Another way to look at it is how many years between Premierships. And Hawthorn comes out on top again. They have won a Premiership, on average, every 7.62 years. Carlton and Collingwood are second, every 7.94 years and Richmond are 4th, every 8.92 years. This goes all the way down to St Kilda at 127 years, having won just won since inception. Whatever way you look at it, Hawks are simply the best - stats don't lie.
I think averaging ladder positions could also be another way of looking at it. I'm a Hawthorn supporter but Geelong, for example, have only missed out on finals 3 times in the past 20 years, whereas Hawthorn have missed out on I think 10. So even though teams like Hawthorn have been more successful with winning flags in that time, Geelong have been by far and away the most consistent team in the comp, which I think should also be considered when determining how successful they've been overall.
@@jackj9070 I’d argue that being at the top without winning premierships is not “success”. It’s definitely a good achievement for a club to always be competitive, however ultimately it comes down to being able to win flags.
@@afltube Yeah that's fair, it just comes down to how you define success (which you definitely did at the start of the video). I personally just like to think there are more factors that define a successful team than just winning flags, such as winning minor premierships or even just simply making finals. I can see you point though, since winning flags is ultimately what every team is fighting for. So with that said, still really enjoyed the video!
@@afltube One problem or relying on just premierships is, or another is that some clubs may win GFs, but not actually win the most games in that season... the most obvious illustration of this is 1916, when only 4 clubs competed, and Fitzroy finished 4th with 2 wins, and Carlton were minor premiers with 10 wins... There being a final 4 series in 1916, Fitzroy qualified, and went on the win the flag, but still had less than half the wins of Carlton. In those early years, the minor premier would sometimes have the same number of wins than the premiers (after the finals)... With the demise of the challenge finals after 1930, it is easier to follow for the number of wins... the following years were seasons where the premiers were equal in wins with another club (E) or had less wins (L) 1932 (E), '36 (E), '45 (L), '48 (L), '53 (E), '58 (L), '65 (E), '66 (E), ' 70 (L), '77 (L), '81 (E), '83 (E), '91 (L), '97 (E), '98 (E, not with MP), 2003 (L), '05 (L), '09 (L), '11 (E), '12 (E), '16 (E), '18 (E). Making a final, or a grand final is one thing, but winning one, sometimes takes an ounce more of luck than skill... remember the 2010 first GF... the bounce of the ball. It could also be argued that clubs that make finals regularly across the history or the competition (like Collingwood, 85 years out of 128 seasons - 66.4%) or of the club (like West Coast 25 out of 38 seasons - 65.8%), are the most successful across their history, rather than in the more recent history... Hawthorn have played 100 V/AFL seasons, yet have made finals in only 36 of those seasons - 36%... Hawthorn's first final was in their 23rd season (1957) and their first GF was 1961... but their real success did not begin until the mid 70s, about 50 years after they joined the league. Someone once said that there are three kinds of lies - Lies, damned lies and statistics.
I think we need to look at the years that no Grand Finals were played and just giving to the team on top like Essendon with 4 this is another way to look at it. And you have done a fantastic job with this table 😊
How about countering the number of flags with wooden spoons? (Sorry saints). But surely if a club was great for a long period, top 4 or so for a decade, they are better than a flash in the pan premiership?
So much technically for debatable answers. The answer is hands down Collingwood. Most supporters, best win percentage and by miles the most grand finals.
@@wheezywill9154 well look at them compared to north melbourne. people like winning teams. it’s a side metric which adds to the main. why would you ask with such vitriol?
Hawthorn, Geelong, West Coast. As the title of the video suggests, no one gives a toss about the VFL. Winning a flag with a grand total of 8 teams in the competition is nothing to crow about.
Why do you want to start counting premierships from 1990 when the competition consisted of exactly the same teams in 1989 except just a different name?
@@fraserhood160 unfortunately that would be unfair, in that on that basis the Brisbane Lions would have had two of their own teams competing for premierships from 1987-1996. However that does not mean the club should not celebrate Fitzroy’s premierships, as it is still one aspect of the club’s story.
The best way at doing this is basing success on centuries (100 Years) Last Century 1897 to 1999 - Carlton Blues Current Century 2000 to 2024 - Geelong Cats No need to make up your own system of rules to qualify who you think is the most successful. Its not actually hard to figure out.
1897-1999 is 103 years not 100. 2000-2023 is 24 years not a 100. That doesn’t seem like a very fair way of doing it considering firstly: teams joined the competition half way through these ‘centuries’. Such as West Coast who won 2 premierships in the last ‘century’ but were simultaneously only in it for 13 years. Had they been in it for as long as Carlton, they could have won more than them. Also just to nitpick, Hawthorn have actually won the same amount of premierships as Geelong in the current ‘century’ so you should actually have them listed as equal. But secondly: how can you say Geelong (and Hawthorn) being the most successful team(s) across 24 years is equal to Carlton being the most successful team across 103 years?? And finally: why don’t you start centuries at other points? Such as the century starting in 1925 and ending in 2024 where Hawthorn have won the most? This really doesn’t make much sense at all.
@@billyallsop2506 The league doesn't reset just because a new team enters the competition. History has always been written. Adding a new side doesn't take away glory from previous clubs. So far this century or new millennium, which hasn't finished yet, is led by Hawthorn and Geelong with 4 Flags each. If we want to scale who was the most successful last century, its Carlton with 16 cups pre 2000.
