No mention of Atheism+? "Organized Atheism" marginalized the straight white males around 2010. If you're an atheist you're expected to be feminist and pro-CRT, etc. Your research is a bit out of date...
Let's simplify. Without God = without the concept of it / an idol to worship, vs using media such as words - of more educated men. Believing means more though. It means creating. One can propel the concept of God into creating human-like models of perception, which is a gigaproject of now. The time is 2024.
@@CAPSLOCKPUNDIT organization matter less when you have common idea of identification or some sort of spiritual organization within our mind that connect us in some way in another
If Prager-U can get their shitty videos approved for use in schools as educational material, Religion for Breakfast should be able to get some kind of public funding as well. The minimally biased, scholarly presentation of religion is a public good.
What I have learned, after I _left_ the death cult of atheist religion, is that zero atheists have any clue about religion, nor of history, and, they do not even know anything about their own religion, atheist religion. Explain to us all here, According to atheist religion which rejects free will, Why was it _not_ evil when atheist mao zedong did away with 70 million people?
As an "out" Atheist living in South Africa, this video is probably more respectful and helpful for Theists to understand us than 99% of videos covering the subject on RU-vid. Can't wait for more episodes!
Hi deist Unitarian Christian here this video wasn't really necessary for me because I have a better understanding of the atheist Community itself and understand that they're not a monolith.
@dcmarvelcomicfans9458 how can you be a deist christian? If god sent prophets to earth, he meddled in human affairs. That contradicts what deism is all about.
@@luxeayt6694 Maybe he's a Classical Theist like Aquinas? Classical Theism could be called Deistic Christianity I suppose, even of it's a bit of an oxymoron, I'm not sure. I'd like to know though!
Oh heck (not hell) yeah. I’ve been eagerly awaiting this series. Great to see this given scholarly treatment rather than getting yet another opinion piece about it (from any side).
@@loreenzo2120 as a longtime atheist with many atheist friends, antitheism tends to be a stop along the path. More religious trauma, the deeper and more abiding the antitheism
As an atheist who has always had a passion for learning about religions, I always appreciated the strictly anthropological approach you took in explaining different religious views. I am truly thrilled that you are now willing to explore irreligion and are keeping with that approach in order to help others understand our world view. I feel that one important factor that distinguishes atheists from each other is whether they apostatized from religion or not. Those who fall into that category, like myself, tend to have a more negative view of organized religion and engage in more atheist activism because of the factors that caused them to apostatize. In my case, it was my cousin coming out of the closet and then being ridiculed by certain family members that drove me away from Christianity and led me to question my beliefs
You can also often see a difference in how long ago someone became an atheist. If you recently became an atheist you probably have a more negative view of religion since you have recent negative experiences.
@@hedgehog3180Not sure. My experiences with religion were positive growing up. My deconversion began due to theological reasons, now I'm more open to look at religion critically, which I was scared to do while I was religious. My view of religion was much more positive shortly after my deconversion. I agree more with the initial comment, that people who leave religion tend to have a more negative than those who never were religious because we can see how it impacted us and others.
@@ReligionForBreakfastYou might have covered this in another video, but I'm kind of curious what the relevant scholars think "belief" consists of, in general. I often see people make a distinction between purported belief and "real" beliefs, but I'm honestly not sure how one would know what one "believes" since the thoughts and behaviors associated with belief seem to vary depending on the situation.
It's interesting how ancient texts use atheism very differently. For examples some authors called Christians atheists because they denied the existence of Greco-Roman gods.
@@williamboisdenghien2849 yep! Because Christians were weirdos (in the eyes of the Romans, but this would have applied to all ancient cultures) that not only didn't they follow the gods like all right thinking folks, but they denied they even existed! Lunacy! Plus they very vocally tried to sway others to their way of thinking
@@ReligionForBreakfast Would be interesting to know what belief systems Atheists around the world draw their values from. From my POV you can’t really derive every belief from something known to be true. A bit of a survey here seems like an exercise well worth of a RU-vid video.
