@@kxmapperIf Russia is furious on they're old allies (Prussia and Austria), those two would want a buffor state to not start a war they're don't want, so because they're don't lost to much it's posible that weak Polish state would be in hold of Austrians and Prussians to prevent war in the east. Altrought, there gonna be more Napoleonic wars, when his family seize rule over France and start war with new states, Netherlands and Germany. What can paradoxically make France bigger in our times.
>Russia receiving barely nothing despite being on the winning side >Independent Brittany and Catalonia >Big Poland >Abolishing the Papal States Truly the most Reddit timeline possible.
And Prussia not getting shit, there you can see the 40% more average left wing mentality among redditors which probably spammed this video in their subreddits, circlejerking.
Czar: "What do you mean we gained NOTHING!?" Ambassador: "The RU-vid congregation was very persuasive." Czar: "I am not falling this! Our people died for Poland." Ambassador: "But m'lord: Markiplier." Czar: "Sigh, I guess I do have to obey Markiplier. He does... something on RU-vid."
@@Leo-ok3uj I know, but the other way would have required me to figure out what Markiplier actually does besides not smash Game Theory's Pokémon designs.
I don't see France being angry. It felt its loss deeply by the occupation of half of the country and the economic collapse. The restored Bourbons would see themselves overly lucky they even got a whole France to rule over, not to talk about how France would be Europe's suspect from then on and in no position to make pretentions. All I see is an incredibly successful repelling of Russia and France at the cost of acceptable concessions to Prussia, from the Austro-British perspective.
Russia and Spain were the two places were Napoleon lost yet they lose territory, as well as a massive reduction of France. I think the Vienna treaty's real accomplishment of a long peace will not occure in this timeline.
Well Spain kind of deserved it since before napoleon betrayed them they were staunch allies of napoleon. Russia were allies in the fourth coalition war but enemies both before and after that.
@@mappingshaman5280 I don't have the same opinion as you. Every country was once allied to Napoleon in one way por another except for Portugal and the British. The fact that Napoleon's invasion of Spain contributed to his demise is indeniable, regardless of their status before the invasion. So at least some compensation was deserved, specially after taking into account that the British (their own allies) destroyed the little industry Spain had at that moment while helping them against the french.
I think Spain got it even worse as they lost lands who were part of it since the Catholic Kings, or before if we consider Aragon to be a sort of proto-Spain.
The MOMENT your audience voted to restore a full Poland-Lithuania i immediately became solid on the fact that anyone subscribed to this channel should NOT be allowed to be in a state apparatus of any country at any time
This absolutley could be the case but only if Poland was put in some sort of personal union under russia kinda like in our time line, and Austria gave up Galicia, because than, although techically loosing land they still control it under their Polish perosnal union and even gained land from Prussia and Austria. That would either lead to Poland more loyal to Russia than in our timeline, since the matter of eastern occupided provinces was a big talking point or if the uprising still happens be a total disaster for Russia later on.
I think this is mainly due to the affinity to Poland-Lithuania in althist circles. I just went for repatriation of Poland. The worst i did was giving Brittany, Normandy and Hanover to the British.
@@MarylandbronyI think it's much more connected with the wave of anti-russian sentiment in the west after the war in Ukraine. It's reasonable but some what annoying when influencing things in such a anachronistic manner.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Germany gets Austria and the Sudetenland, it ends larger than it started, that alone makes it disgustingly worse. It has turbo Hungary.
Oh come on, it’s just in good fun, nobody thinks this would be a lasting and stable, let alone realistic peace deal. It’s just fun to see what a “democratic” peace deal would look like.
Even as Pole i think the more historically acurate would be russia keeps polish-lithuanian land before third partision of poland but instead austria gives galicia to poland to create a buffer state between them and russia
Lol, nope, Austria would never decrease its land to make a buffer, and you want Austria to do it against friendly Russia? Go to school some time. You profoundly need it if you think being Polish grants you credibility.
@@genovayork2468 actually you should go to School because, IT was one of Austrian propositions during congress of Vienna to create neutral Poland that couldnt declare war on anyone but would serve as buffer state like switzerland and yes they were willing to give Galicia to Poland if this idea would be approved but russians wanted full Control
@@genovayork2468 you quickly went from austria would never to maybe if Russia, just cause you did no research if Russia allowed for Warsaw to remain Polish Austria would've given galicia for a buffer
@@ambiguousdrink4067He is talking about the people is PH's audience who made this disgusting treaty, that, unlike said monarchies whoch brought an era of peace to Europe, the audience made the horrible treaty.
Prussia might not invade Poland,as those lands didn't have too much german population,but Russia certainly would, because they would be furious with the loss of Poland.
