Yeah but if you like his content then let him make his money or just use an Adblock. If you are so lazy that you can’t even use Adblock then you have no right to complain.
I know the Hur'q invasion of Qronos probably took place during the Klingon medieval age or something, but I do like to imagine an 'Independence Day' style conflict as Klingon jetfighters duel'd with Hur'q spacecraft that tried to operate in the atmosphere. That or I just would love to see a Klingon F-35.
Given that Qo'nos as a planet was already unified into a single planetary government by the time of the Hur'q invasion, debatably Qo'nos was already in its early industrial period. So less "Independence Day" and more "War of the Worlds." Now just imagining Steampunk Klingons.
Fun Fact: The reason the Prime Directive is a thing in Star Trek is because Gene Roddenberry was very critical of the Vietnam War. The brutality of the war led him to believe that no good could ever come from interfering in the affairs of another nation, especially less developed ones, and that a more enlightened society would generally leave other civilizations alone.
Which is absurd even as a premise. We have literal GENOCIDE in our world heck there is more then one ongoing right this second. According to Roddenberry's mindset allowing genocide to occur just because is allowable as long as it is done by ones own state. That is not even getting into the fact that it assumes all races will follow the same path of progress. God forbid the Federation meet a race with everything they have being 2 centuries ahead of the Federation but never bothered to develop a warp drive thanks to abundance in their system. I mean I get where the mindset comes from but it is a utopian one that has little connection to our imperfect world.
@@spartanonxy Interesting insights, but also a few, rather lengthy counter-points to bring up: 1. Lets get it out of the way that Star Trek is idealistic and that its whole point is to present a utopian vision, not necessarily a realistic one. Its nice to dream though. 2. If the Federation encounters a species with the same-tech level or better, then i'd assume the Prime Directive wouldnt be really applied even if they havent invented warp-travel because they are already near-equals or equals. Also, I do think Star Trek does show that species grow and develop in their own ways, though I agree it is a bit weird that they all develop the exact same tech. Then again, a lot of species in Star Trek are somehow all humanoids so it makes sense that they are similar....sooo ig don't dwell on all this too much? :P 3. Its ultimately a question of proximity. We care about issues such as genocides happening in our world because we are ALL the same species, sharing the SAME planet. Ofc we *have* to care. However, would we still care though about such issues if they were happening on another planet? on another star-system? to an alien species? 4. _According to Roddenberry's mindset allowing genocide to occur just because is allowable as long as it is done by ones own state..._ is it really so absurd? Are we not doing it even now? Many wars and conflicts are happening in the Middle East, Africa and many corners of the world today, yet we dont do much because "its their country" and 'their problems' to take care of. Most turn a blind eye to oppressions and attacks on minority populations by the state across many countries simply because it doesn't concern us or we dont care. Sure such things are condemned internationally but is much ever really being done to change it? Aren't we still allowing it to happen because we say its the purview of someone else and not our own?
@@justarandomcommenter570 So lets go with breaking them down. 1) yeah this one is fair but I myself prefer the more grounded versions of the show rather then TNG. 2) That is just it they treat the Prime directive as RELIGION as commands from on high with barely any exceptions. Because they specifically use warp travel to distinguish if a race is ready. And the vast majority of exceptions were made in borderline crisis situations. Overall I really do think the Federation if they found a species using a form of faster then light that is not warp by any definition would declare them to primitive to contact even if the form was better in every metric. Mind you I am talking TNG Federation there who are lets say ungrounded. 3) more or less fair there though I imagine in a time where said world might literally be a few days travel away would have a serious effect on what we consider proximity. We likely would care but it is questionable if enough. 4) This one is also fair.