@@cloudsofsunset7323 I'm a Hedonistic Zen Buddhist Absurdist Heathen Pagan Philosopher who has a pantheon of gods, goddesses, personal gods and goddesses I made up, spiritual entities, Tulpamancer, Agnostic individual who Laughs in the Face of Chaos and goes about their day while understanding a deeper level of meaning of what Up is Down, Down is Up, means.
I'm a Mexican-American woman and have been atheist for almost 10 years. My immediate family knows but not my extended family in Mexico. I faced harsh criticism from my immediate family and I can't imagine how my extended family.
@@FleurPillagerah yes. because it’s very common to go around asking: “ do you think your secular government is telling the truth??” People live normal lives and they do not love their government. Absolutely everyone I know trash talks to government. And no, they don’t believe everything it says. Do you even have contact with normal population? What on earth are you talking about? And no, people disagree with you politically does not mean that they love or trust the government.
In Czechia it goes like this: „Do you believe in god” „Yes” „Whaaaat! For real? Did you inherit religion from your parents or something? Wait you *actually* believe it? You really go to church every week?”
BTW, according to the Judeo-Christian belief that produced the original artwork, that's the true way it should look like, according to the ten commandments...
One thing you said in the second segment (starting around 3:10) reminded me of this famous quote from the early days of the internet: “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” - Stephen Roberts
This video makes me really happy seeing my existence as an atheist viewed scholarly as opposed to as part of a battle or just ignored. I remeber once sitting in a training that was talking about how to be inclusive of different faiths and it really really stuck me how discussion of people being non believers just never came up. And how a lot or times it just doesn't. Even in politically progressive spaces
@@edgarquintero2876 just because you think Allah doesn't exist doesn't mean Allah doesn't exist. You can be a scholar studying the wrong thing a whole life time.
@@edgarquintero2876 I mean... sure. But Atheism is the null-hypothesis. It's a non-assumption. You shouldn't assume the Christian god exists without evidence, any more than you should believe Zoro-Aster, Guanyin, Hachimon, Zeus, the Buddha, Osiris, Izanagi/Izanami, Thor, Shida Matunda... etc., etc., etc. exist. Your god is one in a vast sea of gods theorized by countless civilizations, who all believed with 100% certainty they were right. The ironic thing is that you'll apply this same logic to basically everything in your life except god, because of course the religion you were taught as a child is the correct one. You don't believe in trolls, unicorns, or Santa Clause, because there's no evidence they exist, and that'd be silly, right? But God? Of course he exists! My parents told me so!
I wish I felt comfortable identifying myself publicly as an atheist. Tons of people at my job are Catholic, and they'll tell you like it's no big deal. 😐
My religious studies professor assigned your videos as part of our class discussions. I had to describe because of your ability to explain very complex topics covering sociology, religion, politics, history, etc. You make me excited to learn these topics.
@@eyevou The character Gin Rummy is a parody of then Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who once said this at a press briefing during the Iraq War. Ed Wuncler III is likewise a parody of then president George W. Bush, and their debut episode "A Date With the Health Inspector" is an allegory for the Iraq War as a whole.
@@digitaljanus Sounds like you took a look at the boondocks wiki. I know the context of the character but I thought it was a hilarious enough quote on its own to deal with them saying that they self describe as an "agnostic athiest".
@@eyevouDon't you know what the OP means with "agnostic atheist"? Gnosis relates to know, theist refers to belief. So, it's simply someone who doesn't KNOW if a god exists but believes that it doesn't.
Atheist here, thank you for making this video and helping to break down stereotypes about us. As a parent, I can’t afford to support you on Patreon but I hope that those who can will.
I never understood what "supernatural" is even supposed to mean. If it exists, it is natural so by definition something supernatural can not exist, because if it does exist it's no longer supernatural.
Most atheists are agnostic atheists. Though the really based ones recognize that there is a preponderance of evidence supporting the idea that gods are a man-made concept stemming from a few quirks of our cognition and the resulting social developments which resulted from those quirks.
