The same could be said for Oldsmobile and Mercury. They were homogenized to the point where they were identical to Buick, Chevrolet, and Ford. In other words, they ceased to stand out amongst their peers.
@VictorySpeedway Also not to mention Studebaker and Packard as well as Hudson and Nash (that formed AMC). Had both Studebaker and Packard merged together with Hudson and Nash along with Kaiser and Jeep to form AMC in 1954 then AMC would've not only become the Big 4 but also some of these Brands like Studebaker, Packard, Hudson, and Nash would've been around to this day as well and Jeep wouldn't be crappy built like they are when Chrysler bought em.
@@CJColvin The merging of all those brands would've provided a ready made hierarchy. Packard could've reemerged as the luxury line, with Hudson competing against Buick, Studebaker against Oldsmobile, and Nash vs. Chevrolet / Pontiac (and the Ford and Chrysler equivalents). The problem was that each of the independents was broke, and had insufficient funds for aggressive R&D. Not sure how that would've worked out as the Feds weren't in the business of bailing out corporations. Maybe a defense contract or two would've done the trick. I enjoy pondering the "what if's!"
@VictorySpeedway Same here, also what if Studebaker and Packard have been bought by Ford and Ford puts em in they're line up instead of creating the Edsel Brand. I would've see Studebaker as Ford's Cheap budget brand to compete with Chevrolet and Plymouth and I see Packard above Lincoln to compete with Cadillac and Imperial.
As a Canadian, I was saddened to see Pontiac go. My father had a few of them. But I do agree with everything you said so astutely. Having myself been born and raised in Oshawa..I am happy Colonel McLaughlin can rest in peace with the fact his Buick brand is still alive and well. William Durant from Flint Michigan gave Samuel Mclaughlin an amazing opportunity to built these cars in Canada and its story in automotive Canadian history is paramount.
My 73-77 cars have been sitting outdoors 25 years,the bumpers are amazing,whoever did the chrome process,should get an award.Imagine if the whole car got that process?
@@rogersmith7396 GM spent millions designing bumpers to meet new safety standards,I find it funny,today cars with a 5 mph impact does $5000 damage,lmfao
I know where there is a 59' Caddy in the bush. Nothing left of it but those old bumpers could bolt on to a Ridler Award winning showcar today and no one would know. It's crazy how they last.
@@BADASSxMONTExCARLOx1971 I think the whole front end of my Jeep is plastic. My 85 Saab took a deer full on and only a turn signal lens was damaged. $30.00. Repop. Have'nt tried it with the 70 Eldo.
Hey Adam, yes Pontiac is near & dear to my heart. My grandfather would buy a new Bonneville every two or three years & my aunt had a beautiful 65 Grand Prix with the 8 lug wheels!!! Wouldn't it be nice to recapture Pontiac excitement!!! Sadly, we know that Pontiacs are gone forever, but there are still some great cars out there!!! 👍👍🙂
They did. Pontiac was supposed to give Bert a new firebird anytime he wanted a new one for the rest of his life because of the cars that movie sold. They didn’t keep their end of the deal
There was a guy around here that bought a new Smokey and the Bandit Trans AM. He tried to do a U turn under power like in the movie and managed to put it in the ditch, wrecking it. Wonder what his insurance company thought.
Good old Jackie Gleason as Sheriff Buford T. Justice😁 I was a kid when this movie came out, was accustomed to watching Honeymooners reruns with my Dad. I was wondering why Ralph Kramden was a Sheriff😁
Pontiac's demise was due to the GM bankruptcy in 2009. They declared bankruptcy largely to get out of dealership contracts that demanded that Pontiac and Oldsmobile cars be produced. Pontiac, Buick, and Oldsmobile basically competed with each other, but even with the platform sharing, the costs of building different body panels and marketing the different brands was too much. If they simply stopped producing the brands, then they would have been sued by dealership groups and would have lost in court. Instead, they declared bankruptcy, deleted the dealership contracts, and deleted the brands all together, including Saturn and Hummer. SAAB was sold off. Buick was going to be deleted as well, but since this brand is extremely popular in China and Korea for some reason, they kept the nameplate and the dealerships. At least this is what I understand, and why you don't see a hypothetical Chevrolet Pontiac [which would be a Camaro with a Pontiac nose and tail clips], since this could be the basis for a lawsuit. People show pictures of a Camaro turned into a Trans Am and the car looks GREAT!, but it can never be built by GM.
