Information from the comment: To get this dialogue, you need go to Ketheric's bedroom and the Mausoleum to find out about Ketheric family and history. And thanks for watching! Consider yourself to subscribe if you want to see more video like this. It will means a lot to me 😄
- Surrender Ketheric, fight by my side with evil. - No, it's too late for me, for my redemption. - But i have a pictures of Spider-Man. - You son of a b.... I'm in!!!
One has to be honest about it : serving three different deities in a single lifetime (First Selune, then Shar, then Myrkul) gave Ketheric a VERY peculiar insight of how godhood works in the Forgotten Realms, and how deities interact with each other. I mean, think about it : he served two sisters who simply won't get along, period. He saw both sides of the coin. And then he joined Myrkul, a more "neutral" deity, but still hellbent on bringing forth the apocalypse. And he DID give everything he had to prove himself worthy...with Myrkul being the only one to listen. THIS is horrendous. Ketheric Thorm dutifully served two of the most powerful deities of the whole Toril pantheon, and they discarded him as if he was worthless. And when he turned to Myrkul was the only time his patron deity actually answered. Ketheric Thorm was a pawn to Selune, then Shar, for decades, to no avail. It was all pointless, yet my man broke his vows TWICE, for two deities constantly fighting each other, and it cost him his wife AND his daughter. Name a more tragic villain.
I think that's the reason WHY he was treated like a pawn, though. He wasn't loyal. He abandoned everything the moment he experienced loss, even as he inflicted that same loss on others.
Ketheric's tragedy was being obsessed with control over his mortal life; he could serve the gods but only as long as he felt like he was actually getting the better end of the deal. He forgot the Selune kept his wife and daughter, that he would be reunited with them in the afterlife. It is not a hollow promise in the Forgotten Realms - the soul genuinely does live on. Only gods who have cruel agendas will generally just trade you power and favors like that in the mortal world, because they have no rewards for you in the afterlife.
This right here is why the lead singer from Green Day and crazy Margot Robbie should not have been the final villains. Ketheric could have (should have) been the BBEG before the final fight. He had everything he needed and was so much better.
I have to say, the build up to Moonrise was the most intense thing the first time I played this game. The fact we got this for all the hard work is just so crazy Love you Larian ❤
It’s shocking how much of a grasp ketheric has on this game despite not making it to the end. You’d think he was the main villain with how much presence he has
Tav: It isn't too late, Ketheric. There is always a chance for repentance, for atonement. Let me help you walk a better path. Aylin: *I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass. And I'm all. Out. Of bubble gum.*
It’s not Myrkul himself it’s pretty much like an angel of Myrkul as said by the name of thrall you fight. It also doesn’t make sense for the literal god to come to the earthly plain just to fight you for killing his chosen, and then be killed so easily.
@@treygc3291 Its an avatar of myrkul. Gods in dnd like myrkul don't actually have a "physical" body. Despite this they can manifest avatars which act as their physical body (usually through a major ritual or very specific conditions). Destroying an avatar will disperse and weaken a deity for a time but it can be restored through a long period of time or other circumstances. The thing before you is myrkul, but a fraction of his real being (like a finger or hand compared to the entire body) allowing you to defeat him (Keep in mind myrkul is quite low on the divine totem pole and as a result his avatar is not that strong, an avatar of a lesser god like tiamat is said to be able to wreak havoc across the world. The reason he (and every other god) are not manifesting in full powered avatars is the ungodly amount of collateral damage it could cause, massive breach of divine rules, and a major disruption in the balance of things like good/evil or chaos/law. Also considering deities need mortals to act in their name and have faith to maintain and gain power, and myrkul being a quasi deity (the weakest type of "true" divinity) killing the chosen champion (a loyal and relatively competent one to boot) of the probably very small group of cultists he has left is something he would somewhat care about.
