murmur, survived a crash that put me in the hospital for 12 days.... Jayco rode Swifts for a while, really really good machines
I love my Ribble. When I ordered it 19 years ago, it is now £300 more than then. No seriously it was a 13 months wait but a very nice wagon when I fiinally got it.
Whether we want to admit it or not, we are all affected by the marketing of these bicycle brands. Nobody is going to feel the same pride of ownership for a Giant bicycle in the same way as they would for an S-Works, Bianchi, etc. So after watching this assessment, I can't help but wonder if somehow your opinion of these brands was shaped by the marketing messages especially for subjective criteria like "fantastic riding bikes." It would be funny if somebody gave you a Giant bicycle and relabeled as S-Worksor Cannondale to see if your opinion would affected by the sticker on the frame. Just like the experiment where cheap wine was transferred to the bottles of expensive wine and served to wine experts. The label affected their perception of the wine.
It’s a great point. I might do a vid on this. MTB depends a lot on suspension. Could I spot a TCR over a Dogma? God yes!!! Could I spot a TCR over a SuperSix? Unlikely.
@@Mapdec Suspension and frame geometry, including things that influence suspension. The same fork and shock don't work equally well on all frames, especially the shock (very different leverage ratios and suspension curves).
I agree about Cannondale. I love my 20 year-old bike built on a Cannondale CAAD4 cross frame (XS800). But I dread the day when the Headshock fails. They need proprietary parts and specialist tools to service and repair.
I have a 10 year old Stock which has been fantastic. No issues with press fit bottom bracket and still on the original headset. 105 groupset still going strong I have only had to change cassette, brake blocks, cables and chain other than that all original. Paint work still looks like new after being cleaned. The ride is a little bit harsh and the max size of tires that will fit are 25mm. I am getting on a bit now so I am going to change for something with a bit more comfort next year but I do worry that the quality will not be as good as what I have now.
Yep, Giant on the bottom. They are like the Toyota of bikes. Boring but does the job and does it well. I get dropped more times by old men on giant bikes than any other bikes 😅
I'd self build, even though you pay more because you have less landfill OEM garbage. Dodgy tires, wheels, and cockpit parts all need replacing to be up to standard. Alu frame, carbon fork, medium/high-end alloy wheels, carbon seat-post, 105 11 speed mechanical group-set, calliper brakes, BSA BB. Frame brand that's known and has some kudos in racing if you want any kind of resale. Bit like a pro's winter training bike if they spent their own money.
Vitus- I got a 2021 Razor Disc from Wiggle 6 months ago for £620- FULL Sora (with HTII BB not a Prowheel or FSA crankset) and disc wheels(I replaced with DT Swiss P1800's, wheels are like pedals on a new bike, usually change them!) but also TRP Spyre twin piston mechanical brakes (about £120 the pair last time I looked?). It's 12mm x 100/142 thru axled and the frame welds (look like carbon!) and paint job is excellent on it, and the bike is 9.3kg with the DT wheels.... I just got a 105 groupset (for rims, £299, cheers CRC!) which will be going on it for the summer when it comes off the turbo....Superb bike to ride and for the money and upgrades I'm well happy with it.... (As I am my winter bike...an upgraded Carrera TDF with carbon fork, Mavic Aksiums and Tiagra 4600!- cracking bike, nobody would nick it cos it's Carrera lol)
Always been very happy with my Ridleys, no problems with the frames at all tbh. I have always purchased a frame and built up, so cant comment on the complete bike from new experience. Another enjoyable video by the way👍
I ride a TCR and it's maybe not the most exciting bike but it's a solid choice. I live in Taiwan and I got my TCR for 30% less than what you guys pay for Giant bikes...so, no competition. 80% of high end bikes are produced in Taiwan but we're paying a premium for most bike brands except of course for Giant,Merida and Gusto. Giant bikes are very reliable and customer service in Taiwan is great.
Giant should definitely be higher, often overlooked in USA but their quality and some of their designs are definitely top notch, dealers provide an exceptional service and customer support!
Fuji Transonic 2.1 rim brake. Best bike $3300 mechanical shifting. Upgrading it to mechanical dura ace and components from: Hambini, Rotor, shimano pro, and HED all in for $7700USD
My Trek's 20 years old now, the 5200, and I love it. If I hadn't crashed recently it'd still be running faultlessly. The Scott Addict (endurance) is a bike I'm considering as its replacement. Or a Fairlight Strael.