Oh yes, I remember that period. That's when Obama went into GM and threw his weight around even though a president has no business going into private enterprise. He forced internal changes, firings, and some of the causalities were Pontiac and Oldsmobile. Instead of just giving GM the loan! I'm sure a backroom profit deal was made for the benefit of himself and Mrs. Obama. Then he skipped over the recently returned to American ownership, Chrysler. Told them FU, no loan. Thus, forcing what was the joyous back-in-American-hands Chrysler to sell a major portion of that company to Fiat. Instead of just giving Chrysler the loan! Nice job Obama, for yourself.
@@scottgfx As far as I know GM still holds that brand. I'm surprised that no one has picked up Saab. Like them or not, the brand is worth something and deserves to be manufactured again. There's also profit to made in parts, Saab's are still around as well as those in collector's garages.
@@discerningmind You're full of crap. I wonder how many auto workers have a job today due to PRESIDENT Obama? If you want to see corruption just check out "president" donald trump's administration. That clown could care less what was going on in the country; All he wanted to do was watch Fox & Friends and wear the "crown". -Folks, it is a proven fact that the vast majority of Karens/Kevins are indeed, registered republicans. These people are all ENTITLED, they are insecure, they have persecution complexes, and feel the world owes them everything since they grew up rich. And they feel they are the only people "working for a living", and perceive everyone with darker skin than them to be living off the government. They want to impose THEIR personal religious beliefs on YOU, and if they cannot do these nefarious things? They EXPLODE in a child-like temper tantrum and invoke their disgusting orange-haired hero, Corporal Bone Spurs himself Donald Trump!
Labor was cheap in those days and now it’s not! The peak times for those automakers was the influx of immigrants after World War 1 and 2! Now it’s too costly to make a car here compared to Korea, Japan and Germany! But Even Germany now make cars in places like Slovakia where it’s cheap Labor as it’s own population now in Germany wants higher pay! Comes down to cheap Labor and that’s why so much industry has left US over the years and is made and fully moved to China
@@jayweiss4378 GM was particularly burdened by having to maintain a peaceful relationship with the UAW in Detroit. VW made the mistake of bringing in workers from Detroit when they opened their Westmoland, PA plant in the late 1970s; they closed it after 5 or 6 years of nothing but trouble. Honda, Toyota, Nissan and, I believe Hyundai all set up shops with the goal of remaining non-union and have done much better. The sad thing is that the threat of unionization makes places like Detroit and Chicago no-go zones for large manufacturing operations. It would be hard to calculate the damage that that has done to the economies of places dominated by unions.
@@jayweiss4378 And we all know how inexpensive German cars are. The Japanese just give them away. NOT. The cheap labor argument is BS. It affects profit not price.
When I was a kid, my dad had a '65 Starchief (dark blue body, white top with faux hinges on the C pillar). He called it a hardtop convertible! It was the coolest thing ever. Beautiful coke bottle shape, terrific interior with round, chrome-clad gauges and it handled like a dream. To my kid mind, the coolest feature was the Indian head that would light up on the dash when the high beams were activated. I'd kill to have that car today!
When I was 7, my next-door neighbor bought a new '69 Grand Prix as his "mid-life-crisis car". I had never noticed that vinyl roofs existed before and thought it might be some kind of space-age convertible that held its shape perfectly when not retracted. Cars can be really cool when you're young enough to make that kind of assumption.
I miss the Trans Am. A friend of mine had one in the 90s and we used to call it the fire chicken. I'm in Canada and the Pontiac dealers were never standalone. It was always a Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealer.
Right. And Chevrolet was always sold alongside Oldsmobile. Only the biggest dealers - Pontiac-Buick and Chev-Olds - sold Cadillacs. And relatively few Chev-Olds dealers even sold Corvettes. GMC trucks were always sold by the Pontiac-Buick dealers. It made perfect sense at the time.
I was in sales for a Pontiac dealership in southern VA from 1985 through 2002. 1986 was a booming year for our dealership. We could not keep the Grand Am on the lot as they were very HOT sellers in both 2 door and 4 door. A good year indeed for Pontiac. Always loved Pontiacs as my parents always had driven them over the many years as I can recall. I have a 1967 Firebird convertible I've had since 1971. Always enjoy taking it out on nice days for a cruise around town and to cruise-ins.
I always enjoyed my Pontiac's. I had a 1964 Grand Prix, a 1965 Pontiac Catalina and a 1967 GTO Convertible 4peed. All three were home runs in the class.
