The Roundtable Why does everyone think that the Plot twist was bad I think you’re pretty good he was your surprising that that’s what was good about it and the only one who like the animation
This is sad. Pink Diamond tried something both selfish, and selfless. She wanted to protect life on Earth, but her methods led to almost the worst outcome. She disguised herself as a Rose Quartz to villainize herself, stir up a rebellion against herself, and then tried to convince the other Diamonds that the rebels were too strong and that they had to abandon the Earth colony. When that didn't work, she faked her death to prove to the other Diamonds that the rebels were too strong. This backfired tremendously. The now vengeful Diamonds retaliated by using a song that corrupted almost every single gem on Earth, including their own forces, and left a time bomb near the planet's core. Pink thought she could save everyone, but doomed them all.
I honestly liked the twist. It gave rose/pink so much more depth as a character, makes me understand the character much more, and shows the extreme growth and development for her instead of her just being a random soldier/civilian/servant/slave wanting to be free like every other rebellion storyline I’ve ever seen. It makes the SU storyline truly unique. It also explained and deepened pearls relationship with her by 100 fold in my eyes.
Knuckles - Because she shape shift into a Rose Quartz, to help fake Pink Diamond's death, and she doesn't want shape shift because it reminds her of that time, and doesn't want to go back to that time.
I don't really get why people dislike this twist. It was built up in a really intriguing way and foreshadowed well and it can really push the plot in interesting directions i think.
I think people disliked the twist cause it was originally so obvious people that people had the expectation that the writers would leading to a subversion. They didn't. Even worse it undoes the one interesting and unique thing the story had going for it: how Steven is to deal with the possibility that his mother wasn't as benevolent as suspected and shattered a diamond. All that is undone and now we got Pink Diamond/Rose being a complete fuck up purely for her selfish desires. Before one could say that her errors were done with good intentions but now its purely selfish.
My problem isn’t actually with the episode, because I actually really enjoyed it. My problem with it is the implications it has for the show and all of the discrepancies. The more I heard people’s thoughts the more I found, like just a few include: Fusion (How can she keep shapeshifting while fusing?), the Zoo, Gem placement (Can gems rotate?), Pearl never breaking free of homeworld mindsets, gem size/look (Stevens gem is a lot smaller and is banded where pinks is not), ect. The list goes on.
I think its like chess or any boardgame. Sometimes in chess, a player makes a move that doesnt make sense until he/she succeeds with a checkmate. If pink was actually shattered by white diamond, many more questions will need to be answered like, "why did she shatter pink?" And the answer would most likely be pretty dull. This reveal may be a bit dull to some but at least it didnt involve white diamond. The last thing you want is to ruin white diamonds image
So many things that seemed inconsequential turned out to just be foreshadowing. 1. The first-person pink diamond dream. 2. The "Fancy Pearl" comment. 3. As mentioned in the video, Rose/Steven having more powers than normal for a gem. 4. Pearl insinuating that Rose and she were from Homeworld (Space Race), while Garnet and Bismuth both said that Rose was from Earth. 5. Pearl claiming that Rose didn't keep secrets from her (only). 6. My long-standing theory that Steven can compel gems to do what he wants by asking with enough emotion which is related to the literal mind control abilities he has with Lars and Melon People. Garnet saying "I can't say no to that face" may have been literal, possibly without Garnet realizing it. 7. That Rose knew what the corruption light was and that she was able to shield gems from it. 8. The Dewey/Rose parallels. Steven's insistence that characters should be flawed (Historical Friction). The unrequited affection between Pearl and both Dewey and Rose. Dewey's leadership and resignation 9. Steven/Rose's love of Schmaltz when all other quartzes are utilitarian in dress. 10. Baby Steven's pink diamond breathing whole in his jumper. 11. Pearl's Pink diamond on her space suit (hinting that her loyalties haven't changed). 12. Everyone's statements about Rose Quartz on Lars's spaceship including Garnets were false because of lies from the Diamonds. I need to rewatch everything now.
Abram Thiessen - your personal theory is awesome. And thanks for posting this. I thought that the "Rose is Pink Diamond" twist came out of nowhere, with no foreshadowing or burying of the seed, but there was plenty of evidence! And congrats to anyone who saw it coming.
Hannibus 42 You can't tell someone if the way they feel is right or wrong. Especially if it's about a fictional story. There is no "right" way to feel in this. It's a valid reaction that many other people have had towards this revelation. We don't have to be fond of it.
Ok, ok, I know its long but please hear me out, the reason why from a storytelling standpoint I love the twist is that it doesn't emotionally let steven off the hook. Ever since we found out that Rose "shattered" pink diamond, Steven has had to struggle with the idea that his mom was not perfect, which is something all kids go through at some point, that their parents have flaws and aren't just our heroes. Any theory where someone else killed Pink just kind of said: "oops just kidding, Rose is a saint who never did anything wrong in her life". But with this twist, steven is faced with even more confusing questions, instead of, "how could my mom kill someone?", it's "how could my mom be a tyrannical ruler for so many years?" and "how could she lie to everyone for so long?". Which is amazing because it lends more fascinating struggle for everyone in the show. I love steven universe because, despite the crazy gem stuff, it is a story with people who are genuinely screwed up: Lapis's PTSD, Peridot's inferiority complex, Lar's panic attacks, we relate to their struggles and understand that their worries won't have an easy fix, having Steven jumping back to the idea that his mom is a saint by having someone else shatter Pink is too easy a solution. Anyway, rant over, please feel free to debate me in the comments!!! Edit: Thank you for the likes guys!!
But now he can just think she's a saint because no one shattered anybody. I know there are many other things she did, but the catalyst for Steven's character drama was all a lie, and it rubbed me the wrong way.
Raven Sterling totaly agreed! I never even thought of what this means for Stevens strugles with his mom, but you are totaly right! That is going to be so interesting! Especialy since it seems like he doesn't get time to figure it out for him selfe since he now has to deal with the fighting breaking out between Ruby and Saphire. That's just going to lead to the point where everything bubbles up in him until he probably can't take it anymore. I'm really curiouse now on how they are going to deal with this!
