Hopefully you enjoyed this one, it was a super cool opportunity to talk with one of the folks responsible for my personal favorite bike. Let me know if you'd like to see more interviews on the channel!
Hey spite! I saw you today around Austin on my Ktm 1290. Super cool meeting you man! It’s wild to see someone you watch so much in the wild! Big fan of the content man keep it up!
1. That guy is WAY cooler than any of the HD dealership salesmen I've ever come across. 2. I hope he and others that work with him read these comments.. I own an Indian Scout bobber, I bought it because I didn't care for any offering from HD at the time, and I'm thinking my next bike will be an FTR. If you launch the Bronx, there is a very high likelihood that next bike goal changes in your favor
I went with the FTR Rally as my first Indian and it's become my favorite bike I've owned, and I've owned at least one of everything in my 25 years of riding. I have beat the ever living sh*t out of that bike and it won't break. If you're a fan of the look (who isn't?) you start to wonder "where's the catch?" - something I still don't have an answer to after a putting 28k on the bike so far. I can confidently say that you will love the bike.
I used to have a scout bobber. Such a fun bike. I miss it at times. I sold it for a low rider st. I love both bike. I really want a challenger some day.
'if you have a problem we'll take care of it and fix it" My experience has been INCREDIBLY different. I fought with moco for a year to get my Pan Am fixed and lost all confidence in them. The easy obvious problems, yeah they took care of. But when it got a bit more difficult they didnt do a thing, they left the dealer clueless untill i sent a lawsuit their way..
I am going to share my Pan America store of love and loathing. I bought 2021 PAS with laced wheels and ARH in October of 2021. Problem started immediately. Rear shock was leaking. Repaired. Bike experienced starting issues in cold temp. Never resolved even with multiple dealership trips. Dead bike, no screen no start. Turned out to be the ambient air temp sensor. Resolved. Summer came, no issues and performed flawlessly, when it actually started. Fall rolls in, 3,400 painful miles later the ARH began to malfunction and the codes and fault lights never stopped. The dealer and I finally came to an agreement and I no longer own the PAS. It is very unfortunate too because when the ran without fault it was the best bike I ever had. I just hope in the coming generations will be trouble free. In the mean time I am enjoying a Fat Bob 114.
@@crazycooter1510 my early 22 PAS only had electrical issues before they did a system update on the 5,000 mile maintenance visit. Now it is perfect. I absolutely love it.
Man, I love to see where you are going. This is bad ass that you are able to get an interview of this kind. I'm stoked to see how much your channel has grown.
Awesome interview. HD did a great job with the Pan America and the Rev Max platform. I hope they build a whole line of a variety of bikes on the Rev Max, specifically a lightweight sport tourer!
I really wanted this bike to be reliable and for HD to stand by their product because I love the styling and features, but so many people have described issues they’ve had that it made it difficult to trust this bike up until now. I am hearing less complaints about the 2022/2023 models so I hope they finally have a product out there people can feel good about. It’s definitely awesome that you got a corporate interview from one of the most popular motorcycle brands though. 👍🏾 If I was able to ask a HD rep one question, it would be “provide me some good reasons why someone should buy this bike at this price point over the BMW R1250GS or Honda Africa Twin?”
many years ago I was debating buying a Lotus Esprit or an Acura NSX. Both cars are similar in handling, speed, and configuration. Both were priced similarly. A friend of mine said, the NSX is a great car, but at the end of the day, it's still a Honda Civic... So, I bought the Lotus. This was terrible advice. The Lotus is troublesome, requires constant maintenance, and has British wiring that may work one day and not the next for no particular reason. Buy the Africa Twin, at the end of the day, it's a Civic, but, it's going to be reliable like a Civic, it's going to start up every time like a Civic. It's going to run even poorly maintained like a Civic. The Harley is going to look great, and if you give it constant attention, it'll probably work most of the time. It's also gonna command the parts price premiums the Lotus does, while the Civic is repairable with zipties, a 10mm wrench, and a random part from Autozone. But damn if that Lotus doesn't look gorgeous setting on the lift in my garage...