Maybe if GM didn't run Pontiac into the ground by allow it's designs to make such cheap and plastic feeling cars, they would still be around. They did the same thing with Oldsmobile. Near the end the cars were NOTHING like the one's from the 1980's or 1990's. Most Oldsmobiles and Pontiacs after 2000 were just not appealing to anyone let alone their devoted fan base.
@@klwthe3rd you made a blanket statement about Oldsmobile and Pontiac quality that is highly subjective....You're the winner. He just explained why Pontiac went out of business and at no point did he discuss quality. And I believe Adam worked for GM.
I agree the cars had poor look and feel. They were desperately worse than Honda for example. This guy explains that sales declined, but not really why.
@@klwthe3rd I can attest totally, I remember the interiors were so cheap, plastic fantastic. A family member of mine had a late 90s model and I can vividly remember the power door locks buttons all coming off the plastic covers, the wiper stalk not working properly, and super rubbery-feeling buttons.
Thank you Adam for sharing your insight regarding the demise of Pontiac. My Dad sold Pontiacs from 1957 until 1990, so your love of the mid 60’s cars lies near and dear to my heart. The reviews of your Pontiacs bring back fond memories for me, especially the videos of their beautiful interiors.
One of my earliest memories was my aunt's then seven- to eight-year-old 1953 Pontiac Catalina coupe. Even though I was a little kid I was already a car guy and I had learned a lot because I was always asking questions. She bought it in 1955-56 when she was in the Navy stationed in San Diego. A fellow Navy man stationed there as well had completed his duty and was going back home. He didn't need the Pontiac any longer and my aunt bought it from him. That Pontiac had two-tone paint, light-yellow body with a white roof and the interior was a light greenish leather. I was fascinated by the steering wheel with its large diameter and three spokes, and Chief Pontiac's head in the center. The spoke on the bottom pointed straight down, and the side spokes were angled downward. One day I had the chance to turn the wheel a little and the weight of the spokes seemed heavy. I had noticed that the wheel always returned on its own to pointing straight ahead again after my aunt made a turn. I think it was designed to have those angled/weighted side spokes make it return to center. It had a straight-8 engine that my dad explained to me, and it was an automatic which I believe was a Hydro-Matic. And I seem to remember that when my aunt shut-down the engine, she would put the gear shift into reverse because that set a park pin so the car wouldn't roll away. 1953 was in the early years of automatic transmissions before the "P" position existed. The exhaust note was distinctively different than the other cars I was around, and it made that car sound special. And I knew that my little mouth could replicate that exhaust note perfectly. Besides, dad said so. I have to mention that, yes, it did have the amber Chief Pontiac head in the hood ornament, that lit up, and I loved that. Except when the bulb burnt-out my aunt didn't replace it because there was something about it that she didn't like. She was always one who worried about a cars' battery, so it was probably due to the electricity it used. The big deal about that Pontiac, unlike the cars of anyone's else we knew, is that it had power steering. I remember whenever my mom and I would go places with my aunt my mom would always say that didn't know how my aunt could drive it with steering that turned so easily. My mom said she was afraid of it. And mom was afraid of the brakes too. The brakes were the other thing unlike the cars of anyone else we knew, is that it had power brakes. My aunt didn't like the power steering and the power brakes either, but she got used to those and she was a very careful driver. She would get spooked easily. My aunt made the decision to leave the Navy after four years and she wanted to keep the Pontiac. She had another of my aunt's come out to San Diego and they shared driving the Pontiac back home to Connecticut. And that's where I learned all about it and learned that I loved it. She decided to replace the Pontiac around 1961. In those days it was considered a very old car. She bought a 1959 Rambler American. She didn't like it (neither did I) but she kept that for about three years. But her next car excited me. It was a two-year-old 1962 Ford falcon two-door in a bright aqua color that kids liked. The interior was a light gray with black. That had a six cylinder, but I don't which of the sixes it had. And it had a three-on-the-tree. Her next car came to her in an unusual way. One day in 1967 when my aunt was in work, a Chrysler rep had come into the business, and he told my aunt about a special that they were having on the new Dodge Dart. It had been redesigned for '67. I don't know the price of the special they were having, but she said it was a great price. However, the "special" had limitations. That being, it had to be a Dodge Dart base car, no power steering, no power brakes, no a/c, and the engine would be the 225 Slant-Six. The only no cost choice was the paint, but it had to be white, yellow, or beige. (light brown?) The special did allow paying extra for, four doors, automatic transmission, and a radio. My aunt picked a two door, yellow, and added the automatic trans and the radio. It must have been a great price because my aunt almost never listened to the radio in a car. The battery thing again. My aunt always took excellent care of her cars, and she had that '67 Dodge Dart for twenty-two years until the frame had rotted. I'll stop here, I was never intending to write that much but I went ahead with it because some people like the history that's connected with cars. As a side note, my aunt had always regretted not remaining in the Navy. She had four years in and could have retired in sixteen years with a retirement income. Instead, because it wasn't easy for women to have a career back then she always had to work very hard for little money as a bookkeeper. I know she missed that perfect San Diego weather too.
