@@angryvaultguy That's no greater crime than the many crimes of each nation. It's a cultural phenomenon and to them, that would have likely been similar to joining the military in another culture
Kyoshi legit did nothing though? She saw a hostile army taking over the Earth Kingdom and decided to split her own place off from the continent rather than stand up to a tyrant. She’s way overhyped and mischaracterized in this fandom.
If this video is real and not bs, that’s a fun way to poke at China’s history. The Earth Kingdom is more anchored in the culture of Imperial China, and historically, the Imperial Chinese Navy was weak and ineffective, to the point they were basically always losing to pirates.
@@Inquisitorsteve2 They were pirates who had been operating long enough to develop a culture of their own. It's debatable whether they should count as a separate people, considering that their society revolved around piracy.
@@Julian_der_Oesi You will find that, historically, pirates were labeled as "Hostis Humani Generis," or "Enemies of all mankind," meaning that under traditional international law, if you killed pirates, no one would think you were to bad guy, no matter how you did it. And in the modern day the UN is only vaguely less disapproving of Pirates.
I feel like there’s WAY more than 4 nations even in the original series. The two water tribes seem to self govern themselves, the “earth kingdom” has at least two kingdoms inside it each ruled by a different king (I don’t see the swamp benders paying taxes to the earth king or following his laws either)
I suspect the earth kingdom works a bit like medieval german empire. 1 emperor rules over many semi independent kingdoms. So bumi would im theory be under the earth king but in practice it does not get inforced this way.
This is a medieval feudal system. Think of Game of Thrones. Smaller Lords answer to an all powerful King. And also answer to the leader of the faith (The Pope IRL and Avatar in the show) who decides who is worthy to be king and who is not. See Aang crowning Zuko. So King Bumi answers to the Avatar and to the Earth King, he probably pays taxes to Ba Sing Se. Also remember Omashu is a religious city, as in "the origin of earthbending" and all, so maybe that is why it has a King, probably ratified up by an Avatar long ago, unlike the other earth kingdom cities. Where is the Eath Kingdom's Avatar Temple? You never know in the show but I bet it is in Omashu. (You have the Southern Air Temple for Air, Crescent Island for Fire, Northern Water Teibe for Water, but where is the Earth one?)
@@MainRapperAsahiIsBacktbf wan said he's closing it until humans and spirits could learn to coexist. And Korra opened it when humans and spirits learned to coexist lol
In a more high fantasy version, the earth kingdom would probably employ giant seaturtles(like the ones in subnautica) that secreted dirt while consuming minerals. That would be quite the sight. If you add airbenders or waterbenders to tje mix you could have submarines.
Kyoshi: "so what was that whole thing with the 5th Nation?" Yangchen: "it was supposed to be a coalition of all benders and non-benders in a safe and sustainable nation. A melting pot of different cultures." Kyoshi: "Which ended up with them turning into conquerors, tyrants and pirates. Honestly, who's idea was it to do that?" Yangchen: "It was mine." Kyoshi: "......." *SLAP*
And then Aang made fifth nation again with the mixed city un legend of korra. These air bending avatars really try so hard to mix the cultures and it always end in fights😂
I would imagine that in the very far future of the Avatar universe, the nations will split into 18 independent nations: Water, Fire, Ground, Rock, Steel, Poison, Dark, Ghost, Dragon, Electric, Psychic, Fighting, Flying, Fairy, Grass, Ice, Bug and Normal just like the Pokémon types…. Ground nation will be created by the sandbenders Steel nation will be created by the metalbenders Poison nation will get independence from the Steel nation after mastering the poison bending (like the red lotus did to Korra) Electric nation will get independence from the Fire nation by those who become masters of lightning bending Fighting and Normal nations will be created by the nonbenders Ice nation will get independence from the Water nation by those who can bend ice, and the other waterbenders who can’t bend ice will live in the original Water nation Dragon nation will get independence from the Fire nation by those who are more traditional with the dragons (like the Sun Warriors) Grass nation will be created by the plantbenders who live in the swamp Rock and Flying nations will be new names for the Earth kingdom and the Air temples Bug nation will get independence from the Flying nation by airbenders who develop special abilities that relate to bugs Psychic, Ghost and Fairy nations will be created by people who have a strong connection to the spirit world with different aspects and abilities Finally, the Dark nation will be created by the bloodbenders (since I had no other option)
They were not a real nation. It was a coalition of pirates and the reason Kyoshi put a stop to them was because they raided villages and enslaved the villagers. Technically Kyoshi didn't even put a stop to them, it was an accident as she was trying to save her friend Yun who was mistaken for the Avatar. He was trying to sign a peace treaty with them when they double crossed him and tried to kidnap him.
