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The main clue that this is the true story is how much descriptions of the Primus emphasize that he would never lose a battle, that his tactics are beyond anything - and then they feed you the most absurd story about him going alone to face Zovaal like a noob and becoming a prisonar. It is clear that the only way for the Primus to be defeated is if his being defeated is what he wants and advances his goals.
@@Pyromancer I personally think this is just a bad attempt at making the Zovaal look cosmically dangerous, in an attempt to validify their poor villain. They changed the concept art because of lack of planning, because they didn't have things put together yet. We see this in Dragonflight as well. It is just poor story work. And I would prefer to forget Shadowlands alltogether, let alone give it credit for being thought out and elaborate.
Or it could just be, like... bad writing. Good lore, but bad writing. Writers who don't read a lot of related litterature, who refuse to admit they're simply not a good fit for WoW's setting. I mean, the lead narrative designer is on record saying the ending to Game of Thrones was brilliant. I don't know if I'll trust the writing acumen of someone who thinks like that.
Zovaal didn’t really give the vibes of somebody very smart or in control, more like a caricature puppet manipulated into being a generic bad guy for us to chase while the primus orchestrated events in the background. The dude was a tactician and archiver in the afterlife of battle. Being a master of manipulation magic, it makes far far more sense that the primus was the real architect for events that happened from lvl king to shadowlands. Zovaal even had a total tonal change as he was defeated as he went from Saturday morning cartoon villain to trying to warn us as the magic faded and he reverted to his proto form. He felt like a puppet because he was. And the primus walks off Scott free for now because we the agents of chaos have written it all off and went elsewhere thinking a job well done as we beat a big bad. The runes are all connected. All the art is usually done intentionally, so it all adds up. Question is will it come full circle or get dropped by the writers?
And to add, Metzen confirmed that the Titan's return to Azeroth in The Last Titan, and they land in Ulduar. This just so happens to be the closest titan facility to Ice Crown where the Forge of Souls is.
100%, blizz were going in that direction, but likely ran out of time. I don't think they intended on his face not being shown in that scene for what we eventually got, but it ended up like that due to that particular scene likely originally planned to have been part of an earlier portion of the main quest chain, giving us more context early on during the expansion, but they changed up the story late because of time constraints and re-used (re-purposed more like) it for the final scene. Another hint at that was the 2nd to last cut scene where we see the soul forge clip being rendered differently to the rest of that cut scene...yet another clip that was probably originally intended to be used must earlier on in the expansion but clipped and mushed together for the pin-ultimate scene leading into the boss fight
Because the end ing cinematic was probably not supposed to be the "ending" cinematic. It was probably repurposed from an earlier cinematic, in a patch where we don't know that the primus is the prisoned dude helping us.
@@keithb6344 even if they rushed the story they left it open cause most ppl think we killed the jailer w/o questioning the vessel that was left behind and if the arbitor is being controlled now it would be very wierd if that goes unnoticed
@@xXLucromXxI wouldn’t mind them revisiting this stuff if it’s handled better and if we don’t have to go into their realm again. Lore issues aside, I hated going into the afterlife though sire Denathrius stuff was dope
Denathrius is definitely working WITH primus though, therfore the titans as well. That is why he without even being dominated worked with zovaal, he knew primus was the one controlling zovaal. Zovaal most likely did not want to join the primus and denathrius, so they somehow framed him as a betrayer. That is why in the clip of the flashbacks that zovaal had, denathrius said "you could have sought another way brother. Imagine what we could have accomplished together"
There was a leak 1 or 2 years ago on 4chan from a « former dev » that was talking about what was supposed to be shadowland story line, Andiun revealed to be arthas’s son, the capital was supposed to be tazavesh, drust and bwonsamdi were a huge threat, etc…And zovaal was in fact the jailer but the jailer was a different thing, just a jailer keeping the souls of the bad guy, and the big baddies were denathrius and the primus.But the development turn into a shitshow cuz of all the problems that blizzard got into at that time. I think bellular made a video of it if you want to check I oute
my ideal scenario is that the shadowlands, the eternal ones and zereth mortis are made/ordered by the titans, who are called the first ones in the shadowlands thats why the eternal ones are these weird robots, similar to titan keepers through whatever means, zovaal realized or was made to turn against the order of the titans, similar to sargeras the shadowlands are like a microcosm of what the titans did to the cosmos as a whole
What still confuses me when we did Revendreth questline in Shadowlands, it was clear that Denathrius was with Zovaal but then what we saw in the flashback during the final moments of Zovaal it was indicated as if Denathrius was against him there. Did he change his mind over the years or did he got dominated?
