I never have been paid and could probably never accept being paid. I’ve been a drummer at my local church for over 25 yrs. I consider it my ministry not a job. Now, our church does do an appreciation day for our staff and all of our volunteers are included with that.
Professional musicians earn their living playing music. If you can't put food on the table and a roof over your family's head, what good are you? Think of it like this... if your minister needs a new transmission in his car, does he get it for free? If your church needs a new roof, do they get it for free. As a professional, you deserve to get paid. It's what you've trained for most of your life. Does your minister paid? I mean if all he does is minister his flock, and has no other source of revenue, should he get paid, or should he do it for free. Now if you're a weekend musician with a day job, sure, go ahead. But they get what they get.
I used to be a full time church musician. I was making $500/Sunday as a Director of Worship in Memphis, TN around 2015. The church size was about 5,000, but I needed health benefits and more stability. I left and became a public school music teacher (thank God I have a Bachelor’s in Music and Masters in Education)….it’s much more consistent than church hopping for the next check. Now I’m married to a pastor so I’m obligated to volunteer my services. 😂😂😂
@@The_Christian_Influence Seriously!!! It's almost double the work!!! First Lady and Minister of Music!!! 😂😂😂The only difference now is that Pastor never questions my musical choices. There is way less scrutiny and judgement for VOLUNTEER services. LOL!!! From my experience, the more a church pays you for your services, the more control they try to have over your gifts.
I started lessons age four. Started playing for my sunday school at nine. I didn't feel right taking money. My mom told me they were paying me for the time i put in for practice. CHANGED MY LIFE!
Terence, you are spitting facts. Your balanced and unbiased approach to these issues we face makes it so relatable. Your demonstrated musical ability is exceptional. This channel has a lot to offer. Keep up the good work, and we certainly look forward to more!
@haroldyarborough4719 To say the least, he offers a lot of useful tips for fellow musicians. I've watched several of his videos, and he has a no-nonsense approach to relevant issues we face. He nailed a few hot topics, and I'm sure everyone won't agree with him. He tries to give a balanced perspective, nonetheless.
I did my master’s thesis on what benefits musicians in the Black Church receive. The topic of payment was explored in my research. I’d love to learn how you developed your data. It’s very interesting to have it presented visually.
Coming for some one that has been playing for over 17 years with Calvary's Grace we are a singing group that go all over and in all the years we have done this we have never charged the church that has asked us to come . If they give a love offering great . If they can't we still go and do what God has called us to do . And in all the years of doing this I have never needed for a thing . God has always made the way . I am not talking about going to churches right down the road. We go where God opens the door . God has always made the way for us to go . So no I do not believe in making money for playing at a church .❤
I played almost 20 years for the same ministry and wasn't paid anything. I now get $200 per Sunday for playing and Pastoring. The church isn't my job it's my calling. My job pays me and I look at the small salary as a token of appreciation.
Wow, you pastor and lead the music? Maybe that’s why your ministry isn’t growing? You don’t have a team to help you? If you’re doing everything, you may be over exerting yourself and being ineffective. This doesn’t sound like a flex or something to be proud of. Seems like you want all the glory in stead of training folks up with you.
Thanks for doing a breakdown of the pay scale that some church musicians live with. I wonder if you did a study of how many churches pay their musicians vs don't pay their musicians? I used to do two services on Sunday, one on Wednesday night, and then a Thursday night rehearsal. Then if there was a special service say for the women of the church I did that as well. I never got paid for these services, but I never pushed the subject, (I didn't feel cheated), & I did work a day job at the same time. I would ask to be paid for sure now, but I enjoy playing all kinds of music, not just church music, so I'm glad I have my freedom to study, practice, and play music I really love! Música Brasileira para sempre!
I think majority of medium size churches don’t pay their musicians and they prefer it that way. If they had a choice between an average free musician versus a professional paid musician we know what they would choose. Either way it doesn’t matter to me but I’m done giving my talent for free anymore and now I feel less stressed and more happy. Playing at a church from week to week, playing at special services and rehearsals for free is a huge commitment and it’s stressful when you also work a full time job. Since I stopped playing the game I can focus on my relationship with God.
I’m close to 64. When we started as youngsters we all were happy to get a plate of food. Church in general has become big business. So very distasteful. There’s nothing wrong with getting paid for sharing your gifts but I caution that one day we all will have to stand before a Holy God who will ask us why we asked such absurd prices to share the gifts he blessed us with. Food for thought from the Old Man.
”For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”“ 1 Timothy 5:18 ESV Ie it’s not bad to get paid for this at least sometimes. That’s your conviction to not be paid, oh and this verse is in a pastoral epistle so it’s instructions on how to in fact do church. I say this as a musician on the church team who is a volunteer and does not get paid too.
@@matthw633In LA, rent on average is $2500 a month. Churches want the musicianship of someone who is a professional musician while only paying hobby prices. How does one provide for basic necessities like food, gas, rent, and maintenance on $500 or less? If churches are ok with musicians that are lesser skilled, then they should have a music dept of volunteers. If they want highly skilled musicians who’ve dedicated their lives to perfecting their craft, then they should compensate fairly for that.
