What Could Have Been: Batman Returns 

I loved Batman returns. I think the original story was interesting but I’m really happy with what we got.

While an interesting script, what we did get with Returns was solid. Worth noting that Hamm did eventually get his way control with the release of the 89 comic recently. Also interesting that this Raven Society came before the Court of Owls years later in the comics.

In an earlier version of the 89 movie's script, Bruce chased the Joker from Vicki's apartment on a horse. Sam Hamm was just bound and determined to get Batman on a horse wasn't he?😂

The influence of this script even found its way into the comics, where the Court of Owls is more or less the same thing as this Raven Society.

I honestly love Batman Returns as it is i wouldn't change anything. I've been obsessed with Batman Returns since i was a kid i wore out the vhs tape of the movie thats how much i watched it as a kid

Wow. Sam Hamm’s script sounds like it would have made a “better” sequel to the ‘89 film in terms of tone and continuity. I think “Batman Returns” was definitely more a “Tim Burton movie“ then it was a Batman sequel. Hard to say which would have been better or worse, though

Burton's story is alot more entertaining given that he wrote it.I wish Billy Dee had done the Two Face because he would've nailed it.

Returns is unique because it is humane. .even villains have understandable reasons and arent just insanely evil.

I love Batman Returns as it is. A Tim Burton movie.

I absolutely adore Batman Returns.

Batman Returns is probably my favorite Batman film, I love it so much and wouldn't change one bit of it!

That would be a fun Netflix series, but nothing could really replace the amazing thing we got with Batman Returns; the DeVito and Pfeiffer and Walken together just made something so magical and its a Christmas movie!

Thank you for making this short a simple, instead of making an essay about an unused draft. I love the concepts behind this script and they were pretty well described

Batman returns is a lit movie.. I watch it during the holidays..

I'd love to see them make this script into an animated Batman movie.

I love batman forever and I love batman returns so I think it was a win that we didn’t get this version of the film

I think the ideas for this alternative film are great! Introduction of the history of Gotham's elite including the Wayne family brings a depth to the story that most films dont have. It makes the motives of the characters more interesting.

My favourite Batman movie. I love how weird it is. It's so refreshing after sitting through so many cookie cutter Marvel movies.

I loved batman returns growing up especially with Michael keaton, Michelle Pfeiffer as catwoman and of course danny devito as the penguin 🐧.

I loved Returns for being exactly what the director had in mind, Batman movies don’t always have to be typical Batman stories

Returns is my favorite batman movie. I remember as a kid it was on tv Christmas eve.

Makes me wonder if this script somehow influenced Scott Snyder to create the Court of Owls in later years in the comics.

Love the version we actually got ❤

Why can’t they still do that sequel? I’m sure Michael Keaton would do it 😎

I love Batman Returns as a matter of fact I think it is one of the best movies in the franchise

"Batman Returns" is my favourite Batman movie.

Sounds a lot better than Penguin controlling the batmobile with a mechanical ride version of it

Batman Returns is a fantastic movie, probably the best comic adaptation 👍

I’ve loved Batman returns since I was a kid

This is a good channel. Good videos in here. Some good research going on to deliver this. Thank you.

Just found out about this early script. Although it’s not perfect, or even that great by todays standards, I think it’s better than what we got. Batman does a lot more detective stuff in this and as Bruce. There’s more depth to Bruce’s character and how his past affects him. And it continues the continuity of 89. However, the villains are pretty 1 dimensional and I don’t like Catwoman’s portrayal as a serial killer.

“I’m not wearing hockey pants. I’m wearing rubber pants. They’re different!”

An interesting concept. I do think that the Raven idea could’ve been used for a different Batman movie with Keaton and maybe the Riddler and Mr. Freeze involved. I kind of like what Tim Burton gave us for Batman Returns. Too many bad guys in a movie makes things difficult and with this “Batman 2” it sounds like there were a lot of villains ‘squeezed’ into this film. It would’ve been nice to see Vickey Vale, Harvey Dent and Knox in Batman Returns but the movie is fine.