Such an entity is quite a short way from being a "real" nation. Just needs a central government to settle in and recognition of the surrounding powers.
@@chaotixthefoxprobably had soms leadership, they sound like norsemen. Vikings were just raiders and pirates, and since these guys and the norsemen both had vast coasts they probably traded a lot too so yeah they were an actual state
@@chaotixthefox they had a hereditary leadership. Their queen, Tagaka, being the most powerful they had when Kyoshi brought them down. But more importantly for being a nation, they didn't have any citizens or formal territory. In the name of territory were villages that they were free to pillage or enslave as the villages were too far for a weak earth King at Ba Sing Se to defend. Other than that it was mostly pirates that were running from the law.
@@chaotixthefox Like the CSA wasn't a real nation because despite having a central government during the American Civil War, they had near-zero recognition from the surrounding powers of the world.
If I had a nickel for every time an airbender avatar started a multicultural fifth kingdom in the avatar universe, I’d have two nickels which isn’t a lot but you know the rest
It would be funny if every Air Avatar in history tried to start a 5th nation, and every single one fails by the time the cycle comes fully around. Things don’t look good for Republic City if that’s the case lol!
@@drm726Considering how they literally had Aircraft on hand yet refused to develop them even after it was shown how effective they were against there navy (side note those ships are disgusting and make French pre dreadnoughts look good) showed me how incompetent they were lol
I really liked the idea of the Ocean Folk from the Legend of Genji fancomic, which were basically survivors from this fifth nation living on floating cities made of clay and plants. They were both earth and water benders and were related to the swamp benders
This was before she knew she was the avatar and was considerd a really bad earth bender. then they were trying to kill her and everyone found out real quick she was the avatar
@@facundomontivero2299Near as I can tell, the piracy bit didn't start until well after they were established. And besides, name me a nation that didn't engage in some 'high - risk trading' here and there.
Avatar Yangchen: Let’s make a nation that will unite benders and non-benders… Avatar Kyoshi: I don’t think so. Avatar Aang: As I was..I mean as Yangchen was saying… I’m amazed there wasn’t an Avatar that went psychotic from being the same soul with conflicting personalities and beliefs.
To be fair, Yangchen's turned into Pirates. Republic City hasn't done that...yet. Also the way I see it, they aren't reincarnations in the traditional sense. Roku's soul still exists and can have conversations with Aang, for example.
@@brolytriplethreat Considering that Republic City is blatantly based off of America, which is notorious for meddling in foreign affairs and overthrowing elected governments to install puppet governments, something tells me that the earth kingdom Avatar is going have to potentially come into conflict with Republic City.
Considering that so many came from the Southern Water Tribe, what if they could be linked to the Foggy Swamp waterbenders 🤔 I'd really like to know where they came from. MORE INFO ON BENDING MINORITIES LIKE FOGGY SWAMP & SUN WARRIORS
The Foggy Swamp benders are barely related to them. The pirates were more of a recent migration compared to the Swamp Benders since the Swamp Benders travelled to the Earth Kingdom Swamp several thousand years ago.
Kind of puts Avatar Roku's "The Four Nations were always meant to be just four" into perspective. Not just his opposition to Sozin's global conquest plans, but also his opposition to Avatar Aang's United Republic.
No, that's not it. The Swamp benders were the long time Waterbending residents of the Earth Kingdom, for a few thousand years(to the point of forgetting about their origins). The ones shown in LOK were recent immigrants spanning nearly a century.
I mean kyoshi didn’t do all too much to the fifth nation. All she did was bring up a giant wall of earth that was used by the others to stop the fifth nation. I would say the fifth nation was more so stopped by Jianzhu. Kyoshi was just kind of the assist
@@bless8874 it’s from the Kyoshi novels. Rise of Kyoshi and Shadow of Kyoshi. They are really good so I really recommend them. There are also yangchen novels. I finished the first one and am half way through the second. I’d recommend those too but the first one was a bit slow
@@Xtermenator217 thanks. I actually read the books but totally forgot about this plot element at the beginning of the kyoshi novels. I'm on Yang Chen's second book & yeah the first one was slow. I heard there's a Roku book coming out this year but it's not by the same author. Not sure how I feel about that
Zuko once mentioned an Earth Kingdom ship. Of course that was part of a lie he was telling to Zhao, and we never actually did see any Earth Kingdom ships that I can recall. Just smaller boats such as the ferry to Ba Sing Se.