My family does not take my agnoctism seriously, even when my mother's tongue slipped as she told my aunt that I do not fast in Ramadans anymore, my aunt told her that it was only a phase that all young men go through. The issue here is that I am not taken seriously by anyone, and treated like an amoral untrustworthy person, since people here equate religiosity with good moral behavior, and in their minds stronger faith and religious convictions will always push you to be a moral person, whereas amorality is a direct cause of stowing away from the right path. This leads to many complicated and tension filled interactions, especially with my extended family, since I have managed to mend my relationship with my mother and siblings, but the unspoken rule here, Do not mention or ever give the vibe that you are an atheist, fast since it is her house. On psychological grounds, losing the delusion of divine providence that always guides us towards the best of outcomes is both frightening and liberating, it forces us to rely on ourselves exclusively without dulling our senses with metaphysically heavenly inspirations and help.
I'm an atheist cause my family was wayyy into church to the point where it controlled their lives. It took until my mid 20s to stop being "le edgy religious hater" atheist. I may not believe in god or religion, but it's nice to see it bring comfort to other people.
Though not my upbringing, it can be jarring to discover that your parents were lying to you. It makes you ask "What else were they lying about?" Especially as a teen,learning about the world from your peers as you age, than your parents.
@@Neenerella333it's less learning that they're lying to you and more like learning that they don't actually have it all figured out. And much of what they told you about the world is probably up in the air on what the actual truth is.
To me, an atheist, if one says they are atheist then they are. Even if said atheist might go to a place of worship and do something ritualistic like light a candle, they are still atheist. The atheist could be keeping a promise or request (as best as they can) to a beloved person or friend to do something like, "light a candle in the chapel on my birthday & say a little hello prayer." It's not done out of belief; it's done out of loyalty & love of another. The atheist isn't thinking of any diety during the ritual, they are thinking only of the loved one.
I do think there is a tendency for dogmatic religions (like specifically christianity) to assume that all other forms of belief (or imagined belief) work exactly the way a dogmatic religion does. for instance the satanic panic purposed that there were people who would do literally christianity but opposite in order to worship satan which this is like... not a thing that happens. but in order to believe satanism is an actual threat they legitimize it through the language of church politic, for example. so it makes sense that athiesm is a term that kind of means everything and nothing in colloquial use. interesting episode!!
I think this is also the reason why "New Atheism" has taken the form that it has. Basically all of its major proponents come from a Christian or at least monotheistic background, so they approach their atheism in a similar way: thinking mostly about "refuting" Christianity and the Christian concept of God, especially the evangelical brand of it, dealing with non-Western and non-theistic forms of religion as well as ritualistic religiosity mostly as an afterthought if at all. And using a similar style and drive of preaching as religious apologeticists. :D
I think it's a fairly safe assumption that people tend to see the world through the lense they're familiar with and tend to view other groups as modifications on what they're familiar with rather than something wholly unique. To some degree this is inevitable since you have to start somewhere but you do need to be able to overcome this to truely understand other people.
@@PR1NC345 My precocious son. He comes to me with questions about himself, reincarnation, justice and such. I want to be a father that can give him some fundamentals for figuring these things out.
@YoLkE-22222 I completely agree but at 10 is really young I'd wait till late or after puberty when they actually start thinking of what life is, instead of when they care about Legos
Not calling yourself Atheist could also be because it’s just the norm in the country you live in… like me living in the Nordic countries. Saying “I don’t believe in God” in Sweden is like saying “I don’t believe Santa brings all children around the world their Christmas gifts”.
Yeah. Funnily enough, in my confirmation group, none of us were actually Christian. At best I would call some of us agnostics, but that was all. All were just going through it because of tradition. Very typical of Swedes. Even going through a very Christian ritual doesn't mean we see it as a serious religious thing. It's just tradition - something our siblings did, our parents, their parents and so on did.
I was not raised religious and expressing ones religion very much takes a back seat in my culture. Your channel has been a huge source of knowledge about religion for me. With understanding comes appreciation and a feeling of respect for the various convictions people hold. So glad I discovered your channel years ago Dr. Thank you!