My friend bought one of those torrents it was only like a year old and it was absolutely loaded I actually really like that thing in the way it handled. I also like the vibe.
Indoor porch talk is appreciated. Well done. Here’s how we immortalize Pontiac in our house (among many other marques): 1964 Grand Prix, 1983 J2000 Wagon and 1991 Lemans (Daewoo). The latter are 1 owner GM employee family heirlooms. Cost more to maintain and store properly than worth. But, that’s ok. Had a 1966 Catalina Conv and an 80 Phoenix but, sadly, sold both.
I had Grand Lemans wagon a 1978 loaded to the gills and it was like having a Grand Prix wagon great handling car and love the way the dash was laid out
I only owned one Pontiac in my lifetime, a 1973 Parisienne 2dr hardtop that i bought in 1986 and it was a great driver and very good when cruising on a long trip on the highway, I'd say solid to when a couple of years later my friend made a demolition car out of it and he won the derby 2 years in a row with it ✌👌
Adam, excellent as always. It is very important to give the financial insights. I think the problem got worse in the 90s, when GM brought Ronald Zarella from B&L glasses and Branding got confused, alienated old consumers and did not bring new ones. I remember in an interview he said that he had a chart- Excel?- with more than 150 lines with the positioning of each car and each brand. And G3,G6, G8 are what? Appliances? Remember the ad - The Caddy that Zigs? Happy new Year from a balmy beach In Brazil!
Owned a 1962 Pontiac Grand Prix with the 389 tri-power (318 hp) with a 4-speed. That car was awesome and would push you back in the seat when you had that tri-power kick in.
I’ve got a black ‘62 Grand Prix with 8 lugs and tri power but mine has the dodgy slim jim automatic. I’ve got most of the parts needed to convert to a manual except for the console.
We had a loss of about $1,500 per vehicle in the GM Small Car division (not including Saturn). It wasn't labor (read what Lee Iacoca said about selling small cars in the USA). An Opel version of the G6 sold for $40,000 US in Germany.
You forgot one of Pontiac's best Crossovers, the joint venture with Toyota NUMMI which was based on the Corolla and Matrix. It was probably GM's best union made car for reliability. The Vibe holds an incredible amount of cargo. I have three and my daily driver is at 285,000 miles. These cars consistently go over 300,000 miles.
It wasn't a joint venture. It's a Toyota with a Pontiac badge. GM didn't do ANYTHING in terms of designing and engineering that car. 100% Toyota vehicle.
@@SomeOne_86 Wrong the Vibe included a GM designed HVAC system, Delco radio and totally different exterior body panels that had the Pontiac style cladding on the side which the Matrix did not. The Matrix was also built in Canada and the Vibe in California The Matrix had a totally different exterior with Toyota styling. They shared an almost identical interior with some minor changes and the same underbody / chassis.
@@markchandler90 What's interesting is the odometer stops workng at 299,999 miles on the 2003-2008 models. Who had that genius idea? I've noticed the Matrix leather interior was nicer than the Vibe leather interior.
Very substantive discussion -- it recalls your Badge Engineering talk -- and might actually relate. Yes, badge engineering can work, but not if it fundamentally loses the thread of a brand. I suspect most of us discount the hard core, sober realities of an overall business model. Thx again.
You and your Bad News Adam! 😢. That makes me so Sad I loved Pontiac and was Heart broken when I heard the news. I grew up late 60’s and 70’s. Grandfather had the ‘67 Bonneville in a Med Blue and loaded. I loved watching him pull up and going for rides often. One of my first new Cars was a Maroon Bonneville Sport Coupe Pontiac. And a ‘86 Red TRAN AM w/ T -TOPS with Black and Chrome Turbine wheels. Now I am depressed. Lol
Pontiac capitalized on that brilliantly with the 1979 Trans Am, making about 10,000 of "America's last muscle cars" with 250 HP 400s and selling many more with de-tuned 400s to buyers who probably thought they were getting the real thing.