@@tommyfreckmann6857 That's a dream bike right there! Very nice 👍 I have no idea. it was my dad's bike originally, then I took it over about 12 years ago. Until last year I was probably doing about 300 miles a month... And hibernated it from December to March 😂
Yeah, I'm with you on Cannondale. I love their design and it sounds like they're been working on their manufacturing tolerances and QC over the last couple years, but my qualms are their parts selection especially on lower end bikes. I have a Topstone Alloy and they have garbage Formula hubs that have non serviceable freehubs/bearings. You look at them funny and they get dirt in them and require a special tool to remove them that you can only get if you purchase a replacement freehub. The Topstone allow frame is fantastic, but for as much as they are charging above something like a Poseidon gravel bike for comparable groupsets you'd think they'd have better wheels or something.
Generally agree with the placement. I have a Look track bike. The quality and components are great, but the process to replace spares or warranty concerns is frustrating. I have gone in circles with emails, reps and shops. I decided to get a less "special" road bike. a Cannondale SuperSix. Night and day when it comes to the aftersale support.
I’ve been very impressed with Planet-X. I bought my first On-One in 2021, it’s a carbon gravel bike with internal cable routing and threaded BB. It’s based on a Carbonda frame. I’ve been very impressed with it in both terms of ride feel and build quality. Overall they seem like a good company to deal with from ordering the bike to getting replacement mech hangers. They even offer an options list when ordering your bike. With big brand bikes you just get what they give you. I liked my On-One so much that I bought another one as a winter bike in 2022. This time a more basic steel frame with external cables and slightly lower cost, but it’s still kitted out with SRAM Rival 1 and a carbon fork. I think the specification list on Planet X bikes exceeds most other bike brands for the same price level and slightly above. So far with a combined 4000 gravel miles or so across both of my Planet X bikes, I cannot criticise build quality or fit and finish on either of them. They don’t seem to get much coverage on RU-vid other than through their own channels.
They are hard to review and comment on because their range and prices change so frequently. Defo some strong hitters in the range. Space Chicken for example.
Obviously winspace and yoeleo are the best ratio. Pretty low prices, and they have local country representation in many markets for warranty issues. They seem to have less issues than the big brands, probably due to the lower volume, they're willing to take the time to do it right.
100% i have 2 sets of Hypers 65mm and the latest 60/67mm and a 60/80 yoeleo all perfect fast as Fuuk and true as the pope! I also have a Elves Falath frame built up on sram e-tap 7.5 kilo direct mount brakes its a specialized tarmac killer!
The fact that you can only buy those brands online and would need to send them back for warranty issues and they are still very much unproven and hit and miss makes them high risk.
@@dorsetgravelandroadcycling1181 Absolutely not,Many proper reviewers say these brands are so much better than the so called big boys,there workmanship is second to none and they also have a full back up program if you do have a problem,much the same as if you buy a bike from a shop they have to speak to the manufactures to confim repair and every bike company excep Look and Time work out if shenzhing china.
@@davemellor4697 most of those reviews have been paid or given items to say that they are good. You also have the high risk or returning items and needing to wait for a replacement and the cost of shipping items. Most bike shops will sort any warranty issues quickly and won’t charge to return or repair items.
Have few friends with Giants, they’re sturdy bit not very desirable, I only like TCR, rest design-wise is a No Go for me. Scott are superb bikes at very competitive price. For instance Scott has the cheapest gravel with Rival AXS, 3500.- even undercutting the Canyon, which is crazy value. But their dealer in my country, I just can’t be bothered anymore, appalling service levels, non existent customer care, have ruined my back shock and brakes, according to them, both just decided to die but straight after their service by the local Scott dealer… I want to hint that for me personally aftersales service is a major key point and local Scott dealer has zero, otherwise I would be running they’re gravel bike at the moment.
For me Mason would pretty high up on the scale. As close as you can get to a bespoke build, hand made and finished in Italy all parts available and you can even buy touch up paint. The guys always answer all my silly questions. Really good quality alloy frame that rides like carbon, in fact you question do I need a carbon bike when you ride one of there frames.
@@Mapdec the definition I have in the Vela colour way chefs kiss. I challenge anybody to find a bike to that evokes such emotion for such a fair price I feel
I second that…own both the Columbus steel resolution and the ti aspect… beautiful bikes to ride, and importantly I can service them completely myself without any complexity.
Good debate but again highlights the fact that most over look badge engineering. Example, Giant make Pinarello. In the modern era I'd say Giant offer tremendous value. An SL TCR is now just about half the price of a Tarmac. Also after doing this for 17 years, would say Giant again for Warranty. Bloody superb. As a brand a bit Ford mondeo but once people ride their bikes they are awoken and commit to the brand.