"I let the viewers pull as many Jenga pieces out of the tower as they like, and then I'll release a video next week talking about how unstable the tower is, and describing its collapse!"
Why does France no longer exist? You may have noticed recently when looking at a map that France appears to have been swallowed up by the ocean. But how did this happen?
When you hate the Hero of the Revolution, but the Russo-Ukrainian War more than 200 years later means the Russians must be punished here: Is this what Reddit Renaissance enthusiast are usually like?
I think a lot of them are just napoleon simps and therefore being anti russia of this time makes sense. They only hurt france because of the obsession with Catalonia and of course this is Dutch youtuber so Netherlands gets stuff.
@@dragon55017 What really sold it was the deference to ethnic unity with many of the divisions made. The French parts of France were kept by France, among other things, but almost every single instance where a state had control over an area that was not ethnically the same as the hegemon that controlled it, the state became independent or joined are large group of the same ethnicity. It reminds of things like "Free Palestine" and "Free Tibet" being supported in Western countries, with independence from a different group argued as a principle in and of itself, though there are other reasons to support those movements. Its literally the argument the Nazis made for annexing Austria and the Sudetenland. I wonder if they are trying to accelerate the rise of ethnonationalism. Maybe not, as while alternate history can be pretty Alt-Right, this guy likely presents enough hints of being somewhat liberal that it would deter those elements.
@@lljkgktudjlrsmygilug You're the prime example of seeing what you want to see. Brittany was majoritarily French, Slesvig - Danish, Liège, Namur, Artois, Cambray, most of Luxembourg and French Hainaut were French; Iceland, Greenland and the Færoes spoke neither Norwegian nor Swedish, Hanover was kept under British PU, Norway remained in PU and this Poland has twice to thrice more non-Polish land than Polish. Meanwhile Provence, Avignon, Franche-Comté and Alsace were kept fully by France, Brescia, Bergamo, Istria and Dalmatia by Venice, Ragusa independent. There are literally, hilariously and ironically more examples that contradict your point than ones that support it. And moreover, even if they'd made it fully ethnical (which would've been impossible, further discrediting you), correlating the whole audience with Nazism is... something by which I question your intelligence.
@@genovayork2468 Two things. 1: You're right about the ethnicities part, and I will cope that I said something stupid because it was midnight. I also thought that a lot of those places leaned towards one ethnicity over the other, so that is a mistake of my own knowledge. An example would be Brittany, where jumped a few steps and assumed they must not have been properly French because they resisted the revolution. This likely drawing from ethnic separatism often occurring in societies with a major political realignment where a different central authority might take away the rights/privileges of a group, like in South Africa with the White population. I also thought the general French perspective towards Brittany was, to a lesser extent, similar to Algeria to late 20th century France, not as extreme though. Do note that I believe that much of the audience that voted to screw over Russia as a prime directive, over-riding the ethnic claim I made. That is my actual belief, and I should have stated it. 2: For the Nazi bit, I don't think that all people who are Alt-Right are Nazis. I also don't think that the majority of the audience of these videos are either Alt-Right or Nazis, with them usually being no more than a third in the highest prevalence. Any attempt to determine how prevalent a group is obscured by a bunch of different factors, and that is the vibe I get. Mock me as much as you want for using "vibe". I'm Australian, so its part of my heritage. I've been in quite a few alt-hist communities, though mostly viewing rather than commenting, for quite a few years, from RU-vid to Reddit and stretching from figures like WhatifAltHist and Mr Z to content creators who cover alt-hist who I'm pretty sure are progressive socialists. You will notice quite the overlap of people who are into alternate history and people who are Alt-Right, at least when it comes to those who are vocal and frequently comment. I don't blame the heads of these communities for actively fostering communities where these people frequent. Its just a matter of fact these communities attract the Alt-Right by virtue of their subject matter, like fitness videos. With that said, a content creator that is ambivalent to and especially those that actively supports logic that is amenable to far right politics leaves the doors wide open for them to flood in. On the inverse, those that actively use logic that is left-wing and those that actively make fun of right-wing logic (Such as PH in his parody of WhatifAltHist) have very few Alt Right fans. I've been on the WhatifAltHist subreddit lately and that place is filled to the brim with people who would get heavily downvoted in r/PCM for being too Far Right. Much of what many people in the sub say, with a high amount of upvotes, sounds identical in language and logic to stuff I have heard in actual self-proclaimed Far Right communities where people freely say what variant of fascism they are. I'm currently studying the rise of fascism, specifically Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy (more towards Italy) and what many in that sub say also aligns with actual fascist regimes, not just those in the modern day that ascribe themselves that title. If I wasn't clear with that typed vomit I gave you, I don't think the audience of PH is Alt-Right or Nazis, and I think that the percentage of his audience that is fascist is very low. Of note, the first comment about the voters hating the Hero of the Revolution was a joke, especially since the question was likely interpreted by many to be a roleplay. I don't think the average viewer or voter in the poll of this channel would prefer absolute illiberal monarchy other the liberal absolutist state of Napoleon. I still stand by my claim about Russia though, and that the voters placed their own feelings about modern Russia into the making of this new Congress.