@@spartanonxyI think the opposite of this view that you seem to be hard lining is just as bad as you make this view seem, but it really isn't. Name one time the USA getting into another nations business has been helpful aside from WW2 (which, mind you, nobody was aware of the extent of the holocaust or the Chinese atrocities or even that genocide was happening until post war)
@@Jiub_SN That is just it I don't advocate for the opposite. I am pointing out their system is honestly bad. In many ways it is worse then the systems we are dealing with today. I just simply think that there needs to be a rational discussion and that situations need to be judged less dogmatically. I am not for intervention in every case. Also Gulf War 1. Kuwait was invaded by Iraq. A series of finite goals were set and the war ended rapidly and saw the Kuwait nation have self governance restored. The cases where everything went wrong are more because constant mission creep and a attempt to make war "clean".
Something worth point out was that the prime directive can be suspended/has limitations: - when they received a call for help (Pen Pals. Every single time they responded to a distress call) - when a secret operation is sanctioned by the Federation Council or even just undertaken by a official secret agency of the Federation. - stuff like the Omega directive 9:40 No mention of "Who Watches The Watchers"? Picard was willing to die to undo accidental interference.
It also only applies to Starfleet itself, not to every Federation citizen. Lwaxana Troi pointed this out correctly to Picard once, when she interfered with Timicin and his people's forced euthanasia at 60.
@@Bruced82 There was a Season 1 Episode, "Angel One" where Data pointed out: "Not only were they not beholden to the prime directive, removing them now would be a violation of it."
The Prime Directive is proven junk. They do an episode convining otherwise and ill personally stand on street corners petitioning they get all the emmies or whatever. The reality is the prime directive makes sense in a fever dream version of critical thinking. It ignores facts of concequences, it abandons the few reasons wortg considering as soon as it is not longer applied to post warp civilizations... It is a harsh responce to arbitrary conditions due to vague philosophical concepts. It adds evidence some higher being is projecting a form of functional retardation.
@@christopherg2347 yeah, seems like its a lot more well thought out and works a lot more often than people give it credit for. Seems like people only remember when it fails
In Drumhead Picard mentions that he has violated the Prime Directive 9 times in his career (presumably including the Pen Pals incident) and has been cleared of wrongdoing. Makes it seem clear that the PD does have exceptions that can be applied on a case by case basis.
The best example of Klingon interference on pre-warp worlds was in the TOS episode "A Private Little War," in which on the planet Neural, the Klingons provided a village with flintlock muskets and set them on the Hill People.
@@tomhenry897 Serpents...Serpents for the Garden of Eden...the only way Kirk had of restoring balance between the two peoples. probably didnt work, but still...
They should have featured more examples of benevolently intended interference going wrong an early Trek. Like, a founding species of the Federation that did as much damage as the Klingons or the romulans while just trying to do good.
There's an episode of The Orville where they have a guest from a pre-warp world who keeps trying to take Union tech back home. The Union officers give just such an example of well intentioned interference having horrific results.
They reasons they gave were poor tho. Since the reason they gave was that the technology would be hoarded despite them beyond resource limitations and thus could just flood the market with technology to prevent any monopoly
I’d love to see a nerdy philosophical debate between Starfleet’s Prime Directive of non-interference and Spider-Man’s “with great power comes great responsibility.”
Spidey is native to, and lives within, the environment in which he operates. Prime Directive doesn't apply. If he traveled to an alien world and taught them how to make web fluid, then that's another matter.
That's actually an interesting philosophical point. It could probably be argued that knowing when not to interfere is precisely an example of exercising responsibility, the two positions are not fundamentally incompatible.
That's my thoughts as well. The idea of the prime directive is to get the captains that visit these places to take CAREFUL steps and to not develop godhood or similar mindsets. My thought overall is the prime directive is a LONG list of rules and regulations that were the results of past experiments. The issues were when people started treating the directive like religion or really only caring about the cliffnotes about the directive. I also annoyed when people MISS that point about the prime directive.
And so I say to any creature who may be listening: There can be no justice, so long as laws are absolute. Life itself is an exercise in exceptions.- Picard.
