The knowledge that Abhijeet Sir puts out in these podcasts is amazing. I don't think history teachers in India's best colleges can provide such indepth and critical analysis of historical events in such simplified way. Thank you Kushal sir for bringing out this amazing podcast with Abhijeet sir. There are very few RU-vid channels in India that provides such high value information. 🙏🙏🙏
Yeah for a fellow Bengali MC AIM must be god because he is rejecting the existence of Indian ethos what better can that be ….. the only thing left with bongs is to change their names so they can be liberated !!!
@@Views-Opinion Tere ko Asaram Bapu ya Ramrahim ke sath jail mein rakhna chahiye tha, wahi tere ko Moksha de sakta hai. Tere jaise hi akal ke andhe log unko chahiye. Ye podcast tere comprehension level se bohot upar hai tu jaake bhains chara aur kisi Ram Rahim ya Asaram type baba ko Thai Massage de , wahi karne layak hai tu.
@@rishighosh5099 Exactly …. U see only negative in Santan but in Bangladeshi you see god, change ur name and get liberated !!! Between these guys have gone to jail during Modi’s tenure and not while ur ilk was in power.
I can’t imagine how come Kali Mata is tolerating you Bongs but then Maa ko boore Ho Yaa acche … bacchons se pyaar hota hai …. even if later generations will destroy her temples or statues … Mata to sirf pyaar karegi …. I hope Kali Mata gives common sense to once the most educated Bongs !!!
It is surprising how casually these two laudus are able to be meme reviewers at one moment and serious mind-baffling history podcaster at another moment.
The whole outlook with economics of commodities and logistics between ancient civilizations, make this one of the better use of AIM over the internet, and Kushal you are a gem of a moderator, thank you for setting this up. Looking forward to the Q and A.
Guys! This was an eye opening session. I have downloaded it and listen to it again and again. Every time, I learn something new. The logical sequencing and chunking of information delivered is masterful. Very expressive and easy to understand. I feel as if I am looking back and the events are unfolding before my eyes.
guys this was amazing.... i would love to hear aim's pov on vedas as well. ..please o a podcast with him on that subject. Thank you so much for this one.
Fantastic. The fun part is, In the middle of serious archeological and sociological discussion AIM blurtingout BC and sort if saying Ghodo ki topic mae Gadhe is hilarious 😂
Main problem with this theory is that TIN, lapis lazuli is found in present day Afghanistan, so why did IVC develop in Indus valley, which is 500 KM away, its not even a port city(like Dholavira , Dwaraka)?
Nice work guys. I hadn't heard about the shift in tin supply as a factor in the Harappan decline. I seem to recall a reference to the rivers shifting and drying up. I'm interested in ancient migrations, but I don't try to speculate beyond what we can know from archeology and genetics; however, I understand why you guys might have stronger feelings about it considering much of the unsupported claims made in the past.
@The Cārvāka Podcast The main reason people site not using iron instead of bronze is not having the capability to use higher temperature furnaces. If Iron was locally available from before, why would I pay so much to get a little extra toughness on bronze, It wont make my army significantly weak, if I was able to use iron. It does not add up. Also, is there any backing behind the hypothesis that tin sources dried up after a while? Just curious
Gold. The only thing the rest of the world had that was worthwhile to Indians at the time was Gold. Other than that, Indians did not value foreign goods or textiles in those times.
@abhijit great explanation using archeology economics and various age technologies connecting all the dots. You nailed it. I have one exception though. any knowledgeable person on this topic who knows the whole picture will agree there were many invasions or migrations from central Asia even during the 1700 to 1900 bce time similar to sythians, huns, Turks, kushans etc However the issue is to call it Aryan as the vedics call themselves Aryan and not the central Asian nomads. Perhaps they were the Ashura or the rakshasas or such people who used to disturb the Vedic yagnas which is even documented. So I have no issues calling it the Ashura invasion or migration theory. And as you mentioned perhaps a small percentage of them assimilated and intermingled with some jatis which later mixed with all
AIM is wrong at his hypothesis on multiple occasions (esp on patna jharkhand) in this episode just to prove his logic. He seems very eager as well. He is usually calm.