@@treygc3291 It is Myrkul himself, though he acts through an avatar. An avatar in FR is a means thorugh which a deity can enter the mortal world. The Slayer was likewise, an avatar of Bhaal. They are very powerful, but not at all comparable to the deity itself and thus beatable. In the tabletop community there's a running joke that a god's avatar is just the DM throwing a level-appropriate challenge at the party. Also, do note that in 5e Myrkul is a quasi-deity, the lowest rank (power-wise) among the gods. He is in fact barely a god and could himself be slain by a propely equiped, high level party. It makes sense that his avatar wouldn't be that great of a deal.
Myrkul: "You dare end one who belongs to me? I am the smile of the worm-cleansed skull. I am the regrets of those who remain, and the restlessnesss of those who are gone. I am the haunt of the mausoleums, the god of graves and age, of dust and dusk. I am Myrkul, Lord of Bones, and you have slain my Chosen. But it is no matter. For I am Death. And I am not the end - I am a beginning." Lae'zel: "omg fr"
Yeah I was kinda expecting each of them to have a giant Dark Souls boss second phase. Must admit it was a little disappointing given how easily they both went down, but I guess the main boss of Act 3 is the Elder Brain, so it would feel a little overkill to give each of them a huge boss form too.
I really wish that Gortash and Orin had in game lore like Ketheric. I love that you get to hear Ketheric talk about why he did what he did, and why old Ketheric and new Ketheric are two different people. How old Ketheric died years ago. You get to see his venerability and true empathize with him. He gets emotionally emotionless.
I had mercy on Kethric on my first playthrough. Just a troubled man that sacrifice everything (including his morals) for what he once had. A sad story of a man worn, withered, and disillusioned. I don't even know what Kethric can do cause I skipped that fight with him because I was merciful on him
I don’t entirely remember. Something like making a check onto the town and then again down below, same as the video shows. Don’t know if I did anything different
I have mixed feelings about the Thorm->Myrkul 2-stage boss fight. For one, my first playthrough was as a Paladin, so they kinda went down like chumps. It wasn't a terribly impressive showing. For two, like... Orin and Gortash can't top transforming into The Avatar of their god on death. They're inherently a step down from this moment, both in the drama that Ketheric was a good man once, so very long ago, and the actual, physical presence of Myrkul's Avatar that I promptly beat upside the head with the Blood of Lathander using multiple 3rd-level smites to kick that skeleton bastard back into whichever Hell he crawled out of.
Agreed. Woulda been interesting if the game had swapped act 3 and act 2. Some rewrites woulda been needed, but I think it woulda been cooler. Make orin very end of act 2
This is exactly what I thought. I love the game but I'm like it seems like their gods didn't like them as much as Myrkul liked Ketheric. Also this was a crazy scene when you think Ketheric may have changed his ways if Aylin never showed up.
@@02091992able She does but it doesn't feel as impactful or meaningful as when Ketheric dies and Myrkul comes. Its probably because there isn't any real phases to it plus the form isn't that strong even on honor mode it wasn't that strong. If not on honor mode you can just push her off a cliff worst comes to worst its kind of crazy imo.
Is it just me, or does it feel like Aylin's rage interrupts a possible redemption for Ketheric? Like, he might've actually returned to the man he once was if she didn't force him to fight and fall back on the powers granted to him by Merkyl
Ketheric is the one who lit that fiery rage. His destiny was decided when he chose to inflict untold torment to Aylin. She would not abide his existence.
@@miguelcondadoolivar5149 She's a movanic deva, she can't help herself. To celestials evil is not simply a lack of morality but a component of inherent polarity of the universe, they are opposed to it on the level of their very being. Celestials and fiends are not like mortals, they literally have no choice in the matter and will always hate the opposite alignment. Even Zariel absolutely hates devils despite being an archdevil and only sticks around because Blood War allows her to kill more devils and demons.
>having a summary +13 for the check with difficulty 10 >it means that you literally can't fail it unless you roll 1 >adding guidance anyway So, no rest for a -whicked- Shadowheart?