Exactly. If we could trust the Crewniverse to portray Steven realistically during the "Who dunnit" arc, we can trust them to portray him realistically during this new arc. It's not like he'll go "Oh, problem solved, back to normal everybody!"
I find it interesting that Rose is now considered a "bad person" after it being proved she *didn't* shatter Pink Diamond (indeed, no one did). Not only is she no longer a murderer, but her confrontation with Bismuth is also not nearly so hypocritical.
BlueLemon There's being self-centered (which, as a Diamond raised by Diamonds, how could she not?) and unable to fully realize what your actions do to others...and then there's straight up murdering someone then imprisoning someone *else* because they want to do the same thing you "did."
@@trolleyfanbut she didnt "straight up murder" anyone. She never wanted to. The things she did and the people she hurt sucked a lot, but she literally would never shatter another gem. Bismuth insisted on it. For gems that could be poofed and held captive in bubbles, shattering was unnecessary
Why is everyone saying that this finally gets rid of the idealized version of Rose? Why are people acting like the show made her out to be nothing but perfect? We'd ve shown that she was keeping all sorts of secrets and lying to her friends since back in season 1. Any idea of her being perfect and unable to do wrong disappeared as soon as the idea of her shattering Pink Diamond came up. We have episodes like Storm in the Room and Bismuth that directly call out some really bad stuff she did. Rose has been incredibly imperfect for ages. But at least, before this twist, she was presumed to have a good amount of qualities too.
You know what I like? That we finally got an answer. It's not the direction I wanted, but I'm happy they finally just presented A direction. With all the meandering this show has had the past years, just moving forward is a positive to me.
Whole-heartedly agree. I feel like this show has a lot of plot with no direction or urgency. This topic introduces a whole host of drama and internal conflict.
Agree. It start to be ridiculous when people starting come out with more and more ludicrous theories about that. Joke that Pink died in Infiniti War were kind of spot on.
Same! I'm a bit of a casual fan of the show, and after Garnet told the story of the Crystal Gems rebellion I began to feel impatience. I just wanted a real answer, not *all* answers, but at least *one real answer* to feel like we aren't being strung along anymore. And I got it! I'm quite happy with the series moving forward and continuing the story, so happy that I don't even care if the next batch of episodes will just be more filler.
Dude, you’re not meant to like Rose Quartz. That’s the whole point. If you dislike the twist because it made you dislike Rose, then you actually like the twist, because it accomplished its goals.
Uuugh I really don't get why people are saying this made them dislike Rose. Sorry - just could you explain why we aren't supposed to like Rose and her choices after this, because to me personally it made me like and respect Pink Diamond more.
Horace the Cheese Pink Diamond was so unhappy with her role as a diamond that she started a war with herself, costing many lives, alliances, resources, and much more. After which she convinced her loyal Pearl to fake shatter her so that she could live in peace with her on earth, forcing her Pearl to keep it a secret no matter what. This resulted in the Diamonds being incredibly distraught and corrupting all leftover gem life on earth. Later, Rose straight up ditched Pearl for Greg, aka the Pearl who she knew loved her unconditionally and held a terrible secret, and then she ditched the rest to become Steven, who now has to spend his life dealing with the mess she left behind. This isn’t even mentioning characters like Bismuth or Jasper who were caught up in a war forged by one person and were destroyed by it. With Bismuth wanting to shatter Pink Diamond leading to Pink Diamond/Rose poofing her and never telling anyone, and Jasper devoting herself entirely to destroying the Crystal Gems to avenge her shattered Diamond who it turns out was never really dead. And much, much more than all of this. Seriously, just watch this video, and then maybe Steven’s freakout at the end of Storm in the Room and you’ll get the picture. And Rebecca Sugar herself said that Rose was a terrible person.
Odd Gaming Okay yeah these are all very good points, though I did watch the video. I find the becoming Steven one the most convincing since she must've known that would happen. I wonder what would've happened if she'd just ordered the earth not to be destroyed, maybe that would've been better than waging war on herself. Though that's also sort of the same as telling Yellow & Blue she didn't want a colony so I don't know I can't really keep up with it all. I was mainly just confused about peoples reactions since this version of PD seemed much better than the bratty or cackling ones from previous episodes. But if you look at Rose after all this I understand how it diminishes people's opinion of her, so thanks for the explanation!
I do think Rose Quartz is a flawed individual. But I do think that she wanted to act in the best interests of everyone. I do believe Pink Diamond tried to talk about the other diamonds and convince them to save the earth, after she grew accustomed to it. We see that she created a paradise for humans to live in. But there was probably a point where it was either Pink Diamond had to kill most of the human population and destroy the earth, or have another diamond take over the colony and do it themselves. So in order to save humanity, she had to start a war. But should a diamond revolt, that would be a massive deal. And it would likely be that Pink Diamond wouldn't be the one to suffer. It would be the Earth, and so taking the form of a Rose Quartz, it would be seen as a minor hiccup in the colonization process, weird but not urgent. And as Pink Diamond, she was able to sabotage Home-World's war effort. The war was never about the gems lives. It was about the sanctity of human life, and obtaining freedom to be who they wanted to be. I don't think that any crystal gem wouldn't give up their lives for at least one of those two causes. We don't know much about what was happening around Rose's faking her own death, but the war was obviously having a toll on the crystal gems, and probably humans. It is possibly the gem-shard experiments started before this occurred. I think it was heavily implied that if wasn't for the shattering of Pink Diamond, the rebellion would have been crushed, and the Earth destroyed. Though, as for the corruption. There is two possible routes. Either she didn't know about it, at which case it was a surprise. Or she did, and believed that corruption was preferable to death. We have already seen the first signs of healing corruption, not so much on the unshattering a gem. As for why she only saved two gems. Considering that Bismuth was unaffected, she could possibly saved more people. But if you just sent a wave of corruption done to a planet, and that planet isn't covered in corrupted gems. You might get the get the idea that it didn't work, and continue the war. I think it is safe to say that Rose had every intention to cure corruption, and believed that she could. As for why to force Pearl to keep the secret. I think that is pretty simple. Regret, Shame, a Desire to protect the people she loved from the truth. Pearl was her confident, keeping her secrets was literally a part of her job. And as for ditching Pearl for Greg, I do think that Rose genuinely did care about the both of them. And I have a head-canon that it is on shaking ground but it is interesting to think about. The creation of a half-gem, half-human hybrid could of been completely intentional. Just think about the effort she would have to go through to simulate a womb for a being that has never existed before. And she had always seem pretty confident that this would work. And again, I am not saying that Rose didn't love Greg, just because she wanted a child doesn't make it any less special that of all of the humans in the world, she choose Greg to have a child with. And I don't think he was picked for his prime genetic stock. As for a motive, it is possible that she never did stop trying to cure the corruption, and it is possible that Steven is her solution to bring back the crystal gems from the corruption. I mean, Rose Quartz had tried for centuries to cure the corruption, and apparently Steven managed to get closer than Rose ever did in decades. As for the mechanics of how it works, this is a separate but related theory, it is possible that Steven is able to be stronger than Pink Diamond since Pink Diamonds powers are emphatic, relating to emotions, so it is possible that Pink Diamonds powers were limited by upbringing, and her very nature as a gem and a diamond, but Steven would be human, and grow up in a caring household. Or possibly plot. TLDR: Pink Diamond isn't prefect, but she isn't evil. She was an immature person that had to grow up, and make hard decisions that possibly had no right answer. Like Steven. And possibly, in the end, it will be her efforts, whether intentional or unintentional, that saves everyone.