People also forget that if Specialized are extremely common in Europe (people there call them the 'Ford of bikes'), Giant are literally everywhere in Asia like Merida is, even as rental bikes.
Just bought a cannondale supersix evo high mod disc from 2018 just to get into creaking territory. I rode a Haibike affair entry carbon bike before without any problems 😂😂😂. Still love that cannondale as an mechanic and engineer 🤣. I can disassemble and assemble it blindfolded like a soldier does with his rifle. At least it the bike was from the used market and cheap
Hi. Bought a 2022 tcr pro 0 disc. Purchase was based on a year of looking at bikes and people talking about bikes. My previous bike was a carbon fibre Bianchi c2c from 2008. Lovely bike, never made a noise, handles like a dream… and so to the Giant… After about 2000 miles I reckon I should know this bike and feel confident with handling etc but… Twice, at around 70kph I’ve had speed wobbles. I also have had numb hand issues so could be the bike fit. Generally I do enjoy the bike but I don’t love it. Went out on a hundred miler on the bianchi recently and just felt re-born. Handling perfectly going downhill at speed, handled 20 miles of the tissington trail like a full on gravel bike (25mm) with just a few 14 year old creaks coming through. It’s so hard to make the right choice with a bike, especially when trying to buy it through the lock down. Thinking about going back to Bianchi… what do you think?
I should also add that the service that I had from the shop was and still is amazing, when you go higher up the food chain less so. The fact that the speed wobbles have been noted by email means that if I do co e a cropper there might be some recourse but it felt like the corporate level were not really bothered..
I have a 2020 Ribble Sportive Racing with Ultegra R8000, its under 8kg with carbon wheels. I also have a 2022 Ribble Endurance SL, with 11sp 105 R7000, disc brakes & Mavic Aksium Elite Pro Evo wheels. The newer bike is slight heavier, but is more compliant & I'm less fatigued by road chatter after 3-4 hours on the bike.
Just watched... Ive owned Cannondale, Giant, Cervelo, Voodoo, Trek and currently a Pinarello... I would agree with Giant and Trek. Pinarello I would put even higher on the line... I have a Grevil+... Stupidly expensive and pretty awful reviews... But, it worked perfectly for me as a "one bike" solution for off and on road... I looked at everything and I genuinely cannot think of a better bike for exactly what I wanted, albeit a pretty niche usage case! The ride is much more rewarding than reviews suggested, it's no lightweight but I live in a very flat area (Norfolk) so the aero benefits outweigh weight by miles for me. It just feels fast. Tyre clearance is much better than advertised (700c X 50c fit happily with clearance) and the finish was fantastic. Not had a single cream or squeak out of it.
In 2020 I rolled the dice on a cheap Chinese carbon road frame from Tideace (a brand of Haidelibikes). So far it's been great - bear in mind that I'm not racing at all so not pushing any performance limits, but I have done lots of miles on it (3K at least), plenty of 100+km sportives etc. It did take a while to arrive but they kept me up to date with progress and always responded within 24 hours. I forgot to order a derailleur hanger when I ordered it and they sent me another for ~$15. I've had no issues with the frame so it's hard to say how good their after sales support is, and it's a sample of one, so hard to know if their frames are consistently good. I'm not a trained mechanic nor a professional engineer like Hambini so maybe I'm missing issues they would see straightaway BUT it doesn't have any BB creaks, disc rotors don't rub, and shifting is smooth and consistent, comfy to ride, and relative to the crap motor that's sitting on it, it's really fast and responsive.
Used bike from Look is what i end up with. 765 for a 2 grand. Changed its wheels and tires after a season. Everything else is spot on. Compared to a new cannondale i've bought at first, Look is in a completely different league.
@@Mapdec Lol, Look in a different league. For sure. I have owned 6 so far so could tell you a few interesting stories from the use. Once the issues get fixed they are rideable, but as for what's out of the box, they haven't produced a single bike in the past 10 years that wouldn't be a hassle in one way or the other. £3k for a brand new frameset that came with a deformed head tube, an oversized bb shell, and a clunking sound coming from the headset each time I hit a crack or a hole in the road surface due to a poorly designed expander plug and a non-round steerer tube. And don't get me started on the older 795 and what living with it was like. Bike only became rideable after installing Hambini's bb. Spare parts are like white ravens - one has to bend over backwards in order to get hold of anything. And they cost an arm and a leg. I have recently (6 months ago) got my first Ridley, an X-Night, and so far no issues, except having a little play develop in the headset assembly due to the non-round steerer tube and too smooth/short expander plug not being able to hold it all tight. I can live with having to tighten it up once in a while. So long as the bike doesn't creak, I am a happy chappy.