Selune doesn't rescue her own daughter and doesn't save his family. I can certainly understand him believing that they are just being coins in their purse.
I went through this fight twice, one with skipping Ketheric fight and one not. I find that skipping Ketheric fight is actually more challenging. Cause the Ketheric fight allows me to release the Nightsong and put my guys in right position for the avatar fight. While if Ketheric fight get skipped, the avatar would have several turns to summon minions which is headache.
I was able to release the nightsong before skipping the second Ketheric fight by playing a Duergar and walking up to her invisible and using my first turn to release her.
You can just order Astarion with double dash to go to the Nightsong before the dialogue even beguins. Alternatively, you could order a high str character or githyanki to jump there.
Not that hard a fight when you remember that you can summon whatever you want before the fight and use the recharge point for full magic slot restores. I went in with multiple elementals (both minor and greater), a couple of Mephits, a Dryad, a Wood Woad and most importantly a Cambion (seriously, Wyll's reward for saving Mizora is obscene, that Cambion summon is mighty for a free action.....). When you outnumber his forces greatly and still can Misty Step and blast AoE's/multi-shots at will the fight gets much easier, especially since the elementals give free setup for elemental combinations.
Myrkul: I am the god of death, fear my avatar Laezel, who has already dealt with too much bullshit since falling off the Nautilus: Awwww shit, here we go again.
On my first playthrough the cutscene bugged so after I convinced Thorm to repent we were all transported to what looked like a heaven sort of plane, a really unfinished one though.
well as far as i can tell it was still the same, though it's been a while since i've played with dark urge origin. Who knows maybe they added something
Dark Urge has one line of dialogue where you can threaten Ketheric with some grisly retribution before the start of the second half of phase 1 boss fight. His response is something along the lines of "that might impress a rabid dog like Orrin but it doesn't frighten me"
Dark Urge has much more to say with Gortash. Thorm was planning to betray the alliance the entire time anyway. So it makes sense that he wouldn't really do much different whether you were DU, Tav. or playing as another origin.
And this is why I'll always hate Aylin, I was so excited in my first play through. I thought I was going to get Ketheric as a badass companion but she showed up and had to DMPC her way into it.
think the game could have been alot better if in act 2 you went to the city and then stopped an invasion force of the absolute, and then went in to the shadow lands to stop kethric and the brain as final bosses.
Interesting idea but I don't like that the Shadowlands come last. They were my personal least favorite area. Why not have Ketheric leave with the others and then come to Baldurs Gate to have a fight with him there? That could have worked better imo.
When i showed him mercy, neither I nor my friends expected him to just, FALL. then comes back as THAT THING! I misty stepped towards him, i played as an Eldritch Knight with the helmet, heavy armor and longsword from the Forge. that was one hell of a fight!
@@eeefe972 You can, there are two mithral ores around the Forge. The helmet is from Grym itself, armor from the first mithral ore, and the longsword from the second.
@@fromheartforyoursoul4592 We fight Ketheric Thorm twice, first this fight, and the second inside the castle. This choice didn't skip the first boss fight, we still need to fight him. But if we choose this dialogue, the second boss fight with Ketheric will be skipped, and we instantly fight Myrkul instead
Not everyone can be redeemed. Ketheric dug himself too deep for too long. He spent multiple lifetimes committing horrific atrocities on a massive geographic scale, he betrayed the initial values of his wife and children, destroyed his community, betrayed his god and then the god he betrayed her to, has a vast multi-chamber cavern system below his castle made out of the flesh of his victims to house new ones, and promised himself to one of the three. Consider what the durge goes through to try and escape his father (one of said trio) even after stacking every advantage and multiple mentors and the over-god of reality itself on his side. Offering redemption is one thing but Ketheric Thorm lacks the willingness, ability and circumstances to see it through. Its like the Killing Joke, we're shining a light between two rooftops and asking him to walk across to our side.
