Great video and sharing of essential knowledge to bow freaks and bow hunters like me. There’s so many “know hows” on the internet, but this is trust worthy. Appreciate it!!
FASCINATING and very well done. Thank you. I have long wondered exactly what benefits a true super-recurve delivers and how it accomplishes the improvement. Now I know. If only I could afford a Covert ILF Ultra 17" riser and CV5-H limbs . . . Please keep up the great work. Chris (Maine, USA)
That was well explained: Excellent presentation on a subject I’d never previously considered, but it all made perfect sense. Plenty of food for thought here. 👏👏👏🏆
Great explanation! Could you do a video sometime discussing the question of matching draw length to limb and riser length? My understanding is that there is something about the nature of the carbon fiber that leads to a narrower window of draw length for any given limb/riser combination.
Love the video as always, just wondering if - like most Olympic Style target setups - there's more rods than an old TV mast stuck to the riser (yep, I'm guilty), does the level of deflex make that much of a difference, I was going to say I haven't noticed that much, then I also realised that my level of archery is not as....okay, my form is pants due to life getting in the way so I've not been able to shoot for three years now😢😂, so frankly, how would I know? 🤔
@@BorderArcheryLTD not a clue. Hoyt marketing and pricing policy put me off their products a long time ago. I'm curious why target archers would choose a CV5 over the CV9. I've got a pair of your HEX 7.5H limbs, and yes I'd be okay going back to standard limbs if I had to, but I would much prefer to stick to your super-recurve limbs. I'm pretty certain that I'll actually prefer the feel of the CV9 limbs over the CV5 limbs (I'd actually quite like a few pounds of let off if I'm honest), but in terms of consistency and accuracy, what's the difference and would reducing the brace height by reducing the amount of deflex in the riser make much difference given the Olympic Recurve stabilisation systems?
Love these types of videos! I have all your stuff from FB saved. This is a way better way to communicate the details of your products. I'm looking forward to more videos. I love my Covert Hunter and Hex 9s and Tempest 25.
I have never seen any of your bows in any 3 D tournament here in the US . I knew about Border archery I just never met anyone who had one to ask on their experience with it, or to just ask to try a few shots with it.
As something of a materials nerd, this was super interesting. I was aware that carbon can be laid up in a certain way that can be project specific for strength/flex, though I only use it for weight savings. I have a couple of sets of carbon limbs and I did wonder why the carbon was laid as it was, and now I know! The Uukha and Nika limbs are a good bit narrower than most other limbs, is it enough to affect the torsional stability like you suggested?
Fascinating info. I have just gotten back into making bows after maybe 15 years. I have made about 85 of various types, self, laminated , all bamboo, long bows ,recurves, now trying Turkish horn bows. Your explanation of limb rigidity and resisting twisting of the tips is so well explained. Cross weave carbon is something I never knew about till watching your videos. Especially interested in the thought of narrower dimensionally stable limbs. The cube rule of stiffness says that a piece of wood, ( or bow limb)? that is 1 wide by 1 thick it has a stiffness of 1. 2 wide by 1 thick, a stiffness of 2. 2 thick by 1 wide a stiffness of 4!! Think Howard Hill style limb as you talked about. Once again, fascinating info. Thank you so much. Much food for thought.
@@russparker1647 lots of bowyers seem to find our info interesting, while it's my opinion that should have a depth of understanding that touches on this.... sorry for my reply. It seems the last 4 or 5 coments on here are from bowyers.
13:32 Actual let-off not clearly explained here. Ok, After watching it 2 more times, I got it, makes sense, since the lever does not get shorter, the fish rod effect does not start until later. But $600.00 to $ 1,000.00 is nowhere near worth it. We all need to wait for the China-made ones.
But you can pay that kind of money for a 40 year old glass limb. Also, don't expect them to be cheap from China. There are some expensive materials in them. There needs to be.
This is the most interesting article I've seen in nearly 40 years of shooting. You are a genius. Q: If I had two pairs of limbs of the same design, one pair 'short' and the other pair 'medium', would the short pair be more torsionally stable and therefore more intrinsically accurate?