Steven: join me jasper.together we can rule the galaxy. Jasper:IL NEVER JOIN YOU. Steven:yellow never rly told you what happened to your diamond Jasper:she told me ENOUGH .she told me you killed her. Steven:No.I am your diamond Jasper:its not true.IMPOSIBLE Steven:search your feelings .You know its true Jasper:NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I still don't think Pink Diamond is evil, or more evil than the other Diamonds. As a viewer, I never got this belief at this reveal. It really doesn't make sense how a character that seemed to act naive and curious all the time would create such a complicated gambit to shatter as many gems as possible. Pink believed that her older siblings didn't care for her and wouldn't miss her when she's gone, hence the "shattering" of herself. The fact that she was dead wrong is a whole different subject. The fact that Rose lied about her old persona is because she wanted to be free, and no longer desired to be a Diamond. The other diamonds never seemed to listen to her, and wanted to keep colonizing, which Pink began to despise. Rose Quartz was her new life. To her, Pink Diamond is no more. She and the other Diamonds symbolize tyranny.
The idealized version of Rose kinda died the moment the idea of her shattering Pink came up. Heck, it was falling apart as soon as we started to be shown how many lies and secrets she kept.
I actually like PD being Rose. It’s something I didn’t think the writers would actually go for, so I was actually pretty surprised. By PD starting a rebellion and falling in love with the colony she was supposed to rule shows how she changed from the first time we saw her. I liked PD as a villain and always did hope she was a more grey character, and she certainly was. It does make me curious as to what actual Rose Quartz are like. Do they too have shields? Do the diamonds have weapons as well??
I like what it did to rose. I thought she was almost too perfect at the beginning, and I love how she got more flawed as we went along. I think this reveal was really a culmination of that
Not Trustworthy me too I think most people did. I think people are more expressing hate and disappointment towards Rose than the actual twist. Which is the point and is intentional towards the writing. The crew definitely has more in store for her.
Edda SanJuan I don’t think pearl was meant to be pink pearl. She has a white diamond gem and blue and yellow in her outfit. I think pink couldn’t create her own pearl so they gave her one
The Pearl we know has always had every Diamond’s color in her complexion, hair and outfit. Her gem is also in her head, not where Pink Pearl’s gem would be if it corresponded to Pink Diamond. Blue and Yellow Pearl both have gems in their chest, like their Diamonds have. By the time of the Rebellion, Pearl was with Pink. But I still think this rabbit hole goes deeper, since even the art doesn’t match what Pink Pearl would logically look like.
Because it's a pretty hard topic to begin with. Blue is just morbid enough to want closure while Yellow wants to just end Rose. Then somehow this "Rose" doesn't even remember how she killed their sister, and then later on her attorney spins the story to say that Yellow did it.
I like how this changes the whole bismuth conversation. Rose was not all 'though shalt not kill' it more then that she didn't want the diamonds to be shattered. She didn't want her own solders to be hurt. Also it explains a lot about pearl and roses relationship. Why they were so close and why it didn't work. I imagine that pearl always put her first and thats hard for an actual relationship.
BlueLemon why is everybody trying to vilify her? Just because she was a diamond doesn't mean she could stop the other diamonds. She was the youngest ad had one planet who knows knows how many the diamonds have. She tried to get them to stop the colonisation but they don't care about humans. Would they just except her views on the subject? Don't forget what kind off show this is. Pinks rebellion is like a gay person coming out to there parents. They wouldn't understand and they would reject her. They would likely just take her colony themselves. Separate her like trying to keep a child away from their gay crush. Rose naively thought the diamonds didn't care at all about her. The colony was in her name so they would leave it alone. And she was right to a certain extent. After a furious retaliation they did leave Earth for thousands of years. Yellow just wants it to disappear because off her pain hence the cluster. She was naive yes. And she should have told her friends. But we still don't know the whole picture. She was trying help. It's not like she wanted the attack to happen. She never expected they would go so far. The diamonds even destroyed there own tropes. But Rose has spent the last thousands of years trying to fix her mistake. It was a bad call. But ya she does care.
BlueLemon wow somebody got triggered. I'm not just blowing wind though. Look at the image off the diamonds talking to pd. Yellow sturn with back turned away and blue acting harsh critical and overbearing. Mind you this is PDs perspective. Pd has different 'views' from her parents. She has relationships with "humans" not to mention her closeness with her "servant" pearl. She kept this secret, this double life because she couldn't talk about it and she couldn't admit it to her "parents" they wouldn't understand they don't care. Sounds like someone in the closet. Now can you image blues reaction when she learns her daughter ran away cause she thought that didn't care? I see it. I'm not sure why your so upset. You can have a different opinion on rose. I think she cared about her friends and the diamonds. I think she made a terrible mistake and felt guilty about it. I know she has worked for thousands of years to fix it. And I know Rebecca suger said there was no true villian an that Rose felt incredible guilt. I know she'd didn't understand humanity until after she lived with them for awhile. I know pearl said they tried to get the humans back from the human zoo but failed. I think her situation is a lot more complicated then that. As for seeing a gay parallel in Roses story with the diamonds that's my opinion. I see a lot off gay parallels after all almost every character in this show is gay or bi. I would like to point out that even if a character is bad or good in a media they can also be gay. I don't think gay people should just be portrayed as "good" but rather as characters with flaws weaknesses ones that make mistakes in other words human. Maybe this reveal made Pd seem like a monster to you and you hate that I would draw gay comparisons. But honestly for me for once this character, I always saw as bi, seems actually realized. We just had an idea of her from different perspectives. I love how this deepends and further complicates her relationship with pearl. A character with a complicated past and motives. Someone trying to fix a terrible mistake. She's not just a symbol now. Well anyway....to each their own I guess.