It's definitely my absolute favorite Batman film. I love how Danny Elfman and Tim Burton were given so much creative freedom on this installment and managed to be the only duo to truly capture the Gothic horror aspect of Batman's mythos. There may have been times when I might have reconsidered for Batman 89, but Burton was given so little freedom with that one and Elfman's majestic score was badly diluted by the egregious and grotesquely unnecessary Prince songs. 🦇🦇🦇

Yo, it’s sounds like Sam Hamm invented the prototype for what The Court of Owls became. That’s wild!

Thoroughly enjoyed this in the theater when it was released

Penguin was turned into killer Croc and Max Shrek turned into Penguin.

batman returns is the most gothic batman ever and thats beautiful and maybe would never happen again

BATMAN RETURNS is my favourite BATMAN-film. Thank god it is what it is.

i adore what we got i just watched it and i still LOVE it all these years later

I like to think Prince would have been back with the music, too. 💜

Sounds interesting, I was sold when you mentioned Vicki Vale was in it as I loved Kim Basinger in the first film.

Batman Returns is my favorite Batman movie ever! I loved what Tim Burton did and the story we got.

The script sounds solid imo everyone has something to do and everyone is surging a purpose in the film so I like it

As much as I love the alternate potential films we could have received, when it comes to the classic Batman films, I wouldn't change a thing about them to this day! Batman '89 is iconic and a game changer, Returns was so unique and different that it caused the franchise to drastically change course, Batman & Robin was so bad, it's great. It killed the franchise yet is still a classic, Batman Forever, the only one I would like to see the alt. Full Schulemacher version, was so iconic to me as a child for Jim Carrey mirroring the Frank Gorshin Riddler and the cartoonish film that it had a totally different vibe. Each if these four films can be watched with a completely different tone and vibe

If the homeless kid was Jason Todd it would have been a little more comic accurate.

I am GLAD Batman Returns turned out the way it did. It's a BETTER FILM than the 1989 Batman. As much as I love 1989 Batman, I felt Batman Returns was a much darker, grittier film. As it should be. Gotham finally lived up to its name, and the Penguin was more interesting. As for Catwoman, she's the best Catwoman TO DATE. The story? It pains me to say that it is STILL the most underrated script plot, TO DATE. This video is evidence of that. The original script sounds underwhelming as described. I was personally glad to know that Vicki was absent from the established version, because the relationship between Selina and Bruce is more dynamic, and tragic, which makes the story more operatic. I was blown away by the film when I saw it in theaters, and when I watched the behind the scenes and heard the filmmakers talking about people walking out of the theaters as if they'd been "punched in the stomach", I was shocked. I didn't see that at ALL. My experience was entirely different. People were buzzing coming out of the theater, and I can't recall anyone talking $#!T about it, until parents groups showed up on Donahue and other news shows of the day, criticizing Catwoman for becoming a villain after being thrown out of a 20+ story building. Thankfully, none of them are still around, because they were (as always) part of the establishment hype machine that continues to this day, yet the names change because said hype-individuals have no platform to stand on, since they are just puppets, who are told what to do. Anyone know what Geraldo Rivera is doing nowadays? HMMMM?

I adore Batman Returns, but I would love to see this get a Batman 89-esque comic adaptation. That would be so fun. 🦇

Sounds a lot like the court of owls years before they would appear in the comics

Awesome. It’s very rare I watch a video on a film I like and I learn totally new things I’ve never known!

I'm really happy with Batman returns. It's my all time favorite movie and I watch this like 20,000 times a year. I've watched this since I was 8 in 1992 and still watch this in 2024. I'm turning 40 in summer 2024.

Awesome editing!!!

I took my niece with me to see it but the Penquin freaked her out and had to leave early. It did have too on the Penquin not enough Batman and the next one with Kilmer got totally cartoonist. It wasnt till Bale got it on track but by his 3rd film the series folded on itself.