Primus sitting down there “chained up “ for the same reason Jigsaw was laying there pretending to be dead in SAW. Want to have front row seats to watch what you set in motion.
What is up with the hole in zovaal's chest though? If you notice in the clip of his flashbacks he does not have it before he was punished and marked with domination runes, but then after he has the hole in his chest for that orb that the arbitor uses? Did the primus add that as well so he could open the way for him to get into the sepulcher?
IMO that was the original idea for the expansion that was scrapped. Just like sargeras is shown to have jailer style armor in the 7.3 cinematic. The sword was probably gonna be used somehow.
Or there's the whole Sargeras was the good guy and wasn't trying to kill azeroth. He was trying to free her from prison when he stabbed his sword into it. I'm partial to that one. Mainly because we need an Illidan/Sargeras team up. The ultimate redemption arc. The game is always better when Illidan is around.
What will really bake your noodle is when you look back at the plot of Wrath of the Lich King and how we were working for the lich king all the way through the questing zones.
There was supposed to be a 2nd raid before sanctum in the Nightfae Zone where we fought Anduin Wrynn, but because of content cuts he got pushed to the last raid. Zovaal would’ve been in the Anduin slot, and the Primus in the Zovaal slot? Would kinda line up the story better. Instead of finishing the plot twist and actually making Shadowlands GOOD, they just punted everything and hit the GTFO button.
at Zovaal's last cutscene, when they captured him, there are no runes on him. So maybe Primus actually killed Zovaal and put a puppet that he made into the Maw.
Titans used Primus's chains of domination magic to imprison Old Gods , Titans involuntary created the Void by creating the "false" Light (artificial one , the one they can control)
I believe I remember a warbringer cinematic of Guldan talking to Sargeras and Sargeras saying “everyone has a master, even me”. Maybe he was talking about Aman’thul
I mean, the primus’s covenant has skulls all over the place and a very nasty aesthetic with puss pools and rot. It reminds me of the “are we the baddies?” skit.
"Teach them nothing of the First Ones." - Odin This line hints that they could have teamed up with the Primus. Cause they wanted to cover up whats going on in the back(Shadowlands).
What if the actual Warcraft universe is supposed to have a reincarnation system, but the titans created the shadowlands to imprison mortal souls from returning to the living world as their idea of “order”. What if Zovaal’s line “a cosmos divided will not survive what is to come” is not a reference to the living world divided by light, void, fel or whatever factions fighting each other, but simply the living and the dead being divided? And he was simply trying to destroy the shadowlands by blasting it with Azeroth’s creation power and thus freeing all the souls so they can eventually be reincarnated or go to the true afterlife.
1.Remember the titan artifact that Deathwing was using to control those drakthyr. Primus and Amanthul work together and shared the time and domination knowledge. 2. It could be that Sargeras broke free from the domination just like Anduin did and that's why he was being vengeful on them. 3. Remember the final cinematic of Zuval. He was already imprisoned without having the runes. So the reason for inventing domination was not imprisoning Zuval just like it was said in the game. 4. Domination magic by itself is evil. The one who invents it is definitely having evil intentions.
Yes, the story of Shadowlands would make much more sense if the Primus was the one behind it. Even the lackluster portrail of Zovaal would make more sense if he himself turned out to be a puppet. I said it back then and I say it again. "You don't put much time and effort into a villain if you KNOW he is only a tool, that was never meant to become a big threat/thing in the story." Now the question is, did Blizzard drop the ball on this story, or will the Primus reveal himself at some point? I fear that we will never see this story in WoW. Even the end cinematic hinted at the Primus having a secret. We see all the eternal ones as they speak to Zovaal, but when the Primus speaks, we only see his shadow...