Mikołaj Piątek I like the way you put that. Crystal Jesus. I also agree with this. With everyone talking about how Amazing and Perfect Rose was and it was a lie. It makes me a bit happy to know she was flawed...
Michael is burning in the bathroom well despite being the HARDEST material on Earth you can still shatter a diamond IRL with a hammer because hardness is different from toughnes
Meeshell ART OMG YES. Thats exactly what i thought. Roses powers must be the same as Pinks. So its unbelievable that noone thought that its suspicious that Rose has PDs powers and gem weapon.
I think AV is not giving Pink/Rose a chance. This is the first time we really heard from Pink herself. We don’t really know her yet. I don’t think he is being petty because his theories were wrong. He just really did not like the reveal. And it was funny when he threw away the Pink Funko 😂😂😂😂.
I think so many people are attributing too much nefariousness to Rose. I want to think she has totally compassionate reasons, she is not actively manipulating people, but she didn't know everything and she was a tad naive, so things went wrong and she did not always understand things. The idea that Pink Diamond was quite young just adds to that naivety and explains why Rose got things wrong. Rose looks motherly, but she was growing herself.
I have theory that kids project they fear of childish on Pink and treat Ross as perfect mother figure which she never was. As such they project Pink as personification of evil and ignore numerous hints connecting both characters. I generally see same reaction like in case of Shinji Ikari fanboys or from more recent Princess Twilight haters, so it isn't anything new for my.
Yea, I mean we barely know Rose. All we have ever gotten is other character's perspective on her, which is more exaggerated. We barely know Rose/Pink as a person.
Hessed3712 I mean, we do know Pink Diamond if you think about it, she didn't become a tyrant on her first colony, she saw the value of life and wanted her people to see it too. It wasn't her fault that the other Diamonds corrupted every other gem on earth, she couldn't have known
And we saw her progression into Rose. I'm sure that the human zoo was started as an initial attempt to at least save some humans, probably after she failed to convince Blue Diamond to just spare Earth.
They are the same person, because anything one of them says the other agrees with... They both literally made a video today because they're butt hurt by the reactions they got
I still have mixed feelings about it, but I do like it more than not. It also reveals (I suppose) that gems can rotate their gems when they shapeshift (or at least very skilled ones can)
EJ Matthews besides Blue, yes (I forgot what her gem looks like, but I think the bottom of her gem has a longer point?) you’re right. Though I kept thinking all gems can shapeshift, I keep forgetting that obviously not all can.
I understand why you don’t like rose anymore. But ‘pink diamond’ was made out as the bad guy by rose, which is pink diamond. Rose didn’t like being pink diamond so came up with the story of rose quartz rebelling against her because she was supposedly evil by not letting them leave earth. But since rose is pink diamond, she was the one who fell in love with earth. All these stories were made up basically. The only different way we could find out pink was evil is if we get evidence off another gem who served pink diamond. But I personally love pink diamond because now we know she’s rose quartz, you’re thinking that rose quartz is the bad pink. But pink is actually the lovely and nice rose a lot of us love. She may have been a supposed ‘brat’ Before colonising earth. But earth is the reason she did what she did. We haven’t heard any other gems that we know that knew pink diamond say bad things about her. Apart from garnet who was told by rose that pink was the bad guy when she actually wasnt. The pictures of pink being evil are simply the ‘fake’ stories that were told. But overall, you can have your own opinion and I respect that. Your channel is amazing and you release awesome content. I love your channel☺️👏🏼❤️
Ryan Dale That's true. Although there has to be more truth in the stories. Especially how she treats Pearl. (It's kinda sad that she was just messing with everyone else in her face like that.) It's a bit cruel.
He's more upset by her actions and her manipulation. She saved the Earth, but there were so many lies and lives on the line. I like this reveal and I like PD even more now, but I like possible villains. He doesn't seem to mean he dislikes her now because PD was painted bad, he dislikes her because of how she did things. But this episode is still very shaking. Whether you like it or hate it, we have to admit it was a great episode.
angelica vasquez all the shattered gems from the war is the cluster so they are very much alive just can't take form. The only true crime u can hold Pink accountable for is all the innocent REAL Rose Quartz gems she bubbled so her Rose Quartz form would be the only one around and nobody would suspect why that particular Rose Quartz was more powerful than the rest.
Also Pearl lead herself on u can't blame Rose/Pink for not having feelings for someone who never properly addressed it. Like come on have u not seen the flashbacks Rose was never truly in love till Greg talked to her and got through to her if it wasnt for that she would have thought they was just having fun so why all the hate for that?
angelica vasquez u have a good point but have u tried looking at the situation for what it is, A Diamond putting organic life over a colony? That would get frowned upon. A Rose Quartz who was suppose to be any other soldier taking a stand and fighting for whats right? Seems like a hero. The way I see it is Pink Diamond couldn't convince the other Diamonds to stop, as seen in 'Cant go back' she gave plenty of excuses but never told the real reason because they wouldn't understand so she made Rose Quartz, someone who was made to follow instructions but decided to act on her own decisions and think abiut more than colonies, someone who poses a threat to the Diamonds, someone who could talk to other Gems that was too scared to bring certain things to the Diamonds. The Crystal Gems started for the right reasons she just needed a way to make people want to join and not get looked at differently and it worked. Besides she didn't want to be a diamond for this exact reasons "this is pink diamonds colony" her referring to herself like that really shows u how annoyed she was.