@cjg8763 I mean the Earth Kingdom be big and obviously most of it is landlocked, so it makes sense we don't see much of its navy. Especially since it's likely inferior to the Fire Nation's industrialized navy for most of the war.
In addition to comics, there are a few chapter books as well. Known as the Chronicles of the Avatar. Has books for Kyoshi, Yangchen, and Roku so far. The avatar wiki has a page that lists all the released books related to avatar (comics and otherwise).
I reckon it would’ve been cool if the water nation had or were based off Polynesians. Instead of swamps benders, could’ve had north, south and tropical islanders
@@battlesheep2552I imagine them using the animals like fish and crabs in the water for their bending, reflecting light from the strong sun to blind their enemies, or, hear me out, MUD bending. So they are basically earth and water benders combined, launching attacks with mud, than removing the water from it mid-air so you have a spray of sand used as a cover to distract an enemy while they attack using the now normal water. Wow, I didn't really think there would be much possibilities, tell me what do you think about this idea!
I always wondered what was going on with those “earth kingdom” islands sandwiched between the southern water tribe, eastern air temple, and ba sing se. always wondered why the gaang never went there
I just read Kyoshi's book by F C Lee and it was so good! Detailed the 5th nation more, emphasized their piracy, and it was really fascinating and informative
Can we talk about how kyoshi allowed a dictator to conquer the whole earth kingdom outside of the wall and didn’t stop him until her town was threatened 😂
I want to see island water benders in the future, I imagine a Polynesian water bender culture and I’m beyond here for it. I feel like I would 💯 be a water bender, however catch me at the beach water surfing not freezing to death at the north or South Pole lol
@@MrNeilTV okay well you said you'd be on the beach and not freezing at the north or south pole and I'm saying there are already water benders out there not freezing at the north or south pole. They are in a warm swamp and seem horrified at the thought of freezing at the north or south pole. Katara did water surfing on the beach, looks like fun.
Is this part of the history behind Kyoshi island? It was connected to the mainland of the earth kingdom once but its people all dress in water tribe blues. Except for the kyoshi warriors. The island is a mix of both earth and water.
In the Avatar Kyoshi novels the 5th Nation are the villains Kyoshi fights in the opening chapters before she even discovers that she’s the Avatar. So this happened long before Chin the Conqueror. She was 16 and not even a fully realized Avatar yet
Honestly the "Earth Kingdom" just just a bunch of completely separate nations but the city of ba sing se claims to rule them all, and they just go along with it because they don't care.
Best part is Kyoshi wasn’t even considered the Avatar at the time, she was just the “Avatar’s” Maid that tagged along who during a fight casually shook the entire sea floor essentially destroying their entire fleet
If that fifth nation was consisted by people of the Southern Water Tribe, and non benders and benders of the Earth Kingdom, that make it a fifth "State" and not a nation.
I don't read much, but I listened to her two audiobooks on audible and I highly recommended them. I've listened to over a hundred books on audible and her two books are in my to 5. I think they are in my top two honestly. I've listened to them more than once, highly recommended.
I could remember that a friend of avatar Kuruk, who was a air bender caused a powerful storm at sea that killed lots of people who came from the fifth nation, which resulted in the other air nomads stripping him of any future he could have with them as they were pacifists and not killers.
I think the showmakers like to make a point of giving each avatar's actions unintended consequences. Each avatar did their best to achieve peace but the world will always balance that out. Kiyoshi lived so long tho so much is connected to her lmao
Also we should keep in mind that the Fifth Nation wasn't exactly a force of good. It was ran by Pirates who enslaved folks and pillaged Earth Kingdom ships. Heck they probably would still be around if they didn't try to betray a peace council between them and the Earth Kingdom by assassinating 'Avatar' Yun's waterbending teacher and attempting to kidnap him.
It wasn't really a war as they weren't really a nation. Instead it was a large pirate fleet that was gaining enough strength and numbers that they called themselves the Fifth Nation. They were essentially pillaging and enslaving folks on the Earth Kingdoms coast for decades before Kyoshi and company stopped them. Heck, saying Kyoshi did so herself is giving her more credit then she would allow, as she mainly was an important assist in the main battle, and ended up working to stop the fleet from being able to reform a few years later.