Chuck Sonnenberg of SF debris has a great rant about the Prime directive at the end of his review of: The Masterpiece Society. Not only does he explain how its supposed to work, but he also chews out both the shows creators AND in show characters for screwing it up. Its so good to hear.
There was also Kukulkan from TAS. Kukulan was the last of an ancient serpent species who visited Earth's distant past & was instrumental in the technological and architectural advances of the Egyptian, Mayan, Aztec and South Asian civilizations. He was identified with the lore of Quetzalcoatl, as well as the legend of the Chinese dragon. Today this feel very "Ancient Aliens" problematic implications and all, though it was written by a Native American.
@@Valavaernit's not _really_ the "Ancient Aliens" vibe, it's too much of the staff not liking the implication that their inculcated Mediterranean (Ergot-munching, Lead-sipping) """paragons""" facing/needing the same, and same _sort of,_ interference as the tribes that were later fucked over on a buffet-choice of those supposed "ideals", so they just hide behind "becuz Ancient Aliens problematic, nvm who wrote it unless having them as writer make us look gud"...
Yeah, ancient aliens is mostly problematic when written by outsiders because they underestimate the people they’re discussing. Internal legends and storytelling is kind of a different thing, despite surface similarities in core ideas. Like the writer of that episode said: if Roman gods get to be made real in the setting, why not also mine? Or something to that effect. Meanwhile, some modern Americans are doubting that real people built… early-1800s tunnels in Europe. Must be aliens. They just didn’t have the technology in 1810. (Even though clearly they did, because they exist.) And that’s a really good example, for western readers, of how it’s the angle and implicated insult which really matters.
Ancient aliens being problematic is goofy, yeah obviously ancient humans were as smart as we are, but they were far less wise. Saying that ancient aliens gave them tech isn't anymore problematic than saying books give children knowledge. Even though I think ancient aliens as a concept is also goofy af, I think discounting it because you don't truly understand the implications and think it's problematic is, well, problematic
er no the cardassian government would disagree it's true that the federation went ham for the bajoran wormhole and surprise surprise terok nor/ds9 was readily available to be liberated and repurposed to be up to federation standard and in the joint custody of bajor and the federation after handing bajor back to the kai council so whatever remains of the prime directive's applicability was noped thanks to the cardassion union.
@@xyreniaofcthrayn1195 The Bajorans were already capable of interstellar travel by the time before the Cardassians invaded them, with the solar sail ship that could reach Cardassia Prime But neither the Federation, nor the Cardassians, knew about the Wormhole, and the Celestial Temple was largely viewed as a Bajoran myth. Considering everything else, the Cardassians kind of found Bajor to be the Afghanistan to their USSR there, and they got everything they easily could and left the Bajorans to handle the wreckage...the Bajorans brought in the Federation and the wormhole was found which created a situation where the Union couldn't just come back and take it back over
@@xyreniaofcthrayn1195the directive still prevents interference in internal governments (this comes up multiple times in DS9 about meddling with Cardassia or Romulus).
That one episode of Voyager demonstrated perfectly what can happen to an alien civ that has any contact with a more advanced power before it's ready, it was that episode where they got trapped in orbit of a rapidly rotating planet, and the natives went from flitstones to First Contact in just a couple of days. While that would have been a perfect case of "The PD applies here" their situation meant they had no choice but to ignore it.
I look at the Voyager episode Distant Origin for the answer of the rightness of the Prime Directive. If someone had helped the ancient Voth on Earth, humanity would never have evolved certainly not in the form they did, and they wouldn't have been able to uplift whatever species are working in Cetacean Ops. The universe would thus be emptier with just the Voth around. It can suck in the moment and the TNG episode Homeward just had a terrible premise in that letting the entire biosphere collapse serves no one, but the Prime Directive is there for a reason.
That’s kind of a (de)ontological argument though, in that humanity’s existence is predicated as both good and necessary. It’s an understandable argument to make given we are humans, but there’s nothing inherently better or worse about us versus eg the neanderthals. (Which is the alternate history idea Phlox invokes in that Enterprise episode.)