This doesn't really make rose/pink diamond a villain I mean garnet said something about pink diamond saying some stuff and it sound evil but we cant take her word for it cause 1. I don't think garnet has seen pink diamond and that's just a story rose could have told 2. When pearl poofed pink diamond it seem like it was night and no other gems were around 3.pink diamond did say she wanted to live with the humans and she made the crystal gems to protect the planet instead of taking it over and killing all the life on it.
the connection steven has with the diamonds makes sense rose acting the way she did also makes sense. She’s a child who wanted to rule, the way she didn’t flat out tell blue and yellow she wanted earth to be alive the way she thought her death would have no real consequences because she’s too immature to think properly. The way steven felt his gems his moms pain seeing blue still crying over pink, the connection.
Things I'm excited about w/ the new reveal: Jasper redemption arc White's reveal The Diamond's reactions, I especially want Yellow development after hearing her sing her song Greg and the townies' reactions Escapism Bismuth Centipeedle Off colors Lapis (who left right before they found out!) What is season 6 gonna be about? Will there be a 7th season ( I doubt it :( )?
Still sounds like sour grapes. Would be more honorable just to simply say you were wrong and give credit to those who stuck with the Rose is Pink Diamond theory instead of making a spin about how you are half correct. I feel you are a better person if you just do that.
A better person? He's human just like the rest of us. He made two videos about what he did and did not like about the episode and people still aren't satisfied.
Well i am here early. The reveal was kinda predictable. But theres so many more open doors now. It opens a lot of doors to exploring the other chracters now. I wonder of pearl will also be public enemy # 1 she knew the whole time! I am sorry let me rephrase. I understand pearl was not able to tell. But she couldve showed a long time ago. But thats just how the shows directors wanted it and they nailed it! And it was a very good twist in the story I loved everything about it.
lovely shadows as a first point the predictability of the “ plot twists” as a whole can be questioned because the fact that it was so predictable was because the crewniverse put a build up to pink being rose like the pink diamond dreams those were clues to pink/rose being the same person so if you want to call it a plot twist than yes it’s predictable but as a plot point I think they did well to hint at it without making it a 100% thing, it’s really all about how you look at it I guess. And as a second point I don’t think you can blame pearl she physically couldn’t tell. Her body would literally not let her, but I think the gems having to coupe with the pearl and rose lie and the whole diamond situation is going to make for a great story line.
The reveal is highly jarring, but I think that was the intent. I think your feelings about Rose are precisely what they were shooting for. Here's this character who was built up like a legend, a goddess. She was this incredible being that Steven felt he could never possibly live up to. Little by little, she has been torn down as a huge pack of lies. The Gems rooms are a reflection of their personalities. Rose's room is all make believe. As the show centers around Steven, I get the sense that he is going to learn that he is not Rose and he is not Pink Diamond. He is Steven. In the end, Steven will grow to accept and love himself for who HE is, despite where he came from. And that will be a beautiful lesson. Edit: Minor grammar
I think it's very true to life as well. There have been many stories, real and fictional about people who had been venerated in life, only to find out later or after they've died that there was a lot of terrible secrets they kept.
One thing that still kind of bothers me... didn't they scan Steven's gem before the trial? Shouldn't they have noticed from that scan that it was not just a rose quartz gem?
It wasn't your comments that felt off-putting, to me. It was when you threw that...what's it called, Pop toy of Rose in the trash as a result. It reminded me of when Patchy threw away all his Spongebob merch. Back when he assumed the Lost Episode may have been a ruse. One should never let a reveal within a series destroy their love for the entire thing. It feels quite boorish and an offense against the creators. A bit like when parents got upset over Derpy Hooves' voice, mannerisms and name. I'm happy with the twist and happy that the age-old matter has, at last been resolved...in a sense. Now, we can go onto other things that must be done; before the end. Like Jasper and Centipeetle's restoration, the approach of the Diamonds, Lars' return and other things. So, let's all keep giving the Crewniverse the support they need
The thing is as a series develops their are often characters that are hated that turn into ones who are loved and vice versa. I feel it's the mark of good story telling when you can feel so much hate for a character you once loved. It also wasn't as if he was throwing out all his steven universe merch and saying he hated the the whole series. I understand where you are coming from and it is sad to see someone hate or love a character you don't but that's just someones opinion and you can rarely change those.
Understood, I simply just can't bring myself to fully HATE Rose...yet. Because while she may have done bad things, she also did some good. Without Rose, Garnet wouldn't discover the positives behind fusion. Amethyst would've forever hated herself for not coming out right as a Quartz. Pearl, while still remaining faithful to Rose/PD, wouldn't have discovered her own self worth. But most of all; without Rose/PD, Steven wouldn't exist and he wouldn't be correcting much of his mother's errors today. So, you see; I still hold onto her being a good person. Who knows; come the summer, we may get more insight on the situation. Which in turn, may lead others to change their thinking on her
Good joke.. because shamefully despite dropping episodes like crazy we now basically can predict most of his stuff for upcoming year. Hint.. it test best with fires.
Huh. I wonder if Rose was even originally created by Pink to be the a rebel leader. I can totally see Pink wanting to explore on her own terms instead of being cooped up in the moon base and shape shifting into rose just so she could see for herself the planet. Then she could be at unrest about the way the diamonds treated the planet and her fellow gems and accidently gained following, then getting caught by her pearl and ending up with her being apart of the rebeli- HECK OH. Vox I just realized something. To everyone saying the war was pointless cause Pink could have just said she wanted to keep earth whole and make a new colony else where. REMEMBER The war wasn't just about the earth. It was a rebellion against the cruel heirarchy of Gen Culture ITSELF. Earth was meath to become their refuge. Pink didn't just want to save earth, but also herself and every other gem that didn't fit into Homeworlds ideals. How exactly do you tell your family that? How do you tell them you should be allowed to be best friends with your slave girl? That you should allow two different gems to be happily fused together. That a mighty diamond could romantically be with a HUMAN? The Gem War was inevitable from the moment Pink decided she couldn't stand to be apart of Gem Culture anymore. It would have happened eventually, but it Pink outright rebeled all three diamond would have destroyed her. Setting up a minor rebellion that could be ignored by higher ups actually seems the perfect way to help rebel gems have time to gain in numbers and cumulate enough of a threat to keep the Homeworlds gems away. If one didn't account for the Diamonds actually loving Pink and did account for them seeing her as just a place holder or an off-color it seems like the perfect plan to separate from Gem Society. Ok Rose is still flawed as heck but you can't say her war was pointless.