Thorm boss battle feels a little bs when you have him on the ground surrounded by three people whaling on him and then he's just like "enough" and cutscene teleports out
I had a crazy bug during the Myrkul fight where all the enemies, as well as myrkul and Aylin, would not move or attack. I just had to wait till their turns automatically ended, which turned the fight into a cakewalk. A little anticlimactic, but I wasn't going to waste the opportunity
Instead of Aylin coming in and saying Ketheric would rather die than lie down his rank, Ketheric decides to pull rank on you saying he's Chosen and attacks you all the same. Just did this yesterday
Oh wow, I genuinely thought showing mercy made no difference since you still get into a boss fight afterwards. It didn't even came to my mind that there could be two fights after the other and I just skipped one of them
And i have already been the inheritor of your hunger, and have stood upon your corpse and spoke with you as an equal Myrkul. I am afraid you hold no terrors for me, Lord of Bones.
shes still held in chains at the right behind his dome and you can free her in the fight against myrkul, last light inn npc are only dying if you fail to save isobel when the dude with the wings takes her
What an sad irony. I imagine Ketheric's thoughts or words were such: "So, how does it feel when death takes YOUR OWN daughter, Selune? Did it need so radical measures to you pay attention to your humble servant? Did it suddenly cure your deafness for my prayers?"
I haven't try that but someone in the comment said that it just skipped to Ketheric angry without additional dialogue. I still need to check it by myself
she is a paladin of vengeance, if she spared him, she would become an oath breaker, which would have been an awesome turn in the story. In Act 3 she would become a boss, seeking vengeance upon you as a way to reclaim her oath and atone
She's right though. Even with her not here, Ketheric turns on you after actually considering your offer. He either chooses to do so or his god steps in. He's dug himself too deep and done too much for a redemption to work out. Dude literally built a vast sprawling cavern out of the flesh of his innocent victims. He's one of the Three's chosen. Durge has to go through all sorts of hell with every advantage stacked in his favor, one of which is the overgod of reality, just for one outcome where he free's himself of his father.
I mean, he imprisoned her for 100yrs stealing her power, and she was tortured by the Sharrans and Balthazar in all that time. All while thinking her wife was dead. Would you really accept his surrender after all that when you're finally free.
somebody pls answer me this. is it possible to defeat ketheric after killing nightsong?? every blow on him is a miss and he 2 shots all of my companions
Kinda lame that pretty much nothing changes. Feels like getting hit with a railroad DM that really wants things to go a certain way, just giving you a little extra dialouge as a consolation for snooping.
It was totally contrived tbh. I remember how disappointed midturn I was interrupted to let Aylin be hit by the Netherbrain and Ketheric to escape. His other phases and the oubliette are fun at least
@@pryordevine3855 He doesn't, Ketheric just gets pissed suddenly, saying he's the chosen and he has all this power. To be fair he was completely right except you turn out to be holding the githyanki prism which makes him mad and starts the battle anyways
@@TheEpicSpire there is more than one way to exact vengeance, also, where is it stated that she's a paladin? that question isn't meant to fight, it's meant to inquire, because i haven't seen anything that says that.
The only good thing about Ketheric was his VA, and even then it's not JK Simmon's best performance. The chosen of the Dead Three were a major disappointment.
Which is purpose invoked as its a key theme in BG3 of what happens when you deal with the Gods. whether you are enslaved by them, willingly chose them as your patron, being raised with them as your god, or made an Oath to them, even if you're their most elite warrior, their special princess, or their closest lover, they will sacrifice you for their goals without trouble or hesitation. Even if Aylin isnt here, Ketheric's oath to his god will have him possessed and he will engage you anyway. After betraying his previous two deities, his third saw fit to have a fail safe.