I just happened upon your channel and i appreciate the effort you put into this. As a guitar player of 33 years and a worship team veteran of around 7-10 years, it is good information. Personally, i dont have a music degree but would also say that i can play at a pretty high level (read professional but without the $). Growing up with secular music in the 80s and early 90s, i was learning guitar and listening to secular players who were setting the bar so much higher than todays music is. That being said, i have never been in a paid worship position except when i played as a guest guitarist at another bigger church in town. They paid me $25 or $50 (cant remember for sure) for one practice and one stage session. It wasnt much but it showed that that church actually values the efforts and contributions that Christian musicians bring with their gifts. I dont think a church is in error if they pay or dont pay, but i remember how that one small check felt and it made me value what they were asking of me and it raised my level of effort i put in to honor them for asking me to play.
Enjoy your content my friend. Gosh, I live in Chicago and I'm a Keyboard/Organist and those numbers seem quite low here. I have about 40 years in this and I went from $25/week in 1985 to $650/week today for a midsize church. Most of the guys here don't look at years of experience, they look at the need and the size of the church and I know teenagers who's getting $500 a pop. I guess Chicago is in a class by itself Lol.
To everyone: if it’s your conviction that you think you should be paid for your work playing music at a church, then good. If it’s not your conviction that you should be paid for your work playing music at church, then good. It’s not for either one of us to tell each other who is right or wrong. There are biblical reasons that can back up either conviction.
I understand personal convictions… but I’m interested to know the Biblical reference for an Evangelist refusing to teach if the church doesn’t have enough money. Or an Apostle refusing to lead if the church can’t afford to pay them. I’ve played for years, so I understand the commitment… but is the commitment to the kingdom (God’s people), or the money? If I ask for prayer, should I have to pay the prayer team first? If I want to be saved, will you not show me John 3:16 if I didn’t have enough money to pay? The heart of the issue is not receiving money for playing, it’s the total refusal to use your gift unless you get paid. That’s not Biblical. Our whole objective in life as a Christian is to be like Christ. Which person did he charge to heal? Which person did he charge to minister to? Which disciple did he charge when he washed their feet?… but we’re refusing to serve unless ‘the money right’? People gave to Jesus, but he didn’t refuse to go to the cross because the money wasn’t right. Let’s be Christ like.
I have played on worship teams at churches with 100 to 3,000 people and whenever money enters the equation for many musicians it becomes less about serving as member of the church body to build up and edify the local believers and more about a performance that is not directed towards God in true worship. There are countless times that musicians have been a part of teams that aren’t even Christians or are living in sin and not confronted by leadership because they are good musicians. Unless you are literally called to serve the church in vocational or bi-vocational ministry, I believe the church is typically best served by volunteers who co-labor out of love for God and for their fellow believers.
Thank you. I totally agree. People are conflating the role of pastor and worship leader. They are very different. One is clearly defined in for the NT, the other .... you have to twist Mosaic law into a few pretzels to make it apply. I'm not against churches, that can afford to recognizing and honoring their people, once its focused outwards, and most of that money is going to help people, or spread the gospel to the lost (not fattening spoilt, hot-footted sheep)
I understand your viewpoint however I would love to see if you changed your mind if the church had to worship on Sundays with no musicians. I’m sure it wouldn’t feel the same then. Money shouldn’t be the goal and I agree with you on that but it doesn’t mean people shouldn’t be compensated. Remember the Levites in the temple partook of the offerings. In modern church culture there are more salaries in the church than in a business lol but when it comes to paying a musician everyone gets a heart attack lol 😂 just because you play for free at your local church doesn’t make it your worship. You can worship God the same at home and not have to play at the church for free. Both paying and not paying have its consequences but what’s right is right.
Many believers worship around the world with nothing but their voices and a heart set on glorifying God. Some of the most powerful worship experiences I have encountered were with no musicians or just an acoustic guitar or piano. Sometimes I wonder if people ever worship God outside on Sundays when see comments like this. No offense, not an insult. Just thinking about the state of those who call themselves Christians in the US
The whole idea of paid musicians (vs. volunteers) in a church seems real distasteful to me. It is all due to what I call the “Bethelization” of Worship. The incredibly high bar of technical and musical expertise that churches are pressured to attain is staggering and very difficult to achieve with the pool of volunteer musicians from the congregation. Talent is favored over spiritual depth leading to an environment on many worship teams that is indistinguishable from a secular music group, complete with competition, backbiting, lying and sexual impropriety. Churches today are live streamed and think that they have some large audience…or at least a potentially large audience…and therefore they must push aside anything or anyone that does not reflect the proper level of “excellence.” That being a code word for what essentially amounts to the idols of perfectionism and showiness. Small to medium sized congregations especially need to avoid falling into this trap.