I am an atheist who does not announce it, but always answers immediately when asked my religion. Theists - these are my positions - - - - * I do not "believe" in atheism. There is nothing to believe - it just is. For me, atheism is a complete LACK of belief in any supernatural beings or processes whatsoever. * Atheism is not my "religion". (See the above.) Neither is science nor any other evidence-based field (which _includes_ evolution). * I am not the Devil, or any other silly supernatural character. I do not wish anyone ill. * I am as ethical and moral as I can humanly be. Lack of religion / supernaturalism does NOT prevent me from having love and empathy for my fellow Earthlings. * I consider myself to be a progressive who thinks that my fellows should have all the human rights possible (our fellow non-human Earthlings, too). This includes human responsibility for our planetary family as well. * I do not pay tithes to any religion, but will gladly donate to charitable and other worthy groups. * I DO read religious texts (so do NOT tell me to read the _Bible_ so that I will suddenly change my mind - I haven't yet) and I watch educational videos, like _Religion for Breakfast,_ because religious beliefs are as interesting as any other folk tales. * I do NOT "worship" Carl Sagan, Flint Dibble, Andrew Henry, Neil deGrasse Tyson, David Miano, Albert Einstein, Charles Darwin, Svante Paabo, "Gutsick Gibbon", or any other scientist / researcher / educator. I DO, however, admire them, their persistence, and their intelligence. I appreciate that they share their knowledge.
"Secular humanist" was the term I remember in the 90s used for people who disbelieved in God, but that disbelief was part of an overall disbelief of the supernatural. Has that term fallen out of use?
Secular humanism is more of a moral view that doesn't take into effect the idea of god. Basically humanism is the idea that morals derive from the idea that people are viewed as autonomic creatures, and therefore deserve rights.
No. But the take is that atheist/atheism is solely the position on god claims: a lack of belief. Secular humanism is how you act, where you base your morals on etc.
Secular humanist is still what I call myself when I'm asked what my religion is, because I find "atheist" an insufficient answer to the question. There have been some concerted efforts among certain segments of the American evangelical community to stigmatize secular humanism in the American public consciousness over these last couple of decades, so the term has somewhat fallen out of fashion, as quite a few Americans now ludicrously believe "secular humanist" means "secret Satanist." If there is a God, may She deliver us from Her fan club.
It was alive and well at least in the early 2010’s. I remember expressing (as a devout evangelical christian) that my morals and world views were more closely aligned with Christian Humanism. Then being immediately warned that Christian Humanism was dangerously close to Secular Humanism and that I really need to reconsider how I was arrived at that conclusion, lol.
I was a hardcore, capital-A Atheist in my youth. Looking back on it, I treated it very much like a religion or strict ideology. I was evangelistic towards others in trying to dissuade them from their beliefs. I would immediately lose respect for anyone who professed any kind of religious or spiritual inclinations. And I was hardly alone, this kind of mentality was really prevalent on the internet in the late-2000s, although I think it has lessened a bit in later years as the image of the stereotypical fedora-tipping atheist has done damage to the perception of that label. I'm grateful to no longer be living in that toxic mindset.
I think it's a common reaction when you first become an atheist because you feel cheated and perhaps a bit smug for having seen through it. As you age the feelings die down and you become more chill.
"either because they don't want to face stigma or because they want to present themselves in a certain light, social desirability bias may be why self-identified atheists are more likely to be white, male, and educated; because it may easier for them to adopt a socially stigmatized identity than someone from a more marginalized community" Thank you for opening my eyes to that, sincerely. -white male educated atheist
Being trans this is something I've definitely noticed among queer people, while few are actually religious most also aren't willing to actively identify with atheism specifically because of the stigma around it and the bigotry of some prominent atheist figures.