Love your question. And this is where one brand claims to have optimised TS.... LOL Since torsional stability is effected by limb thickness in exactly the same way as poundage. And poundage takes precedence. Short limbs are thinner. For any set poundage. Because they are shorter, and thus harder to bend. So they have naturally lower TS. But don't forget, it's optimised... for whom, I don't know!!
Thanks. So a longer limb is a bit thicker, and hence more stable but also slower, all other things being equal? I had previously assumed the thickness was cancelled out by the longer lever arm from the riser.
it's clear, once you have a great technique, if you want to go in competition, the technology can make the difference less vibrations, more linear arrow trajectories, less fatigue are the conditions for a high level performance i recently tried 30# Uukha limbs and it feels like my 26# ordinany foam limbs, but the trajectory is absolutely faster and linear till 50 meters !
@@BorderArcheryLTD I have seen some old bows in 1960's from original American Archery where bows catalog said for a few higher end models Super recurve and how hey achieved more looked like a modern Semi/Mild-Super Recurve in 1960s was brand had used more an older type of fiberglass where it is a woven cloth and a liquid that dries on and becuse of type company would use a second layer in a 90 degree from other to keep bow from wobbling. A few later bows in 1970s just as company was ending, used an outer layer of fabric style at 90 degrees and regular fiberglass under for a quicker production. Reason company used woven fiberglass for so long was the owner of original company had originally a boat repair shop and lots of boats repairs use woven fiberglass.
@@caseysmith544 I would strongly suggest the torsional ridgidity from glass at 45deg would be insufficient to make a super recurve work. But the mass penalty would be quite negative. But running woven glass at 90% is pointless. Doing so with carbon is nothing but marketting box ticking. But glass is a performance killer
@@BorderArcheryLTD I will also say I think Great Plains Traditional Archery Company of USA has some more moder recurve models where limbs are tapering as skinny as slightly wider American Style Longbow (ASL) like on Bear Montana but use some kind of single direction lamination carbon fiber substitute for core of bows and have ability to Make in ASL limbs as skinny as an English Longbow only flat so the limbs meet a more strict definition of an ASL flat limb and similar design in American Style Shortbows in companies Youth Longbow when used by adults. Only problem is in Hill model or 100% straight limb model is no longer on site as a model so in bottom you need to ask for a model in description and ask for a flat grip otherwise you get a universal hand style of medium notched/deep locator grip. Same for kids models no longer on site so people need to ask for models of Youth, a recurve and Youth longbow so fewer people buying know of the 2 You models for smaller draw people who are 25 inches or under in draw for a 24 inch draw measured bow.
@@caseysmith544 they all gain the usual 2lbs per inch, and Start to stack around 19" like all bows. Stack being defined here by the dfc going inverted in a concave way rather than convexed in preload
So, are you saying that this"instability" created by uncontrolled torsional reactions has to be dealt with by knowing the limitations inherent in whatever bow we are using.?
Is that sarchasim, or you looking for an argument? I totally agree with your equation, sir! You have more knowledge and experience . But I do believe his shooting style towards his maturity, solidified that statement. Question, I would ask, can you build a recurve that he could shoot with the same out come? Thank you, I would love to shoot a super 'curve! Steve
Solid repetitive form means you can shoot anything. Recurves as we know them were just being invented. So for me his statement was based on poor recurve designs being tested, or an agenda. Because there is no reason in my mind why anyone can't shoot any type of bow well, as long as they understand shooting. He is famous for making longbows. So im 50/50 on the poor recurve design. Afterall, where are there no recurves shot in target archery? Why are on average recurve scores noticeably better than longbows?
How do the foam core limbs that are being made stack up with other limb designs. The foam is a newer design limb in my mind since most trad bowyers do not use it.
