i agree but i think we are just blowing this moment out of proportion and oda would troll us and turns out it wasn't a big deal. since he likes to do that, like with sanji transforming and us thinking he hit that girl when he didn't I think its gonna turn out like that
There has been multiple moments in One Piece where I questioned and worried about Oda's directon only to be proven wrong. At this point I trust him to deliver on the themes and mysteries he's set up for 24+ years. Now I'm just going to sit and enjoy the ride.
Exactly, people tend to forget Oda plays the long game and any questionable decisions tend ti be adressed and made into the best possible direction for the story. As you said, let's lay back and enjoy the ride.
Wano has actually been kind of questionable. It wasn't until this arc that the thought popped into my head "Oda is still the one writing this, right?" I don't really wanna turn my brain off to enjoy it
@@freshkiwi9788 except it didn't really "work". Right now we're still waiting for the payoff from it even being introduced. So we don't even know if it "worked" yet. Yeah he didn't let people go back in time, which is the most egregious practice, but that's not enough.
I think the last time we all felt a weird contradiction with how the story was progressing vs the character itself-- was with Sanji and the Raid Suit. It felt weird that he got A power up that contradicted the messaging of the previous arc, as well as his ideals... Remember how that turned out? I think this whole Joyboy stuff is the same. Oda knows the kind of story he's writing and he knows his characters.
Yeah, I remember how that went. He used The Raid Suit the moment he needed it with little to no conflict. And then he used it again during the raid with little to no conflict. And then he had his fight with Queen where he had a chapter and a half of “conflict” before pretty much saying “oh well, at least I’m stronger”.
Yup, this 100% true, I remember the raid suite, I was on the side of he’ll only use it once just cause that kind of power up doesn’t make sense in this story it would basically ruin all of sanji’s fights from that point on but not many people saw it that way and sure enough oda just trashed it in such a good way too, using queen to be the audience going “raid suit raid suit raid suit” made me laugh, oda has never gone wrong in 20 plus years and the readers have almost always been wrong this is not different in my eyes.
That’s exactly how I want this to turn out. I want the hat to be connected to joyboy’s sole.. and possess luffy until luffy decides does he need a power up or go against his core wish and motivation “ freedom” then luffy destroys the hat as a symbol of freedom
Another great example of fate/luck favouring those who never give up is Luffy’s second loss to Crocodile. Yes, Luffy was incredibly lucky that the water bubble landed on him and restored his body. But that only happened because Luffy kept fighting even as Crocodile had him by the throat over the edge of the palace walls. If Luffy had simply accepted defeat in that moment, he would have died. But he kept fighting and in doing so gave himself the opportunity for a miracle.
@@PER578 I just went back and read it, and it's pretty ambiguous about whether it was intentional or not. It's pretty common to trick enemies like that in anime. Make it seem like you are attacking them while actually having an ulterior motive.
There is a flaw in such argumentation. Dismissing counterpoints/arguments before proposing your own intimates a lack of confidence in your own... even if you actually are. Proposing your points without first addressing dissenting opinions is a sign of either brashness or security in logic. If you consider counter points before engagement and let them play out, you've essentially laid a trap and already have a counter of your own, but rejecting or dismissing arguments prematurely can lead opponents to tweaking or adjusting their position by the time you've laid our yours. Let people walk into your counter, don't give them the time to develop a new argument or your just setting yourself back.
"Adresses" not "refutes". Anyone can refute an argument, you have to consider an argument from its strongest perspective to address it properly. In doing so, you are more likely to dig at the truth.
I trust oda tbh. When it comes to fight choreography, powerscaling consistency and pacing I think he can very occasionally be hit or miss, but I don't think he has ever fucked up an overarching story arc or the portrayal of said story arc's themes. We are coming up to the endgame stuff where Oda has been planning things out for 20+ years, can't imagine he doesn't have a plan
Powerscaling? He kind of had a rock paper scissors thing at first, devil fruits weren't a power boost then but just a method to make you harder to fight then it wasn't.
That's one thing. But the way he felt the need to say "then you are the one who doesnt believe in Oda, not me" indicates something that I've been seeing more and more in this community. The community holds Oda and the story up as if they are beyond reproach, and they'll behave like actual religious fanatics if you criticize anything
@@remus4283totally agree. It might be just me, but I feel like all One Piece youtubers have to filter out their thoughts a bit in their videos, or at least have to specify they think Oda is a great writer before criticising, just because the One Piece fandom cannot stand people giving criticism on One Piece. Which is sad because most of the criticisms they give are valid and doesn't even attack how great One Piece at all Even though One Piece is a great series and almost all of us put it in a pedestal, we have got to be better and realise Oda is also human and One Piece has things that can be improved on.
As a student of literature and lover of fantasy novels , i completely agree and i think oda is one of the greatest fantasy authors of this generation.i believe in oda but i really am anxious about what's coming.