The Bible talks about using your gift.. and a man’s labour ought to be compensated.. you think the levites worked for free? Have you ever seen a Jew do anything for free? Western mind trying to interpret the Jewish Bible.. Unfortunately you all have embraces a poverty doctrine started by, perpetuated and glorified by the Catholic Church and continued it in whatever form of Christian tradition you now are part of. Ripping off musicians and those who serve in the church is no different than priest who fleeced congregants out of land and wealth which was meant to be family inheritances. All because of greed from the top and agreed upon by ignorance blind followers. Talent is what the e church needs.. David’s army trained for battle.. skilled soldiers that were just as strong with their left hands as their right hand. If that’s not the standard for worship you need to reconsider what excellence is.. no wonder our children flock to secular concerts and admire rock stars because the church has nothing to look up to. No standards means no discipline. But you do you ❤️
There are small to medium churches that have already fallen into this trap. I've seen it with my own eyes. As a former church musician, I've experienced it all
@@waynv1835 I think that leadership thinks that making it loud will appeal to a younger demographic or some other crazy line of reasoning. I had one Worship Team member tell me that he likes it loud so that he doesn’t have to hear the bad singer next to him. Were have fallen into the “rock concert” mentality. I challenge these churches to try putting away all the loud instruments and worship to simple instrumentation.
Church musicians practice, transcribe, sighted, record, arrange, compose, teach... every week, then go to rehearsals and then play for worship. No less than $50 per hour for home and church work.
Good question, I think it doesn't always work out that larger churches pay more vs the smaller ones. It depends on how the music is perceived. Is the music valued, or is it just taken for granted? I played in a small African church here in the US and I never asked to be paid, (the keys player my friend asked for me), but after a short time they let me play drums & not just percussion, and I did get paid a small amount. It was a small church so they did what they could to honor me as I honored the Lord & their church. It was a positive experience for me, and I'm glad I played there for a season. The people were from Ghana mostly. @@versusdrums
I played guitar for a large church, sometimes accompanying a FULL orchestra plus a 30 person choir, for 10 years. Never got a dime. Even paid for my own coffee at the "latte bar" in the atrium. Only person that got paid was the worship leader who was one of the pastoral staff. Nobody complained. 3 morning services and one evening service every Sunday, plus a midweek rehearsal. Paying all those people would be a hefty chunk of money every week. Being an old rock and roll hack, I count my time with that "gig", for lack of a better term, as probably the best musical experience of my life. Strange transition from cowboy bars and casinos to playing with more classical musicians, quite a few of whom were formally educated musicians, strings, brass and woodwinds. To be honest, I would be satisfied to be compensated for gas to get to and from church. On the other hand, I wouldn't object to a few extra $$$!!! Covid restrictions totally ruined the whole setup, and now the music at that church is a mere shadow of its former self! I will forever treasure those years. Now, I'm back to secular gigs! I never expected nor even wanted to be a star or to get rich being a musician. In this day and age when music can be artificially created on a computer, the days of arena rock and multi-million dollar record deals are pretty much long gone. I watched an interview recently with a legendary jazz bassist who still performs in his 80s. He said to young and up and coming players that you're going to be playing mostly for love of the art, NOT to make a pile of money. Anyhow, hope it all works out for you all!! Jesus is Lord. He paid it ALL. HE IS RISEN! MAGA. MAMIE.
@@m.loughlin1915You should’ve still been paid for your craft! The church would have to pay a plumber, electrician, painter or carpenter when they render a service..a musician is no different! It’s not really the amount, that’s important..it’s important for churches to realize that musicians have spent years honing a craft, purchasing equipment and should be compensated. Even if it’s only $25/week it shows that they appreciate you and your gift and it allows you to maintain your equipment. No church would ever dream of never paying a pastor.
@@The_Christian_Influence the culture of church and being a musician in one is too much the money not even worth your health and then you barely get what you need spiritual smh
True but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be paid. Remember, you can also worship with your talent in your home and there would be nothing wrong with that.
I'm an average musician and I've been getting paid decently for over 25 years!! I have played a service for free but never been a volunteer. SN: I have always had a regular job too!
It's amazing to me that anybody would ever think that somebody should play for a church or any other organization and not be paid. Just because it's a church doesn't mean you shouldn't be paid and should be taken advantage of. Musicians have bills to pay and have to eat.
If you are in ministry for the money you need to re-think who you are serving...I am a worship leader and I don't make that much money. When they hired me they asked if what they offered would be acceptable. It was very low by comparison to other churches... I said "I am not concerned about the money I just want to do ministry...The Lord will take care of the rest" .Worship leading in too many churches has become a show not worship and the minute I get concerned about how much I can make in the ministry I have my priorities upside down Trust in The Lord and He will take care of the rest! and He always has and always will. I have food and clothes...and shelter I am here to win souls for Christ...not to be concerned about my pay rate. Jesus told us our Heavenly father will take care of us.
Ah the classic, Serve for free and starve if you want to go to heaven. Yeah that's not biblical. Paying your wages is biblical, it goes back to Leviticus.