economics is more important than history am geography. we have to learn history geography through the lens and the filter of economics. everything becomes 10x interesting
IVC was made possible by Tin mining? It is just a hypothesis. There is no proof of IVC being a source of Tin for Eygyptian and Mesopotemian cultures. Even Tin in IVC is said to have been imported. Copper of course was local. Also Cyprus is more known for Copper than Tin!!! Abhijit, did you goof up?
it has less to do with tin it was convience which attracted egyptians plus the rare blue colored lapaz lazuli which made it even more reasonable. ur thoughts?
@@animatordora9506 agreed on Lapaz Lazuli. But this talk claims the Bronze made IVC possible because of availability of Tin. My main question is was Tin really abundant in IVC + vicinity? AIM says Bronze made IVC possible and not the other way around......
@@MrPnritesh civilization develops on many points then first of them is availability of flat terrain and ample source of fresh water. Then came fertility of land and size of it and relative isolation from hostile tribes. Abhijit's association of growth of IVC with tin is an example of short sightedness. That's why u need a trained historian or archaeologist to understand these issues.
I was puzzled by this too....the mix up initially between Crete and Cyprus. Cyprus was never 'owned' by Crete. And as you mentioned Cyprus was copper producing. Left wondering what's the basis of AIM's hypothesis?
@@suen3634 Abhijit say a lot of stuff on the basis of his hunch. So, apart from his expertise in foreign affairs he is as knowledgeable as me and u are.
Are minions people from harappa? After they find tin in Cyprus they stayed there.. is it true? Because there are similarities between minions and Harappa of worshipping..
Ofcourse it was. Last IVC cities were abandoned around 1800-1700BC and it only around 800bc when we again see archaelogical evidences of mahajanpadas(cities) associated with vedic. The life was village and gram based for a whole 1000 year period.
Kushal kaala nhi hai , mera pyara Caucasian hunter gatherer hai . Defined facial features. Mera sasta Rick grimes Abhijit on the other hand , bangali bhosdu mein east asian admixture lagta hai mereko , khaskar jab woh chikna hota hai Gaand si shakal hai uski🤣
My question to abhijit is , 1.that was the bronze Age collapse as an event as harsh for the then great civilizations like the oil crisis of 1970 multiplied by 1000 , is it comparable to the fall in 6 th 7 th C. E 2.And harappa at it's peak is it comparable to anything we have now 3.Also I think on what you said off the fall of harappa seems that collapsed harappa was more of a very deurbanised form of modern day Russia (am I getting it right)
2) Harrapa at its peak was closest to what communist utopia look like. 3)Modern nation state are build very differently.... they rarely broke down especially nation like Russia as it have monopoly on too much resources
@Alexios I Komnenos the evidence of heirchy is very slim in harrapa except for the difference in house sizes it's very hard to point out what else, we can point out more differences in other societies at that period but people don't claim that they had similar system at that point of time.
@Alexios I Komnenos Jaati system was born out of manusmriti and is only 2000 years old. It has being proven through genetics that endogamy started only from 100bc-200AD onwards which coincides with manusmriti. Around that time there was a revisionist movement in hinduism, classical sanskrit was born and a lot of rules and codes started to be associated with the old vedic religion. Buddhism and Jainism were at its peak at that time and probably priests and scholars felt the need to revolutionise the vedic religion which resulted in it becoming more orthodox. Vedics brought with themselves only the varna system where people were divided into priests, warriors and commoners as seen in many indo-european cultures. These classes were interchangeable and was profession dependent rather than birth dependent. Harrapa was more equitable than anything seen in the world a utopian communist paradise like someone pointed out.