Interesting video! You should let RU-vidrs to roleplay as a nation and rewrite the Congress of Vienna. Would be a very interesting idea, just a suggestion!
Yeah, I can see Russia going all Spartan on Europe and telling them to come and take it. How many victorious nations would willingly agree to surrender any of their territory in a peace treaty.
This timeline was probably one where the Napoleonic Wars lasted several decades longer, causing the nation-state promoters to gain even more presence in the war-weary parliaments and courts of Europe.
@@charliekahn4205 Ones who will be most angly is people of Russia. They literally carry this war and sacrifice much, both nobles and commoners, and at this point Russia was at peak patriotism, close to the lvl of WW2. And imagine people reaction to this weat fart of congress.
In my opinion there is one major flaw with this treaty They pissed off BOTH major problems, France and Russia In my opinion for this to not immediately break down they should have given Russia everything they wanted to placate them so France is diplomatically isolated in their frustrations, at the very least they should have allowed the previous partition so the eastern flank is secured by two major powers I actually think bolstering the Netherlands power further wasn't a bad idea for creating a buffer too, assuming belgium doesn't immediately break free and enlarged in this timeline Edit: In all honesty I think good sense would have won out were it not for modern russia, it has colored peoples perceptions more negatively but that actually does expose something interesting Can you imagine how much perceptions at the time were colored by so many years of war? Its astonishing the century of peace that followed and the leniency on the french in light of it
Ultimately, I feel the lenient peace treaty for France IRL *was* the harshest punishment on their true enemy: Revolutionary Republicanism. They didn't want to leave a mutilated and embarrassed kingdom and get a second wave of Liberal Revolts through Europe (and then they got them anyway).
A summary of the viewers' decisions: -Russophobia -Francophobia -Catalonia and Brittany independent -Possible History checks their analytics and finds a majority of their viewers are Dutch -Slightly bigger-than-historical Prussia -Possible History checks their analytics and finds a majority of their viewers are also Swedish -Significantly more German Austria -The Viewers embrace their inner Redditors and get rid of the Papal States -The Ottomans stay perfectly still, and are therefore almost entirely ignored
thought the borders were much worse.Personally I voted for the strangest things proposed,for example in my scenario Nice was a French exclave inside Sardinian Provence and the Pope would take Emilia but lose Marche and Romagna
> Be me, spanish > See independent Catalonia > Massive kek > Russia gains nothing > Second massive kek > Harsher punishment to France > Lol xd > Abolishment of the Papal States > Truly Reddit map > Only changes outside of Europe are South Africa and Ceylon returning to the Netherlands > At least something good
if you could’ve made a video about this, you could’ve gotten much more participants. I’m a subscriber with notifications on, and i still never saw the google form
You can still have an era of goodwill if the thrones of Finland & Poland are given to the House of Romanov instead of being absorbed into the Russian Empire.
@@Leo-ok3uj What are you talking about lol? 1. Alexander maintained Polish independence all his reign. It was abolished 6 years after his death by Nikolai I. 2. Alexander not being its king means they are not in PU, but just with the same dynasty.
@@genovayork2468 1- Alexander spended his whole reign as king of poland removing every bit of autonomy, the reason his son was able to abolish it was because of everything Alexander did 2- The original comment never talked about a personal union, only about having the same dynasty in it
Prussia being given literally anything (especially Schleswig-Holstein) triggers me so hard. At least there is hope of extremely angry Russia burning it to the ground for their betrayal
@@genovayork2468 If it will be it sure won't happen over the Denmark annexed lands. Part of the reason Austria went to war with Germany was because Schleswig-Holsten was supposed to be administered by both Austria and Prussia, which in turn triggered Austria's wrath in response to Prussia locking them out of the North German Custom's union. Also chill man.
Things we can deduce from this video: 1) there are lots of Kaiserboos in your viewership 2) your viewership hates Britain, France and Russia (probably related to point 1).
Welp, was to be expected, give them the same votes in 2 to 5 years, they wouldn't have gone to these conclusions. People now think through emotions and mostly "fear" No logics allowed, which is a shame, but explain the current state the world's in right now.