@@firefighter1c57This is especially true in the adventure bike space. You need to rely on a bike you're going to take off the beaten path. It's one thing when your bike won't start for Bike Night or a trip to Starbucks, another when it strands you on a BDR.
@@firefighter1c57 Too funny. Faced with the same decision in '00, I bought a '95 Esprit S4s. It was quite good but definitely required a pro-active owner. They were owned by GM at the time so most (all?) of the electronics were Delco and never gave me any trouble. I did a lot myself but my mechanic was Ralph Stechow, possibly the best Esprit guy in the country. Owned it for 6 years and put 30k on it. Later, a friend bought a very clean NSX. Neat but ... boring. He didn't keep it very long.
Love your videos Spite! Glad you kept going after your unceremonious dismissal from the other channel. You're depth of knowledge and genuine love of motorcycles is transparent in every video!
I brought a Pan Am in March 2023, the 2022 Army green model, it is fantastic, I'm riding it pretty much every day, most of the riding is commuting in the city, Melbourne Australia, and I have taken it off road, which I was surprised how good it was in rough conditions. The bar protectors were the first thing to be replaced with Barkbusters, I've dropped it on the dirt a few times, and I'm glad I replaced the stupid standard bar protectors, because I would have broken leavers without the upgrade. I extended the front mud guard too and replaced the crash plate. I'm impressed with the standard crash bars, they do a fantastic job at protecting the tank from dings. Problems I've had are with the battery not liking to sit for a day, and giving me problems starting. The dealer thinks it is the starter clutch and is going to fit the upgraded starter clutch. The heater guard on the rear pipe could be larger and have more coverage, the back pipe was burning my leg through my jeans, I fixed it by wrapping the pipes. I would like it if the foot pegs were larger and mounted a bit lower, will have to go aftermarket for that.
If you buy a Pan Am, make sure you have a local HD dealer you can depend on. The ones in my area are terrible and give no confidence that they will do right by their customers. I've owned 4 Harleys, but after buying a Pan Am and dealing with lack of dealer support when issues do come up, I've lost confidence in the brand. Fun bike when it works
A "massive dealer network" where 3/4's of the mechanics are not qualified to work on this model.... esp the electronics... Step it up Harley it's great that you stand behind the product but it doesn't mean anything when you are dead on the side of the road and if anything is making me hesitant to buy one with the electronic glitches being reported.
This guy is truly professional, I totally fell in love with the design and new tech of the PAS that led me sold my GSA 1250 2020 for PAS 2021. I had to bring it to dealer more than 5 times to fix some issues, the last visit I had to wait for 1 month because of a part was unavailable. I don't know if he Kyle could read this but I hope HD should have fixed and improved all the issues concerned, also reduce the heat from the exhaust header from the right side, its like the hell hot.
I have a early 21 PA special and I love the bike. But it the most unreliable bike I have ever owned by far. It's last visit to the dealer for the throttle sticking open at 4000rpm's took a month and the HD traveling tech to get straitened out. The only way HD can cover the people who bought an early PA is give them another two year on their warranty. As I write this the bike is back at the dealer with electrical problems, I have had over 21 problems with the bike in 12,000mi . I really hope HD can get their act together and take care of the customers. This sucks, because when it's running right is a fantastic bike!
I love that you talk about all kinds of motorcycles instead of just SPORT BIKES NAKED BIKES everyday all year. Lol theres more to riding than inline 4's and eye-watering speed and your channel captures that well
Thanks for asking questions about a smaller mid-size engine. It sounds like they are going to work around the new Revmax engine and its components rather than work on another smaller engine design. This means that a smaller displacement variant will be roughly the same size and weight as the 1252cc version.
Not all customers are “different” than your usual customer. I just traded a CVO Limited Road Glide with only 10K on it to get a Pan America Special. Put a couple hundred miles on this in two days. I can say I am really excited this bike is just what I needed. Yes I am 65 and some say I am insane for taking this vs the keeping the Road Glide Limited. No not really , great power , great handling , lots of tech, great wind protection and fuel economy. The design and aesthetics are unique and fantastic. The weight is fantastic and this bike is really nimble. No more wrestling with a 1000lb bike to get the wind in my face. Yes you converted this old guy and I am adding all the great accessories. The water cooled is way nicer to ride even with 90 deg ambient temps no issues like the air cooled engine roasting your legs not issues with the Pan America. That motor is only second place to the V-Rod motor of which I also own a Muscle.