I’ve got the identical Grand Prix from the cover of the 1965 motor trend car of the year issue. 36k miles. Original bluemist slate paint with the black top and 8 lugs it came with from the factory. Driving it tonight with 3 buddies doing a bar hop. Only odd thing is; it was ordered with a front bench and column shift. 389 4bbl sure is smooth!
I hit play planning to only partake in a "couple few minutes" b4 moving on and ended up not only watching every second but skipping back a few times to re absorb some good thoughts and strong points. "Rare and Classic Cars" Always = Good N Plenty Content
Yes, they got shut down because sales dropped, but why did sales drop? They lost their identity, their reason for being. That perception of excitement and daring was gone. When the ribbed styling ran its course, they had nothing to replace it.
I think the renaming of the cars by alphabet and numbers rather than glamorous names sank it too. American car companies were trying to copy Germans and Japanese by putting alpha numeric s. on the car instead of names. Cadillac unfortunately did the same...as did lincoln. I love American cars, but I felt the manufacturers for becoming followers of the Europeans in Japanese rather than the leaders which American cars were for most time.
Totally agree. The problem IMO was the interiors of these vehicles with the "Fisher Price" buttons everywhere. Yes, the Pontiacs looked better than the Chevy's (and Oldsmobile's) from the era from the outside, but you spend most of your time inside the vehicle... why pay so much more for a Pontiac or an Olds?
I think it’s tragic that there was never a Firebird/TransAm revival when the new retro Camaro was launched. Unlikely it would have saved Pontiac, but it would have been a great way to go out!
It had already been decided Pontiac was to cease WELL before the '09 Camaro came out. GM killed off the Camaro/Firebird with the '02 models and only brought back the Camaro because they were basically forced to by the Mustang, Challenger and (to a lesser extent) the Charger. Having said that, it wasn't out of any love of the Camaro by GM otherwise. The plants that made the C/F were retooled for what else, trucks and SUV's. The styling on the '09 Camaro was a fat, ugly take on the '69, nearly bordering on the grotesque, but it sold very well. The 6th gen with the smooth sleeker lower body is quite attractive except for that damn roofline it retained. What they got right with the 6th was a design that wasn't trying to "copy" the 1st gen. Instead they cleverly gave it a 1st gen flavor or essence, yes, but with an original look all its own. (cont.) The idea of a Firebird, T/A has been brought up before. It would have been the same body with familiar/expected Pontiac distinctions. I heard there was a company in the South doing such conversions of Camaros. Some guys complaining "but those aren't Pontiacs!" Sorry boys for the newsflash, but GM is and has been in survival mode for years, only doing as well as they are with trucks, SUV's, sedans and future hopes on electric vehicles. Pontiac's permanently in the grave along with Olds, Mercury, Plymouth since the turn of the century. Was watching a new video on Packard, and there were guys on there too bemoaning Packard and Studebaker's deaths and "if only they could come back today". I said if they could (they can't of course) they'd be indistinguishable SUV's, crossovers, sedans and trucks, with those names on them, and that's it. Camaro's going away again in less than a year, but may "be back" like the electric Mustang, or a four-door electric sedan.
@@bobpierce115 The 6th gen looks worse to me than the 5th gen. From 50 yards away you can hardly tell the difference between a Mustang and Camaro now. Especially side profile and rear 1/4 window. The LT1 or V6 6th gen front end is a bit better than that angular butcher job they put on the SS or 1LE/ZL1. They made it just as goofy looking as the Silverados.
@@judgegixxer I know what you're saying about the 6th gen looking more like the Mustang, and agree. The thing (for me) is that the 5th gen Camaro was so hideous that as long as they re-did the car NOT to look like that anymore, I didn't care. If I had to pick my favorite-styled Camaros ever, they would be the sleek and sexy '67-'68, then skips ahead to the '82-'92 Z28 & IROCs with the beautiful ground effects.
@@bobpierce115 actually the plant that built the 4th gen firebird/camaro was in St. Therese, Quebec just outside Montreal. It was torn down after production ended.