How about: "We live in a total simulation, without players, where it's creator's endlessly test how strange and gigabrained MMO lore can become until npcs become self-aware (so they can use that knowledge for better future simulations"
I wanted to highlight this too! @Pyromancer I'm not sure if your source told you but Discordian Kitty here wrote this entire theory on WoWhead quite a while ago, before the end of Shadowlands. Might be a good idea to chat with her about lore too!
Ok so within this theory where do the Dreadlords and Denathrius stand? In the final cutscene flashback to Zovaal first getting imprisoned; Denathrius says "You could have sought another way, brother. Imagine what we could have accomplished, together". Throughout the SL leveling and first raid tier Denathrius is shown to have been allied with Zovaal even after pretending to side against him when they first imprisoned him. Denathrius is the one who allows The Maw to expand far enough out to put it in range of Korthia, which is where the Primus had hidden his final memory and his sigil. Korthia was also where Fatescribe Roh-Kalo was hiding. Roh-Kalo was somehow involved in Zovaal being able to access Zereth Mortis if im not mistaken. The Dreadlords continue to serve Denathrius, including rescuing him from the Maw Walkers and their allies and serving Zovaal in Zereth Mortis/Sepulcher. They tricked the Legion to give them access to Argus' World Soul which they used to help Zovaal. Were they all under the Primus' influence as well? Or were they just unwitting chess pieces in his game? What about all of Zovaal's other allies? The Forsworn? The House of Rituals? The Drust? Mueh'zala? Helya? Sylvanas? What about the Brokers? How much did they know? What of Venari? Is the Primus on the same level as Aman'thul? Or is he also being used? Did Iridikron find out about all of this? Xal'atath? What about the Old Gods and the Black Empire? Elune? Why would Light be helping Order take over everything? Zovaal mentions the enemy of all and needing to stand united. Is that not what Order would be doing? Is Zovaal even really misalligned with the Primus? Or was he just a puppet that the Primus was willing to throw away? Or is Order itself the enemy of all? Why did the Pantheon allow themselves to be killed, captured and tortured by Sargaras? Was Sargaras not in favor of this plan either? What is Life's involvement? Elune? The Winter Queen? Eonar? Surely they aren't helping Order do this since Order has been shown to be rather hostile to Life and enforcing itself onto it. Was Zereth Mortis apart of the Ordered Death design? Did the Titans create it and the other Zereths in a distinctly different style to their regular Titan designs to cover up their own involvement? Are the First Ones just the Titans hiding their own secrets? This theory would answer a lot of questions but would also pose exponentially more questions itself.
I'm new to your vids and just mind blown by all of this. Amazing stuff! A lot of Shadowlands I never put much thought or notice into because of the rough storytelling. This however is truly gigabrain. A not obvious cliche/twist villain is a welcome one.
Hey, just wanted to point out the meaning of the names in WoW: Primus = the First One (Latin) Aman'Thul= either Safety/Peaceful/Wonder or per Google Translate: Shadow Safety/A Shadow of Safety (Arabic).
Before the release of Shadowlands, there was a prevailing meme in the community about Zovaal being portrayed as an infallible mastermind with a supposed intellect of 10,000 IQ, orchestrating every event in the past leading up to this expansion. Many criticized this idea as bad writing, as it appeared to retcon established lore. However, with the introduction of the theory that Zovaal was being controlled by Primus, this adds another layer of complexity to the narrative, seemingly continuing the initial concerns of the Zovaal arc. Instead of Zovaal being the gigabrain now its Primus being the gigabrain. I do not see how this new Primus theory fixes the initial concerns of the writing given that it does exactly what it criticized - adds a new puppeteer to the seemingly long chain of connected events.