I have a 2022. I love it, but it has not been trouble-free. It's been back to the dealer 3 times for non-service issues. It's died while riding 4-5 times with the screen going black. The screen has cut out on me another 4-5 times with the bike still running. In both cases, the bike resets after 10-15 minutes, and you can drive away. While I'm hopeful the tech issues will be sorted over time with software updates, my main complaint is that Harley techs are taking a while to become familiar with the bike. My dealer has nearly 20 techs on staff, but only 2 work on the Revolution motor. Right now, it feels like a work in progress, and hopefully Harley will continue investing in the platform. All of that said, I'd still buy this bike again over a GS. At least with the Pan America, you can still get access to a service manual.
I went with the GS for the crankshaft and reliability (and because around me there’s plenty of BMW service compared to HD), but I tried the panam and it’s a really nice bike. I especially liked the automated height adj it was unobtrusive
The blank screen was fixed in an update from last October, sounds like some updates are needed, it happened to me once, I installed the update and has never happened again, hope you get it sorted out.
Ask him to look into why my Harley Pan America keeps dying on the highway almost getting me killed 3 times. It’s at Harley getting looked at for the 5th time and this is getting annoying. Love the bike, love it, but I got a lemon. Harley Ref# available if he needs it.
I have many major issues with mine. Absolute lemon. But they refuse to honor the law without lawsuit. They lost all my trust and confidence. Once I get rid of mine, I’ll never buy a Harley again just because of how they are treating me.
That my friend, is a major coup of an interview. Recognition like that from the motor company who recognizes no one and getting the head engineer of the Pan America project, which you love? Huge. Especially for a noob like you:)
@@mathewkendell9056 You always hear horror stories about HD dealerships in the US, and the standard advice is to call HD directly and they will usually "straighten it out." They definitely have a quality control issue. I think they're mostly stuck between a rock and a hard place, as a large part of their customer base is the rough around the edges tough guy biker crowd...these people aren't exactly known for stellar customer service. I will say though, with 600 dealerships, it's probably difficult to make sure all of them are operating ethically.
Hey Kyle, don't forget to build the Bronx for us. Keep the price reasonable. Oh yeah, and make it look nice from the left hand side. You can do it Kyle :)
Absolutely love my 21. It's the best handling bike I've ever owned and I have owned a lot in my 30 years of riding. Sport bikes, touring bikes, adventure bikes-the PA is all three. It had a couple issues when it was new, all taken care of by HD and a better battery. Over 2 years and 25k miles with no issues. I love my HD!
The dealer network, amazing as it is, shouldn't be the fallback for the shortcomings of a brand new bike. It seems like HDs R&D dept shoved it out the door and said "yeah, that's good enough. we'll let the customers iron out the details"
Great interview! Great interview location. Water cooled motorcycles are essential before zero emissions laws kill off ICE. 8:50 Benchmarking the competition. Many manufacturers just distribute a "white paper" written by internal or external sources outside the design team. Managers love to insist on changes to prove how important they are. Lean manufacturers have the engineers for that module (chassis, brakes, suspension) do the teardown for their module. They are the ones who really need the knowledge to design the best product.
I got to ride the Pan Am at Get On fest and I was so surprised at how well it handled off road. I got to ride with Justin through sand, fast off road, and intermediate two-track and it handled so well. This is coming from someone with just 6-months of riding experience who owns a KTM 390 ADV. I'm really not into the HD as a brand or the big chrome potato bikes but I had to admit the PA was a technical marvel and a great bike. I am not looking at buying a PA because of the size and cost - more looking into mid-size ADVs - but they really did a great job. Would love to have it in my garage if I had the cash and would seriously consider a midsize with similar tech.