Naaaaaahhhh It completely ruin a huge part of the series Just think about it Joyboy incarnation is the THE ONLY ONE who can obtain the one piece And now since the great oda has decided to show and confirm luffy is the one even tough the series is no where close to the end This has completely wrecked every pirate character villain or friend in the series Think about it Now law and kid shanks BB and the yonkos and the other pirates are meaningless They would be chasing something they have zero percent chance to get Oda has completely ruined them now they have been turned to just a plot device all thier effort are nothing now they are just there to put some meaningless long ass boring fight with luffy just for the sake of it With us already knowing that no where in hell luffy won’t get to the one piece nor he would have any problem of any sort now he is the only one who can get it
@@JorgePerez-xm2bf 1+1=2 right ? If something is a fact then do you need anyone opinion on it ? If I tell you it is a 3 and make an argument about it would you believe me ?
@@user-ls7pt2fd9l everything you described is true whether or not luffy is the chosen one. He's the main character, we already know all those other characters are destined to fail. The real problem is that oda has made "Freedom" the most important theme of the story, but freedom and destiny are contradictory. If oda can reconcile these concepts, it could be good. But, if he doesn't, then we have a very big problem. What's at stake is not the importance of other contenders for the one piece. It's a given that luffy will beat them. What's at stake is, what the hell does all this stuff about freedom and chasing your dreams mean if luffy's life was already set in stone from the beginning?
“Inherited Will, The Destiny of the Age, and The Dreams of the People. As long as people continue to pursue the meaning of Freedom, these things will never cease to be!" - Gol D. Roger”
More like "flow of the time/age", probably refering to generations and/or wills of people that won't be anihilated by others' control as the Government wants. So, yeah...
Literally quoting what Morj showed in the video while saying that every other translation uses a different phrase than "destiny of the age"... oh yeah, I'm sure you watched before commenting like a logical person right?
What makes Luffy the chosen one I'd argue is the fact is he goes against what fate or what everyone calls fate. When you say destiny isn't free, when it's only that freedom gives Luffy the power to change. With his dream's clouds being so big it can uplift the world. And a willpower to shatter the deathgrip the WG has on the world. Luffy is not the CHosen on, luffy Chose to be the one.
I like this, but you also have to remember that he isn’t actively choosing to “be the one”. He has stated plenty of times that he doesn’t care to be a hero, or to be king of anything. He simply wants to be free. So I guess what you said makes sense but it’s just slightly off
I think “inherited will” has been a theme in the story since the very beginning. In fact, it’s said in the very first opening song of the anime. And it’s always been obvious that the will of D is a power where someone in the D clan passes on their will to a new carrier. And Luffy has carried on Roger’s will. But Roger’s will isn’t about being a chosen one or being destined to be anything. It’s just his natural personality, belief in himself, courage, and relentless ambition to try for the impossible that led him to become the pirate king. And it’s those personality traits that are Roger’s will, not any sort of special strength, that are passed on to the next D, Luffy, and it’s those traits that make him the next king of the pirates too, not any sort of magic power that just automatically says he wins because he’s “the chosen one”. I thought Joy Boy was like the “Roger before Roger” whose will Roger inherited but I'm not so sure about that now and am curious again exactly what Joy Boy is. But the inherited will part is why the D clan is the enemy of the “Gods”. Because like White Beard said in his final speech, no matter how much they try to snuff out that tenacity they all carry, it’s always inherited by another who will continue the fight for good. I always thought that was quite beautiful too. It’s still not some sort of magic destiny that makes Luffy win, but that he possesses the same traits of someone who truly believed in himself and faced everything with no fear.
I think this discussion is a bit more simple than it looks. The main point is that as long as people dream, the "drums of liberation" are inevitable. I think that is not that Luffy is destined to achive whatever fate, but someone like him, with his dream and will power and characteristics (to make friends, to have fun, to love adventure, to risk it all for his dream) will inevitably do these things. In our story this happens to be Luffy. And for someone looking at him, at his "powers" it might very well look like the fate itself is guiding him. So Luffy will be the "chosen one" not because he is.. "chosen".. but because he chose to be Luffy.
love the video! I also appreciate how you adressed the "small fish in a big ocean"-theme in One Piece, because in the beginning it really is a basic shonen story about this small crew of pirates, that becomes bigger and more important because of their unbreakable will to archieve their goals and protect one another
The difference is that One Piece built up to this for ages while Kishimoto ass pulled it in the latter half of the last arc. One Piece is by far better written
- Hey, you're the child of destiny! - But I don't want to be the child of destiny! I want to have adventures with my nakama! - Fine, fine, you can have your adventures, could you just fulfill this little prophecy here on the way? - Sure. That's how it'll most likely play out. We're overthinking this.