Most of this assessment comes down to the frames, I think, as components are going to be pretty much the same across all bikes. For me, any hand-made, custom geometry frame (I've got 3) is going to get you closest to the top right. And prices for really nice steel frames that will build into nice-riding, reasonable weight bike are pretty affordable these days. Of my many bikes, the very best is (and has been) my 20 year old Seven road bike. it was very (very) expensive at the time, but the titanium still looks as good now as it did then (graphics are a bit scuffed) and I've just done the first groupset changeout after over 35,000 km on it. Still gives me that pride of ownership: looks and ride lovely. Given the time I've had it and the amount it's been ridden, has worked out to be a bargain in the long-run. For smaller brands, I really like Cotic: great bikes, nicely finished and good customer service, too.
The underwear bit is funny. I think your evaluation of the brands covered is spot on. The mathematical formula at the end IMO should be Risk/Reward not Risk*Reward, but I'm not sure what you intended the final number to indicate. For me, I also look for brands that support racing (most of those mentioned are good in that regard), avoid brands that have a history of buying and cannibalizing other brands, but the x-factor is what a brand says about the rider, which takes time to get a feel for. I don't know why, but there are certain brands where every rider you come across is either a nimrod or a d-bag, so once you've had those experiences, those are brands I personally don't want to be associated with regardless of the quality of the bike. I tend to like boutique brands; I currently own a Merckx, Litespeed, Evil, Tomac. Next bike will probably be an Aurum.
Great idea for a video, well done. You now need a follow up video for brands youve missed out now that we're all sitting here 'wondering' about our own bikes! Orbea, Colnago, Genesis to name just a few. What will be good is to see the collective comments because, for example, cant believe that all the brands Hambini reams are that bad. Over to Mapdec........
Orro STC carbon is very good. I wish there was an inspection video on one of them frames. I beleive that brand is very underrated. I ride an Aira which has a higher grade carbon mix than a Ridley Helium and the whole bike with Ultegra cost less than the Ridley frame. Pinarello are great bikes but I once had to pull more or less the whole bladder out of the down tube of an F8 and I've seen some really poor quality production and qc from them also. Not many bikes hold their value at all. Many have to be held onto untill they become a classic like my Genesis Volare 953
I've got a Trek, Bianchi, Pinerello, Sworks, Ridley. Giant, Chinese copy colnago. The Ridley had the worse finishing, press fit bottom bracket undersized, the carbon finishing inside is the roughest of the group (on par or worse than Chinese copy colnago). Then it's Bianchi, Giant, Trek and the best finishing are Pinerello and Sworks. I've briefly had a Canyon Endurace SLX that is on par or better than my Sworks but that had multiple cracks, seems to be very fragile.
Very disappointed with the score giant has been given, have a tcr myself and the feel of the ride is so free light and nimble compared to other brands, I've ridden the trek emonda and couldn't believe how bad it felt compared to the tcr, I'd always recommend giant because of this, same goes for the anthem best fun I've had on a bike was on the anthem, ride feel is very important and helps to bolster your belief in the bike and then your own ability as well. Also having the knowledge that the quality is in the bike and ease of maintenance is there doesn't hurt either, Final words "ride feel*
Score in the end should be reward / risk or reward - risk, not reward * risk. That’d be the punch score. For still ranking by reward I’d suggest something along reward * (reward / risk) which gives something like ‚expected reward score‘.
Opinion based on riding a Domane SL for half a year - cool bike, can be an all-in-one, comfy for beginners and will fulfill some of the enthusiast's needs. But the pricing is just wrong (talking about AL and SL models) - those should be AT LEAST 500€ cheaper. Trek feels/looks mainstream and with adjusted pricing it would be a no-brainer for each beginner looking for a versatile bike.
“Sometimes maybe good, Sometime maybe not” it’s a bit of a hit and miss. Their range and prices changes so often it’s hard to say one way or the other.
I just got a Time and I’m in Canada. Their customer service has been fantastic, and all the spare parts are easily available to North America on their website.
@@Mapdec I think it also has to do with their recent change in ownership. Time was previously owned by Rosignol but in 2021, the pedal division was sold to Sram and the bike division sold to Cardinal Cycling group. While their bikes are still made in the EU, Time’s bike division is now operating more in the US which among other things would explain their stronger presence in the North American market as of late.