Came to see if he was any less salty but nah he isn't. I'm glad to have an interesting character like rose on SU. The foreshadowing done in the show clearly pointed out her true identity. Remember sometimes the simplest explanation is the best explanation. The salt continues to be real. In another video he said he laughs at us for believing pink was rose. And in that video he said that we were just plain wrong. Which explains why he was is salty.
Logan Firmin Here's why: > caused a war rather than stand her ground >used pearl and strung her along >silenced her >left Bismuth to rot > abandoned Pearl for Greg > lied to everyone > had the diamonds mourning over her > lead to the corruption and shattering of many gems >forced fusion >and created Steven while disregarding Pearl's feelings and then subjecting Steven to all her baggage!
Lauren Hymes Standing her ground... Maybe she tried talking to her sisters but it didn't work since they don't listen to her :( Plus of course her sisters would not want the colony to stop; their population needs to grow after all
Lauren Hymes Bismuth has the gem shattering weapon. That’s why Rose kept her in a bubble. And the reason Steven was crying in that one episode when he was near Blue Diamond is because Pink/Rose felt bad- or something like that. Though I guess that’s her fault. Pearl was loyal to Rose/Pink and was willing- so-
See that’s the thing I like about her. The way I see it, Pink had so much baggage and caused so much trouble(even as Rose)but is now redeeming herself as part of Steven. We’re actually getting a two for one special watching the evolution of a character. Quite smart on Rebecca’s part.
Lauren Hymes not to mention rose was hella selfish and super naive... she has no concept of th others feelings... plus now I feel like she only saved earth because she didn’t want her moms (aka yellow and blue) to take her “toy away”... this feeling intensified after thinking about the human zoo...
I thought the plot twist was fine. I think that people are more mad that Rose was a liar than the actually story itself, which is the whole point. Rose/PD is being set up to be a flawed gem and the writing is intentional. The Crew including Rebecca wants you to hate this character but to show just how many consequences there are to mindless thinking. Now everyone is overcoming one of the biggest struggles in the show (a mental battle).
Lucas Martinez It pisses me off that people are just dismissing PD and the plot reveal of the show “bad writing “. That’s the thing I hate about the Steven Universe community. If it’s not exactly what they want and if any character isn’t perfect or messes up that makes the show bad. It always feels like they’re trying to find the next thing to nitpick and blow way out of proportion. I’m not saying the show is perfect but it seems like there are a lot of people in the community who act like they dislike the show. I mean if you don’t like the show why are you part of the community and watch the show? I mean everyone has the right to critique the show and that’s totally fine. But some people who claim to be fans just mindlessly bash the show over things that aren’t valid
“Being right isn’t the end all be all for me.” “I don’t care if I’m right or wrong.” But...you spent like half of this video saying things like “A lot of theories were ACTUALLY right” and talking about theories you were half right about, and giving yourself kudos for half-accurate theories/giving a lot of excuses for things you got wrong trying to validate them. I dunno man, I think it’s just slightly off-putting when any time you’re right, you make it a point to pat yourself on the back in your vids and make it an aside. Yet you got this wrong and sort of...can’t graciously take the L? Like you have to add a “BUT...” and keep talking about being right in some capacity. I think you put out really good content, and I totally understand a lot of the other stuff you’re putting out in this video, your reasons for liking and not liking things for example, which are really poignant reasons and make perfect sense. It’s just that, on a totally separate note, It really does feel like you care wayyyy too much about being right or wrong.
Honestly I feel like I will never see Rose the same again, I feel betrayed and lied to but at the same time I love Pink Diamond as a person because of her supposed change of heart, loving the earth and gave up her life as a diamond.
One question I'm left with after the reveal, is can Steven rotate his gem to access a "Diamond Form" - it seems unlikely as his gem is set solidly inside his blessed belly. Then again, Steven DOES seem to have morphing and fusion powers that would necessitate his body isn't quite as "solid" as people may think.
Hm, good question. I think his gem is in this position becouse Rose reformed her selfe after beeing poofed as Pink that way, so she didn't have to shape shift the rest of her life. But figuring out if Steven is able to rotate his gem by will like Rose was able too would be just as interesting as to figure out of he can actually poof! I hope that's something the show talks about in future episodes!
I loved the plot twist because I saw it coming since the beginning. It also translates to potential in the future episodes, and I love pink diamond, she's a novelty within her species, like a sort of mutation.
I didn’t really like Rose but now knowing she was pink diamond made me like her alot more. Reminds me of God of War of how Kratos left his life behind to be TRY and be someone, something different ( ik I’m reaching with that one lmao)
Lil Uzi Goat Such as... Steven have any access to any handprint lock thing (idk what its called), Baby steven foreshadowing, Feels unease when the drill is hitting the cluster..., and some powers that normal gems shouldnt have.
Skyrecruit5454 - The King of Nonsense becouse Pink was portrayed as a villian by Garnet and others, so now they all think Rose is a villian too becouse they don't realize that everything we learned about pink from others was a lie. The only informations about here that are true are those we learned from Steven
Can we give the Crewniverse a hand? I mean, they combined four theories into one. Let's review: 1) Rose Quartz is Pink Diamond 2) Pearl is Pink Pearl 3) Pearl used shape shifting to "shatter" Pink Diamond in Rose's place 4) Pink Diamond staged her "death" I mean, wow. I didn't even think that was possible
Fan theory debunked: of course Bismuth knew because she specifically made the sword for Rose, also im pretty sure the other Gems knew too considering she used it during the war so she wouldn't risk harming gems. She bubbled Bismuth for the same exact reason Steven did she got out of control and wanted to resort to shattering but Steven like Rose didn't like that idea and they both fought Bismuth.
Another point is that she was merciful enough to poof enemy gems, but there were definitely lot of gems from her own court fighting her. She can’t shatter her “children”.
I love how we have these feelings towards Rose without ever really getting to know the character ourselves. We only see her through flashbacks and stories! It's fantastic.