There were 2 very different film's for the seqwal from Batman 89,The one the Studio Wanted and the one Burton wanted and Batman 89 was such a success WB wanted Tim Burton back so badly that they let him make what ever he wanted,I don't hate Batman Returns especially not as much as Batman and Robin but even I could tell this wasn't the movie we were supposed to get with a few exceptions here and there sprinkled in the film😅

I just can’t comprehend anyone not liking Batman Returns. I thought Batman ‘89 was boring. Batman Returns had so much going on, and was so dreamy and surreal, I found it extremely entertaining and it’s something I still watch every Christmas to this day.

Love Batman 89. Still holds up. Never cared for Returns. I re-watch it every 5 years or so (so what, 6 times now?) and I still don't get the "geek love". Amazing actors, but the story is a mess and the Burbank sets are claustrophobic compared to Pinewood. It's kind of a really shoddily made film, so I try and find some enjoyment with it as a kind of prequel to Ed Wood.

Nice some of the clips are from Sleepy Hollow. Also by Tim Burton

Great Vid. I like the Returns we got

Nothing wrong with BR. Its a dark brooding classic with a great cast.

Batman Returns is fucking awesome. I love it as much as I love Batman 89.

Batman Returns is actually my favorite live-action Batman film, and third favorite Batman film overall. My top 5 Batman films are: 1. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm 2. Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker (Uncut Version) 3. Batman Returns 4. Batman, 1989. 5. Batman Begins/The Dark Knight (It's a tie).

I love Vicki as Bruce’s romantic interest in this world simply because of the 89’ Prince album. Vicki Waiting is an absolute banger and I love her section in Batdance. Almost every other version I’d say he’s destined to be with Selina, but DAMN did Prince’s soundtrack make the love story so emotional.

A combo of the two stories would have made a great film.

I've actually read that script, and while I did think it was overall well-written and featured some nice set-pieces, I also remember being startled at how TWISTED both of the villains were. I mean, it's been a while, so I can't recall many specifics, but I do remember Catwoman being quite sadistic and the Penguin unleashing some nasty bird-themed deaths on people. Maybe it would have come off as less intense on film; I dunno. Now, personally I love 'Batman Returns'; it's one of my favorite films of all time, but would this alternate version have been one I'd have liked? Sure, probably - I think it would have made a good movie, and that whole 'in an alternate universe, we would have gotten THIS' business has always fascinated me - but ultimately, it probably would have landed WB in basically the same hot water that the Waters-scripted one did. Yes, the version Burton ultimately went with is more gross and sexual and weird, but there was some stuff in Hamm's script that would not have felt out of place in an R-rated thriller - I don't think parents would have much cared for it, one way or the other.

Damn, amazing research here. How have I never heard this stuff! A very enthusiastic subscribe. I stand by Returns but this sounds really interesting.

Dent, Vale, and Knox were actually missing from the sequel. What I'd also love to see is Marlon Wayans as the unused Robin, and Janet Jackson playing Catwoman instead because she'd bring off Eartha Kitt-vibes and would replace Prince as the new BGM singer, her music fits the Burton-verse.

Batman returns is the kinda movie that I really like, but I fastforward through some parts.

I thought this was an interesting script. I've always believed that had Burton not returned, this is the story they would have stuck with. Imagine how daunting it must have been to develop a sequel to the self-contained first movie.

This movie rocks! Favorite sequel

I like your work and content. Batman returns to me was better than 89. You should do Batman 3 if Burton directed .

Batman Returns is the best Batman movie ever made. Great characters and a compelling story.

I think there could've been a happy medium between continuing the story and Burton having some creative freedom. Penguin could've still come from a rich family that disowned him because of his deformities, but his family is also an owner of one of the Ravens, which can kick start his obsession to find the fortune to take the ultimate revenge against them. Max Shreck can also be an owner of one of the Ravens, with Selena Kyle still being his assistant, as well as Harvey Dent who inherited it from his predecessor in office, but is unaware of what it's truly for. I wouldn't have Penguin die from falling, as it feels like a repeat of Joker's death from the previous film, and instead I'd have him be crushed by the fortune they find as it feels more poetic. I like the idea of the final showdown happening on Batman's home turf with the threat of Penguin knowing Bruce's secret hanging in the air. I like the idea of Catwoman being a romantic wedge between Bruce and Vicki, and as a sign that Bruce may not be as ready for a long term commitment as he'd hoped. I'd have Harvey be in the Batcave, against his will, along with the villains so that at the end, he tries to convince Batman to let him use the fortune to better Gotham. But Batman sees the glimmer in his eye that possessed the other owners of the Ravens, and realizes it's too great of a power for anyone to possess, and collapses the Batcave to bury the fortune deep enough that no one can find it again. Harvey feels scorned by this and sets up his turn for Batman 3. I'd also keep Dick Grayson, but in a minor role so as not to overwhelm the script and hint at Bruce taking him under his wing at the end.