I have two thoughts: Why did Primus dominate Zooval? Zooval allegadly committed unforgivable crimes, for which he was supposed to be tormented for eternity like any usual evil soul. He would be imprisoned by the very inescapable nature of the Maw. So why dominate him? In fact, if the torment of the Maw was the purpose behind his punishment... wouldn't domination go against this? They wanted him to experience 100% of his punishment, to make him suffer and drown in his supposed guilt. So why dominate him and take his agency and self control for him? That could reduce or nullify the severity of his punishment. Also, it's not like Primus always had Domination magic and decided to use it in this case. We are explicitly told that Primus created Domination magic for this purpose of dominating his brother. That is suspect. The other though is that if Primus was really behind this, why would he allow himself to be captured? So many things could go wrong, and he would never get free again. But I think the answer is that he never really risked anything. Zooval was supposedly dominated. So Zooval would not do anything Primus didn't want. And Primus's broken "Runecarver" state was very likely an illusion. I think he was never the Runecarver and he was never really imprisoned or dominated. He just presented this illusion to sell this story to us. Why do I think so? In the story, after you "free" the Primus, there is a gameplay problem - if the player progressed this far in the story, how will he craft his Legendaries when the Runecarver is no longer there? Well, I thought that's easy. Since the player has already progressed to this point, he has access to Korthia, and after he turns in the quest after freeing the Primus, the Primus conveniently stands in player base in Korthia. And it was the Primus who is the legendary crafter of this gear. So make Primus be the NPC you go to craft your Legendaries from now on. But no. Instead, Primus waves his hand and creates a literal illusion of his former broken self, the Runecarver... and let's it being chained in the original location in Thorgast. That's... Why? Even if you say it's purely for the gameplay reasons, because the players who never read the quest text and skip all cutscenes would never find the NPC to create Legendaries... It still means that Primus is capable of creating an illusion of himself in the Runecarver state chained in Thorgast.
Right, the same way we all thought N'zoth would make this HUGE play, with the return of the black empire and the return of C'thun etc. hinted at over a decade. And then we kame-hame-ha'd him in a single patch.
Yes finally. I thought all of this while i was playing shadowlands but the communitiy was so anti-everything, that i ignored my own thoughts about it. Everyone was like "lazy story telling the primus hides is sigil and deletes his memory about it and all we do is bring it to him" yeah, he is dominating us without runes and magic. He simply tricks us in working willingly for him in the believe we're doing all of this for a good thing. The masterplan is to let others do the shit for you and let them believe they're the heroes and let everyone who wants to show them the truth look like an evil fool. I'm not through the whole video but i must share this now: Variant1: The Titans lose Sargeras, because some void being showed him the Legion and other dangers and who became the master of the chaotic power of the burning legion. The Titans then also lost the one who can use domination magic, so they work with someone else - the Primus. Variant2: Sargeras is like Zovaal, a puppet controlled by a puppeteer to controll something else to controll indirectly someone third. Let's say it's the Primus in both scenarios. The Primus controls Zovaal/Sargeras. Both take control over a mighty force maw/anima/legion/fel and act like a straw-man for the Primus. Everyone thinks the straw-man Zovaal/Sargeras is the master. These straw-man-puppets take over their cosmic plane to attack worlds and gain in power. But they are provoking an opponent force in the result of a joined army of defenders. Even if the straw-man-puppet gets defeated, the Primus now knows the full potential of the force that works against him - us. But he can use the straw-man to point us somewhere he wants us to be. This is a stretch analogy/metaphor but here me out: In Maldraxxus we get the pet of Jiggles the dead cat and also a toy for it that works like a red/blue point laser. You point somewhere and Jiggles will attack it thinking it's a mouse because of it's instincts. This is exactly what the Primus is doing with us. The laserpointer is the straw-man-puppet and we are the cat. With the actions of Zovaal/Sargeras he can control us without doing anything directly towards us. We think we're the good guys, have free will and so on. The mastery of domination is not controlling the puppet but controlling the audience in front of the puppet.
This theory is as old as shadowlands themselves. I and many others said this since the launch of shadowlands that the primus is the big bad guy, but also that there has been other maw walkers before us and that thorgasts true purpose, just like ice crown citadel is yet not known.