Ok.. so in theory, the timeline for luffy's devil fruit goes like this.. - 800 years ago, someone named JoyBoy have the devil fruit ability in awakening states. And Zunesha only recognise JoyBoy by the sound of his heartbeat in his awaken state. - After JoyBoy passed away, several peoples have the devil fruit ability from time to time but unable to awaken the fruits power. - Rogers and his crews reached Laugh Tale and learn the true history, learned about JoyBoy and the prophecies. Maybe Rogers also know about JoyBoy's devil fruit abilities. - Rogers, before disbanded his crews, told Shanks about JoyBoy's prophecies. - Then, World Government got hold of that fruits and order Who's Who to guard that fruits. - Shanks able to steal that fruit from Who's Who and World Government punish Who's Who for losing that fruit. - Shanks and his crews travel around the world, maybe to find someone who worthy enough for the fruits on behalf of Rogers. - While Shanks at east blue, he meet luffy. - Luffy accidently ate that devil fruits and Shanks, knowing the fruits secrets, shocked. - Since then, Shanks put his bets and all his faith towards Luffy and willingly to sacrifices its own arm to save luffy. - Luffy manages to use his devil fruit at its maximum but still unable to awaken it. - After Kaido attacked, Luffy are clinically dead. The fact that Momo are unable to 'hear' Luffy, it presumed that he's dead. - While laying on the ground, the devil fruits is awaken and restart his heartbeat. His heartbeat are in awakening states and Zunesha recognise the sound of JoyBoy heartbeat and tell Momo thats he heard the 'Drum of Liberation'. Its just theory... based on multiple comment on RU-vid on chapter 1043. -
One issue, Shanks bets on Luffy and gives up his arm because of Luffy’s character! Not his devil fruit. Shanks tells Raleigh that he met a kid in the East Blue that “said the same thing as Roger” which is why Raleigh becomes interested in Luffy too. It’s not Luffy’s fruit that is important and connects him to Shanks, it’s his character.
@@AmendMD Imo it's both. By the time Luffy said something the same as Roger he already ate the DF. He bet on Luffy when he accidentally ate the DF by giving his arm and it was further solidified when Luffy said what Roger said. So Shanks has no regrets at all.
"Chosen one" stories aren't inherently bad or cliche. When they use the chosen one archetype as a deus ex machina, that's when story-telling because trite and cliche. The fact that Oda has hinted at this for hundreds of chapters indicates well thought-out storylines. I have faith that Oda will tie this in well.
There can really a lot be done with that. What of a chosen one turns evil, fails or is mistaken to become the real chosen one. Or wants to have nothing to do with it.
Never forget the simple fact that, if you're to quantify it numerically, Luffy's willpower, strength of character, and/spirit *overrides* any kind of prediction. This is important because, as anyone who has played Metal Gear Solid 1 knows, people's lives are not chained to fate. And they cannot allow themselves to be prisoners to their genetic "destiny." People are inherently *free* from such concepts, but only if they have the will to follow through with it and see it to fruition. Luffy's entire life has been about being free, and the concept of fighting for freedom, itself. "Fate" and "destiny" are shackles that he will *never* allow himself to be confined by. To think otherwise is to miss the point of the entire series.
I hope youre right, I hope oda makes luffy reject destiny to some degree because I think that only adds to luffys theme of freedom, as with this particular scenario he would be free from fate itself which is a powerful message that goes along with the narrative of the story so far.
@@voxomnes9537 If that's what that means, then yes. A person obviously cannot choose the world or body that they're born into, but they can control what they do with their life.
Joyboy isn’t necessarily a chosen one. Joyboy in the past was strong or whatever but they ended up losing the war? Just because he’s destined to be Joyboy doesn’t mean he’s automatically gonna solve everything. It’s just a inherited will and doesn’t make Luffy perfect
The issue being discussed here is more about the idea of destiny in general. It doesn't matter if he isn't going to solve everything. Morj is not talking about what being Joyboy entails. He's talking about the very idea of destiny being seemingly in contradiction with the central theme of the story. In other words, whether Luffy is destined to save the world or simply destined to eat more meat than anyone else, the issue is with the "destined" part, not the part that comes later.
I just want this video to age like a fine wine. Instead of aruging with pre-determined assumptions, Morj argues with pre-presented ideas in stories itself. Though, all the arguments can folly for all at the end. Its always wonderful to see someone in the community being rational and bringing sound arugments to the table. P.S. - I just want the REVERIE to happen so badly.
Really nice discussion and analysis again, Morj. 👏 I like how you iterated that foreshadowing isn't everything as well as the simple statements ppl made in arguing abt the destiny thing. Indeed saw a lot of fans get defensive this week bc of that chapter. I don't know how Oda will do it but I hope he'll be able to leap over that willpower vs destiny contradiction
I would love to watch this video right now brother but I’m on a roof working lol I accidentally clicked this video trying to get to the next part of my app 😂 looking forward to catching this later on, thanks Morj 😁
I'm a bit late to the party, but even just halfway in, I love the video so far. As someone who tends not to analyze too deeply what I'm reading, see it laid out like this is really great. And I love how instead of just talking about how this was predicted and such and such, you're actually talking about how the themes may not be exactly compatible.
It is painful to watch at times. Like just make your point dude. I'm here for an analysis, not just refuting a bunch of dumb points I've never heard. Not to say it's all irrelevant, like the last "objection" I think brought up an interesting discussion. My biggest criticism of Morj's videos (not just this one) is how much he repeats himself. It's like he's worried people didn't understand his point the first time, so he literally feels compelled to reword the same idea another four or five times without much else layered on.