Great discussion that sounds like its leading to a conversation about the death of CARS altogether in today's market -unfortunate for people who still love cars. And loath the taking over of the market with inefficient, clumsy, tall sitting highchairs for adults masquerading as cars. Or trucks? SUVs and cross-overs killed great CAR brands like Pontiac, Olds, and Mercury. Period. So now customers who want any kind of a luxury/sport cruiser-sedans have to shop either European, South Korean brands or Japanese makers, which I think is a real shame. Pontiac would never be able re-emerge as a business case to survive in this kind of environment. Nice job Adam -keep up the good work🙂
Love Pontiacs. Had four of them. My favorite being a '68 Catalina I had in the 70s. Wish I still had it. Nice heavy fun to drive cars. I miss that car every day. She was a real beauty! Still have the original 14'' wheel covers.
Great video and explanation of this long-gone brand. I remember seeing a surprisingly large amount of Pontiacs on trips to Canada but never knew why until now.
Hi Adam , I enjoy your channel . You have a Wonderful collection !" You are a lucky man to have so many different model's from the Big Three . I have a 78 Oldsmoblie Delta 88 Royal two door coup . There is along but cool story behind my Oldsmoblie. Have a Happy and Healthy New Year !" Gene ,
Well stated Adam. You covered a lot. I was watching and saying yes.. he is right. I do agree with that whole turning Pontiac into a cheap BMW import fighter was a bad idea. That should have started back in the 1980's. They were headed in that direction as witnessed by the 6000 STE and Bonneville SSE. They had already failed with and tried that with Oldsmobile with the whole import fighter notion. Getting away from the names was another huge mistake too. Too many car brands made that mistake especially Oldsmobile. I sometimes think if Pontiac had lived it would had a Dodge Charger fighter. They did with the Holden based Pontiac G8, but it did not take off. If it had both Holden and Pontiac would have benefitted from that. I will always fondly remember and like Pontiac Bonneville, Parisienne, Grand Ville, Grand Prix, Grand Am and Firebird. Pontiac's issue is was not any different from Chevrolet at the end. Thank you for pointing the GM Canada information too. I know Chevrolet lives because it is bread and butter, Cadillac lives because it is luxury. Buick thrives in China, but it is not so good shape in the United States. It had to transition to a suv/crossover brand. GM let go of a lot of brands for many reasons. Great video and grand effort.
Back in the day Chevrolet Pontiac Oldsmobile Buick made quality cars that were appealing mostly cost effective with a better build quality than there competitors that were fairly simple to work on and maintain that were reliable and dependable when each GM division had there own engines l think was a key factor to GMs huge success you had 5 different engine options at every GM division Ford Mercury Lincoln and Chrysler Dodge Plymouth didn't
Pontiac always styled their cars on the edge of the extreme and that was what attracted certain people to them. "We build excitement" was a great definition. They messed up when they tried low keying things with the later GTO and G8 from Holden. Maybe the Aztec flop scared them into being too conservative but the GTO and G8 along with their other cars could have benefitted from some ideas from the old school designers. I mean, the people (some call gaudy) are still out there and these modern vehicles with lackluster styling isn't satisfying them. Thanks for breaking it down for us Adam.
I had a '66 GTO beater back in the 80s and a decent '67 Ventura (Catalina) 4 door hardtop in the late 90s and early 2000s. They were fun cars. The Ventura was a real freeway sled, and even got 18 mpg when I had to commute from ABQ to Los Alamos (200 mile round-trip with some serious elevation changes) for a short time. I would top off the gas tank every night on my way home. It was December, 1999, and regular unleaded gas was EIGHTY SEVEN CENTS PER GALLON.
I don't think Pontiac ever really fully recovered from the Fiero fiasco and stupid Asstec I mean Aztec. People hated on the last 2 Grand Am models but I disagree and think they were fantastic cars, especially the last one with a 3800 in it (holy sh*t a 2001 Grand Am wad fast!)
General Motors should leverage it’s history to release so e special edition series vehicles that are limited in number and would be high gross for them and their dealers. Sold through either Chevrolet or Buick/GMC dealers they could do a special edition Pontiac Trans Am based on the Camaro architecture (so relatively low cost). Offer 10,000 only per series all numbered or a series of special editions within ie 5,000 Bandit edition in black and gold, maybe 2,000 white with blue stripe 69 Anniversary editions and maybe 3,000 Silver Anniversary inspired silver and grey editions. These would sell out and be highly prized. The name Pontiac becomes a model name rather than brand - so the model is Pontiac Trans Am sold via xxx GM dealer. Chrysler should do the same. Release 10,000 Plymouth Barracuda editions based off the Challenger. You could have AAR and other special releases. I would also only ever release all future GM models at the Technical Centre and really leverage the spectacular facilities that were futuristic in the 1950’s but still look very retro cool today. No other car company could do that. Leverage the power of your branded assets GM.