I’ve been reliable, done as told, said yes most of the time on planning center, even been available last minute (and didn’t do too bad of a job for little prep time) all that for 5 years. Paying me has never been discussed. I have been awarded several comped cabin stays/meals at various camps. In some ways I have practically begged to do more for my church. It is what it is. No bitterness. Just glad to see this.
I have a friend who was a full time lounge pianist in NYC for 40 years. One of the few. He retired, moved to Jersey, and volunteers at his Catholic Church and plays the services for free. He loves it more than he ever did the paying gigs.
I enjoy volunteering as the keyboard player. For me, just gives clarity not having money be part of the equation. I have steady income elsewhere, so when I play the keys at church, I can focus on the worship experience. Not saying that's for everyone - just that it works for some.
I appreciate the information given, Thanks to the Terence Fisher for giving this information, My church does pay the musicians. I am sure they pay us, I see them passing out the envelopes, but I have no idea how much they pay, I have always refused the cash. It is a small church and I do not want to take their money, I like the fact that the church is a food bank, and it is one of the tougher areas in Los Angeles. I love the children that show up. It is a risky deal, when the first year I did it, there were two attempted muggings. I was the guy they were mugging. I love Gospel, and maybe I should charge them, but I don't.
I have been a church musician for 20 years as a vocalist, keyboardist, organist, and music director and have never been paid.. I completely support church musicians being paid but I don’t think it’s very common..
@CHASECOM3 May just be out of touch regarding black church protocols. There are far more white churches with larger congregations and budgets, and yet the musicians look at it as an honor to play for God and receive no compensation. I'm talking about good musicians who can play every bit of what we're used to hearing in our churches. They just look at it differently.
I’ve been a musician for over 20 years. It has always been an honor to play for God but that doesn’t mean playing at the church for free especially when there are people getting paid salaries. My greatest worship is not the one I do at church it’s the one I do when the crowd is gone and I’m left alone with God.
Hmmm, pay the church musicians? Sounds like a great idea, but I've never seen it first hand. Started working with praise bands back in 1991, both on the stage (keys and vocal) and on the FOH tech crew. In churches small (20-50 people) and not so small (1500-2000 people) all around Southern California and Southern Arizona. I've always figured we volunteer for the job because that's how we serve God and our church. Thanks for making this video! It's been very eye opening.
You busted me man ! Listening to my phone fifteen minutes before rehearsal. I have only played drums at this one church for about fifteen years now, it is what I would call a small church 150- 200 in a weekly attendance. This has always been just because I in joy playing drums, I was 45 years old when I first started going to church and I believe I was brought there for a reason . To serve with the only thing I had to offer.
I play for my church to serve the lord and my brothers and sisters. It’s not a small church either, and I’m no greenhorn on the drums. I’ve been playing drums 30 out of 34 years of my life and being able to serve my church is a blessing. The thought of musicians serving by doing what they were put on this earth to do is fantastic, but the thought often them getting paid to do it kind of makes me sick.
Whether the Pastor gets paid or not is none of my business. That is between the pastor, the church, and the Lord. I've been blessed with a full-time job and it serves my family and me very well. I give my time and talents to the Lord with no request for extra payment beyond my regular job. @@mjdrummer5378
Little, do you know just like you go to school to be a nurse you go to school to become a doctor you go to school to become a veterinarian you go to school to study lol police officer, chef a lot of these people are going to school from Music. And I’m not stating that musicians only rely on the church to pay their bills. I’m not saying that because they are several ways in addition to make money and music but when it comes to church alone, I have to tell you if you’re out of church and it’s a busy church, and let’s say they can only afford one organist one drummer etc. etc. and they have five choirs and each choir has their own designated night of rehearsal and I have to be at each rehearsal every night. That’s about 2 to 3 hours for rehearsals then engagements and services on Sunday. It would be hard for me to get a secular job during the week I’ve experienced that so it’s not about just paying musicians but it’s because of our time of me, being a Church is taking more out of my time, and if I was to get lucky and find a secular job like in retail or sales or something like that a lot of the jobs with that give me a lot of hours because my availability was really really bad Some people look at it as a hobby, and sometimes it can be a hobby. But some people look at this and is a job and their craft. And being a Minstrel, it’s not just about going to a rehearsal and playing there’s a lot more that goes with it.
The apostle Paul also said he and the other apostles had a right to demand pay of the Corinthian church but CHOSE not to. It was his personal choice, not a mandate.
I know a guy who played organ at his Sunday service. That was it. He didn't do anything else. He was very entitled and felt that he shouldn't be doing anything else for the church, since he did "more than anyone." Also, he liked to remind folks he went to a conservatory in Moscow. He asked for $2000 a month for 8 hours of work a month. He was horrified that a small small church in a small town bringing in sometimes 20 folks to a service wouldn't do that. He left. Then later came back for pennies when nobody else would pay that.
Thank you, sir, for this VERY valuable and informative video. Obviously, you put in a whole lot work into this. This video will a blessing and a tool to many a musician.