@@Coffe789 i mean can u blame him? Majority of One piece fandom has always been bunch of 1 brain celled hypocrites, dickriding oda and jumping on conclusions with their "one piece is better than your series" superiority complex.
I still want to know what Dragon's connection to all this. He didn't become a pirate he became a outright rebel that challenges the the WG authority. Like, what does he know about Joy Boy and Laughtale or has he just observed the WG and the existing power structure and determined it to be evil?
Morj is always great at analyzing One Piece and present well formulated arguments. I personally think it's a bit of both will power and fate because from what the story has shown, fate is not always enough and it is not always in Luffy's favour which forces him to rely on his will power to challenge and overcome fate. It's a dance of will power and fate.
I feel like its the opposite. I don't think its his will power but instead fate that he relies on. Whenever his power isn't enough even though he has enough will power, fate steps in. Sort of like the video stated, but I don't think he relies on will power since the coincidences and lucky things that happen to him happen after he can't fight but is still actively trying to. idk cuz I feel like if Luffy were to be the embodiment of freedom that the story is making him out to be, there's no way he can be chained by the fate that is Joyboy. There might be a way that works for both, i just don't see it
There once was a man named Gold Roger, who was King of the Pirates. He had fame, power, and wealth beyond your wildest dreams. Before they hung him from the gallows, these were the final words he said: "My fortune is yours for the taking, but ONLY IF YOU WEAR THE STRAW HAT OF LEGEND, IF YOU ARE THE REINCARNATION OF AN IMMORTAL SPIRIT AND ATE THE RUBBER FRUIT. I left everything I own in One Piece FOR THIS SPECIFIC PERSON." Ever since, pirates from all over the world set sail for the Grand Line, searching for One Piece, the treasure that would make their dreams come true, BUT ONLY ONE OF THEM WAS DESTINED TO FIND IT SINCE THE VERY BEGINNING.
I remember the moment when Naruto undermined the message that got me into it in the first place. Naruto being a reincarnation of Ashura shattered the message of the "Naruto vs Neji" fight. I liked Naruto when he was clumsy and slow and had to work hard to master his inner potential (the 9 tailed fox being a metaphor for that) but then it became pre-ordained and that annoyed me. Things reached a high point around the Pain arc for me.
You misundtand Naruto. He was reveled to be a reincarnation yes but his ONLY destiny was to fight Sasuke and either he would die, Sasuke would die, or they both would. That was his destiny, and guess what? None of those ended up happening. Naruto changed his destiny because he refused to give up on his friend.So Neji was wrong because if destiny was set in stone on of those three outcome would've happened.
@@cliffbot638 That would serve the theme better if the destiny doesn't come up with a set of broken powerup. Also the fact that Kaguya and stuffs only introduced very late in the story didn't help either.
@@cliffbot638 He still turned out to be a demigod child of prophecy who's personality was past down to him from his past lives therefore meaning he isn't really his own person, just a vessal. he main theme f pre timeskip Naruto was that even a nobody can achieve great things if you work your ass off. Rock Lee was the perfect embodiment of that message and the got sidelined hard. Meanwhile Naruto went on to prove Neji right
THANK YOU for highlighting that willpower can be written as something to facilitate destiny + divinity and it doesn't *have* to be the other way around.. I think people have seen too many stories use destiny as a tool rather than an actual story element. Whether or not a trope is good or bad depends *entirely 100%* on who is deploying it where.
I'm not a writer, but as a professional creative, it boggles my mind to think that anyone can look at a story like this and think the creator is just one small step away from ruining his sensibilities at all times. Use your imaginations.
....so, given that luffy DID die.. does this confirm luffy was actually the one percent man Hawkins spoke of? And that one percent is this particular sequence of events lining up for his/joyboys revival?
I think the way Kaido said it best phrases Luffy's role in the story; "So you couldn't be Joyboy either." Luffy's journey to become Pirate King may have been part of a kind of test devised as a natural selection of who would be the best candidate to inherit the Joyboy title. We don't know how DFs were created but my theory is part of JoyBoy's journey was spent spreading DFs around the world so people who ate them would inherit a piece of his will, and those who not only exhibited similar qualities to what Luffy has; a happy, unbound spirit with intense determination driven by a passion or desire, but also reaching a certain threshold of power would come to inherit his name. But I know people are hung up over what the Gomu Gomu actually is, and while I think it's important, I don't necessarily think it has anything to do with being Joyboy's fruit. Either it was a DF altered by Vegapunk (so original I know) considering most rubber comprises of synthetic materials, or it's a new classification altogether like a mythic deity fruit or it's a natural counter to another fruit the WG wanted protection from. All of these unoriginal ideas for the Gomu Gomu would merely be a fulcrum for a means of Joyboy selecting a candidate, as piracy is a competition in and of itself that he may or may not have started to shape the perfect inheritor to succeed his will.