@Alexios I Komnenos I never said nomads created jaati. There is a huge difference between jati and varna. Varna is based on occupation and is interchangeable like anyone can be associated with any varna. Jati is based on birth. Jaati system and endogamy is only 2000years old as proven by genetics. They were not nomads anymore. Vedic settled into cities(mahajanpadas) as back as 800bc. Buddhism and jainism didn't oppose because there as no caste based discrimination prevalent at the time(550bc-450bc birth of buddhism and jainism), it was occupation based and interchangable within a family. Even in scythians which are closely related to indo-iranians and indo-aryans society was divided into priests,warriors, commoners. There was a major churn in hinduism around 100bc-200ad and that is when jaati system was born. Classical sanskrit, birth of puranas, manusmriti are all around the same period. There was a shift in belief system from old gods like indra, surya,varuna to new current gods as well. Could be reduce the influence of buddhism and jainism but it's only a hypothesis.
It could be that IVC was importing horses from the steppes and the steppe men had kids in IVC. sort of how jewish traders created a jewish group in India with most of the dna coming from the male side.
Before I watch, I came here to listen to India bashing 🤣🤣 ok now to the video Edit: Chalo, the discussion was kind of academic with very little Abhijit beats down India 😂 Highlight - "Mahabharata! We are talking about "real history"" 😂😂😂
The likes of these podcasters are here to make a living, if something worthwhile comes out, they will take credit. Ghanta research nahi kiya hai khoodka.. Read Macaulay and then gave a orange 🍊 flavour.
Actually Tejas isn't a good thing for 2022. Not that it is not good in itself. It's just that that the time and effort put into it isn't as efficient and better competition is there in 2022. Government has to give incentives to other countries to buy and no-one has bought it yet. Only 60% or so of tejas is ingenious btw.
@@gangar99 yaar even American weapons are not 100% made in US. R&D is the only way forward, if you don’t even let our people try at the least … it has passed so many trials …. Surely it’s a good fighter for the money ….
Aim post Galwan analysis apart and Kushal’s laughter at memes… these guys are doing nothing …. even NDTV does a better job at presenting fiction as fact then these guys presenting facts !!!
MC AIM said let’s talk about serious history and not about Mahabharata then Dwarka found under water is supposed to be build by Carl Marx … Kyaa yeda aadmi hai 😀
MC AIM said let’s talk about serious history and not about Mahabharata then Dwarka found under water is supposed to be build by Carl Marx … Kyaa yeda aadmi hai 😀
@MR map Koi bhi real historian Muhammad aur Christ ko real nahi bol sakta, dimaag laga bhai ki koi kaise flying donkey aur virgin mahila se paida ho sakta hai 🙃
@MR map Lekin un dono ko aapke favorite so called "real western historian" ne real figure hi mana hai 🧐 Lekin Hindu figure ko mythology bolte hai 🙃 Agar Muhammad aur Christ real hai toh usse bhi real mahabharat hai.
He's getting fat like crazy Ask him to eat during day only, 7am-1-7pm No snacking in between, only black coffee or green tea , cut vegetables We need him to be alive for another 30 years at least ❤❤❤❤🙏🙏
@@sameerturki4317 this is the worst reply on nutrition ever Restricting calories leads to slowing of metabolism, cascading original lens fuel to calorie and nutrient deficit along with obesity, craving and snowballs downwards We need balanced diet 33:33:33 And saturated fats with saturated fatty acids are good for health, stick to good virgin coconut oil, palm oil , animal fats Moderation, discipline are the key factors
You really need to work on the "Thumbnail"(What Changed In India After The Bronze Age?) , you put on the wall. The entire conversation has been stuck till the decline of the late Harappa phase. Bronze never went out of use but remained to continue with the iron age.
One question, tin exports fall and climate change shifted people from Indus to Ganges, but in India tin was always available for local bronze production so what prompted Indians to shift over to iron and center themselves in Magadha? What prompted technology economy shift?
and where is tin majorly found in India? Chhattisgarh. There was no possible way to sustain the society with major loss in economy. So probably Necessity to sustain did make iron a feasible metal ore to build the society back. And India is one of the first nation to produce an iron age empire (atleast according to Wiki). This can also be backed up with the precise metallurgical achievements and research that India had. My guess is that with the lack of tin and hence bronze, they were searching of a metal whose extraction was available locally and thus got the knowledge of iron and its deposits.