@@kaitlyn__L No, but that's partly the point. In saving the Voth you've almost certainly doomed humanity and more broadly possibly any other species that might have arisen in our place with the Voth still here or at least active for a longer period. Instead Earth was able to give rise to at least 2 space faring species (and possibly many more in the recent mammalian dominant era depending on how you interpret possible Cetacean Ops crew members). One can argue whether THAT is a good or necessary thing, but given the premise of Star Trek, and the Federation's adoption of the Vulcan edict of Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations I think it is an internally consistent one.
Apparently the very enlightened federation was never able to fine a happy medium between stopping planet wide apocalypses and subjecting people to brutal colonialism, despite being a post scarcity civilisation.
@@FarseerOfCearath doctors w/o borders are not invading cultures that had no idea of the existence of the rest of the world. they would never go to the Sentinelese or random amazon tribes just because, even if they were hit by a plague.
Oh, it wasn't just that - they wanted to make sure that independent civilizations could develop without having to confront the fact that they're surrounded by more-advanced aliens. Once you invent warp drive, the Directive doesn't (or shouldn't) apply, because you should _expect_ to find aliens at that point.
There are two aspects to the Prime Directive. The first is non-interference. The second is if we are morally on the hook for every dying civilisation then all we will do is save dying civilisations.
I think it makes more sense to interpret the Prime Directive as "YOU should not interfere with primitive societies". I think we can all agree that interference has such profound consequences that it should not be left up to the discretion of individual captains. I can imagine the Federation has a panel of xenoanthropologists and ethicists for years deciding whether or not to aid a particular primitive society, based on whether such a thing would likely do more harm than good.
The Prime Directive prevents whatever the writers of that particular episode decide. TOS had the balance right, with Kirk technically breaking it when common sense demanded it, like with the Organians (before knowing their true nature) and the Yonada asteriod as two examples. Spock even regards those decisions ultimately, as "logical". From TNG onwards in the vast majority of instances, it was applied like dogmatic nonsense, always based on the flawed argument of "you can't know the consequences" if you do decide to break it.
"The Prime Directive prevents whatever the writers of that particular episode decide." Usually just so Kirk and co. couldn't just solve the episode problem in like 5 seconds.
taking it as in universe it prevents things like the scramble for Africa, the colonial empires, the wide spread famines that resulted in the application of European health care to peoples who had 15 kids but produced food for only 3 (the advances that prevented child mortality, with out changing the culture to accommodate the fact the kids lived past birth). giving knowledge to those not ready for it has proven to be generally destructive. the north American natives are facing cultural extinctions because the traditions of their culture no longer function as needed in the modern world. it gets worse the wider the disparity of cultures. sure it isn't a perfect ideal, but the levels of harm it prevents even limiting the question to real world scenarios is a vastly more moral outcome..... which therein lies its failure civilization does not function on morality
@@kertagin1 which was ALWAYS the point of the directive do captains take it to the extreme on occasion acourse but that’s not fully the directives fault
Another great vid, Ric! You got me thinking of how rich in plot-lines a show about the unknown planets and civilizations in the beta quadrant would be.
The Prime Directive prevents Captains from being promoted to Admiral, but the Temporal Prime Directive (looking at you Janeway) gets you promoted to Admiral, especially if you violate it 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
My thought on this has been that we didn't really need a "backstory" for the Prime Directive outside the Enterprise prequel series, which definitely did a bad job in the episode that was supposed to address it. There were always two obvious scenarios for Case 0. One was that an accident or an idealistic intervention gave Federation weapons or tech to an undeveloped species that ended up destroying themselves. The other, in some ways more plausible, was that a warlike primitive culture got warp drive and became a threat to other planets and/ or the Federation itself. Which, when you get down to it, is as good an explanation as any for the Klingons.