How naive of you to assume other brands aren't exactly the same...I mean...do you actually think they're doing you a favor making bikes for you?...any brand that doesn't think about business first doesn't last, just look at all those old Italian bike brands who went bankrupt only to be bought-out by Chinese corporations...is that what you want to see happening to HD? The Japanese giants? Triumph? KTM? (etc. etc.)
@@guyh282 pretty sure HD is the only large motorcycle company that was so worried about the growing popularity of Japanese motorcycles, they cried to the Reagan admin to attempt to corner the market in their favor. Scummy business practices from a scummy manufacturer. As someone else in the comments said before, they let their customers do their R&D after they've already sold their product.
I waited for a few years for this after the talk started. If it had come out before I retired I would have had one out of General Principles. It's an awesome flagship bike where I love my KLR because I don't have to feel bad about backflipping down a hill, endoing etc. Two weeks after buying my brand new KLR I was hosing it down with krylon and slapping on some Etsy decals. Crush the rear sub frame get some sch120 9chrome and the bender.
They had to build the pan Am to introduce the rev max engine. ADV riders doesn't care about "heritage" and old air cooled pushrod engines. That's where they went wrong with the V-rod. Once the engine is "out" they can put it in other bikes too.
They have the X350 for rider training but won't put it on the showroom floor. So there's still no entry level affordable HD for young folks. Get a clue HD.
Oh yes making a new motorcycle is such big risk for a multi-billion dollar motorcycle company with many fulltime engineers, OH my what a massive risk that would be. The pan America was the safest choice for a new bike they could have possibly made.
I test rode one and was very impressed. I really wanted a Pan America but waiting a few years to see if they get all the bugs worked out but seems that hasn't "panned" out. There are folks who have ridden all over the North and South American continents without any problems (or they didn't report any due to being sponsored by HD). Read the blogs, watched the videos and seems more have issues while a few never have any. Think I will get a Honda CB500X (since it has a solid reputation behind it and great price point), gain some experience, then go from there. I currently have a HD SGS that is great for long distance on the highways (not getting rid of it) but really want something smaller and lighter for those mountain roads, country roads and dirt roads.
Late to the game is an understatement.... But then again the neo retro bikes are very big now and essentially Harley's are the ultimate neo retro. I mean if they had carburetors it would be legit a 40-year-old motorcycle. Especially ones with Evo engines. I mean those are f****** literally 1980s machines so you really can't go more old school than a Harley essentially. But then again the European companies in Japanese companies are pretty damn good at building retro bikes. Well pretty damn good at building all bikes
I’m having non stop issues with mine. They won’t do anything unless you have the dough to file a lawsuit. That’s what I’m stuck with. I have to save up 5-10k for retainer fees just so I can get a REFUND for mine. Insane. They know people can’t afford a lawsuit and are betting on people just giving up and selling their bike instead.
Seriously would love to see a Harley-Davidson 1250 revmax streetfighter hooligan style bike bronx or another. Something that is comparable and competitive with the Indian FTR1200
Great interview. I have ridden two 1200 Super Teneres, an old 750 Super Tenere, a VStrom 1000 and a couple of KLRs more than 150,000 miles combined over the past 10 years. My '23 PAS if the most remarkable machine that I have ridden. GS-level performance and Multistrada-class power. Still do a double-take each time I notice the H-D logo. Does anyone know if and where it might be possible to buy that shirt the H-D guy was wearing. Subtle "Different by Design" on the front?
The PA is one of the couple bikes I’ve narrowed down I want to buy. My friend not sticking point with it is I’m short and worried the seat might be too tall. Do know the special has the lowering feature. Hopefully will be test riding a 21 special at my local dealership. Would be cool to see a 975 adv bike. Know the engine can shrink with nightster 975. Could possibly compete with the 890 adventure or tiger 900.