Problem is to not include someone like portadelaide as being the most successful club is forgetting their champions of Australia record now u can say it's not the same competition but they beat the vfl ect head to head along with being the only tem to go undefeated against every sanfl team and win the premiership then stay undefeated against every state team and then verse an Australia team undefeated
No doubt Port Adelaide is a great club which has had great success in the SANFL, however it's hard to include success that wasn't in the VFL/AFL when measuring something like this. Although I agree with you in the sense that a supporter of an old Victorian club should not brag to Port Adelaide about being more 'successful', because that would be quite ignorant haha.
Hahaha.... premierships outside of the vfl/afl don't count! That's because Victorians think they're the be all and end all of sport in Australia.... sorry, us Port supporters don't agree.
Ok So in 150+years The Collingwood Football Club has made the Grand Final 43 times Which is the most by far Which also means Pies fans throughout time have been the happiest meaning despite the loss grand finals the next week Collingwood fans were happiest the longest throughout the season So successful year in my opinion You just lost the grand final Maybe I just see success different to you Ps I hate Collingwood I’m a LIONS🦁 supporter
Enjoyed you video, Would love to see you do the same options with the AFL only time frame as I am a Western Australian and I am only interested when Westcoast joined the competition and In my opinion is when the AFL really started. I had no interest in the VFL didn't even know what team were playing in the VFL before the 1987 date. No disrespect to the VFL but for me it does not count. So please do it again from either 1987 or 1990 when I believe the name changed. Thanks for your video I did enjoy it.
South Melbourne's flags were added to Sydney's flags, although I didn't include Fitzroy's flags to Brisbane's as the Brisbane Lions are the result of a merger, and are hence a different club to Fitzroy, as opposed to South Melbourne who simply relocated to Sydney.
@@daniellebcooper7160 that's what you said last time genius comment maker. Blues bombers and magpies have 16 premiership wins lololololol. Now you can't rewrite history dude now learn to cope and here's your 😆😁😄😃😀😂🙂🙃😉😆😁😄😃😀😆😉
There is some cherry picking of data in this video to make a point. Take Brisbane for instance he is saying that the Brisbane LIONS have been in the competition since 1997 which is technocally true. But it ignores the fact that the two merger teams that came together (Fitzroy lions and the Brisbane BEARS) were both in the VFL/ AFL before 1997. So by virtually all the formulas in the video they should rank significantly lower. Yet he specifically includes when Sydney Swans were in the VFL as South Melbourne. I would also say that the simplicity of the expected premiership percentage is flawed too since apart from covid affected years, the grand final is always held in Victoria. Giving effective home ground advantage to any Victorian team against any Non Victorian team and hence weights the probability in their favour. Not the worst analysis video, but could be better.
The difference between Brisbane and Sydney is that the swans are ONE club that simply relocated to Sydney, which is completely different to TWO clubs merging to form a new singular club. As for the Grand Final being in Melbourne every year, you can argue that it's an unfair system, and no doubt the AFL is unfair in many ways, but ultimately the team that wins the premiership is the team with the success.
You can polish a turd all day, and maybe even get it to shine..but its still a turd. You've really polished the hwaks here. The only stat's that count are..games won. Grandfinal appearances and flags.. from day dot till now. any further debate is polishing.. deep down we all know Collingwood is the most successful club.
The only stat that counts is Flags, games won and Grand Final appearances only matter as they increase a club's chances of winning a premiership. Yes, Collingwood has 16 premierships (like Carlton and Essendon), although how can these clubs be undeniably better than clubs like Hawthorn or West Coast who have won more flags during their time in the competition?
@@SonGoku-n9l those are the clubs with 16 premierships, yes, but you can’t say that those clubs have definitively been more successful than some of the other clubs who joined the competition later.
Finding out the most successful AFL team would be good. Not including VFL. I think including collingwood’s vfl premierships pre-amalgamation of vfa and vfl mean that they are also advantaged over those vfa teams. I think AFL is AFL. Not SANFL, WAFL, VFL or VFA. I think in AFL Hawthorn comes on top with a 3-way tie for 2nd from memory.
The rules for premierships, appearances and wins, was incredibly wonky in the early years of the VFL. I can't remember any examples, but it was like automatic qualification if you were last year's premiers or something. They perhaps shouldn't count either.
Probably the newest most successful club is the GWS. Maybe they haven't got a premiership yet but they've been so close so many times and made it to their first finals in their 4 years in the AFL, but sadly lost to Bulldogs in the Prelim by a close game.
@@theoneweekwonder the Brisbane Lions were not “already in it as the Brisbane Bears”, the Brisbane Bears merged with Fitzroy to create a new club as a combination of the two. Even if they didn’t get many Fitzroy players (as the Bears were much better than Fitzroy at the time) it would still be unfair to consider it the same club.
@@afltube basically the same club though. Don't know how you think it isn't. Brisbane played in Brisbane still play in Brisbane what makes them different as a merged team with Fitzroy ?
If people want to count the VFL premierships in option 1 then they also need to count the SANFL premierships, which means Port has double the amount of any of the top Vic teams