Hate to beat the drum of what a lot of these comments are saying, but I have close to 20 years of experience playing with professional musicians in a worship setting. Played at churches with thousands, and churches with less than 100. If someone wants to pay me to come, serve and help out, i’ll do it on occasion. But I’ve come to believe that on average, worship departments within the church is the biggest gaping hole for discipleship. Musicians don’t stay planted, and they run around each week gigging at whichever church is paying the most, and chilling in a green room. I’m not saying that there aren’t great leaders and mentors within worship departments that do disciple these people, but I’m saying, on average, musicians hop around from church to church, check to check, and don’t stay planted. Then they aren’t poured into. It’s tough, because any church, big or small, has a desire for excellence within their sound. And they want to grow. But they offer resources to bring in outside musicians, rather than create a culture of serving within their church and raise genuine leaders who want to grow in their craft. Those aspiring musicians within their own congregation then don’t get opportunities because the professional is coming in on a paid gig. So why would the church spend more resources to train and develop the young musician 10 years behind the professional they can just pay to come in?? Nothing wrong with accepting an honorarium to serve, just be careful of making that your main motivation on what church to attend and be fed in.
Well said but… 😂.. why does no one see how this falls on poor leadership? Where are the pastors in this scenario? Insecure creative people will never want to even pave the road for another to take his place and take away his income. If musicians were also taught how to invest money and make money work for them, which is highly biblical, it wouldn’t be an issue and watch how the church musician would grow and have time not only for the ministry but family too. Get smarter and do better.
I've been playing for 30yrs now I sing and play various instruments and love playing for the Lord. I've only got paid once. Folks think it's a hobby or your gifted. But it is and always will be hard work. Which I love. Recently due to circumstances ie I'm now in a hostel I'm trying to ask for help, still a lot of resistance to pay for the play? But I'm asking out of necessity. I'm in a crippling poverty situation and house prices are always going up. Folks in the church don't seem to realise that musicians and vocalist work hard to perfect their craft. I wish people who believe that they are spiritual, would value their music ministers, even those that play the humble acoustic guitar. They also have to live. Too? Thank-you so much for posting this programme. I hope it highlights that many music ministers are living in poverty and folk should care? The pay for play seems like a good idea? As I've been working at this for 30years. And i didn't think about the money to live on and now I am in a terrible situation. But I'm glad I play for the Lord Jesus and I will keep doing this as long as I can. Thank-you once again for highlighting the issue and the social practicalities of earning a wage. I really wish I knew you 30yrs ago. Folks should care, even some help with the cost of instruments and equipment etc. Would have been good. But food and clothing that's where I am now. Godbless you for your ministry message. I do hope folks change their thinking about caring to pay their music ministers and ministry team. It's a longtime coming. Godbless Ps I have liked and subscribed 👍 😎 💭 🎶 🎼
I understand personal convictions… but I’m interested to know the Biblical reference for an Evangelist refusing to teach if the church doesn’t have enough money. Or an Apostle refusing to lead if the church can’t afford to pay them. I’ve played for years, so I understand the commitment… but is the commitment to the kingdom (God’s people), or the money? If I ask for prayer, should I have to pay the prayer team first? If I want to be saved, will you not show me John 3:16 if I didn’t have enough money to pay? The heart of the issue is not receiving money for playing, it’s the total refusal to use your gift unless you get paid. That’s not Biblical. Our whole objective in life as a Christian is to be like Christ. Which person did he charge to heal? Which person did he charge to minister to? Which disciple did he charge when he washed their feet?… but we’re refusing to serve unless ‘the money right’? People gave to Jesus, but he didn’t refuse to go to the cross because the money wasn’t right. Let’s be Christ like.
I loved this video, however I think that Audio techs and video techs need some attention too. I play drums (rarely) but I am the Audio tech at my church, i run sound, take care of equipment, redo stage layout(including moving musician locations as well as equipment cables, gear etc). There is a ton of work that happens behind the scenes even more than the musicians do, so when they show up, things are ready to go.
My point exactly. Why the great emphasis on musicians? There are a lot more people who are doing far more than just bringing melody to a service. If musicians get paid then everyone should get paid , making the church a businesss.
I played in church for years and was just happy to play and donate my time not look for a paycheck. Alot of church now pay great musicians to get people to church just to listen to the music. More people more money……. Some can say more people to the Lord also
You left out the most significant piece of information which is that many if not most church musicians are not paid at all. In fact many pastoral staff members are not paid either and they spend more on their work than many musicians. If church work EVER comes down only to a matter of money and compensation, there is something missing.
I played lead guitar at a church of 4,000 for 17 years and for the last year at a smaller church. Have only received a few gift cards and some reimbursement for strings and tubes. I've never wanted or thought of being paid unless I was a full time employee of the church (which was never the case).