I think the Iconians had a good approach, making contact and sharing knowledge when they were deemed ready for it. Those more prone to war-like tendencies didn't receive much help as it was feared even medical or agricultural technology would be weaponized
Starfleet interferes simply by flying their fancy starships around, which have been occasionally picked up by pre-warp civs. First contact by Starfleet by soon to be warp-capable species, has also been disastrous on occasion. Whatever makes them sleep well at night, I guess.
I always saw the Prime Directive as an outgrowth on the Federation as a science-philosophy culture, and that Starfleet existed for a long time as a scientific organization rather than a military one. Scientists observing nature will take pains to not interfere so they can get accurate data, even if that means the subjects die from circumstances the scientist is capable of saving them from. In this case, the Prime Directive, like most 'ultimate rules' has a dark side in that it allows Starfleet and the Federation an excuse for not saving civilizations and individuals they otherwise could have by citing non-interference. It's also why many Starfleet commanders of conscience knocked heads often with the more 'pure science' officers when they did interfere.
Excellent video!🌟 I especially agree with you that it’s the Vulcans that gave the Federation its Prime directive. Usually for better, but sometimes for worse because it leads to standing by whilst a planet gets destroyed as we too often see in TNG, like in the episode “Homeward.” Or the various orders of idiotic admirals. See the Lorerunner for his indignant “ruminations” on that subject with which I agree.
Homeward was just a clunky episode with a terrible setup. I don't judge the Federation or the Prime Directive based on it just like I don't judge Dr. Crusher for the events of Sub Rosa.
There are a few episodes of the different Star Trek series which I believe would have definitely demonstrated the reasoning for the Prime Directive. In TOS there was a world on which a sociologist thought he could recreate the Third Reich without any of its depraved flaws. Needless to say the experiment didn't go accept to plan. In fairness same seeing was episode involving a world that had been heavily information by a 20th century crime novel, which was left behind by an Earth freightliner. Finally there's an episode of Voyager where they discovered a pair of Ferengi on a pre-warp world. The pair got stranded after going through a wormhole in an episode of TNG. They then used their tech to appear as prophesied deities and taught the inhabitants the Rules of Acquisition.
I remember a Voyager episode where an early 22nd century human probe try to give 20th-century-level humanoids the warp drive but they ended up using it as a weapon against each other.
Yes Friendship 1. However as I remember the episode the devastation which occurred on that world wasn't due to a war. According to accounts from the period some Antimatter technology was used primarily for energy generation. At some point someone tried to do something which caused them to lose control of the reactors. In essence, it was a large scale Chernobyl style disaster.
@@Loneguy22 Two centuries prior, Captain Archer drives that home when he told T'Pol that giving an early 21st century civilization the warp drive would be a terrible idea because they lack the know-how and the experience, antimatter is a dangerous thing.
@@xp8969 To the point he and much of the bridge crew argue for sacrificing entire worlds to preventable natural disasters. There are TNG prime directive episodes that paint our "heroes" as flat out monsters. Give me the TOS/Strange New Worlds interpretation any day: if you see a pre warp planet about to be wiped out by an asteroid or some such you can obviously help. You do your best to help in secret, but you're not expected to offer empty platitudes while watching billions die on your viewscreen.
Yeah, they kind of went from "colonialism is bad" to "any outside influence whatsoever is literally worse than extinction". That's uh... quite the leap. Not to mention the uncomfortable Social Darwinism-esque subtext (or just _text_ in the case of that one Enterprise episode) which always sort of lingers in the background. If a civilization can't survive without help, they're apparently not _supposed_ to... Are we _sure_ Starfleet are the good guys..?
oh yes General Order 1, also known as the Plot Devictive. joking aside, the Prime Directive is such a interesting case of irony when you think about it, like it's core concept is respecting pre-warp civilization's agency while actively disregarding it because they're "primitive people".
