The older I get the more I realize hironobu sakaguchi has influenced tons of media that I consumed growing up and I hope as time goes on he gets a credit he deserves for the work he has done.
I mean he definitely does. His name is synonymous with one of the biggest and most influential franchises in gaming. It’s not like he’s some little known behind the scenes figure.
"I think Aki's hot." - Casen Sperry, 2024 For real though, love that you guys are covering this. Curious if either of you have ever watched Final Fantasy Unlimited.
This movie has a special place in my heart. It's not a great movie by any means, but the fact that they made a big budget movie, with all of that high end actor talent tied to the voices, and with Final Fantasy in the title was a big deal to me back in high school.
I really enjoyed the brief VFX segment at the end, it didn't overstay its welcome, it was brief and informative. I know it's not the primary focus of the podcast but I wouldn't mind if you guys did it more with games or movies where it's pertinent, especially when something is done particularly well or bad by your estimations. For single episode podcasts I recommend Papers Please and Return of the Obra Dinn by Lucas Pope, they are short games and both can be finished in 1 sitting (a couple of hours or less if you know what to do). Although they are not that heavy either thematically or in terms of writing, as they lean more into fictional history and a serviceable "basic" plot. But I still think they are worth talking about in a short format
I still like modern Square but now they JUST feel like a great software company. The Square of the late 90's felt a finger snapping juggernaut with complete chad energy with insane creative ambition you couldn't help but laugh admire/remember fondly.😂 The setting of FFX is totally unique in fiction nevermind gaming. Square was Playstation in ways, symbolised a lot of the other wild creativity coming out, even the demo disc music and menus/backgrounds bleed tripiness.
all settings in ff are unique and while ffx holds a special place in my heart it was the beginning of the end. ffix was the last true final fantasy. the setting of ffviii was also more unique than ffx. both are a cluster fucks but ffviii sells you so much better the illusion of a huge world. ffx was the first ff where the world felt like one long dungeon consisting of one way. they also kinda failed with the antagonist. seymour is very forgettable and therefore the whole climax suffers. doesn't even come close to a Sephiroth or Edea.
In Lovelock's first book on the Gaia Hypothesis, he does lean into what is now referred to as "hard Gaia", a strong version of the theory that suggests Earth acts as a living thing. He backed away from this later, as it was trashed by most scientists. Some work is still being done on weaker versions of the theory which have merit. Been looking into it all recently myself, what a huge coincidence that this episode comes out.
I was obsessed with this film when it came out. I had it on DVD and would watch it constantly. I loved the sci-fi combined with spirituality but also... Steve Buscemi! Going to have to dig it out.
I did too and the CGI looks better than a lot of sci-fi anime 20 years later (Ghost in the Shell SAC 2045, Blade Runner Black Lotus, Blame!, Appleseed etc.). Trigun Stampede looks great though.
I saw this movie in theaters when it first came out. I thought it was quite good at the time and I wasn't that familiar with Final Fantasy. Then years later I hear it was a financial bomb and reviewed poorly. There's no way to tell what movies are going to become popular, unpopular, or popular for the wrong reasons. Hindsight is completely different from what you experience in the moment
The Mass Effect connection is wild to hear, because every time I play an ME game, I name my Shepard after "Gray" from Spirits Within. For no reason in particular other than I liked the name and Shepard just kind of reminded me of that character from a design standpoint, and I like that particular "generic scifi soldier man" aesthetic.
I remember when I heard they were making a final fantasy movie. All I could think about was a final fantasy 7 movie. Little did I know that would come later.