For an interesting concept perhaps the one "Destined" to save the world is the one who will never EVER compromise on their will and dreams. Less that luffy is the "chosen one" and more that the "destined savior" is someone like Luffy and that person could have been anyone like him who came into the right circumstances at the right time if that right time was 20 years ago it would have been Roger... If Sabo had slightly different circumstances perhaps he could have been Joy Boy.
Foreshadowing =/= development. Most people HATED in GoT when Danerys went all Mad Queen at the end even though there'd been foreshadowing for it. Foreshadowing is like a seed. You can't plant in chapter one, then show the reader a full-grown plant in chapter ten without showing it grow through the story and expect the reader to buy it. The seed of destiny HAS been planted through One Piece, but that doesn't mean it's justified to have it be the deciding factor on the story now. Especially when all mentions of fate/destiny come from other characters, while Luffy's philosophy seems at odds with the idea of destiny and its HIS destiny that's coming into play here. I just can't see Luffy being happy with the idea of being destined to be anything. Much less a hero. Heroes have to share their meat.
Why not, when he'd know that every decision he made, every action he took were of his own choosing. Desyiny is YOUR choice? That's all it is. Had Luffy and Naruto chose to sit on their asses and become kings neither would've had their dreams realized. But destiny recognized them because they weren't gonna have such lazy intentions. That's how they became chosen. This is why people don't understand about destiny. It's YOU who create your destiny, and it was the same in Naruto but fans missed it because they got lost on a word they don't understand. You were destined to write that comment on this channel, and I was destined to reply, but yet we both made the choice? That's how it works! That's real life shit and live destiny whether you wanna believe in it or not. What you'll do come new years eve 2023 is already written and you can't change that, YET! You will choose to do it because destiny says you will. That's how it works.
That's how we end up with "Naruto the self-made hypocrite". If Oda makes Luffy's story predestined and Luffy acts like it's fine, then he'll be no better than Naruto. And there are hints that Oda isn't above making a character inconsistent for the plot. Sanji using the raid suit is claimed to be a moment of character development, but really that's just cope to handle the fact that Sanji so easily overcame the trauma and baggage associated with that suit.
@@ZeroOne46 Everything yoou wrote is based on an incorrect definition of destiny, at least in this context. What we're talking about is PREDESTINATION, meaning that the events of the story are driven by a greater omniscient will, rather than the characters making decisions based on their past experiences and growing from the consequences.
@@remus4283 stop referencing that video, it's been debunked so many times and even the author of that video discredits it as just an unserious meme now. You don't have to come at naruto with unwarranted shenanigans just to venerate one piece
Incredible video. Very clear about your stance on basically everything important to the discussion. This is on par with “Why Oda is underrated (how to write)”. Keep making great videos Morj!
I will bet my life that Luffy is not possessed or reincarnated and that he doesn't has any resin or any other type of fruit... He had and will always have the gomu gomu no mi and that look at the last panel is just the awakening of his fruit which was only achieved by joyboy 800 years ago.... The reason it is so rare is because of the nature of this fruit... It is the hardest fruit to master and required an incredible will to compete with this rather silly fruit whereas all the other fruits in one piece world do not need such hardwork.... Yes at the end of the day the reason Luffy is special is because he ate the gomu gomu no mi but it wouldn't be worth jackshit if not for the unmatchable will of Luffy...
Yes Luffy is the chosen one, the special one and the destined one but it doesn't take away anything from the fact that Luffy had to work incredibly hard for where he is and where he will be in the future... Even if you had put anyone else in Luffy's place they couldn't have achieved what Luffy achieved with the devil fruit... Gomu gomu no mi can't free the world without Luffy's determination...
Agreed with everything except the Gomu Gomu being the hardest fruit to master We still have the Jacket Jacket no Mi, which don't get me wrong, i do believe Luffy Could still use it to the max and actually make it work out but that fruit should generally just be way harder to do anything with than any other Though Awakening could have some other mechanism/condition that makes it worse for the Gomu Gomu
@@justbny9278 by gomu gomu no being the hardest fruit to master what I meant was, the required potential to utilise the devil fruit to the maximum extent is the most difficult in the gomu gomu no mi when compared to any other devil fruit... Pushing the devil fruits power and utilisation is what makes it harder to master and to push the strength and utilisation of the gomu gomu no mi according to me is the toughest among any other devil fruit we've come across cause it requires strong will for each and every punch and move to be done by Luffy.
Who's fruit are the gorosei talking about tho? I agree with you expect for the fruits name. His fruit definitely has another name imo. Maybe Oda is trying to misdirect us but i doubt it.
@@bigpoppa3999 i do think that the gorosei are talking about Luffy's fruit and i believe that the original name of Luffy's fruit has to be related to the awakening state of Luffy's fruit 100% not a completely different name like resin or joyboy joyboy no mi
Just a thought on the jushi jushi no mi idea, the resin coating is essentially what allowed ships and people to travel under water. Considering luffy does have the ability to materialise it... wouldnt he become theonly DF user to be able to break the curse of sea? To be able to swim, survive, etc... underwater... just a thought!