I would LOVE more lore/info dumps about this. I’m about to be running an Avatar Legends campaign that takes place in 20AG starting in Chameleon Bay. The first couple sessions are going to be dealing with pirates from the southern water tribe/remnants from the fifth nation, and one of my PCs has ties to them so I would love all the info you can spare!
@@chaotic7cam Warships setting things on fire is just what warships do. But the Earth Kingdom on the open ocean, far away from all earth is kinda hilarious.
In my Avatar series fanfiction, i made a Continent located in the west of the Bending World AKA Earthrealm and Avatar universe, it is called Westalia. I know it is sounds stupid but this one is heavily based on European aesthetics and inspired to both Medieval Europe and early-modern Europe where an Expansionist Empire uses their own version of Bending known as Elemental Magic or Elemental Manipulation magic, on top of that there are so many diverse people based on both European and Middle-Eastern as well as a Japanese-inspired Shogunate country as well.
@@foisopracurtir6389 It was on my DeviantART, basically they are the so-called Surviving Fifth Nation people and build their own country located in the western continents.
@@Daofei_4life Oh I was just throwing that out there because of the former game. Avatar Generations got cancelled on Dec 2nd last year after less than a year. I loved playing it and that's where I encountered Pirate Queen Tagaka and Taliriktug and 2 other pirates. I have no idea how Taliriktug is involved, just stats just said 5th Nation, pirate and waterbender. :P
Calling them a nation is maybe a bit much. They were a pirate fleet that got powerful enough for the already spread-out Earth Kingdom to declare them a threat. But it was more like a syndicate than a nation.
A nation is just a loose collection of people who sit on a patch of dirt and claim it's theirs. In what ways were they not a nation? Did they not have trade? Did they not have a government? Did they not claim land?
I’m currently reading the first Kyoshi book, she brought earth up from the sea floor and destroyed the iceberg they were all standing on. And that was before she knew she was the avatar.
A lot of these points are the same things John Lovell of Warrior Poet Society talks about in his book and general conversation. A lot of good points that im personally discovering there to be a certain amount of truth in these topics. Specifically, community and courage. I think community and the art of conversation are two major things that are dying that need to come back. John also talks about purpose. He comes at it a little different, but i like it. Basically, man must wage war. If there is no actual war, then he must make war with himself. Get in the gym. Learn that new skill. Confront that issue that everyone ignores. Wage war with yourself, to BE a better self. That concept alone has really helped me out the last few months
I notice that Kyoshi is a root problem to a lot of the problems in avatar. She had been avatar for over 200 years and was basically a god doing what she believed was right, strange how right after she’s gone the war starts or their even was talk of war. My belief is that the other nations were annoyed that they didn’t have an avatar of their own people for so long that a war like the fire nations was inevitable when she finally died. Didn’t help that Roku was to soft on Sozin. Just my belief on the matter
Her and Yangchen, if we're being real. It seems like whenever Earth or Air gets their shot in recent history, they always 🤬🤬🤬🤬 up so badly that Water or Fire (Roku) has to step up and clean their damn mess. Doesn't help that Kiyoshi compounded that by sticking around far longer than she should've.
I think I remember reading the dark skinned, makeup wearing pirate was descended from these people. It's also explain some brown skinned characters in the Earth kingdom like Jet and Kai
This is actually a very good argument as to why the avatar should not exist. Why should one person be able to decide which nations are and aren’t allowed to exist?
@@HelloFutureMeIIRC he was allied with Kyoshi, or they had aligned interests and she let him run amok, when he conquered the Earth Kingdom. It was only when he turned on her that she had a problem.
Youve built up such a stable realm and powerful bases that whenever you move to a different location your liege instantly declares a holy war and expands asap
It's heavily implied in the Kyoshi novels that the combination of her living so long, and micromanaging the nations so much to maintiain the status quo ultimately lead to the set of factors that started the Hundred Year War. She kept the Earth Kingdom within their massive borders they couldn't properly control, put down Qin, stopped the Water Tribes with their better navy from seizing the islands as mentioned here, and kept the Fire Nation cooped up. This breed a lot of resentment, and so when she finally died and the next Avatar loosened their grip the strongest nation at that point(The Fire Nation) lashed out massively, and by that point the Earth Kingdom had grown corrupt and complacent due to their place being secure for so long, and the Water Tribes had turned insular after Kyoshi crushed their attempt to expand outward here. While they would have been more wars in the short term without Kyoshi, there never would have been a massive genocide on the level of the Hundred Years War if things hadn't been locked in place so long