ICAN, Yoeleo, Farsports, Lightbicykle, Og-Evkin, VeloBuild, Winspace, Hongfu, Dengfu, Trifox or Elves. all punch above their weight especially Winspace
Velobuild doesn't count.. they're not a manufacturer. Just sell on oem frames.. the others.. yes. My mates got one of theirs. Albeit 4 ish yrs old now, it has a split above the front mech hangar. And flexes like a laggy band.
Based on my experience (I own a nomad 4, gf both an n4 and 5010 all of which I built and maintain) I’d rank santa cruz quite high. Although they might be a bit boring in terms of graphics/image and are often considered dentist bikes, the quality is great and they are an absolute joy to wrench on. Good fit, great cable routing, common sized hardware/bearings, easy to whip the damper out (as opposed to having dozens of unnessary washers), no funky sized parts that are hard to find. Great handling as well as they are pretty sensible in terms of geometry, absolutely love the feel of vpp linkage. Nice, linear progressivity. In short they are real riders bikes, just wish they weren’t so bloody expensive!
My winter bike is a CAAD13 and although it's hard to admit, I think it rides better than my Colnago C60 and Canyon Ultimate. The handling is absolutely superb. So much fun to ride 😀 If you could only have one bike for summer and winter, you would be at no disadvantage with the CAAD13
I've got a CAAD10 and a rim brake TCR pro1. Both are identical in geometry and ride feel. Yes, the TCR is smoother and a little bit snappier, but there really isn't much in it between the two. I've been ridiculed by some for stating this but I can only speak as I find.
My two contributions would be Kinesis and Whyte. Both offer something a little more ahead of the curve in real functional design/geometry whilst still giving great value.
@@Mapdec wow! That's a shock. I guess there's a time for every owner of a brand to consider if they carry on or call it a day. Not to say that the team will be different to start, but I bet they have very different definitions of success.
@@Mapdec this is a sign that a brand has 'jumped the shark' - I knew a guy who is a bike mechanic (an ex Halford one also) and he has his dislike of Bianchi (as much as Hambini does). He hated them because of this 'Ferrari owner' mentality of their owners. I only recently realised how much the brand had jumped the shark after the Pantani era and when they got sold off. How about Marin Bikes, they used to share distributors (in the UK) with Whyte and had worked together until their fallout. Who could forget the distinctive hydroformed tube design of the late 2000s, this was before their fallout and their sale. Now their range is a shadow of their former self, nothing to write home about - I p***ed off some people on the internet for telling them the brand had already 'jumped the shark' Re Sports Direct: how many could remember Muddy Fox and what have they done to them?
Bought a Giant Revolt Advanced 1 two months ago had a few teething problems, but customer service has been great. Before I get started I would say it’s a nice bike overall. However, the bike is $4000 and I’ve just replaced the D-fuse handlebars because they’re way too wide and really uncomfortable. When I tried to take the tape off it stuck to everything leaving sticky lumps of tape stuck to the bars. IMO that’s a sign of the cheapest crappest tape they could find to put on it! The D-fuse handlebars are approximately $50 on Giant’s website. The pX-2 wheel set on it is only a few hundred dollars, and these are the RETAIL prices! The saddle and dropper post are cheap as chips too. Their MPH disc rotors aren’t compatible with the SRAM brakes imo cus the braking is worse than Rim brakes on carbon rims in the wet! So, in essence I paid $4000 for a frame that probably costs them a few hundred dollars and a SRAM Explr groupset! I believe companies deserve to make money, but the more I analyse the cost of this bike the more I feel short changed!
@@Mapdec my focus is more about the amount we pay compared to the cheap ass components they actually give their customers! 🤪 I wanted to re-use the bar tape but as you say that’s now landfill! Thanks for the vids btw!
The latest bike in my collection is the only one I have ever ridden that is worthy of the plaudits and acclaim given. The customer service is second to none however rather than punching above its weight I would suggest it delivers on its promise to the consumer. In a market that is often found lacking that's enough for me.