The opposite end of that spectrum is the elevation of mediocrity (which I have SEEN). I hear what you are saying about overly showy music, but the really excellent church musicians know how to support the service beautifully without calling attention to themselves. I remember one service in particular- the organ music was just THERE… seamlessly delivered exactly at the right time, the stops used artfully to complement the various nuances in the lyrics of the different verses, and in a low key way, so much that it wasn’t until the end that I even wondered where the organ console WAS (usually that’s the first thing I check in an unfamiliar church.). You don’t come out of the box knowing how to do all that. Flashy hot licks have limited (if any) application in church. It’s supposed to be mostly participatory without being boring or emotionally manipulative.
I was only paid once - and accepted it, but it was because I was helping out a friend which required me to drive an hour and half each way. But I’m not a staff member, I’m was 2-3 Sundays a month lead guitarist. I have been on a two year hiatus - church hurt type stuff, being taken for granted and being in a church that moved into what my wife and I felt shifted its focus away from God. Considering I have been playing over 40 years, 15 of them in church with church techniques, sight read, know the electronics, interfaces, rigging, and was the best guitarist at church technically speaking, plus I own a lot of really high end equipment. I guess it isn’t unreasonable to be paid for my experience and the 10-15 hours a week I’d put into learning, tone shaping/programming, rehearsal and multiple services. Now you’re making me wonder if all the motivational stuff about it being an anointed thing, a privilege to be chosen to play, volunteer was just to keep from having to pay us. For a full time staff member - it should be equivalent to what a teacher makes in a market IMO. It’s not a highly demanding job, I’ve spent the day with worship leaders and it’s not like they’re running around coordinating a bunch of stuff, it’s basically a part time job with almost full time hours.
I was never a church musician. But in souil bands I played in back in 1980 $125-150 for a four set evening was typical in Buffalo. Fast forward 35 years to playing solo piano in restaurants in Raleigh, NC and they were only paying $75 for three sets. Musicians income went backwards. It is why I got a day job.
Wow?! I’ve never been paid as a musician at church. I’m so used to not getting paid. I find it funny to get paid for the amount of money you described. I’ve studied music in college and have been in the music industry as a session player.
I've never understood how people can watch an organist play and watch a pianist play and come to the conclusion that they are basically the same thing.
Same here! My primary instrument is the piano. I can only "fake" a little organ on my keys by changing the tone or voice. If I had to play an organ, it wouldn't sound great.
Wow … I’ve been leading and playing on worship teams for over 30 years; worship leader and all the main contemporary instruments and voice and I’ve never been paid anything. Sometimes up to five services a week … I’ve done conferences and events … zero payment; really does make me wonder hearing this video
You are being taken advantage of.. what’s family life like? You able to buy shoes when you needed them? Bills always paid on time? Eat healthy? Present well? If you answered no to any of these.. let’s see if your pastor answered no to any of these too.
@@seandaly3983 actually yes, I'm a full time software developer, family life is fine, bills always paid on time, I eat and exercise well. So none of that is in question, I love doing it, I'm just saying that it's NEVER been a paid gig for me.
Well I know I’m getting under paid. It not about money, but a full time musician, who works a full time job and has a family with kids. It a lot of work for the MD. I teach songs, for 5 different choirs, play a minimum of 2 times a Sunday, plus after service, following the pastor, and play for funerals and wedding. You should get paid a decent pay for time away from family and you don’t know what stress a MD deal with dealing with church folks.
I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, our talent and our time comes from God, and service to Him on the platform is an honor and my way to give back to Him.. On the other hand, I know people who volunteer to lead, for example, a youth worship ministry, and it takes extra time to plan the schedule and music every week. Should they be compensated for their time? I guess that depends on value added. If they could just find someone else, they wouldn't have to pay. Andy Rozier from Vertical once said, "If it was about the music, we could just worship from a CD. We aren't here to serve an agenda - we are here to serve God." If live music and a high talent level is that important, your church will pay you. But most churches are looking for people with a heart to serve, and most people do it gladly. I pray my heart resists an attitude of entitlement.
Our vocalist do not get paid. They sing for the glory of God. I’m just blown that things have gone from singing and playing for the love of God, to having to pay someone. If the church blesses the musician…good for that person, but no one should have to be paid to worship. I’d rather clap and foot stomp. Just saying. So are they supposed to pay the live stream team as well? God will get his praise no matter what.
Honestly, most churches can’t even afford to pay for worship. If they can, it’s not a lot. If all churches only had musicians/singers that they could afford (no volunteers) Pastor would be the one leading worship acapella every Sunday. I think it’s good to compensate everyone that contributes at church, but I think for people at churches that can’t afford to pay, they’d rather volunteer than not have it at all.
How about donating freely your gifts to build up the church? Should Sunday School teachers get paid? How about Bible study leaders? In my church, everyone volunteers their time, including gardening and mowing, cleaning the church, kitchen help, music, Sunday school and Bible leaders, security team, building maintenance and improvements, sound people, etc. Only paid positions are pastor and secretary. So many larger churches are seeker-friendly, trying to emulate the world, and place a high emphasis on entertainment. One does not need a full, professional band with highly skilled, technical vocalists to worship God. A volunteer worship leader who leads the congregation in hymns and worship songs along with a volunteer piano player, and maybe an organist is sufficient.