The first ones are the progenitors of order. Order won. Every place has a Zerith, a construct of Order. The shadowland is a machine ordering Death. I believe The Titans need Azeroths power to complete their domination and order the remaining powers.
the first ones don't like domination magic and could be the reason Primus had to unmantle his domination gear. Then he made the plan to dominate zovaal as runecarver.
The strongest evidence lies when you defeat Zovaal, all the others speak from their point of view of who is really peering through the eyes behind Zovaal. Then when we beat him it transitions into completing his sentence when he had last spoke, literally being the moment when the Primus first started controlling him. I believe he saw who the Primus allied himself to, not knowing of his brothers involvement just yet, and was becoming a threat. The opportunity presented himself when the Primus started to find a way to silence him and therefor hatching the plan to use him as a puppet to advance his own goals withtout outting himself.
How many more times will the Adventurers of Azeroth be played like this until we realize that everything we did might be (or is) for the wrong party? This is baffling and it's like we are just puppets in a game THAT WE ARE UNKNOWINGLY PLAYING. And not just us, everyone else is too regardless of good or evil Arthas was used, Ner'Zhul was used, Gul'dan was used Khadgar, Sylvanas, Velen, Illidan, Malfurion, the Aspects, The Night elves, Turalyon, and a whole host of other powerful beings
Pyromancer you look good man I think peak pyromacer is coming up soon! Youre building up again! We need you to share your wow knowledge with us and guide us down the road. We were once lost little souls but now we are found. When the war within gets here I see you with a tattered hood and black coat with a simple sword, showing us the way
Yea I came up with this years ago though the idea about the crown I did not catch, that's a good one. I was literally saying it for years that the only way this story make sense is if the primus is the big bad. I mean come on, he is the source of the domination magic... come on...
Where you loose me is when you say the Primus works for the titans. In my understanding, the titans are subordinates to the plan of the first ones. Agents like the Primus or the winter queen are at the very least on par with the titans in terms of hierarchy or power. They are both agents of order, as the zereth realms are mechanisms to instigate order in the the different dimensions of the cosmos. I believe the titans are agents of order in the dimension of reality.
You have an interesting theory but I doubt it's going to lead to anything. With the reception shadowlands story got its unlikely characters from that xpac will get much more than small nods in future stories.
What if the world trees are ways to siphon power form azeroth into the emerald dream, similarly to the forge of souls, and somewhere within the dream there is another machine of origination that will be reused to reset all of reality into their perfect little emerald dream. I think that makes sense given what we know, possibly crazy post idk lol
This will get complicated for a minute but hear me out. What if the Titans offer things to those who help them. Eonar gets her control over life and her biosphere called Azeroth. Sargaras gets his Legion army and home base but get’s sick of the titans gaslighting shit and rebels. Primus offers his knowledge and forging ability and in returns gets the realm of death as his own personal playground to fuck with people which they stole from someone else they exiled Argus the former “Titan of Death”. The Titans order things and then divvy up the goods to their loyalists. They are straight up colonizers and dictators. I 100% would not be surprised if Denathrius and his dreadlords are buddies with them as the Titans seem to love manipulating the hell out of everything. All of these “generals” and “friends” help cover up all the fucked up stuff the Titans have done and help them “order” whatever they want and return they get power. You could even argue the entire point of Zovaal the puppet of the Primus was to get Silvanas to become a general (to gain full control of the horde) in her trauma warped lust for survival and power (possibly even causing the death of vol’jin) but she was too chaotic. Anduin as a general manipulated with his free thinking and empathy to lead the army of the light and when it failed they dominated him, tried with Illidan (failed), now Turalyon sits on the throne...
Fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccckkkk. This blew my mind. Maybe Shadowlands wasn't the crappiest expansion and most garbage lore, but so galaxy brain that it took us years to decipher? FFFFUUUUUUUUUKKKK. I LOVE THIS.