Areligious Taoism is both godless and sometimes even Taoless - considering the Tao more as a philosophical point of reference than an existing entity (one might even say that the Tao that exists is not the true Tao)
@@becketthor6478 I don't know. I learned about Taoism from a Western author (The Tao is Silent by Raymond Smullyan) and he presented it as an areligious philosophical tradition. Was he right? I don't know. I don't particularly care - some of the best food comes from mixing cultures, and so do some of the best ideas. Religious Taoism with its various gods and goddesses doesn't appeal to me, but I feel I get a lot out of reading the Tao Te Ching anyway, and don't remember any gods or goddesses being in it.
@@becketthor6478living somewhere with a chinese majority, I can say it's largely an academic category. All Taoists I know are mixed in with Chinese folk religion and Buddhism
@@silverharloe There's a philosophical part, from which theism derived. Let's keep in mind PanGu didn't CREATE the world but simply brought the world into Being.
There are plenty of people, including me, who take moral lessons and inspiration from Daoist ideas, without believing in (all or any of) the supernatural aspects of it. I doubt most of them would describe themselves as Daoists, though.
I am a middle school world history teacher. I am committed to bringing my students a better world history education than I was given. I had too many history teachers unprepared to answer the questions that young inquisitive minds have about history and culture. You're videos have been INVALUABLE in not only expanding my knowledge but also presenting vast and complicated topics in a manner that is easy to understand but not insultingly dumbed down. You are one of the first youtube channels I reccomend to anyone interested in history and culture.
In my experience on the internet, I have met more people who mock and ridicule the stereotypical angry euphoric evangelical atheist than actual self-described atheists. The stigma against atheism is still very much alive. It's similar to vegans and vegetarian. If I had a dime for every time I've heard the same jokes about vegans being obnoxious and evangelical... as an occasional eater of dead animals, if find those "jokes" way more obnoxious than the actual vegans. _How do you know if you meet someone who is vegan? Don't worry, they'll tell you!_ It's like people feel that their values, their way of life, is being challenged , even threatened, by the mere existence of atheists. And vegans.
Because their way of life _is_ being challenged and threatened (by Atheism, not by veganism...). The whole point of the Atheist movement was to bring about a greater secularity & get people to stop believing in religion. It was unfortunate that, since no one could adequately respond to the intellectual challenges posed by Atheism, out of the mouths of Dawkins & the like, they rounded on the stupidity of the young & immature ones. I don't think being 'polite' about it would have helped. Have a look at America right now: the biggest support base for Trump is Christian Evangelicals.
In the beginning of this video he gives an example of "New Atheism" which was a wave of people all over the internet acting smug and belittling religious people behaving as if they're idiots. The backlash against this is what you're seeing now. Eventually people realized that the New Atheists were obnoxious and some of them ironically turning their nonreligiousness into a religion. Now they've been mocking the New Atheists for so long that they're beating a dead horse.
@@thealmightyaku-4153 Atheism in recent decades is far more interested in far-right politics, Islamophobia, and Western/white supramacy than any actual efforts to maintain or improve upon secularism.
This will be an incredibly interesting series. A lot of Christians perceive everything else through a religious and Christian framework, and while that already turns other religions into a caricature of Christianity (for instance, understanding Islam as "well, their Jesus is Muhammad, and their Bible is the Quran, and their churches are mosques"), it especially turns atheism into some weird incomprehensible "religion" in the eyes of these Christians (I've even seen some extremely ignorant ones online say that atheists worship Darwin, or nature, or themselves...). So, I look forward to this series. It will be very interesting to see an analysis not of religion, but of non-religion, and to see how unlike one another the two are. I already find it terribly interesting you brought up the many different kinds of non-religion and of atheism there really are. Because of how pertinent this topic is, similar to "what is the Kaaba?", I hope this video series does great numbers too!
@@timothypeterson4781You’d be surprised then. Like the original commenter said, Christians tend to view other religions through their own Christian lens. So they then contrast and compare other religions with their own, which leads them to making parallels, such as between Jesus and Muhammad or the Bible and the Koran.
@@timothypeterson4781Many christians make these analogous comparisons. It's pretty common for christians to trace similarities and parallels with other religions and myths to try and validate their own as the "true religion". The most common example they use for this is the myth of flood.