If only HD put the same energy into ensuring the QA at the PanAm Factory was satisfactory.. Too many folks experiencing pinched wiring, connectors not properly connected, miss-threated bolts/nuts - and then there's the inadequately trained techs on the PanAm at dealerships. And then the inadequate/unreliable BT connectivity with the bike and the HD phone App and with no provision to connect a proper GPS and use the bike's audio functionality. If this sounds like a whine, then bring in owners that have been left stranded on the side of the road because of poor QA at the Factory (nothing to do with being a 1st time model, just poor workmanship) and paying a premium price for average BT functionality.
Man I really want them to come out with the Bronx. Naked bikes are so popular, if they want to attract the younger crowd (which they need to start looking at) they need a reasonably lightweight hooligan machine that's cost-competitive with the MT09/Z900 platform. There's nothing like that from an American brand right now.
Hey Spite, You ever watch the show 'Vikings', specifically that scene where Ragnar meets his now-grown-up son, and says "Well, who's this chunk of meat?" I thought exactly the same thing when I saw you sitting on that rock with your orange race shirt on. It's the first us viewers have seen how big your frame is man, comparatively. You're a right big dude man.
You definitely seem to have a hard-on for the Pan America; I'm amazed that you haven't gone and sold or traded your Ducati and KLR and obtained one of these. We all only get one life to live, and years spent on the wrong bike are something we never get back. As much as you fixate on this bike, you really owe it to yourself to shit or get off the pot. I'm personally really skeptical of the PanAm. Particularly the choice to put a ride-height reducer onto a fugging ADV bike. Strikes me as a dumbshit move and a great way to get high centered in soft stuff, especially if it malfunctions. Then again, I'm also skeptical of most of the ADV bikes that put out over 100hp; the suspension design to support 150hp on the street is totally different than the suspension design to support 50mph off-road or to do 15mph through a rock garden or series of ledges. Those two designs don't coexist. Goes right with tire spec, too. Applying 150hp to Michelin Anakee Wilds or Continental TKC 80's is asinine. Same applies to taking a sport touring tire on the SOCAL BDR. All of this is why the ADV segment is ditching the liter-plus bikes. The Yamaha T7 and the Aprilia Tuareg weigh less than the great-grandaddy that started all this, the BMW R80GS, and put out way more power. No one would dare say the R80 or R100 GS bikes are insufficiently powerful to do the jobs they have done historically, but they put out 50hp for the R80 and 60hp for the R100. I can't help but believe that HD screwed the pooch on the PanAm. This was their chance to put out something sub-liter displacement and sell it to an enthusiastic market that isn't all about noise and wasted displacement. It's easier to build competent suspension the lighter something is. No one complains that 75-100hp is insufficient for the ADV segment. This is what the leading bikes are targeting. Ducati's Desert X, KTM890, Tiger 900, T7, Tuareg.
Valid points, but I will add that if the ARH malfunctions it defaults to full height by design and you lose no ground clearance, can also easily be turned off in modes.
I have a sportster s and all the electronic problems that people talk about on the pan am rear their ugly heads on the sportser s, and the dealer has little to no support for the new engine. I live in a major metropolitan area too. I like the bike, but i wouldn't buy it again.
I live in east Europe and I like this bike a lot. There are not many HD dealers dealers here and reliability is a big concern. This guy talked but haven't sad anything. The real question is what exactly they changed on PA from its first release until today. Did they addressed problems like weak headlight, burning exhaust pipe, electronic problems and in what way? What happens if my bike in warranty leaves me stranded in other country? I would be much happier if he told us real life stuff instead of this diplomatic small talk.
Add this comment: I have a’21 special. It’s fine that the Harley rep says we stand behind our product. That’s fine if you are still under warranty and repairs are free. I have still been stranded, trailered, and without use for weeks while I make payments. ALSO, your dealer is critical. 600 dealer network doesn’t mean anything if they don’t know how to work on the bike. Fortunately my service manager owns one and he keeps mine running. This is my 6th and last Harley.💩
I became interested in the PA when I realized there is more than asphalt to explore in my future. I currently ride and love my Road Glide, but can see myself getting into dirt roads and gravel more in the future (likely 85% asphalt and the remaining 15% wherever I feel comfortable in the bikes capabilities coupled with my minimal off highway skills). That said, I hold back from the PA for a few reasons. One of course is the gripes on reliability and lack of technicians to handle failures. The other reasons are investment and value concerns. Trade in value of the PA does not look promising, nor does trust in HDs commitment to this platform in the future. At best I'd say the bike is an initial cost for an unknown future. Each individual needs to consider their sense of investment and future potential of return. Without hearing HDs solid commitment to the PAs future, I remain hesitant.