I’m more of a club/wedding /music educator guy eavesdropping on this talented community, and I’m smiling as his comment about some drummers not really putting in practice time seems to span across the spectrum of music performance…….I said “some” 🙂
ive been playing drums for 20 years and when I lived In TN I used to get paid 500 a service now I live in Florida and I get $1000 as minimum to go out. It really depends on the budget and where you go.
Nice, I asked for $450 a week at a Church and they never called me back, so I'm lookin' for a gig. Can't find any other churches in the DFW area that will pay a bass player, yet...still looking.
Depends on the situation...and I've done paid and volunteer. But I can easily tell who doesn't play or can't play very well in the comments 😂 I always laugh at individuals who say church musicians shouldn't be paid because they usually have no clue to what is expected from them for congregants to have a 'High Time with the Lord'. Show me a church with a mediocre to subpar music department and I'll show you a dead to dying church. Music sets the atmosphere FIRST for God's flock to receive His message. Good appropriate music in church is vitally important for worship and should not be taken for granted.
If it's a mega church you should get paid but if it's a very small church you shouldn't don't take advantage of a starting up church ..but if the church is huge and they have their own Restaraunt and coffee Cafe in that bad boy ...and the youth group has their own building within it bruh ..get yo money ..
LOL, this video just tickles me. I have never gotten paid at any church. I was P&W leader for adult and youth at my previous church for 13 years, was the keyboardist and, as needed, filled in on drums. Vocalists, drummer, guitarists, bassist, keys--none of us were "hired" by the church. At the church I'm with now, I'm thankfully only leader when our senior Pastor (who is also our guitarist) is absent. Our Assistant Pastor is our bassist. Obviously, they get paid being the pastoral staff. But none of the rest of us do. And, honestly, I've never felt like I needed to be. And I'm not slamming anyone who does...just saying it's never been on my radar.
I´m from Buenos Aires, Argentina (South America). In this region of the world we church musicians do not get paid for our service at all. I have been playing keyboards for over 25 years. I always wanted to be able to dedicate myself fully to serve the Lord by playing music, but it is not possible here. ( excuse my poor english. it is not my language)
I played guitar at my church for over 20 years. When i started i asked not to be payed.however, the music minister said i will be payed to keep me from leaving. Later .at the same church i was no pleased with the new music minister so i left . Then the keyboardist asked for me to come back . So i did . However my pay was dropped down to amateurs pay.i did not say nothing . Until i new what the other musicians were payed. So now i said you know what.dont pay me at all. Now i play for free and have no stress but thinking about going back to just studio work and live gig from time to time.
You not playing for the church you playing for God and what an honor it is no pay seeing that he woke u up also he gave u six other days to earn money for your God given talent 🙏💯
My dayssss that I woke up is only playing for the kingdom because that is what the giver of the gift has says sooo if I work I am to be paid.. because i am not lazy to work.. and best know that many are call but few are chosen . Harvest is great but labour are few. Because you and other similar unreasonable humanity .. have scared the labours away with this sinful statement. Wait do You know that we was given his talent to go and make aboundant trade on it but but instead it been hidden and stays wasted... Look the creator of the universe only want first fruit and first fruit is also money. For even the gift of wisdom knowledge and understanding have the benefits of given aboundant of wealth. And so am sure that Elohim say his will.. wait you know we call it will also right ... Ok so yes it is his will that we should be prosper and in good health.. yes ... Elohim also given us his approval to get wealth so that the covenant is fulfilled.
I know most churches do not have a horn section, but I'm interested in seeing what the average salary for horn players in churches across the country is. My main instrument is trumpet, when I started playing trumpet in church it was not a paid position. I only started getting paid in church after I learned to play the piano.
This matters when you treat church as business and private enterprise to profiteer from, which is as far as it gets from the biblical concept of being in the church of Jesus Christ. Taking part in worship is a privilege. If you want to get paid for playing music, find yourself a gig, worship is not an entertainment event!
So receiving something from the church equates as treating it as business and private enterprise to profit from? What if you studied church music for 5 years at a university and you are a certified church musician? Does that equate using church for profit? Do you really understand the time and effort to develop the "skill" in making "art" we all need to pay rent/eat/medical expense etc.... lol
There is a simple answer to this question but I get it’s not great for content. The answer is: whatever the leadership and worship leader agree on based on what the church budget can allow. I agree they should be paid according to their talent level and value but the fact is many churches really can’t afford to pay beyond a certain level. Where I attend (I am also an elder and a musician) I wish we could pay our worship leader more. She’s far more valuable than what we are currently compensating her but that’s all we can afford right now. She and her husband volunteer a lot of time besides her duties as WL but those are not required. They chose to volunteer that time as a member of the church and doesn’t expect to be compensated. I’m not opposed to paying musicians either but again, many churches can’t afford that. The ones that can should.