The Prime Directive is not perfect, and some Starfleet captains can be a little too dogmatic in its interpretation, but overall, I think it's a policy that does far more good than harm, especially when you take into account the fates of species in less idealistic areas of space. The Federation may only be able to silently protect species in its own space, but that makes a difference to *those* species at the very least. If you want to see what a sci fi galaxy looks like without something like the Prime Directive, look at Star Wars. Slavery and exploitation run rampant, and the Republic, even the "holier than thou" Jedi, don't care. I know which Galaxy I'd rather live in.
Great call! I'd say Babylon 5 is even bigger. There, the most advanced species actively FORCE the lesser developed ones to fight interstellar wars that end in civilization ending destruction for their own ideological reasons. It's Pokemon on a cataclysmic level.
When writing work emails to multiple people and departments, I now begin them with "Hello All,". One coworker called me asking if I also watch your channel!
Ah those prime directive episodes are often tough lol. I too quite enjoyed the Nibiru sequence in Into Darkness. Thank you for another interesting episode looking at the directive from another side. God be with you out there everybody. ✝️ :)
Short on time but Picard also had 2 issues to tackle the prime directive. One was warfs human brother trying to save a people whose planet was about to be destroyed, and the other when an observation team was in trouble and he was being venerated as a god.
I kind of prefer a closer relation in canon to Stargate for the Greek gods than Star Trek gave us: _all_ the gods were interfering aliens, but not necessarily malicious, just... flawed. This is one of the reasons I really like Roger Zelazny's Lord of Light.
To me, the Prime Directive is intended as a guardrail against colonialism and imperialism, diegetically a response to both the effects of those forces on human history as well as the early failures of interference in the pre-Federation era, and externally was also probably written in part as a reaction to the geopolitics of the cold war, which were rife with proxy wars, surreptitious funding of insurrections, and outright overthrowing of foreign governments in the interest of one superpower gaining an upper hand against the other.
The history of the Klingons being enslaved by the Hur'q and overcoming them mirrors that of the Hish-qu-Ten (the ancestors of the Yautja) being enslaved by the Amengi before overcoming them.
I just realized that it actually makes sense that Klingon society didn't focus on war and combat until they got space travel and began conquering and exploiting other worlds and civilizations. No society can consist entirely of warriors, but once the Klingons could force others to perform non-martial duties for them, they could afford to become a warrior culture. Of course there are still Klingons who have other main professions besides being warriors, like the Klingon chef on DS9 and various lawyers and merchants that we've seen in the shows, as well as artists and craftsmen that have been mentioned occasionally, but the majority can now allow themselves to be warriors full time.
One thing to note...Starfleet has no problems with exploiting being on the *other* end of the equation--they find out a more advanced civilization was watching *them*, they're perfectly willing to yoink whatever they can from them. Kinda the Borg crossed with China, in a way.
@@Raja1938 Though I would LOVE to find out there is some fabulously more advanced intergalactic (heck interdimensional) societies out there casually operating beyond detection that hide themselves and their entire societies because the Federation and its relative peers are deemed too primitive for contact. Not necessarily the various god aliens of Trek, those are usually petty showoffs and clearly DON'T have Prime Directives, but principled and aloof super science societies waiting for the current crop of sentients to be ready to join the actual big time.
Also the vulcans came to them once humanity had warp capabilities. Once a species reaches warp capabilities the federation starts first contact. And if they are successful there's also an exchange of Technologies.
The interpretation depends if the writers want to write a high minded philosophical episode, a rebellious heroic story, or an edgy 'leadership is corrupt' story. By Picard's time it has morphed into almost religious dogma like the Klingons morphed into a raiding/warring culture, through idealising Archer's self sacrificing gallows speeches. Voyager did it well by recognising that they were not seperate from anyone around them, that they should not refuse to help others for a distant ideology and Janeway holds the record for the most first contacts of any captain. Prodigy (my niece is going to be devastated if it doesn't get a second season) had an interesting take on first contact done right but still going very very wrong. The Federation did everything right, waited, assessed, talked, removed themselves when it went wrong but there was never anything they could have done right anyway. The Vau Na'kat were never going to take the existence of aliens well, they were convinced they were the centre of the universe and destroyed themselves because they couldn't undo that knowing (until time travel became an option).