@@Mapdec a Lightweight Urgestalt disc with Lightweight Meilenstien Wheelset, THM Clavicular cranks & Carbon-ti chainrings with Favero Assioma Power Meter Pedals, THM Tibia Stem, Darimo bars, eTap with OSPW, Recon monobloc casette, Goodridge steel braided brake lines, Hope RX4 monobloc calipers and hope 160mm discs front and rear. The bike is sublime and the customer service from Lightweight is second to none. They have done things such as contact me to confirm that I am happy with the response I've had from them. (Never had any other bike company do that) I've owned Dogma's, C64, S-works, Alchemy, Parlee and none come close to the completeness of the Urgestalt. The Urgestalt is certainly positioned at the stupid end of the market and while I am unable to claim it is a sensible buy or offers value it does deliver a special rider experience unlike many premium models I have had from the major bike brands. In that sense it delivers.
Another slightly less highlighted but well made and very reasonably priced manufacturer is ICAN. We must not forget that the vast majority of framesets are Chinese or Taiwanese. The astronomical prices of the "leading" western brands are inflated beyond belief. It's merely perceived quality due to the high price. The frame manufacturers get a small fraction of the price you pay. I like 'real' quality at a fair price. Hence I bought winspace and yoeleo.
There's a few reviews out there for the aero a9 etc that are positive. Never seen a poor review. Hambini has reviewed one I believe and likewise their wheels. They're cheaper than winspace and yoeleo but are highly regarded. This combined with cost makes them above the diagonal line. I used Jim Langley videos as a reference to my initial wheel builds and he also has been positive about them.
I bought a Scott Addict Rc 15 last year--best bike ive owned in 40 years of riding in terms of performance--never had a creak or noise--syncros components just work...and some of those prism paints they do really stand out..maybe not the lightest but ill take durability any day over sketchy light wheels or some new weird seatpost that canyon had so much trouble with . In Us, few Scott dealers compared to Europe, but great frame with solid inhouse components.....and with Ultegra DI2, never skips a beat
You missed Yeti off your grid. And I think Giant deserved to be slightly higher on the ‘reward’ axis as they are generally better value than Trek or Specialized.
Great video:D I'd switch Time with Look on your chart. For quality and finish Time is the pinnacle imho but as you said, buying one sucks, the whole process is a pita and spares lol forget it. For me I think Specialized suits me best. Atm I'm saving for a look blade frame to build up myself for next summer. When I finish that I'll probably start on a SL7.
I have to say, aftersales service truly depends on where you live. Currently in Vietnam (and there's a huge cycling culture here). Both Trek and Giant aftersales service is dogshit. I don't know if that's due to the LBS. There's no way to contact the manufacturer directly. Any spare parts I've had to order from overseas.
there is a lot of white noise in this video, maybe you used a different computer or for some reason it interferes, it can be inconsistent, not all motherboards have well shielded integrated sound. I had this issue on my previous pc, even recording volume and sensitivity varied, and I had constant white noise, and I sounded drunk, nervous, but here you sound great apart from the loud white noise. Maybe it's this Mic that is the issue, but the vids where I did not see a this Mic the audio was perfect. I don't know if you used this mic or a mic attached to clothing. If the Mic is not the issue it's likely the onboard audio, if you have a sound card it should be better, but external sound cards exist too.
Giant should be way higher. Wife's Trek Madone and my Giant Propel both around same price but Propel has Carbon wheels, electronic group set, power meter and fully integrated cockpit.
Loving that you did a follow up vid quoting this, my mistake that didn't put full bike name in its the disc version which has sram rival not mechanical ultegra. Keep up the great work loving watching the video. Wife is gonna love that you prefer the Madone.
When and if they come in. I’ve actually never seen a Factor in the flesh. Weird. Cube is pretty unremarkable really. BMC are doing interesting things again.
Bianchi? No way. They are owned by a massive holding company that uses poor designers and manufactures in very low end Chinese factories and charges high due to the high kudos name history. They had many world tour failures I believe.
Trek was the (sort of) Pinarello of its day though their bikes seemed as generic as they get, Trek attracted Pharmstrong glory hunters and Pinarello attracted Team Sky glory hunters
@@Mapdec didn’t the same helped with SAF era Man U and their supporters were labelled glory hunters - as with Pinarello, I’d rather Miguel Indurain to anybody of Team Sky
I've had two Trek (Boone and Emonda) not impressed with the BB. My son and I have had a lot of Giants and they always seem good value and the TCR Pro is a versatile race bike. My current favourite is my winter bike - Lynskey Ti with full mudgards and 28mm tyres. Might be a bit heavier but it does ride well and is silent on the road. even on the rough lanes. I also love my Specialized Chisel which is specced to get to total weight of 10kg and it really deals with pretty tough trails as well as long distance XC rides. Alloy frame and SID Ultimate forks.