I've been playing lead guitar and bass for different services for over 10 years but have about 40 years experience. Got paid for ministry work once and that was for a special event. Where I live it is expected to be more of a ministry than a paid position even most of the larger churches don't pay anyone but the worship leader it seems. It would be nice to get something that could at least be reinvested towards the ministry as often was are also providing the majority of the gear. As I'm playing bass for now until I can go back to guitar the bass amp is so bad I went out and purchased an extra to use just for Church. Bottom line though is I believe we are making a difference and while extra funds would be nice it's changing lives that truly matters.
@@ZadielMFishing God doesn’t have your back because you play music for free. He has your back because he loves you and sent his son to die for you. Don’t mix your talent with your purpose. Churches use this mindset to get you to play for free and not complain about it.
I have been playing multiple instruments at church since I was 11 years old. I also have been the choir director as well as the Director of Music Ministries at my current church. I am now 65 years old. I have served at 5 different churches in my years of service. The churches have varied from 300 to 1500 parishioners. I have never been paid for my service. That is my ministry to the Lord. If I were to be paid it would become a job. It appalls me that the younger people coming in to the churches don't want to do anything unless they are paid. If this was all I did and I spent my week working at the church, then it would be different, but what I see are people that have full time jobs that the Lord has supplied for them and instead of thanking the Lord for what He has given them by performing Worship in their given church, they want to be paid. I have always felt that when you lead your congregation in Worship, that is me showing my thanks to the Lord for all He has done for me!!
If you dig in to Nehemiah you will see that these singers were in the Temple singing every day. This was their vocation. As I stated before if this is all that you do and you are there every day doing service then I believe you should be paid. If you have another job that the Lord has supplied for you and you only play for services and practice then I believe this should be your sacrifice of Praise to your Lord.@@jerryKJose
I look at things like this, we are living in this physical world. So we need to adhere to some basic principles. People need to pay by the hour, at least according to the minimum wage of that particular profession. SO musicians have to be paid, in accordance with the the market standards which are always above the minimum wage.
I never made a dime playing at church. Bi didn't mind because these were my home churches and my attendance was not timed to my being a musician.....in fact, our director didn't even get a salary from the church. He was a government employee!
I know a church with maybe 50 FT members that pays a drummer (who is rarely in the pocket) $150 a Sunday, and he plays for maybe 45 minutes MAX! So, a mega-church paying less than $1000 weekly for 20 years XP is an absolute disgrace. And I only say this because these churches want the BEST of the BEST in every position, from musician to camera people, to engineering, vocalist, etc. They expect perfection on a Sunday; you can't mess up, missing chords, missing drops, singing off key, not knowing the music, lighting off, streaming not working, teleprompter showing wrong information, etc.; any of that will be unacceptable; they expect you to be a master at your craft, spending countless hours to have complete command over your expertise. Yes, I think everyone needs to be compensated, OR you get volunteers that will try their best and then you get what you get.
Until I came across this video - with over 25 years of church music experience - I had NO IDEA that getting paid to be a church musician was even a thing!! Now that I've watched this video, I completely understand now why there is so much 'showiness' in certain churches, especially bigger churches: they must be paying their musicians. As for me, I can't imagine ever wanting to get paid for simply reflecting back musical gifts that God has given me. They are for his glory, not mine! So yeah, I'm actually shocked by this idea. If I was to start getting paid, I might be tempted to start playing for the love of money instead of playing for the love and glory of God and I'm all about keeping it real. I want to be motivated by the RIGHT Reason, not worldly reasons. I don't need that kind of temptation as a church musician!!
To be given to the levites.. Nehemiah 13:5 (KJV) And he had prepared for him a great chamber, where aforetime they laid the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the tithes of the corn, the new wine, and the oil, which was COMMANDED TO BE GIVEN TO THE LEVITES, and THE SINGERS, and the porters; and the offerings of the priests.
Been splitting time between leading and drumming for 15 years. Never been paid as staff. These are churches where a worship set is no less than 45 minutes. I have never really had the nerve to bring it up without feeling guilty.
I am a drummer. The dissemination of information in these videos, on being a musician in the Religious world is an eye opener, to say the least. I’ve played Secular music for many years and as I got older, made a transition over to the Religious realm by way of a bassist whom I worked with for many years. It also was striking to me when it was mentioned that at one point in time, drums were considered “taboo” in church. When I first started playing in the church, I could actually sense that, it seemed like the drums didn’t belong there or were out of place. But then I thought, why is it that cymbals were mentioned numerous times in the bible and the Tof, which is a hand drum and the only drum mentioned in the bible? That thought, did however, put some ease on my guilt. The church I work at does pay me a stipend every month, but it doesn’t pay me nowhere near what I should be receiving for having well over four decades of experience. I had to set limitations on how much of my time I give them based on the money that they pay me. Mind you, that when I am there, I give the best that I can. That does not mean playing loud, fast “gospel chops” or overshadowing the vocalists. I have to be completely sensitive to the environment, playing for the music, playing in the background when the Pastor or someone is speaking. I end up using brushes, mallets and sticks to orchestrate my parts within whatever is going on around me.