I always wonder if they got Nomura's help on this whether it would still be such a flop. I feel like Nomura's style flare and mysticism coupled with Sakaguchi's down to earth storytelling were a match made in heaven and one is often lacking the additions of the other. Take Advent Children, popular but often criticised by fans for being too action focused and obtuse with the characters. AC and Spirits Within seem to be two polar extremes of many of the things we like about Final Fantasy
To be frank this channel and almost every video is so well crafted and prepared I feel at home as a millenial who grew up with these games. Glad to see normal, healthy adults have genuine conversations about the intellectual, philosophical and psychological aspects of said games while reminiscing in nostalgia and trying to be objective about the subject at hand. Often these days you get dissed by Gen Z for not enjoying shallow content. For instance I get regularly bashed online on a specific topic: for preferring the Zelda Classic formula to the New Breath of the Wild formula of the last two games, because story suffered due to linearity being eliminated, and god do I ride with story over gameplay. This is not something I think will happen on this channel. Nobody will overzealously defend FF15, FF16 or whatever is new and around the corner. People will generally try to look beyond the hill and the qualities of what made media great and not be subjective just because something is trendy and new. So I am thankful a channel like this exists where deeper things are analyzed and where a search for meaning actually is the point. So thanks for the videos guys!😊
Could not wait to sit and watch this when it was first recommended to me the other day, now I can’t wait for y’all and Max Derrat to collaborate on planescape. I am slowly going through ffx along side y’all’s podcast, I may just jump ship and do planescape as episodes come out.
I didn't realize Elliot Goldenthal composed the score for this! I know him for doing the Alien 3 score, which is the best part of that movie and honestly my favorite score of that franchise by far.
i kept rewatching this when i finally got a copy years ago. i just liked the look of the army dudes. Hearing you guys' talk about it is a pleasant surprise.
Damn, this was a happy surprise. Great Episode. Anytime you guys talk about production struggles and all the interview stuff its nice. You scrounge a bunch of info i never knew about it. Much appreciated
Hey. I discovered your channel in 2019 for final fantasy content. Thank you for making a video for final fantasy the spirits within. I loved this movie as a kid for its ground breaking animation at the time.
Fascinating as always fellas, I too, came away with very little from this film. You guys really hit your stride towards the back end there with all this tying together with philosophy and symbolism, it made me start appreciating the film vicariously! You've actively made me want to give it another spin.
Hey, since you will be talking about other stuff until the Planescape podcast, which I'm very excited about, a fascinating movie you could take a look at is the 2008 Speed Racer live action. Even though it's not a "filosofficial movie", more like a fun kids movie, it is a amazing work of art and it would be really interesting to see your view of it.
I remember seeing this movie in theaters when I was 11 and it scared the hell out of me lol. Coming off of FFIX, the movie was not at all what I expected, the horror elements especially took me off guard and at the time I reacted negatively to horror.
I was so hyped for this film. I was a recent convert to the whole Final Fantasy phenomenon. Had played 7, 8 & 9, knew everything about the first 6 thru the nascent internet, and was looking forward to 10. Made my parent take me. And if I came out of it befuddled, God only knows what they thought. I don’t hate it tho. I’ll take a failure that wears its hearts on its sleeve like this over pandering nothings like Advent Children and Kingsglaive. Despite being a box office bomb, I think this film has subtly influenced cinema, especially in its visual design. And as you go through the film, I keep thinking of Death Stranding! Film was also cool for having Steve Busemi, Ving Rhames and Peri Gilpin from Frasier in it! And Elliot Goldenthal’s music is amazing, as it always is
I know this isn't your typical thing, but I'd love to see you guys take on some old school anime films. I have an obvious bias with Leiji Matsumoto, who informed so much of what you guys discuss on the channel with regards to Japanese scifi storytelling. He puts the Opera in Space Opera!
Squaresoft building their own movie studio to make one movie is just so emblematic of one of their biggest self-imposed problems. It's a mindset that they seem to feel like they always have to start from scratch and build everything themselves from scratch rather than ever make use of resources that already exist that would reduce production time or costs. And a lot of the time, they won't even re-use THEIR OWN assets. It's insanity. They recently said that doing a remake of FF6 would take them 15-20 *years.* Good grief, these guys need to get a grip and learn when to dial back ffs.
Actually, I think the movie was more hated in the United States because it was heavily bombarded by the media in a very savage way, probably due to the irrational fear that CGI would replace actors. We all know what the power of castes can do. In other countries, the movie was not poorly received. The movie looks good, has good music, a good story, etc.
Hearing you mention Planescape: Torment just makes me think how much you would probably enjoy Disco Elysium! I would love so much to hear your thoughts and analysis for that one too.