Yes, investment. Investment is what you are willing to give for a return. Admittedly, motorcycles depreciate in general.., the return I'm speaking of is satisfaction and value. The question is what are you willing to invest to gain something positive, whether it be fun, satisfaction, etc.. Returns on a vehicle investment is always an exchange for what you are willing to pay to get the value back in something you want in exchange (fun, adventure, freedom on the road, etc). I think my point in my initial comment would be: Is Pan America ownership going to provide my expected return or will it be a disappointment. Clearly different bikes provide various levels of satisfaction for money invested.
@@markarmantrout646 Adventure Touring bikes tend to see a lot of miles since they are designed for long distances and to be used on any road. Cruisers get dusty because they only come out on nice days. The value of a motorcycle are the miles you put on it not how much you can sell it for.
@@JayBee-cr8jm We don't necessarily disagree, we are just getting to the end with different logic. Now that we have gone full circle, my point is the Pan America long term dependability is unproven (only 3 yrs in production). I did mention that I ride a Harley and have put down lots of miles on my Road Glide. I remain loyal to the brand, but have seen them venture into new areas and just suddenly drop the floor out from it (Buell and V-Rod are good examples). I hope HD makes the long term commitment and doesn't sell it out as a bad investment (there is that word again..., lol).
@@markarmantrout646 The V-Rod ran for 18 years. Buell ran for 17 years. The V-Rod was exceptionally reliable from the very start. I can't think of any known issues with them. Buells issues revolved primarily around the H-D engines he was using. How do you fault Buell when it was H-D who was sending him engines with bad crankshafts? No other company on Earth can build the exact same motorcycle for 18 strait years. Imagine going to a Ford dealer and picking up a brand new 2005 Ford Escort wagon. Regardless, I hardly think that whatever you are currently riding has been in production that long. Do you plan on waiting 22 years before buying something with a Milwaukee 8 on it? Maybe you plan on riding your Pan-head until they work the kinks out of the shovel-head?
So they built a Japanese metric cruiser basically same with Indian. They're even worse because of the liquid cooling and basically giving us a shadow made in America. I mean Japanese companies have been making liquid cooled overhead cam high revving v twin cruisers for like 35 years. Why is it so amazing now?
I wanted to like the pan am so bad. I test rode one the other day and the throttle feel was hot garbage. Dealbreaker before I got out of the parking lot.
Both the dealer and the motor company were no help fixing my two Pan Americas, could not fix either one, and ended up buying them both back. Bought nothing but Harleys for 20 years and the way the dealer and Corporate treated me, with all the problems I had on both Pan Americas I will probably never buy a Harley again.
@@mototx752 1st had the engine, wiring harness & BCM replaced, still not fixed. The second one, everything else was all electrical or the electronic suspension.
Kind of what I expected, wasn't allowed to answer any good questions or avoided answer criticism directly. Felt like I gained almost nothing from this. :/
I just don't get HD, the PanAm is about the only thing they have done different. Okay in fairness they're starting on the EV stuff too but they seem obsessed with flogging the dead horse of cruisers & bikes that are ugly like trains... They should look into doing decent nakeds, sports bikes, smaller engined stuff too & not raping they're customers for old tech. I appreciate they're heritage & quality but it's extortionately priced for old tech and will be taking advantage even more when they build more abroad.
Love your content but I don't see myself warming up to the Revmax engine. I Love the Harleys AND Japanese bikes but if I'm going to buy an engine that looks and sounds Japanese I'll just go ahead and buy the Japanese bike at Japanese prices.
I know Harley purists will probable scream and howl at me, but they need to get behind a whole plethora of motorcycles based around the liquid cooled revmax platform engine, even in smaller and or larger capacities.