Excellent video! Something I have always wondered and totally makes sense. As a suggestion for another video could you do the same for Saturn? That was the other brand I was curious about. Thank you for all you efforts and hard work on the videos!
1990-2010 was the most fascinating time in the auto industry from Pontiac to Plymouth to Daewoo. It was wild. The designs. The tech. My favorite though. The Plymouth Neon. That encapsulates my childhood, teens and high school days.
I owned a '70 GTO Judge Convertible that I bought on a whim in 1980. White, with red/orange teardrop stripes highlighting the bodywork on the fenders and quarter panels. It was a looker, and always attracted attention. However I found its performance to be quite pedestrian compared to other GM A-bodies I had driven, particularly an Olds 442 that a friend's brother owned. The 442 was much quicker than my GTO and inspired me to look for one of my own. Maybe it was my particular car, but I had the slowest of all my group of friend's musclecars, and at that age that mattered for me. So at the end of summer I sold it. I also had an '85 Trans Am, black, which was a great car that my mom bought new. The engine was a Chevy 305 with a Q-jet carb and I think about 150-160 net HP. The original 305 siezed for some reason, so I built a 350 with 10:1 compression, Dart 2.02/1.60 65 cc heads and a 327/350 camshaft. Initially the car was choked up with the stock exhaust, but I worked on that a bit and that really woke it up. In fact it was a phenominal car with the excellent T/A suspension and a good hot Chevy motor. Unfortunately it was stolen in the early 90's and wrecked beyond repair.
My theory has been that GM didn't need 5 divisions even in the 50s-70s when they were selling half the cars Americans bought; they just happened to be stuck with the dealer franchises, factory toolings and brand loyalties that came from taking over 5 companies. They did find a way to ditch Oakland early and maybe they would have been well advised to consolidate earlier, when it would have looked like a move of common sense rather than desparation. Sure, they needed some segmentation, so that the Cadillac buyers were sitting in different waiting rooms than Chevy buyers. It's also good to have a division that can launch more daring products as trial balloons, as Oldmobile did with automatic transmissions and Olds, then Buick did with turbochargers. But once GM had cleared out dead-end technologies like Buick's torque-tube suspensions and Dynaflows, ditched the clunky Hydramatic, and later started putting the best engines and transmissions they could build in cars of all 5 brands, there was no reason to go back to anything like that clutter, so it's only natural that some divisions had to go. Though, I'll admit that I miss Pontiac more than I miss Oldsmobile.
Great insight into Pontiac’s demise. I bought one of the last GTO’s ever made and do recall the sales staff calling them BMW killers! I really thought that was the start of good things to come not realizing the plan to ax the brand was probably already in place! I got a letter from GM stating they would continue to support my GTO with a Buick brochure enclosed. They tripled the cost of replacement parts overnight. My GTO suffered several issues under warranty and required substantial repairs out of warranty before it had 30k miles on it. Last GM car I ever purchased.
Adam, I truly enjoy all the content you produce. It's well-researched, well-informed and well-presented. I grew up during these cars' heyday, and I always learn something from your videos. Could I ask just one favor? Could you please get closer to the microphone or have a lapel microphone attached to the camera? It's difficult to hear you unless I use a headset or earbuds. Thanks!
Great Content Adam being onetime 83 Trans Am owner I have a nostalgic feeling for the Brand. I agree there is no Place for Pontiac today. Pontiac had its day in the sun and like you said you can still find some classics out there.
I remember driving a Pontiac G6 loaner car given to me when I took my Volkswagen in for service as a multi-line dealer. The car was just unexciting even though it was built on a modern (for then) international GM platform. It just didn't feel like a high quality or nice car. Not the worst, but nothing special. With all cars generally becoming more powerful and better handling, I think there was less to differentiate Pontiac from its stablemates towards the end. I once worked as a stringer, writing automotive stories for various Milwaukee area newspapers. I attended the 1988 Pontiac national press introduction in Lake Geneva WI. I remember there being a sense of excitement with the Grand Prix being new and other turbo powered cars being introduced. It was neat talking with the designers and marketing people.