France and Russia will be a lot more closer this time around. In our history, it was Prussia and Russia who sought expansion. In this alternate timeline I bet it would be France and Russia instead. Buh-bye to Poland-Lithuania. It won't be missed.
I already really liked this video concept but adding an alt history scenario about it later this week definitely makes it better, would personally love to see more of these in the future
I see a alliance between France Russia and Spain to reclaim their lost territories, with Britian opposing them with either Asutria or Prussia. Or maybe Britian decides to go into more isolationsim after the treaty has been clearly a failure and lets the alliance have its way redeawing Europe as long as they dont go overboard
@@matthiuskoenig3378 It all depends on how the alliances develop, both Austria and Prussia have expanded massively, and the would have to thread carefully if they want to keep their gains
plus if we're resoring poland fully to the pre 1 partition then poland should have Kraków (duchy of warsaw also had it) and Gdańsk but considering it would be an enclave I can understand why it could be a part of prussia
Democracy is a fun thing, this map caused: - Lots of small states in Germany, more than in our timeline at least = easy prey to Austria, Prussia and maybe the UK - Proud bavarians under Habsburg rule = Revolution in mountain region - Great Poland = not only angry Russia, but also Prussia and Austria, leading to a 4th partition - Small Denmark = annexed by Prussia or Sweden - Great Lowlands = in case of a Belgian Revolution they would have more land and maybe put France in the confusion - New italian states = easy prey for Sardinia and austrian resentment I think by the 1890's WW1 already happened in this scenario.
Say hello to Pacte revanchiste (tiny Pax Brittanica reference) with mad Russia and France. Peace for all times ensured! P.S. You probably should've balanced options due to their popularity - maximalist PLC was supported only by 1/3 jf voters, so to keep majority it probablly should've been merged with more patritionist option.
Russia doesnt gain very much and in fact loses territory it had before the war? Imagine if in the Peace Deal following WW2, the soviet Union had to give up Belarus and the US had to release California even though these two carried the allies, one in Europe, one in the pacific, because redditors said so
3 ideas: What if everything went perfect for the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth? (like to see it end at ww1, but hard to predict) What if everything went perfect for the Swedish Empire? This one is a bit more out there, but it's something I'd like to see someone competent's take on, what if Bavaria or some other southern german state united the southern parts of germany.
- Britain would be angry about a powerful Prussia and Austria near to Hannover - France and Russia would be furious for obvious reasons - Prussia would be angry over Polish independence - Poland would be angry over Prussia and Austria occupying parts of its country. - Austria would be angry over the loss of Italy - Spain would be angry over Catalonia Truly peace in our time
Absolutely nothing. All neighbors hate their guts except Austria which is "meh" at best and I'm pretty sure the Russian Tsar could annihilate Poland just by staring at it with a thousand yard "mfw all our patriots died for nothing" stare
Tysm for the Italian peace deals, As an Italian, I appreciate it WE'RE WINNING THE FIRST INDIPENDENCE WAR BOYS Although it probably wouldn't happen, at least not like in our timeline
There really should have been a fourth option for Catalonia; Make it in a personal Union with Spain. Just like the Luxembourg was in a personal Union with the Netherlands.
The fates of Roussillon, Brittany, Provence, Avignon or Normandy have never been under question. What's the point to invent such questions ? I don't get it.
Poland getting rewarded for helping france tear europe apart and then loose. and russia getting punnished for masisvely contributing to French defeat. I get the feeling your audience are weirdly pro-Poland and/or anti-russian.
3:57 Is very interesting because you can really see the outline of modern Germany from the independent states there, and i have to wonder, if that by giving almost all of what was previously Prussia to Poland, and leaving Austria out of Germany, that these are the reasons for the current Germany that we see today in our timeline.
From this video I can see why the treaty of Versailles was an utter failure. It gave the people too much power over the peace talks unlike the congress of Vienna.
in my humble, and completely unbiased opinon, france wasn't punished enough. for the wrongdoings of the french (their existence is enough), i think the powers in vienna should've advocated and ratified a revokal of their recognition of france, and instead recognize the area as the "french sea", a middleman linking the mediterranean and north seas. this way, the european powers wouldn't have to worry about a new possible rise of france, and the UK could confront russia and focus on their ambitions instead of constantly looking over the continent, as they may pass this job to the prussians atleast temporairly without the threat of the french.
And this is why you shouldn’t give people who have no idea how politics work and are too naive, green, civilian minded, too impractical etc. the power to shape the map Oh yeah, may wana this; Also too emotionally oriented