With how many games square had in the works all at once, it's really amazing how well they all turned out. FF 9 and 10 are pretty universally loved, 8 is a bit polarizing but I think the overall feeling on it is still mostly positive, 11 I've never played but people who did seem to like it, and the I felt the ports of their old games to PS1 game out reasonably well. Really the movie is the only thing that went poorly.
This was a very interesting view on the movie, and indeed what's behind the scenes explains a lot of things better and the possible intention for it. It kinda makes want you guys to approach the Final Fantasy Unlimited anime, it had a lot of issues too and was unsuccessful but it did carry a lot of core elements from final fantasy that I found amusing. It even got a couple of novels to expand the story too.
I love this movie because the design of the movie it’s basically a game where you find the spirits and at the end you fight the final boss and Aki becomes a final summon to fight the last boos
There was a short movie included in the Animatrix short film compilation that was produced by Square Film studio. Other than that and the Spirits Within I don't think they produced anything else.
You guys should cover more games/movies that were poorly received, but had a really good premise. This made me appreciate the movie more. What else did I miss out on by only judging things surface level? I've enjoyed some really average to bad games/movies where I knew it could've been a better experience if they just tweaked some things. I'd like to hear what games or movies you guys enjoyed that could be considered mediocre to bad.
The episode I didn't know I needed. Thanks for reviewing this guys! A couple of episodes I'd like to see if possible would be Never ending story and Akira.
Spirits Within is legit quite go-... well, it isn't bad. I like it, but I know it isn't amazing and it doesn't need to be. Yes, the money and corporate drama and the overall reputation, but there's something about it. I honestly find it quite watchable. The music though, is stunning. I unironically listen to the soundtrack every now and then. I'd almost like to see some kind of remake that irons out more of the basic film-making issues, but keeps much of it the same perhaps.
The idea is there if they just worked out some kinks in the story and maybe didn't try to crunch it into an hour and a half or whatever it'd be alright
I had never played the game that you guys were about to cover so I was pleasantly suprised to see this 😊. I may still check the game out but now I have some time lol
Would you guys consider covering the Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind manga? I realize you two have previously analyzed the film, however the manga is another beast entirely, with a different story, characters and ending. It would be amazing to see you two cover the manga in its seven volume entirety!
Will be skipping this week since I haven't seen this movie, but I'm sure I'll come back to it someday once I have. Some of your videos (ex. Nier Replicant) I've waited years until viewing for the first time after finally playing the game. Planescape Torment is a game I bought 5+ years ago and didn't get far in. I'll view this as an opportunity to hopefully finally start it up for real. May be the first of your games that I will be able to truly follow in the book club format playing along at the same rate you get through it.
Funnily enough, while there are spoilers in the podcast, it might be worth watching this before the movie. During the podcast Mike & Casen helped each other find some meaning in the story they initially missed, which even the DVD commentators said would be difficult to know just by watching the movie alone. Casen at least plans to rewatch after the episode with a new frame of reference.
@braydenb1581 I don't love the film but I can see all the potential that it could have had. The cast was great. The dialogue needed work. The setting, concept, and ideas were great, the execution was not. The music, the aliens, the protagonist, great. The antagonist was not. And as they were saying, some of the Hollywood filmmaking conventions watered down what could have been a rich story. I think if it had been Final Fantasy 11 for the PS2 instead of Spirits Within, it would have been a more complete story and one of the best games on the system
@braydenb1581 the most fun part of this movie is talking about what it could have been. And how if they had only waited 4 or 5 years, the production cost of this thing could have easily been cut in half
I went to the cinemas to watch this. I also love the music video Larc en Ciel made for the movie. I remember all the normies enjoying the movie. Only the people who were FF fans hated it because it didn't look like FF.
Welp. You convinced me that I need to watch the movie so I went out and bought it. Haha. So kudos to you for that! Hmm. In terms of recommendations for one offs, maybe childhoods end?