Most trad bowyers buy the same materials from the same 2 suppliers. So if they don't do it. Thats them stuck. We have achieved what we have because don't buy a single fiber or plank or billet from any archery source. Foam cores can come in millions of variations. Some stuff is really heavy so performance is reduced. Some is really light and has poor longevity. Such as taking a set. The trick is to finding something with a lower density than maple yet still doesn't have a problem with fatigue
None, other than paradox is reversed. Same as it would be for a normal bow shot with a thumb ring. We can make a right handed grip with a left handed window for example if someone wanted to go that route
@@BorderArcheryLTD I’m surprised. I would think that a thumb ring because of the single point of contact would vibrate the string less as compared to the 3 finger release. BTW I shoot Olympic recurve. Have you experimented with these bows? Among the challenges in my opinion are the number of arrows shot each practice session. When I competed in college, I practiced 4-6 hours a dat. Would the limbs hold up?
Why would they not hold up? Our limbs for years have been shot on full target rigs.... In the videos I've started posting I talk about 3 under vs split finger. And how it can change tiller requirement but no one ever addresses grip pressure location
@@BorderArcheryLTDThank you for the info. You seem to have a engineer’s mindset.Would luv to see a conversation between you and Jake Kaminski/Olympic silver medalist. Maybe some ILF Olympic limbs would result?
Quantify "Olympic ilf limbs", or do you mean small recurves? In which case. What's small? And why does small = olympic recurve limbs. Ps. We have made ilf limbs since the early 90s. World records have been set using our vision limbs. Just look for Kate murray 2012 london Olympics with her hex6 bb2s
We do, but not as much. They are naturally stable. But when at full draw. The curvature of the limb can torque a little. So marginal amounts of torsional enhancement doesn't harm in our experience.
@@kviljo we don't trust chrono results. Be it ours or yours. So how would we have faith that your results marry ours.... lets say there are chronos that run 10fps different to others. So your expectations are based on what datum speed.....
@@BorderArcheryLTD For sure! There are too many variables to compare tests from different test setups, but it would be cool to see your bows against other brands, if you've got the time to test them. I plan on doing the same, but haven't yet found the time yet.
@@kviljo would you trust a manufacturer to test 2 bows, there's against?? I don't even trust independent testers. I "broke" a tester when I said a hootereshooter doesn't test trad bows well, as you don't shoot the bow with your hand pressure dead in the throat, so tiller is off.
@@BorderArcheryLTD One could always find excuses not to trust results, but there are certainly ways of making a test pretty objective. I think it would have been interesting to see. You must have tested the speeds of your bows yourself? 😄
I have Uukha Selenga limbs, what do you make of these? They are 80% Carbon Fibre and 20% Glass, for me they are great but I just wonder what your opinion of Uukha limbs is.
Sharing knowledge is a problem when your followed by bowyers who claim all sorts of negative things about your product while taking inspiration from your product
@@BorderArcheryLTD I agree with you on that. But that’s also why your video’s are necessary, to shed light on these topics with the knowledge that a lot of people want to be educated and understand. There is a lot of bad information out there, you’re doing a great thing here 😊
@@BorderArcheryLTD That's called 'life' mate ;) Wilcox's Duoflex is arguably a good design to make with 45 carbon. I do find it quite amusing how you talk about 45 orientation as though you were the first to notice its properties. Have you ever made any hornbows or just modern stuff?
World has plenty of crooked people in it. I find it's best just to continue to work at your best and let Karma deal with the crooks and idea thieves.@@BorderArcheryLTD
In which case there's no need to name a car a sadan, a grand tourer. A suv, a compact. A super mini. They are all just cars. Are ASLs, reflex deflex and hybrids all just longbows??
I have a 70 inch Recurve with Formula limbs 38# that.I use for Barebow. The deepest part of the Riser is exactly 34 inches ( the bow is 68inches when strung with a 8 3/4" brace height. In listening to you what you were saying I got the opinion that the line that extends from the curved section of the limbs should be closer to the inside inside of the riser... ..hence the question about the "lower" brace height. What was the title of the book you were referring to?
@@BorderArcheryLTD thankyou for answering my questions i just came across you channel a few days ago i like how you go into detail most of it i get . Im a tall guy and i like the idea of long rizers and long recurve bows if i have longer rizer does that equal more energy to fling the arrow faster and harder . Like a 19" compared to a 25" riser?