Spot on analysis Adam. As much as I’d love to see Pontiac back, there simply isn’t a place for the “Excitement” division when you’re peddling a fleet of crossovers. And those crossovers would likely be little more than warmed-over Chevys, so essentially a repeat of the sad old days of badge engineering. That said I really wish Pontiac was kept in 2009 and Buick was put to pasture instead…but understandable that this didn’t happen considering Buick’s profitability overseas.
apparently for some reason Buick is insanely popular in China, so you bet GM isn't gonna get rid of that cash cow, even if Buick were discontinued in the US , the amount of cars that GM sells in China would be more than enough to sustain the Buick brand and be profitable
As a Canadian kid growing up in the 1970's, Pontiacs were truly everywhere. Mom had a '71 Lemans Sport. then later an '84 TransAm. I was sad to see them go, but by then Canada's favourite cars had been Honda Civics for some time, and they still are... I still wish I had the money and room for a '65 Parisienne...
Of all the now defunct brands I think Pontiac is the one most deserving of resurrection. I always found the Firebird to be better looking than the Camaro and the GTO better looking than the Chevelle, etc. Let's not forget that it was Pontiac that started the whole muscle car phenomenon back in the 60s. I used to have a Cutlass but always wished it had been a GTO.
Adam, thanks for this kind of thoughtful and in-the-industry perspectives that you bring to this channel. I enjoy hearing about how things are viewed from the auto business and the structures it employs. While I have a fondness for the Grand Ville and Grand Am that my Dad owned in my early driving years, I agree that a set of Pontiac crossovers would be an uninteresting use of that brand. Thinking about it some, it seems Cadillac was the better choice to be based on more expensive platforms and stretch it's appeal to become more of a BMW competitor with some of its models, while aiming others at more expensive German targets. That's sort of where we've ended up, with the new electric Cadillac crossover models occupying the upscale space of MB and BMW, seemingly finally moving beyond being exclusively "soft and quiet" vehicles that didn't directly take on the German brands competitively n the 70s-90s, with a few exceptions. I find it interesting that Buick was saved, seemingly due to its great success in China. There must have been someone or some group at Buick to drive that focus, and wasn't as prominent in Olds or Pontiac. Any insights you can share in a future porch chat about that part of GM's recent history?
Well, I didn't "enjoy" it; but you're right, the halcyon days were the mid-60s. The only *new* car I purchased was an 85 Bonneville, with the Chevy 305. It lasted 340,000 miles, one Turbo Hydramatic 200 warranty repair (followed after some 250k miles where I always had to put it in neutral coming to a stop, as the lock-up wouldn't disengage), one head job, one timing chain/gears, and two overhauls of the Rochester E4ME carb--which I personally did. Quite a few shocks, lots of visits to Firestone for tires and their alignment policy, and a handful of ball joints and tie rod ends/idler arms. Bambi #2 totaled it. My favorite car! Even the heater core was easily accessible. Amazing! Oh, and one catalytic converter.
Another really great video Adam. I couldn’t agree more. The nostalgia of Pontiac will always remain high for me as I had a number of early 60’s to early 70’s Pontiacs back in the day. I bought the tired ones if they had 283 or 327 (Canadian) and swapped them into the better bodies. Back then only the 2 doors were worth fixing. I liked the Pontiacs but by 1980 there wasn’t much attraction for me. But I would love to do another early mid sixties full size but A Pontiac badged new aero body anything would be a disgrace to that worthy name IMHO.
The last time I thought Mercury had their own beautiful thing going which when I was in high school in about 1973 the best I can remember. One of our coaches sold his 65 mustang and got a new Cougar XR7. Everyone was starting to manufacture midsize luxury cruisers such as the Cutlass and the Cordoba. And along with the others the Cougar XR7 also grew to be a little bit longer, more cushiony seats, smoother ride but still sporty enough to have fun. His was Ford green with a black half vinyl top, with tan leather interior. And for the time that car was damn well beautiful. I remember when it was a rainy day or bad weather instead of hanging out in the fieldhouse him and two or three of us students would go sit in the car running the air conditioner and listening to the radio. After that styling change from then on Mercury was dead but just didn't realize it.
My grandma had a 67 Pontiac Catalina with the 400. It could hit 120 mph very quickly and frame was so strong the previous owner used it tow a double axle trailer.
Pontiac was an awesome brand in the late 80s through to about 02 in my book. At least the last one I drove was an 02 Grand Prix, rental LOL. Seriously though always a pleasure to drive and not bad styling either. Edit: I didn't realize we were bringing up the 60s models. Those were just spectacular. All the cars back then were pretty darn honest. Not like that fastback 4-door BMW or Honda.