@@Alieth this is true and I want to add that this is true for everyone. Even an atheist who is, lets say "ex Christian", may still view the whole of Christianity through whatever specific view of Christianity they had when they were a Christian. And they may still apply that particular Christian view to non Christian religion as well.
Theist, atheist, agnostic, etc. it doesn't matter to me what people believe I just wish they would stop being antagonistic toward each other. We're all looking for the same things in life we just get there in different ways.
Let us know when you come back from "wishland" - there's lots of work to do and what you hope for has a better chance of becoming a reality if you act instead of wishing! Try volunteering or donating to non profit groups that involve people of different identities working together! Sorry, what you said sounded a lot like "thoughts and prayers" which amounts to a lot of hot air. Good health to you!
I raised 75k and Christina Ann Tucker is to be thanked. I got my self my dream car 🚗 just last weekend, My journey with her started after my best friend came back from New York and saw me suffering in dept then told me about her and how to change my life through her. Christina A. Tucker is the kind of person one needs in his or her life! I got a home, a good wife, and a beautiful daughter. Note: this is not a promotion but me trying to make a point that no matter what happens, always have faith and keep living!!!
@@ReligionForBreakfastIt's a pity that so much of this research you cited seems to be US based when that nation is known to have quite an extreme religious spectrum. It would interesting to compare those kind of surveys with ones taken in other Anglophone nations like Britain, Canada, NZ or my place Australia. Then other Western nations too. Atheism on those places may not have the same social stigma as in the US.
@@tsopmocful1958 There was a survey in East Germany (i.e. the ex-communist part) in the mid-90s that basically got as its result for the religion question in the majority something like "err, nothing? just ... normal".
Massive respect to you for doubling down on your commitment to educating the public about religion. Your channel fell off my feed for a while but the Kaaba video brought it back. Keep doing your amazing work!
I'm an italian woman and I identify as an atheist. I lost my faith when I was 15 years old. I'm 32 now, I've been an atheist for at least 17 years. 😊😊🎉🎉🎉 Thank you for this video, it will be a pleasure for me to watch the others!
I was raised in a religious Jewish environment. But when I became a teen I started asking questions and when I learned that the Jewish God was a Canaanite construct built on even older traditions, it all became clear to me: there is no thing such as a God. And, to this day, I cannot understand why people who do believe in a God will automatically ignore the proofs otherwise. And you can be sure I want, "In God We Trust" off our courthouse walls and gone from our currency. The SCOTUS was wrong when they ruled the reference to a God was universally accepted cultural norm. It is the belief of weak people who need a guiding hand to tell them what to do so they can go ahead and do it anyway.
i know an atheist who is/was a former muslim and decided to leave after making/made (idk if this person’s still alive or not but i’d use present tense anyway cuz why not) an ultimate decision to study all religions in the world and then decide which religion they’ll adopt, and they won’t stop even if it means they’ll die an atheist. they simply don’t _believe_ nor they adhere to dogmatic teachings of the concept of belief, knowing that religions, to quote them, mostly contradict each other and therefore they refuse to see other religions by the perspective of their former religion. last time we had touch, they identify themselves as a deist (god/gods created us but due to some reasons, we’re left to be bound by laws of physics/nature and what happened after death isn’t our business as we have a life to live and improving our sense of curiosity, empathy, and understanding). i missed them
another point: atheism in some asian countries are frowned upon, as in people assume you think you are higher than god because ‘you don’t need god (for whatever reasons)’. even in other select countries, being an open/coming-out atheist can land you in jail (i’m not kidding) for blasphemy acts. and even in _other_ select countries, their people want atheists dead this person i referred above comes from said country
The problem with being an atheist in a predominantly religious region is that people[not all] when they find out you're an atheist will try by all means to convert you to their religion. Like this one coworker whose whole personality is being religious realized I don't religion😅, now every single day will tell me to repent and that "Jesus loves you".