I actually rewatched this movie some 3 or so months back. Part way through the movie I kinda forgot I was watching something final fantasy until more toward the end of the movie when the Gaia stuff starts to really come to forefront. I have a friend who was told by his dad that this movie was related to VII and upon rewatching the movie I see how his dad could think that lol
Thanks for the Spirits Within Recap/Analysis! I'll never forget this movie from my childhood. I was on vacation in Malaysia (I'm a Canadian-born Chinese in my 30s now) about 9 years old with nothing to do in my relative's house. Going to the movies and seeing this movie which was my first exposure to a Final Fantasy property, really gave me something to latch onto while ruminating and pacing in my room dealing with my ADHD and PTSD. Maybe I'll rewatch it sometime. I appreciate the general duality and interactions between the themes of pro-nature and pro-human Capitalism. Very reminiscent of FF7! Great job!
This was a great episode! I love these one-off film analyses you guys do and I think they're great to drop in between series of game episodes or even more! I don't consider this to be "filler" at all
Even the Hyperdimension Neptunia games Square-Enix insert has her whole character arc based on the assumption that the movie killed Squaresoft and Enix had to step in, which I still find very funny.
Hey guys! Since you are about to tackkle Planescape:Torment, consider playing it with the Unfinished Business mod installed, since it replaces many things that modders found in the games files, but that the devs hadn't managed to incorporate into the final game due to their deadlines. Love from Greece!
I only watched this movie shortly after it came out when I was barely a teenager. I remember not liking it that much (at the time I was already very much into FF) but haven't seen it since and haven't really thought much of it either. Reading the vid description it seems like you agree that it isn't that good but made the effort to engage with it and found something worth discussing despite its faults. That's pretty much my favorite type of analysis to listen to so I'm looking forward to this! Also, I've never been interested in Planescape Torment despite owning it for years but your pitch is just... You are trying to match the depth of your Xenogears series AND will have Max Derrat over????? At least give me a choice lol there's no way I'm not playing it now!
I'm not sure the timing works for Kingdom Hearts having been significantly reworked in response to the reception of Spirits Within - the latter was released July 2001, and KH released March 2002, roughly 8 months later. I can certainly believe that Sakaguchi's view was influenced by the path Spirits Within was heading down, even if the full reaction hadn't confirmed that view yet. I also had/have a slightly different take on the movie's ending - I focus more on the alien spirit - the phantoms, and the Xenogaia fragment itself, are stuck in a cycle of rage and grief, reliving the trauma of death, until they finally find a way to let go - the 8th spirit, a phantom spirit, finds the "promise of new life", and, turning to embrace the future, lets go of the trauma of the past - stops obsessing over the war and moves on - both ready for rebirth, and, with the completion of the spirit wave, and the new compatibility with Gaia, actually able to be reborn at last.
Made it to the end of the video, my initial thoughts on suggestions for some quick episodes going forward lean into some of the more thoughtful, shorter horror games like Amnesia and Signalis, or "lesser known" ones like Haunting Ground or Rule of Rose. Something like Baroque would be interesting, which seriously feels like what would happen if you could make a game out of pure symbolism. Valentine's day is coming up. Catherine? As for movies, you could pick a Ghibli one out of a hat, or do something else classic like Ghost in the Shell. Really, what I'd be most interested in seeing is just whatever is inspiring you guys or making you feel passionate lately, I'm curious to hear your perspectives on pretty much anything.
I want to see the different timeline where this film inspired lifelike adult animation to hit the cinema big beyond Pixar and Dreamworks fare. The Marvel craze doesn't count. Its very Eastern and beyond its time still in terms of what it expects from the audience.
When I first saw the film I was definitely in that group of being disappointed how little it tied to the series, and that if it were named something else it might've done much better. The marketing really hurt it. Now I think slightly better of it, as a somewhat entertaining CG stepping stone. I also think the concept of the spirits was... quite terrifying? Ghosts that can go through walls that RIP OUT AND DEVOUR YOUR SOUL just by touching you? Overpowered nightmare fuel.
Been busy for the last year or so. Haven’t had a lot of free time to invest I this sort of stuff. What a wonderful upload to find when I had a few hours to kill. Thanks for the consistent great content. I can’t wait to catch up.
Also for one episode movie suggestions Robert Egger´s the lighthouse is soooooooooooooooooooo full of symbolisms that id love to see you two scholars take a crack at it because im sure a lot flew over my head.