The one we got was way better! My favorite part is when Batman did a record scratch like a DJ

Maltese Falcon came to mind when you mentioned a Raven Statue. Which itself is a detective story by Dashiell Hammett.

Batman Returns is a perfect movie,

Love your channel from Australia 🇦🇺 keep it up. I love batman Ruturns

LOVED this movie and still do!

Aside from some adjustments, and giving more depth to the characters, I like the second versions better

I dont hate Batman Returns, but it does make me feel disappointment because of what it 'almost' was. Some of the changes that would have made me love the film: I would make the Penguin an exploited figure that later turned bad, a person that grew to be vile, versus being a 2D monster that was just born that way. Max Shreck would actually be the mayor up for re-election, not a business tycoon, and use Penguin as leverage for his campaigning. During a pivotal moment in the film, Penguin comes to the realization that he is being used,treated horribly and thrown to the side for Max's gain, Penguin announces that he is running for mayor in what he thinks would be a grandiose moment during Max's campaign speech, but is ultimately laughed at by everyone. Penguin publicly executes Shreck with a gun he concealed in an umbrella, Shreck dies in the first half of the film. Penguin is wanted, and leans hard into a villain by just wanting to burn the whole city to the ground and anything that people love about it... Batman foils his plans, and this just makes Penguin retaliate to an even bigger plan where he realizes he needs to rise to power. I would isolate Catwoman's interactions from Penguin except in some unexpected meeting towards the end where Batman is in need of her help after she has obsessively followed him throughout the story. Here she has to make a choice that makes the audience question if she will help him, or allow him to die by the hand of the penguin...essentially choosing if she is going to be good or evil..but decides to take the 'middle road' of being an anti hero where she is the one that kills penguin..removing a little less blood from Batman's hands after he has practically killed every super villain. It would also develop Batman's character of how he would feel conflicted about how she handled it...even though she saved his life. A *small* subplot love triangle involving Vicki Vale and Catwoman would be interesting, as it would ultimately cause Vicki to be pushed away, and leave Bruce alone, embracing solitude, and leaning more into his role of Batman....but also explain a little why he might be attracted to Catwoman later on in the next installment as she may be the only one that can accept his lifestyle.

1:04 “Harvey Dent’s heel turn” 😂

One of the first films I’ve seen at the movies

When you hire burton you are going to get a "burton" movie. Batman should be a batman movie not a burton movie. That is why nolan trillogy and the batman are the batman movies i most enjoy.

Respectfully, I disagree. The final draft was not perfect, but still a marked improvement on the unproduced version. Now there was some stuff in Hamm's draft which was really cool. Some of the action sequences are superb, the whole of the opening scene with the Batmobile shooting a 40 foot long nova flame melting snow plus all of the Batman-Catwoman fight scenes. The main issue I have with it, however, is this version of Catwoman. She is not supposed to be an evil bitch of a character and yet this is categorically what she is in this draft (which is why her ignominious demise at the end is fully deserved). It was an interesting take, but not Catwoman. This was Goldeneye's Xenia Onatopp in a catsuit replete with Wolverine claws (she has six inch steel talons in this draft). I didn't mind Penguin in this, though he did just come across as a more violent incarnation of Burgess Meredith's portrayal. With some tweaks, this draft could have been decent. Firstly, don't make Catwoman into a Xenia Onatopp murderess but do keep her as a highly skilled thief and physical match for Batman (which she is in this script). The ending would have had to have been different too as it's fairly obvious that in the aftermath of Hamm's draft she would have been arrested and imprisoned (and probably wheelchair-bound for life), so there wouldn't have been any scope for having her in future films (as she's condemned to a fate which in her eyes is worse than death, hence her pleas for Batman to kill her). Also I'd have taken Vicki Vale out of the film. The final draft handled the duality of Batman better and the Batman/Bruce-Catwoman/Selina dynamic was treated with far more comic book accuracy and respect than Sam Hamm's draft. I'll end by saying that it's a damn shame Sam Hamm's first draft of B89 was butchered in the was it was. Don't get me wrong, B89 is fun. But Hamm's first draft from October '86 is superior in every conceivable way. Three years later, however, Burton definitely redeemed himself by ditching Hamm's original plans for the sequel.