This is kinda of a prime example of how wow has been treated through its entirety. They have some crazy wild ideas for world building and are incredible at developing backstories, but god DAMN they are bad at actually delivering with their stories and are incredibly bad at writing an actual story.
Man, I wish I could believe this. It would be awesome. But do I have the confidence to believe that Denuser and the writing team can pull off something like this? Not really. I think the answer on the question why early artwork looks like the Primus, is that they had the plan, but changed it last minute to what we got 😕 But Pyro, great Video and great speculation like always :-)
Sargeras, I guess isn't the Mad Titan for nothing by the way this could all play out. Amanthu'l has seemingly done the same to him that The Primas has done to Zovaal, Mkaes alot of sense despite the poor execution on Blizz's part with SL overall.
Order, Death & Light are all examples of rythm & structure. Order & Death pantheons working together makes so much sense. Shadowlands would've been cool if it actually conveyed these theories in meaningful narrative ways.
Oh wait, if the Primus is Zovaal, then the Primus tried to kill off Denathrius indirectly? So he can take over the control over the Nathrezim? To start ordering more Lightdemons? And I always told you guys that Arthas was forced to build ICC as a counter part to Torghast to use the Forge of Souls as a conduit to feed the souls directly to the Maw, ignoring the arbiter
i said this back in shadowlands when i first saw the image of the jailer having been imprisoned locked in the maw and with chains all over him, he cant be the JAILER if hes the one that has been JAILED
So...what's going to happen to Illidan and Sargeras since they're with the titans? Wouldn't be surprised if Illidan came back dominated and Sargeras doubly so. Good lord...
tbh I thought Primus was secretly evil during my first run through Shadowlands, something seemed off about how Zovaal was treated as the big bad, haven't gone too far into this part of lore - but Zovaal was given a role regarding death and I think they did their job till someone above no longer saw him as an asset but a liability. And they discarded him, chained him and they seemed like they wanted control over all - pure domination. And Zovaal seemed more like he knew some truth and knew the role set for him was an excuse for those above to seize power. Glad someone thinks along the same sort of ideas I had when playing, may it be pure speculation or otherwise.
Honestly the fact they call him the jailer when he was the jailer is what instantly made no sense to me. Until we come along, the shadowlands is convinced zovaal is chained forever. Them calling him a jailer makes no sense what so ever. But that sums a lot of shadowlands.
I wonder how much of the story of Sargarus is actually true... We heard the entire story from the Titan perspective. I wonder about that rune on his armor, perhaps he was too powerful for Amanthul to dominate and that this is what made him turn on the Titans. Was Sargarus ever really a titan, it seems odd that a pantheon of order would arrive at 2 war gods when there are so few domains covered. The new crown of domination has something very special about it. It was influenced by "those who overcame domination" and it's based on light, it's like it's purpose built to take down Sargarus....
@@laertesindeed it's not really a matter of false blame this is pure speculation, however the narrative of domination fits too well with the titans to be any other cosmic order involved. I could see an infinite dragon also being involved but I don't think the light or void would let the Primus rework the same battle over and over again it just mesh with how they operate, it's a very order centric way of viewing time. Now I could see something a bit different happening with Sargarus though, it might be that because chaos is...well choas it may not actually have a leadership group as hierarchy and chaos don't typically mix so in a sense Sargeras becoming a the top chaos being would make him the missing group. However having said that perhaps he is like the video pyro says is intentional and Sargeras is basically an attempt to order choas, we have an actor of order ordering the legion and now a being of order in charge of the shadow lands that's 3 domains with an order connection now so who knows. I love this theory crafting speculation it's so fun