I don't know, I say a gem war is better than a whole species being wiped out. I mean, it was the war or the destruction of Earth and annihilation of the human race. Remember what gems do to planets for resources. The war was a better option, as much as people don't like to admit it.
knight mare More like a necessary evil. The war was necessary to save the most people. The gems serving there would also have been worked until they weren't useful anymore. If thousands of gems died to save billions of lifeforms and the planet itself, then I approve of it.
Rusty I think she will come back at some point soon enough, Lapis just isn't what they want to focus on but they needed to go ahead and make this episode to give Lapis reason to come back but still having an emotional triumph.
I don't think we were ever meant to actually like Rose Quartz. We were meant to be like Steven-- jaded by the love that others had for her. We were meant to like this projected image of her. But as time started to peel her layers back there are small shifts and reasons to doubt her that are all obviously planted within the show with intent looking back. I think her real reason for existing in the series, at least the larger moral picture of it, is for Steven to be able to rise above her, in a sense. Like he's so focused on living up to the expectations of his "perfect" mother for such a long time in the series, and now he's learned about the [presumably rest] of the skeletons in her closet and he's got to deal with the backlash. He has to deal with the "sins of the father" so to speak and not only come to terms with her [Pink's/Rose's] faults and sins, but also what that means for him and his legacy and life with the CG's. I think this is really going to be a story of how he overcomes and surpasses her in ways people could only imagine. I think it's going to show that he can be the person that "Rose" could never be, not by trying to emulate her ideals but by being himself-- by being compassionate, full of love, and so very human. I think a lot of what's going to have to go on going forward is a theme of forgiveness. And not the kind of forgiveness that's for the person being forgiven-- but forgiving others to let oneself heal. I really hope they take it this direction anyway. I think then this arc will really carry weight and will cumulate a lot of important themes peppered throughout the story. In the end, the way they decided to go about the reveal was pretty well written. It was interesting, with some comedic moments that are indicative of SU and emotional in a very real way. I think they took a fairly cliche theme (the "luke, I am your father" theme as I like to call it) and pulled it off in a way that worked well for the series... if there is a deeper theme behind it and I'm not just reading into it too much lol. Anyway, you make some pretty great points in both videos and I want to thank you for your time and dedication for the fandom, man. You rock!
Horace the Cheese Well I mean if you want the really obvious one, the fact that she was a huge part of a totalitarian regime is a start. You could argue she was born into it, but even the way she eventually escaped her roll leaves much to be desired. Just from what we have seen, she lied and manipulated pretty much everyone, indiscriminately. Maybe she thought it was the only way to reach her ends, which were by and large good goals where she may have thought the ends justify the means, but that doesn't mean the things that she did were not bad things, regardless of the reasons she may have had to do them. And there were serious repercussions for her actions too-- Blue Diamond grieved for her for millennia... And almost all of "Rose Quartz's" followers were turned into scared, mindless beasts. All but three gems that trusted her and followed her into her rebellion were shattered either in body or mind. You could argue that end might justify the means, but does it really? The loss of life was astronomical, and the chance of the diamonds eventually destroying Earth was very high (I mean look at the cluster?) Even out of the three gems left, two of them (Garnet) were completely left in the dark and lied to for thousands of years even after the war was over. I'm getting rambly because I'm on mobile but you should kind of get the point. There's a lot Steven has had to deal with in the show already because of the mess his mother left behind with just her persona and with this news, you can bet there's gonna be more fallout to come.
i think it goes farther than “you just dont like you were wrong”. Because of the theoryhead perspective, you and the other SU theoists had preconceptions about rose, whos a character that we knew barely anything about, then was disappointed when the show didnt align with your preconceptions. Other theorists reacted very badly to the execution, and no doubt have HUGE problems with being “wrong” about their preconceptions, and that underlying theme is why theory vids are so hated by much of the community. Sometimes going as far to nitpicking discrepancies to highlight how its unfair and bad writing. Theres more passion and acceptance going into theoretical fantasy of the show then the actual content and medium and thats frustrating to many to see people disregard the writers intent entirely for an off course mind blowing theory. Im glad you let the episode sit for a few days so you could react to it with a level head.
Gustavo Silva he can’t be half three things. Its a third of each one, otherwise he would be an individual and a half. And tbh he is so great he can be 1 and a half. (Im sorry im just being annoying, no hate, just kidding)
Love the comment Theory wise I think sapphires can only foresee what they’ll experience and see themselves. If she didn’t believe rose was PD despite seeing this, she would have disregarded it. Like we see in the pool hopping episode, she might see all but it doesn’t mean she knows all. And if she wasn’t with PD or Rose when PD was ‘shattered’ then she never would have foreseen it.
She can only foresee stuff she focuses on ~ i mean some of us thought the pink rose diamond theory was just stupid... Why would Garnet/Sapphire will research on that she did not see it coming maybe she saw and like most of us we ignored it....
Lali Vang yes, she isn’t a rose quartz, but she shape shifted into one, meaning that her appearance is a rose quartz, so her fusions will be between any gem and her, a quartz. I believe that if she shape shifted back into pink diamond it would then change how fusions look.
Honestly, the one thing the May episodes really excited me with was the fact that Lapis finally has her own song. Like, everyone stop arguing about the Rose-being-Pink-Diamond plot twist for just a moment, and take the time to acknowledge this. Please. It's just precious
Honestly, that was my favorite part of it. My viewer persona watching the show did enjoy the plot twist, but as a fan of Lapis herself, I loved her new song. It was fantastically made and sounds amazing. Her voice actor was on point in that episode and the emotions felt completely genuine.
i still dont see her as a villain. but i do see her (before the song of corruption at the closest to today) as childish, naive, and basicly the diamond equivlent of a teen who thinks everyone (specific older siblings and parental figures) is against them. the kind who cant see that tough love is still a form of love, that blue's advise, that yellow's frustration, their collective lecturing of her, were out of love and wanting her to come to her own. they couldnt possibly have known she would fake her own death! just like parental figures can never guess that one day their tough love would drive their child away (i say parental figure but i prefer seeing blue and yellow as elder siblings, parental figure is just easier for people get what im saying). Pink faked her death asuming her family wouldnt be heartbroken. she isnt evil, she was just misguided and naive. prety sure the song of corruption was an absolute wakeup call, she didnt think they cared so she expected little to no responce, not total devistation. (i mean her plan was a bet on Blue's own words, taken int he opposite direction. "as long as there is a diamond, the colony will be complete") so to me her time afterwards was her redemption. and possibly even still today, viewing the world through steven is her redeeming herself. im not saying she shouldnt be held responsible, im saying she deserve that chance to earn back respect. what i want to know now is what the actual hell is white doing?! what role did she play in Pink's disociation from her family if any. was she a good elder? did she neglect them to do other things? we need these answers!