By this time technology had caught up & intensity of warfare increased as well. Iron thus becomes a staple against tin which is used only for ornamental purposes.
Brilliant analysis of historical economic forces. Very incisive and uncovers a lot. What you missed on focus is copper sourcing , mining and trading to Egyptian Sumerian civilizations.
My question for the Q&A round is, why don't we have any literary source regarding the IVC period? Could this be their "Satyuga"? Although Rigveda was a Bharata tribe text, but there should have been some mention of a time that was so prosperous.
That's because Rig Veda is also stratified and the older stratifications are older than the mature harappan phase. I don't agree that Anatolia is the homeland of proto IVC.
Question for QnA: Abhijit mentioned Harappan time was very equitable for all. Was the next economic boom i.e. Iron age also equitable for those living there? If not, why? Had the caste mobility become rigid by then?
Social structures are also byproduct of surroundings, so if it had become rigid, that's also has to do something with surroundings not the other way around.
Caste Structures with strict endogamy are noticed from 1500 years ago, which may be caused due to the Gupta Era. This is as per Razib Khan's work on genetics.
@@ChaitanyaDhavala Caste and endogamy is by product of Evey agricultural society, japan had it Egypt had it, in post agricultural societies professions passed through family yo family. Endogamy is also inevitable when people live in small tribal communities . All these genetic studies so far are based on very small sample size of hundreds and thus can't be used to brush social structure of 3000km width and length land mass . Before Gupta megasthenes mentions 7 tier hierarchichy in indian society. Caste is as old as it gets.
@@varunkhugshal9049 Your point makes sense as such analysis may have not been conducted for other countries. However, the level of sub-caste endogamy atleast in parts of South India is staggering. Also, the endogamy starts in India, as per genetic analysis by Razib Khan, only from about 1200-1500 years ago.
Hi Abhijit, Thanks for sharing this knowledge. One critical comment - if you are saying that one of key reasons of collapse of IVC is the dying out of tin trade, your assumption is that the tin trade alongwith lapiz lazuli & carnelian with Egypt, Mesopotamia contributed significantly to IVC's GDP, much more than their internal consumption. What is the basis of this assumption. Also newer studies show that there were early settlements in Gangetic area contemporary to IVC. Wouldn't IVC be having significant trade with its Eastern neighbours?
Exactly, Abhijit is giving too much importance to the trade with Egypt and Mesopotamia during time. Abhijit hunch would only hold water if IVC would have been a single political entity which is next to impossible to imagine. IVC would most certainly consisted of dozens of city states which would have there own trade surpluses and deficits. This is most certain that internal trade would be more important to the IVC trade than foreign trade.
@@a_02_prakashnayak59 I had read many years back that the South-West monsoon significantly reduced over many centuries - probably in around 2000 BC and this contributed to drying up of Saraswati - that would have affected agriculture. I think IVC's GDP's major component would have been its internal trade within IVC and agricultural production. That would have been affected badly by the climactic change. The tin trade reduction would have added to this woe, but I dont think it could have been the main reason for the decline of IVC on its own. Even Abhijit admits that IVC was the largest civilization in terms of geographical area. So it wouldn't have that much external dependency and rather it would have a large internal consumption. So the analogy with Saudi Arabia etc who depend mainly only upon oil and dont have agricultural produce is not correct.
Because we find evidence if trade between the two. We hardly find much of mesopatamian artefacts in IVC But a lot of IVC artefacts in mesopatamia are observed.
@@a_02_prakashnayak59 Multiple city states ? All having same type of : Seals Brick proportions of 4:2:1 Weights and measures Bronze with similar contents Script with similar charecters All of it same ?
@Pragnesh Kumar To rationality failao na ,charvak darshan kyun ? I personally find it pretty irresponsible way of living based on the secondary accounts of other non charvaks describing it
@@devvratmishra9000 Carvaka philosophy can change with time. All faiths have evolved and changed with time, so why not consider an evolved Carvaka path too ? It will help hindus to use atheists against the islamists and leftists, or atheists will just abandon the Dharmic path if this option is not made aware of.