J.K. Simmons did the voice of Ketheric Thorm, but i would have greatly preferred it if he did the voice of the narrator of the game, rather than Amelia Tyler. Simmons' voice is just so smooth, and to me it makes a better connection to the previous Baldur's Gate games, as well the Icewind Dale games.
thats so insulting. Tyler's voice carries this game, jk simmons is delightful at all times, but Amelia's performances flies far and above everyone elses
Its not lazy writing. Ketheric has invested himself too deeply. He has left himself with no circumstance where he can benefit from an offered redemption. Its bad writing to give a villain like him an actual redemption when it doenst make any sense for him to be able to. It doesnt make sense both for him to choose it or even have the circumstances to be able to. It would be extremely contrived to pull it off. He's a chosen of one of the Three invested in a deal with two other chosen belonging to the other two. He has committed atrocities for multiple lifetimes, betrayed his families values, corrupted his homeland with a terrible curse that caused further suffering on a vast geographic scale, said curse involved him betraying his god to another god who he has since betrayed to his current god who keeps a tight leash on him because of this. Dude has miles and miles of caverns under his castle made out of the literal flesh of all his victims. JFC.
@johnstarks7759 that's what I'm already assuming when I replied. Also that's not the context of deus ex machina, and even without her, he outright rejects it after serious consideration cause he's on too deep. We're basically Killing Joke-ing him by flashing a light between two buildings and telling him to walk across the beam. Even then Aylin has more say on his redemption than us.
Aylin is a disgusting zealot. I mean, she's a deva and she can't help but utterly hate the opposite alignment, but this is very extreme even for someone like her. She goes on to just murder a wizard because he intended to use her the same way, even though he did nothing wrong otherwise. I wonder if she'll get mentioned again at some point in the future. She seems to go Zariel's way.
“Even though he did nothing wrong otherwise” Respectfully He was smacking Rolan around, who only sought to learn, JUST for fun. He taught him nothing. When we meet Lorroakan, he’s preparing to shoot an apple off a clearly uncomfortable assistant’s head with an unwieldy construct for HIS entertainment. He sets off a massive searcg sending who knows how many mercenaries to their death on the OFFCHANCE they’ll bring gim anything useful with his bad info: imagine Aradin’s gang defeating Ketheric and bringing Nightsong… never gonna happen. He led so many to death. He has portal that brings you within an inch of death if you answer wrong… open to the public. He threatens to kill you for boring him. He implies he will only ally with you as it is convenient. And lastly… HE WANTS TO IMPRISON AN ANGEL to prolong his own miserable life. He’ll even kill Isobel if she goes to the tower. He’s needlessly cruel and “evil” as far as alignments go. And you think “he did nothing wrong otherwise”? Literally every scene, every interaction, every mention of him tries to establish him as a pos.
@veUsernameEh He's been treating his apprentice poorly. He's been offering a job to mercenaries that they are free to accept or refuse. He has a portal to dispatch frauds. He MAY kill some cleric to get what he wants. What a villain, Asmodeus should be taking notes. Generally, a respectable wizard. Could use an attitude adjustment but otherwise very mundane. Aylin just goes and murders him even though she could prevent his whole evil plan by just not showing up.
i always think that his daughter is being quite a bitch going full " my dad is an asshole, he separated me from my love" . aylin being used a immortal fuel for centuries i can understand her anger ( even if i find shes a pompous jerk sometimes) but his daughter just forget he's just paying his debt for reviving her, even if he's doing this efficiently.
Dude he committed horrific atrocities over multiple mortal life times on a huge geographic scale and thoroughly betrayed his family's values to do it, he completely destroyed every aspect of their lives and community just to bring her back with the intention of turning her into a mindless slave. And he did it for himself.
There's like 30 other lesbian couples in the game, e.g. Alfira and Lakrissa. Aylin is so self-righteous and bloodthirsty I question if she isn't worse than Ketheric
@@ToxicSoul03 Given that the dude literally has a huge sprawling set of caverns made out of the flesh of his innocent victims I think this is just a case of your balls getting shrunk by the "stronk womanz". Just another pizza cutter. All edge and no point.
![What Happen When You Show Mercy To Ketheric Thorm [Baldur's Gate 3]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