@@laertesindeed did you not watch the video? I'm not accusing Amanthul of anything I'm just giving my thoughts on what pyro was discussing in this video and a few past videos involving the Titan Conspiracy. Pyro put forward the idea that Domination magic is the logical or possibly pathological highest form of order which I think makes sense to me. He mentions the story of how the the Primus learned the art of war by rewatching and modifying the same battle over and over, the light tends to see only the "one true timeline" and rejects all alternatives so they are confident their decisions will naturally lead them to that future so they wouldn't be the to change the timeline. The void see's all possibilities and seem to be more curious which one will be right rather than trying to choose one. The infinite dragon flight seem fixated on manipulating time to serve their goals which seems like something order would attempt to do which if you believe the Titan Conspiracy that would probably be Amanthul's motivation as well, to pick the most ordered timeline. This is early speculation, when I speculate I like to run different scenarios through my mind if I were looking for a cookie thief I might speculate why it was grandma, then maybe grandpa, then little brother etc etc. I wouldn't instantly accuse grandma of being the cookie thief unless after mulling over all the other suspects and determining she's the most likely culprit. I'm not at the stage of speculation where I'd accuse Amanthul of doing anything but it's nearly one line of thought, but pyros arguments are very persuasive and I'm definitely thinking Amanthul and the titans are suspicious
@@laertesindeed why are you taking this so personally? I'm not trying to convict Amanthul of a crime here I'm just having fun speculating on the ideas Pyro brings up in the video. I'm not trying to prove beyond a reasonable doubt this is true so there is no need to provide exhaustive evidence speculate. If I were disagreeing materially with pyro that would be a different story but for the sake of discussion. This is really more like hypothesis generation than anything, you don't need absolute proof to put forward a hypothesis, you just have to put forth an idea and then test it to see if it works or not.
@@laertesindeed I don't have 0 evidence the evidence is what was presented in this video we are commenting on. Why do I need to lay out the points pyro already made in the video we and anyone else who would be commenting here has most likely watched. My "behavior" is simply asking questions based on what was said in this video. Pyro mentioned the idea/asked the question maybe Amanthul used domination magic on Sargeras and made him join the legion based on a rune present on his armor, I thought to myself maybe he did but it seems weird/counter productive Amanthul would use Sargeras to murder himself and the rest of the pantheon so may. Maybe he knew they would be revived thousands of years later and was playing 5d chess to put a titan in charge of chaos and the only thing Sargeras could possibly prove he was in their side is to kill the titans but it seems more likely to me that IF domination magic was involved that it failed and that anger Sargeras enough to push him to killing the titans to stop them from controlling the cosmos
*This was already speculated during shadowlands.* *they ran out of time to fully flush it out* *perhaps the story will return in “The Last Titan”* *Either way, this is the truth and nothing will convince me otherwise*
Primus looked the most badass in the sense of what your theory is. But yeah the story was bit flat. Zhovaal was literally a puppet. 10 mins in and l hear story parts I haven't heard before, so in that sense we could see a clean up for the shadowlands one year. All of this could have been easy "rts" plot, but has been a pot for people that get into rpg and pondering about stories for ages. I'm sure there's people who might still see the game and the writing to be fit through the 'rts' sense of storytelling.
Ive been saying this since shadowlands the crown of light will bring only darkness :P we made a gold crown and put it on the judge of the dead and everyone just disregarded that
I mean, this theory has already been discussed at large on wowhead and other places. Why are the comments pretending that their ideas are original and not outright stolen from the wowhead article
I do believe something like that was the original plan, but given how much content they've been cutting towards each expansion's ending, I doubt any of this is still being carried over, specially given how much people hated the whole "Jailer was behind everything", which this would be basically a repeat of that no matter how well delivered.
One thing I am well aware of with blizzard is that don't attribute anything being giga-brain where it could simply be coincidence or artistic choice. You give them WAY too much credit.
The thing is by the time Shadowlands came out we had people on the writing team like Pyro, who made a living/hobby out of pulling all these disparate bits of information together to create wild theories. One of them predicted Azeroth being a titan long before Legion/Chronicle confirmed it.
It says in the Shadowlands intro, during the cutscene where you're meeting the Arbiter, that the Shadlowlands worked "-in perfect order". However, I don't think the Shadowlands are natural at all. With the "Precursors" coming and creating things, setting up the Shadowlands, I think it's an Ordered creation meant to harvest Anima off of Azeroth, fueling the constructs and generating power for the Titan facilities. Basically using soul energy to ensure their own victory.