I will never understand how someone can change their destiny. You don't know how your life will fold. If you reach a certain rough point in your life, and you make a certain decision to change it, and it works, you call that "challenging destiny, changing destiny".. Well, how do you know that the certain decision you took at that rough point in your life wasn't part of your destiny? Destiny isn't something you can change. Your destiny is predetermined whatever you do, because whatever you do , that's your destiny.
Oda is a devout Buddhist from what I know. As such, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he implements stuff such as karmic destiny or niyati. This would mean, of course, that luffy is a reincarnation of joy boy and that "predestined" events that happen with luffy are a result of his previous reincarnations' karma (including joy boy, maybe Roger, etc).
One of my very few fears regarding One Piece is that the story will resolve its plot and themes through some means that will not seat well with the western audience. The reality is that different cultures have different values and philosophical frameworks. Here in the western world we strongly believe in freedom and free will, probably thanks to ancient greece's heritage (even our religions for the most part put a strong enphasis on individual freedom and individual salvation). For what i understand the eastern world's beliefs work in a pretty different way, but to be honest I am not that knowledgeable on that so maybe I am wrong
@@lemme3295 Naaaah It is not about a (culture) my buddy A story is a story All of anime and manga in the world are exclusively Japanese made and they are the top most sold and loved comics\series in the world If the cultural difference is a problem then Manga and anime won’t be as nearly as popular Using an excuse as cultural diffrence to somehow justify oda writing problems and mistakes and weak story is plain stupid and dump
@@user-ls7pt2fd9l i am not using cultural differences as an excuse, I would hate if One Piece went down a reincarnation/predestination road without any interesting spin on it. I agree with you, I would find that a pretty lame story. The point i was making is that, expecially regarding philosophy, different sociaties have different ideas. Look at how Naruto's ending was perceived differently between Japan and the west. People have different ideas on what free will is, on reincarnation and on fate. So depending on your personal belief which is vastly influenced by your culture, you may like or not like what a story is trying to tell you
I believe that Luffy is not Joyboy because he was born to be, I believe that through Luffy's determination and unwillingness to give up, he unlocked the potential to be Joyboy. It's not about destiny or fate, anyone can be the reincarnation of Joyboy or Joyboy's will, they just need to possess the power of unbreakable will for Joyboy to manifest within them. As if the will of Joyboy or the soul chose Luffy once he proved himself, there was never a pre-determined path. More importantly, Luffy so happened to live in a time where the factors aligned for him to then take that mantel and go further than anyone has before. Luffy is luckier than Roger because Roger was born too soon and although Roger had the potential to awaken Joyboy from within, it was not the right time for him to do so and so Joyboy never manifested. Luffy chose his own path and by doing so, through all the events in the story, he unlocked Joyboy. I've never viewed Joyboy as a person, the mythos around this 'being' suggests Joyboy is something more. An idea. A dream. A will. A symbol. And for Luffy to inherit Joyboy's will and for the soul of that will and power to manifest within him still aligns with the themes of One Piece based on what I have written above. It's as if Joyboy waited for the right person to come along at the right time, a gamble on the future, crazy odds on it happening. And, I believe Roger learned of this at Laughtale and thus decided to spark the next generation of pirates in order to better Joyboy's chances. After all, nothing is pre-determined and fated, and everything is up to the chaotic chance of life. A gamble against insane odds which is a bet that Roger has never been known to refuse. When Shanks told Whitebeard that he gambled his arm on the future, I believe that this relates to what Roger told him during Oden's flashback. This brings me to my last point: One Piece is about gambling your dreams, life and the inherited wills of others against the unpredictable and chaotic world that often squashes those and makes you out to be a fool. I don't believe in fate in gambling, it's luck and skills and it's up to you when to cash out. It's easy to see luck as fate, and that's been something prevalent in One Piece since the beginning.
I like the idea of you having to die to become joy boy because what if Kaidos backstory is him becoming stronger and stronger and surviving at any cost to become joy boy only to find out you have to die to become joy boy and then no matter how hard he tries he cant die. So him trying to become joy boy is the very reason he cant be and the only reason luffy can
I've always thought that the Woop Slap scene was partially Oda expressing that it's Luffy's fate BECAUSE HE'S A FICTIONAL CHARACTER and Oda is the writer. A little meta
Wow... Finally a smart youtuber that talks real stuff about everything Oda has done.... And not just brambles about bs for an hour with stupid theories and stuff that has never been mentioned or they just imagine....
Idk why but I have a strange Idea, that Ace was a choosen one, but he died becouse he didn't have will to live. Eventually, Luffy wasn't a choosen one but he became one due to his desire to be a pirate and achieve his goal . But I believe that it's just another silly idea.
I share that theory. Ace had all of the indicators and story beats of someone with a great destiny. The only son of the Pirate King, carrying on the Will of D, an underdog the world hates who sailed out on his own in search of his dream, the adoptive son and commander of the great pirate Whitebeard, with great people around him who also believe in his ambition. And then he made a mistake and died. His death ultimately shook the balance of power in the world, but he failed to be the chosen one. This story is full of failed or tragic aspiring chosen ones - Moria, Kaido, Oden to name just a few.