My wife was very much like that. She was one of the early folks that the trend towards fundamentalism drove away from Christianity in the early 2000s. She always jokes that she was too good of a Christian not to be an atheist, meaning that she bought into all the other religions being wrong, so she was left unable to believe anything
@@jasonGamesMaster I assume good faith (pun non intended) from your wife so I don't believe she's bigoted just from that comment. I believe the other person assumed that your wife may be bigoted because unfortunately there's some self proclaimed atheists who are Islamophobic (*believing that theocratic Islamic states are horrible is okay, being prejudiced against your Muslim neighbor in your western country is more problematic), and then there's also some that are anti-feminist who tend to have very problematic feelings about women, queer people and whatnot. These two can also intersect. Again, I don't believe the assumption was necessarily true, but I figured I'd explain where that comment likely came from.
Thank you so much for this. This was one of the few times I've ever experienced my belief/non-belief system treated with such care and veneration. Thank you for treating atheism, and more importantly atheists, in this manner. I am so excited for the channel receiving the grant to cover this topic over the next year! I've been a subscriber to the channel for years now because I, like quite a few other atheists I've met, carry an immense interest in religion and religious history. If there were any RU-vid channel I could dream of taking on this topic for a year's worth of content, Religion for Breakfast is one of not even a handful that I know would treat the topic with reverence, honesty, and clarity. Thank you for what you do. As an atheist that has even lost a job due to my views, which I keep private unless asked, I know all too well how much discrimination atheists can suffer. That, combined with the lack of community support when facing those sorts of immense challenges, is something I would do anything for the next generation of atheists to never experience. I think your upcoming series can help play a part into bringing my wish that much closer to reality. I've never joined a Patreon before, but this is ambitious project combined with the respect you and the channel show for all the topics you cover is changing that fact today.
You're not alone. I've been fired for being an Atheist too. They didn't come out and say it, they found other excuses. There was nothing I could do about it anyway since it was early in my career and I was scared of what suing would do to my future job opportunities.
I think a lot of atheists have a scholarly interest in religion since it's a topic you were forced to confront at some point. Plus it's a lot easier to learn about different religions if you have no skin in the game so to say.
Atheist is default religious status in Northeast Asia, like Korea, Japan, and China. Most of Chinese and Japanese have no religious affiliation whatsoever. 60+% of South Koreans identify themselves as non religious. Having any religion or religious affiliation is special case, and mostly (less educated) elderlies. Chiana was largely atheist country throughout most of her history, well before going communist. Confucianism is essentially atheism. He explicitly excluded any supernatural being or afterlife, on basis of agnostic thinking, and prohibited worshiping or indulging on such subject (怪力亂神) for the "educated gentleman". Visiting shrine or worshiping ancestors are considered as social tradition or ethics like respecting their parents and seniors, not religion. They don't believe that misbehaving bad children will be punished by the spirits. State politics was secular. Unfortunate connotation of atheism and communism is quite recent in history. Atheism and atheist have flourished in NE Asia, well before birth of K. Marx or even Jesus.
I hope that this aspect of atheism will be discussed further. Some years ago, I heard the rather interesting question "Is Shintoism atheist?" And the answer often boils down to the interpretation of "kami". Do you consider them as "gods" (theistic) or "spirits" (atheistic)?
That is very not true. You are retconning your modern social programming to past events and literally excluding ALL Asian belief systems as not-religion when they absolutely are and provide that function.
In Japan shintoism is often not thought of as a religion, so it makes sense that they would view themselves as non religious, but it's not exactly "naturalism".
As a deeply spiritual atheist i follow your channel religiously..you helped me in my journey a lot along with lets talk religion philip...I wish you all the peace ✌️ and happiness all along your journey in this vast and wonderful cosmos on amoat of dust
Growing up in Central Kenya, a very religious place I was a very inquisitive kid and an avid reader. My mother says its no surprise I ended up being an atheist
As an atheist myself, I appreciate you taking the time to discuss this. Too often we only hear arguments from self-proclaimed atheists or from Christian or Muslim anti-atheists, so it will be good to have a more neutral perspective discuss our movement and beliefs (or lack thereof).