1:05 "Heel turn" my guy is a wrestling fan 😂😂😂

i gotta be honest, this original draft sounds so much better than what we got.

This sounds like an Indiana Jones movie with the treasure in the batcave

I enjoyed it as is, though I think it was just too "sexy" for certain audiences. I think it should have been a trilogy though

3:37 Gee TMNT merch? They predicted Batman vs TMNT!

I'm good with Batman Returns. What I'm not good with is everything after Returns pre-Nolan reboot. I'd much rather have had Tim Burton create Batman Continues vs..... Batman Forever.

I like many elements of the original script. But the climax seems weak. But probably would have been better than what we got. I never knew that they gave Burton more lattitude on the 2nd film, but it makes sense. Too many weird touches like the killer penguins. Both scripts had Batman's identity being exposed which I don't like. He's supposed to be so smart and so secretive yet in almost every Batman movie someone learns that he's Bruce Wayne.

Great breakdown, I knew Burton talked his way into complete creative control but had no idea a full script had been written. And yes absolutely when a studio buys a script but elements that aren't used always find their way into other scripts. Best example the alien hybrid from Alien Resurrection was written for one of the versions of Alien 3. But that said I very much agree this version of Batman Returns isn't great as it has why too much going on and yes the villains are weak all things considered and given how bad the performance was I didn't want to see more of Vicky Vale. Even though it is dark and controversial we got the better deal with Burton's version because it is memorable whereas the original is not.

Keaton got to make out with Kim and Michelle. How lucky is he???

Love the thumbnail

Batman Returns is perfect the way it is

This plot seems all over the place but Vicki fights off Catwoman… oh how I would have loved to see this!

It has been years ago at this point, but I remember reading the Sam Hamm script. From what I recall, as others have mentioned, overall it was a more linear and direct sequel, with a more robust narrative connection to the first film. It didn't seem better or worse to me, just different. Burton's Batman Returns, while narratively flawed in places, for me personally it's not as dry as Hamm's draft (I don't mean that as a criticism... there's just a different tone to it). Another commenter mentioned this, but I look at Burton's sequel more as a psychological study of Batman, with Penguin as the monster side of Bruce Wayne, Catwoman as the secret alter-ego, and Shreck as the businessman. I'm glad that Hamm had the opportunity to do the recent Batman '89 comic series, but it's odd as presented-as it's not really a "what we would've gotten." Without the Burton director filter-it would be more aptly titled "Sam Hamm's Batman" or something to that effect.

I just read the whole script and although there were some great ideas there were also a lot of cliche and cringy elements such as Penguin’s release from jail and all of Catwoman’s dialogue. It’s also interesting to know that Catwoman was supposed to be Tia Carrere, Penguin was Tim Curry and Robin was Edward Furlong.

I imagine the red beret vigilante group is based on Curtis Sliwa snd the NY Guardian Angels mixed with the Sons of Batman from TDKR.

This Script might be fine too.. but DeVito/Keaton/Pfeiffer's partnership on Batman Returns cast was awesome! Hard to Choose which Batman's movie was the best..

As a fan of your channel and your voice, I'm now curious of your age. You said Batman Returns was the first movie you were disappointed by in cinemas, meaning you probably would have had to be at least like 10 years old or something in 1992, making you at least 41 years old now? But you sound like you're in your early 20's