Except that luffy is a litteral incarnation of joyboy not some bullshit metaphor for a chosen one or a poetic scene like how you describe it to be No one else but luffy can be the chosen one no matter how much they try or how strong thier will is cause it is a matter of physical incarnation he litterly started changing his hair and everything
@@user-ls7pt2fd9l Give me the source where it is confirmed that Luffy is Joyboy incarnation. And there have been theories from years on Luffy being Joyboy, you were just blind. Luffy was always the chosen one: Chapter 1, page 56 : "His boat floats on the ocean, his crew yet to be found... Luffy sets out on his voyage of *destiny* "
@@glory1950 Bruuuh ! Seriously you are asking this question?? This is the dumbest thing ever the last chapter litterly says he is joyboy 😂😂 It is a fact now deal with it Luffy is joyboy manifestation And since luffy was the chosen one all this time That means the whole motives and ambition of all the pirates such as BB and shanks And kid and the yonkos and every pirate ever is gone Cause now it is confirmed that they are useless and they are only there to extend the plot and serve as cash grab and an excuse to put more chapters and fights only to lose in the end one way or another
I think people misunderstand what Destiny means in One Piece context, Roger's quote in Ch 100 is that as long as people seek freedom oppression is DESTINE to fall. We've seen it all throughout the series and will climax with the Celestial Dragons getting kicked off their throne, after 800 years they are destine to fall As for Chosen One depends what he Will of D even is, people keep claiming Luffy is super special but what makes Luffy different from his family or Law or Xebec or Saul? Why even have all these families if only one bloodline matters, so I think people are overreacting with the chosen one stuff, Zunisha was probably just commenting on Luffy's strong will to live and save everyone since that's what we've been seeing of him for the whole series. He's the biggest enemy to oppression
I think Oda will put a twist in this chosen one narrative. What if Luffy is the chosen one, he was destined for greatness but after this awakening and meeting with Joy Boy, he decided to carve his own path with the future no one knows about.
I trust Oda will address this destiny theme, likely making it a conflict for Luffy to personally go through. I like the idea that it’ll be the central conflict between him and Shanks. With Shanks already established as someone that is meticulous, maintaining the balance, and pulling strings to influence the world, it wouldn’t surprise me that he chose Luffy and has set him on a path to being Joyboy and Luffy will have to fight back against that.
I fucking love you for saying that these uncritical morons are the actual people who don't have faith in oda. I had a frustrating conversation with someone in the comments of your last video lol
I don't think Destiny is somethings set in stone, because if it was Luffy should've died years ago. But he didn't because he showed that you can change your destiny in a way through your will. So honestly Destiny is more like a River with 2 diverging paths. One path is failure, the other is success. And people say "well that still means your path is set because once you choose a path you can't go back". Well yes that's true but the thing about rivers is that they can be diverted. So even if you end up on a path, you can divert it to the other one. Now that takes a whole more work than necessary and in most cases it will feel impossible, but that is what separates Luffy. Luffy is the one the most willing and thus the most capable of diverting his failures to Ultimate success. Now, those on the path of success are destined for greatness, but they never said how to get there.
Luffy even states at Sabaody that the one with the most freedom is the Pirate King in his opinion. Following him as a protagonist really demonstrates how the story is about beating chance or even fate by sheer willpower to become free at a point, where you can decide about your fate completely on your own
@@daddy_1453 that would still be bad, as the conflict of Wano has been built up so much, if it was resolved by a last minute ultimate transformation it would be very bad, specially cause it isn’t really Luffy doing it. This is exactly what happened with nightmare Luffy, but first; Thriller Bark was a side story, really small scale conflict and in general not the same build up as Wano, which made its resolution not as important.
If the raid doesn't fail, Morj should do a 30 minute long video seriously powerscaling OP characters to other anime characters. Punishment fits the crime! Thoughts?
Fate and free will are not always contradictory. I believe that someone was always fated to eat the Hito Hito no mi Model: Nika but only someone with a powerful individual will could awaken it and thus the spirit and powers of Joy Boy and Nika. And yes, part of that fate is his lineage.
I completely agree, the "chosen one" angle is contradictory to the rest of the themes. One piece has always been about one's own will power being triumphant over what seems to be their destiny.
Thanks for the video Morj!! Great vid and were extremely clear at the beginning with the explanation of the thematic vs other types of contradictions which should help others get your point
If Luffy is the chosen one, I hope we don't have people overreacting and saying it ruins the whole series. Things that have nothing to do with being the chosen one: -wanting to become a pirate -building his crew and inspiring other people (i.e. Coby, Momo, Weak-hoshi) -the wills he inherited -all the suffering he went through (shortening his lifespan, losing his crew, having his brother die in front of him) -amazing moments like ringing the bell in skypiea or when he remembers his crew on Amazon Lily (post-war arc) -all the training he did with Rayleigh, Katakuri, and Hyogoro (plenty of non-chosen-ones get as powerful or more powerful than Luffy). -his originality in combat (weird moves he came up with, his gears) -Saving people and overturning corrupt rulers -being a generally good dude (chosen ones don't need to be good guys, luffy chose to be that on his own) -and much much more Regardless, i agree with Morj. If Luffy is the chosen one, that just gives Oda the opportunity to turn that revelation on its head and strengthen the original major themes that otherwise conflict with Luffy being a "chosen one".