Does anyone remember a video on this channel. It covered something about during the dominion war starfleet ordered extra production of defiant class vessel from 7 per year to 12 oer year . At utopian fleet yards. ?
Resulted in things like "The Picard", failed first contact in TNG, I think that's the name of the episode, and even if they just show up in a planet that is affecting the ppl of it
What I always loved about Trek were discussions about ethics and morality. That might doesn’t make right. Though I disagree with the Prime Directive sometimes like allowing an entire sentient species to go extinct
My fav prime directive violation is when kirk is on the mafia planet and just gives up with the soft touch and just stunns 4 city blocks and tells everyone the federation is in charge now but they just want them to go back to before they decided to imitate the mafia
What's the source of the "uncaring if those worlds were already inhabited" assertion? Into Darkness was garbage and I include the opening scene in that until some one can give me a reason the Enterprise was underwater and not in orbit.
The thing I hated most about the new movies, was the part where Pike said they were forbidden from saving the planet because it would be a violation of the Prime Directive, regardless of if they were discovered or not, but in the original series, they did it all the time. Often on orders.
It protects the Federation's cowardice, so they never have to take responsibility for actions they took b/c it says they can never take actions when they're needed.
Maybe in some alien species they have replicators, but naturally grown food taste better. I can’t really answer that question. Isn’t more logical reason would be invading planet for their war machine. Grabbing, precious ores and minerals to construct more battleships. I can understand that part.
The problem with a non-interference policy is that it's impossible. Once you become aware of a situation you're automatically involved with it. Whether you choose to actively intervene or choose to withhold that intervention you're still making a choice that will affect the outcome. Refusing to act, as if that will absolve you of responsibility for negative outcomes is just cowardice hiding behind superficial morality.
But it also puts you on the hook for any negative consequences, negative consequences that the more primitive people never made the choice to incur. No advanced race can predict all possible outcomes in an alien environment. Non-interference gives the most amount of informed agency for the uncontacted civilization.
i thought the haakonians where in the delta quadrant the species that had conflict with the talaxians and used the metreon cascade on the talaxian moon ?
The Federation is highly complex, but imo the Prime Directive is mostly for self-preservation. It's for protection of the Federation, rather than any alien civilizations. No idea what the right thing to do would be, it'd probably be more a case by case basis, but the Prime Directive is also just.. standing by while people are dying because of x,y,z. I don't know what the right thing to do would be. Non-interference would be totally understandable to me, but once again, because of self-preservation, and not because they want to protect other pre warp species. Would that be selfish? Probably. It's what the Federation does either way, but in their view, they're morally superior for thinking like that, when I think they're really just doing it for their own benefit. We literally cannot predict the future. So to choose to not help because what if they used whatever weapon of ours to their extinction, is kind of a weak argument for me. Their own "natural" evolution can also lead to extinction. So, I guess, we're going with "survival of the fittest". I don't know if I remember correctly, but Vulcans also had first contact with Earth when Earth and humanity were pretty much shattered. They were just barely recovering from WWIII, but just because the warp was developed, first contact was suddenly a good idea? Even if the natives of the planet were just kind of a mess and hobbling around after something awful like a war. But, really, this does help with my own opinion, that there SHOULD be some interference, and of course, the Federation should ASK if some species want help. It was with the Vulcans' help that humanity flourished and ended up one of the founding members of the Federation. It was their interference that helped massively, and changed humanity's course. So, yeah, no easy answer, but imo, if you're an advanced civilization and just stand by while some species is close to its extinction, that's just cruel.
@@masterpython That is one of them, the children left on an alien world are basically interfering with that planets Evolution cycle because humans on that planet are basically invaders that are interfering with alien Evolution on that planet.