I mean it makes rose a different character (literally and figuratively) but disliking her as a character doesn’t make me dislike the show. I mean I kind of didn’t like Rose already.
Akumu74 every character serves a purpose and is not meant to necessarily be liked. The Crewniverse and Rebecca have said she’s not a good person. Her writing was intentional and you’re supposed to hate her. However she serves an important purpose to plot progression and bridging mysteries.
After The Trial I theorized with my brother that either Rose was Pink Diamond and Pearl shape shifted to pretend to kill her or Pearl just straight up killed her. The idea that White Diamond was behind it somehow came in third. I'm kind of chuffed that one of my top three theories was right on the money. And I'm really happy about the twist, because I love exploring morally reprehensible and/or morally gray characters. Also, the show at it's heart has always been about family. Because of that, it makes way more sense that the Diamond Authority are estranged family members and the moral is about overcoming differences and disagreements to form stronger relationships rather than just be about a straight up war.
And now Steven must go and learn to become Pink Diamond in an anime style transformation scene to unlock his full potential and to convince the other Diamonds that he's who he says he is :P Anime arc GO!!
Arrien Cretens yeah since Steven was technically rose quartz reincarnated this means Steven is a diamond. What if yellow and blue found out? First off how would lapis and peridot react?
Kánnár Zoltán I’m sure yellow and blue would be furious for their own reasons. They’d probably call it an insult and an abomination of the highest order. Blue would feel devastated and hurt that her own friend lied to her all these years and yellow would most likely wanna crush Steven under her own boot but not before shattering the rest of the crystal gems in front of him.
The thing I only believed was that pink was never shattered and Steven is somehow connected to her ... These two are the backbones that have been shown n foreshadowed in the series
she is not a hero, villain, or Anti-hero. She is a character that always did what she wanted. Sometimes she was wrong, sometimes she was right, but people are mistaking a flawed complex character with a evil character and that's frustrating
one of the criticisms ive seen from a lot of people is that the plot twist was too obvious but there were a lot of theories that came true that, to my knowledge, no one put together (pink diamond wasnt shattered, she shattered/conspired to shatter herself, pearl shattered pink, rose shattered pink, rose is pink) and to me that just shows how well the seeds were planted for this reveal. plus i stopped liking rose ages ago so if anything her being a diamond is just validating my opinion of her
Lol, I think a lot of people thought Pink was a villain on account of her being a diamond but I've never once thought of her as being villainous. All we had seen of her suggested someone who was somewhat childish and naive but we never saw any malice from her so it doesn't make sense that Rose is now bad because she's Pink. People who didn't have preconceptions about her are able to enjoy this reveal and like her even more, I find. But of cause everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and feelings so I'm not trying to suggest that we all feel the same about this but I really loved it and like Rose quite a bit more than I did before this. Separating facts from the story and opinion and not letting theories influence your feelings about characters is important here. I had not been invested in Pink because there was nothing to be invested in, and Rose had me confused because of inconsistencies in her character but consolidating everything makes her complete and consistent.
What I don’t like is how so many people turned on Rose when they found out she was actually pink diamond, I mean she’s literally the same person she was before you started hating her, just now we know her true self.
Ryan P but she lied about who she was to them and jeopardized many people that were fighting to bring honor to her death (like Jasper). I mean think about if the person you knew or were fighting for for 1,000s of years lies about who they were. Pink Diamond may have not meant harm but her mindless thinking came with consequences. I like where the show is going and can’t wait to see what they do with her next!
What it did do was make Rose Quartz a deeply flawed and complex character. To some extent, she needed to be knocked off her pedestal (This is why it will hit Garnet the hardest. Particularly Sapphire because Sapphire gave up a lot). Did Pink Diamond have any other possible option to save Earth? Did she try anything that didn't involve lies? Pearl becomes a truly tragic character, which I love. (I loved Professor Snape in Harry Potter) Rose didn't give Pearl orders, but what was Pearl going to do without her diamond? Live in exile? Be reassigned or shattered? Pearl's love caused her layers upon layers of trauma. Pearl still serves Pink Diamond. She takes care of her diamond's failed colony and her son and even fixes her lover's van.
I was thinking that the pink pearl that fuse with a ruby was pink diamond pearl but that pink pearl got replaced and pink diamond got a new pearl that is the pearl we have and know
Well, I was one of those people who called Rose's gem being Pink Diamonds on it's side... but I would have been JUST as happy if I was wrong as it would have meant the show had surprise me. Even then, the way it was all revealed was beautiful to watch. Making theories and exploring ideas is never a bad thing, if people are always afraid to be wrong the human race would never make progress! Love, freedom, all that other fake Rose Quartz stuff people!! ;)
She did nothing wrong she protected the planet She loved even if it meant to change everything abd sacrefice her priveligies. Fight in a war, to protect the planet And the humans And the animas from being killed... Earth woud be a terrible place. Remember what peridot showed us that it woud look like if Rose just made the colony Grow? Rose woud be all unhappy And not free And the humans woud be dead. Except for the zoo luky ones... That is just not fair
There's gonna be another twist so I'd save the freaking out for later. The crewniverse is incredibly brilliant so stuff will start getting really crazy.
Yeah, I was high one dae and was like: H-hey, G-Caleb, w- “hic” what if you just flipped th- gem on Rose Quah- wartz, and it’s the pink di- diamond? Then I started werking ahnn Stevnn universe. And I’m todulay naht high nou.
i like how the twist brought everyone's theory's into one but i don't like how rose is pink diamond cuz there is so much she could have done to prevent things like corruption
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