@@janetthomas4835 If we're already told it is, it *is* , man xD It's the same "problem" though: it *depends* on how Oda will manage to make it "special", so it doesn't have to be a bad thing... per se.
Naaaaaahhhh It completely ruin a huge part of the series Just think about it Joyboy incarnation is the THE ONLY ONE who can obtain the one piece And now since the great oda has decided to show and confirm luffy is the one even tough the series is no where close to the end This has completely wrecked every pirate character villain or friend in the series Think about it Now law and kid shanks BB and the yonkos and the other pirates are meaningless They would be chasing something they have zero percent chance to get Oda has completely ruined them now they have been turned to just a plot device all thier effort are nothing now they are just there to put some meaningless long ass boring fight with luffy just for the sake of it With us already knowing that no where in hell luffy won’t get to the one piece nor he would have any problem of any sort now he is the only one who can get it
I’m sure everyone will be pissed they are reading a simulation. Element of surprise in a story is amazing. Knowing what will happen and just following the stale bread crumbs are dry
@@Treeskid1 Not to mention the fact that characters like shanks and BB and the whole pirates are meaningless without goal since the writer confirmed that luffy is the destined chosen one The only man who can obtain the one piece
~Spoilers sort of~ As a tangent, Oda shows the Hand of Destiny/Fate as events defined by a nexus of men's intersecting wills/dreams. It's never just coincidence. The most trodden examples being the events surrounding Blackbeard and Luffy from Mock Town well into Marine Ford. Luffy's narrow escape at Mock Town sets up Ace's capture which leads to Luffy softening up Impel Down accidentally allowing Blackbeard to infiltrate and complete his crew which lets Blackbeard accidentally return the favor at the Gates of Justice. That's the hand of fate. Events brought into being by men's wills overlapping into the infinite causal chain. But NOTHING will top the WG ultimately being the catalyst for the Nika Awakening. That's straight up a man meeting his fate on the road he took to avoid it.
At the end of the day the fact is destiny is a clear part of the story. Like it or not. And frankly if you drop one piece simply because you misunderstood how destiny works? You probably never liked it that much to begin with 🤷 I'm loving this development for Luffy so I trust Oda knows what he's doing.
@@ZebecZT it's been set up and foreshadowed since the start that Luffy is special but now all of a sudden people wanna bitch because he might slightly be a product of fate or something? That's just dumb if you ask me but aye. Whatever. Y'all can think what you want. I still am fine with this and think people are bitching for no reason and only started this argument because they hate what happened in Naruto 🙄😒
@UCbvcN-Ew5xrIg99mRyYJSuQ he's the son and grandson of two of the most powerful and influenced men in the world. He has all three forms of Haki. He's got a special devil fruit. He's favored by shanks. He was sworn brothers to Ace Seriously if you can't see all the on the wall writing that Luffy is special im convinced you just don't understand wtf you are reading and are one of those people who just wanna bitch because you don't like Naruto 🙄😒 so whatever. Y'all are a waste of time and energy
@@Gamerlord17 Your all arguments are simply meaningless. Assume timelines in which Luffy is son of dragon but paralysed like Stephen Hawking. Is he special? Nope. The special part is his personality as morj says.
@@IndiaTides y'all act as if Luffy would still be in the position he's in right now if he simply did nothing all story and stayed on Dawn island. Seriously y'all are annoying as fuck
My take on fate in regards to Luffy is that it's not this predestined thing but rather a culmination of his entire journey. His disposition, his drive, the friends and allies he has made, his choices and so on. Yes, there are factors that were completely out of Luffy's control but as they say "you play the hand you have been dealt". This brings to mind the discussion when it came to light that Zoro may be related to a famous samurai clan. People talking like it somehow cheapens Zoro's goal to become the world's greatest swordsmen. Zoro, just like Luffy, has been putting in the work this whole time.
i think that the idea of "THE CHOSEN ONE" is whoever reaches, for exemple in matrix neo is supposedly the chosen one, but nothing states that specifically neo is the ONE, it's just that neo checks all the boxes of the chosen one, anyone else that also checked the boxes would fit and be labeled as the one just as much.
I think the biggest misconception(in both naruto and now one piiece) is that free will and destiny are by necessity a contradiction. No one forced luffy to become a pirate. No one forced him to take the hard route. No one decided his dreams for him. And it was his sheer will and belief in his dream that carried him through. Same with naruto. What these stories are saying isnt that our nature is bad and we should only rely on our nurture. What they are saying is that through will and determination, by sticking to your principles you will discover things about you you didnt even know. Both naruto and luffy became the "chosen" ones because they did exactly that. Another story that delivers that message even better than either imo is hellboy.