@@masterpython Yes when you colonize an alien world with no intelligent your are still interfering with that planets evolution cycle, you denying alien life a chance to become something greater or worse who knows but still your messing around with a planets evolution cycle we are foreigners invading a planet after all.
Should that be Veridian 3 or Veridian 4 at the end? Four was said to be inhabited, but I guess given the the incredibly Earth-like M-Class-ness of Three, it's not inconceivable it's own sapient species could evolve eventually off the microbes from the D's hull... 🤯
I would like to see a followup video on how the Prime Directive effects the Federation's relations with other nations of equal, or greater power. While we see the Federation willing to ally or war with other powers they don't send diplomatic visits or really try to influence their neighbor's internal cultures. Perhaps if they'd exercised some soft power on the Klingon culture they could have become stronger allies before things became... awkward during the Dominion war. There's also the hypocrisy when they interact with civilizations (or their remnants) that were more powerful, like the Iconians, Precursors, or Q. If they really believed that cultural contamination was such a danger they should halt their archeological efforts, and stick their fingers in their ears when Q shows up.
Hyprocrisy with more powerful civs? Not the same thing. The UFP is making the decision to try to acquire advanced tech. The Iconians, Precursors, Q, etc. can decide to share or not share.
I guess it's about relative power really. In the case of pre-warp cultures, the most careful of handling is appropriate, it's too easy to cause a lot of harm. In the case of spacefaring minor cultures, we can tell them we think they're wrong whilst still respecting their right to do as they please on their own worlds but we shouldn't ever bully them. With roughly equal powers like the Klingon or Romulan empires, a bit of interference is kinda fair enough to defend our own interests but we shouldn't be in the business of trying to bring about wholesale reforms. When dealing with superior powers, all bets are off, though we still hold ourselves to basic ethics.
Given Q's very first interaction was to put humanity on trial I don't think there is really any option of nonintervention. Heck, one could POINT to the Q and the various other meddling god aliens and say this is why we have the Prime Directive. Like where were the Organians during the Federation-Klingon War...uh the second one? Or the Dominion War?
NOTHING at all same as the Temporal Prime Directive both prevent nothing as seen by watching or playing anything to do with ST as its null and void when ever they feel like it.
"I don't know how to communicate this, or even if it is possible to do so... but the question of justice has concerned me greatly of late. And so I say to any creature who may be listening: There can be no justice, so long as laws are absolute. Life itself is an exercise in exceptions." and yet the federation by their Prime Directive commits genocide but letting people die. The Klingons also prove this point. The federation believes that any race can not handle the understanding of the tec like warp drive, but Klingons, mostly farmers and warriors at this time did. their brains didnt explode but rather they said to themselves never again based off their experiances. The Federation treates things like they are in bubbles but we are all connected.
@@Shapes_Quality_Control Yeah, that's where I got it from, then. I've never read any of those books, but a lot of the Trek videos I watched referenced the books, though.
Many wrongly think the prime directive is for some kind of moralistic "don't change the natural development of a planet" reasons, but the actually reason is pragmatically just to protect the federation. Uplifting primitive cultures can be extremely dangerous. The times when they break the rule is almost always because the benefit to the federation in that particular case outweighs the risks.
Thats what its supposed to be But for a good chunk of the time mostly TNG and Voyager, it azz treated as a dogmatic "Dont change things! Change is bad!" ideal, especially with Picard and his crew
I'd argue that its much more than that. By introducing advanced tech to a primitive culture, you've altered the fields of study and ways that they would've pursued those studies from how they otherwise would've done. If instead they're left uncontacted, they may develop techs that the more "advanced" civ would've never thought of. Those new, different techs would benefit the advanced civ by the time the more primitive one developed warp capability or subspace communcation.
@@Raja1938 Very true, one need only look at all those one off aliens that TNG and Voyager encountered that often had seemingly very schizo tech with some advances well beyond what a 100+ member Federation had discovered but were otherwise at the mercy of a single (if powerful Starfleet vessel).