I'm an Atheist because I was never told about any religion as a child. I was never told anything negative or positive. So my first experiences with religious people were about as natural as one could hope. For me my first memory of Christianity was of a kid on a play ground asking me if I believed in god. When I asked what God was he told me I was going to Hell. So I asked what hell was and he told me it was a terrible fiery place where I would burn for eternity. He offered no proof or explanation just said that I would have a horrible eternal experience just because I didn't, "believe," in his, "God." Nothing about the experience was appealing or satisfying. I felt that it was menacing and absurd and sounded like the same make believe that I was very familiar with as a child. Nothing and I repeat nothing has ever made religion appear to be more true than that in the rest of My 40+ years of life. Religion has never been satisfying or meaningful to me. Ever. As a humanists I have nothing against religious people but I will never be a believer. Ever. PS: The part of religion that frustrates me the most is how meaningless their language is. Words like God, Faith, and divinity mean absolutely nothing to me. More rather they means such utterly human things that I could never see them as universal and separate from the human experience. The word, "God/s" is/are either so specific as to be irrelevant to me or so ambiguous so as to mean nothing at all. Also, the word, "supernatural," is such a meaningless term on it's own, if something exists it is natural. Sure it might obey different laws but there is no logical line that would separate anything that exists as supernatural vs natural. The definition of natural would cover all of the existing things.
Also, I'm not an Atheist for Atheist culture. In fact I can barely stand any of the so called new Atheists. I'm not an Atheist because of them. I'm an Atheist because of the world's religions.
for me , religion isn't hating non-believer or judging people , it is loving and caring about other people . that children who told you that you will burn in hell is very rude , i don't think he really belief in God . God is love and he love all people , but we all sin so much:( i agree with you . Glory to Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit 😊
I’ve identified as an agnostic atheist for years-I can’t be certain about the existence or non existence of divinity, but I’m heavily leaning toward the no. The distinctions put forward in the video are really interesting, because they highlight how non-religion is often misevaluated or misunderstood. The public hatred against atheists in the US really shows how deep religious stereotypes run there.
It's not a one dimensional thing though. I'm as atheist as one can be (Analytical Atheist?), I operate 100% as empirically based as I can. And I keep that to myself. I also wish everyone in the world operated based on facts and evidence as well, and I genuinely believe the world would be better for it. But I've long given up on thinking you can change anyone's mind through confronting them individually about their beliefs.
Some things you certainly can change people's minds on, particularly their less-informed, less-closely held, less-identity forming beliefs. Religious beliefs are probably the single most difficult type of beliefs to change people's minds about, though, both because they are often foundational, dearly held and frequently acted upon beliefs, and because religious thinking generally assumes a mode of thought that's entirely separate from and plays by different rules than other avenues of thought. I also think this is why religious people tend to have no issue dismissing other religions and why childhood indoctrination is so important for world religions, because religious belief is incompatible with rigorous skeptical thought. So this mode of thought must be bypassed in the context of the dominant religion through conditioning in childhood.
Word to the wise. Empiricism isn't the only good method to pursue objective truth. It's only applicable to certain kinds of subjects, for example. An empirical approach to history, for example, would ONLY include archeological findings and would reject all forms of historical narrative. The vast majority of sources would be rejected by empirical methods. This is why we have the historical method too. Most of philosophy is not empirical either. And yet we use it constantly as a basis for and guide to reliable truths.
@@RobespierreThePoof That is an incredibly radical form of empiricism, or at least a philosophically pure one that does not reflect the ways in which laypeople use the term. Like when top comment refers to empiricism, I understand its meaning to be a mix of skepticism and philosophical naturalism, meaning a dismissal of supernatural explanations and a willingness to entertain (not assume) the incorrectness of non-empirical thought. That said, the historical method itself is not incompatible with religious ideas, so the historical method itself is not sufficient for refining a maximally accurate, secular view of history. I realized this when I learned that a family member who happens to be Christian clergy claims their primary reason to believe to be the abundance of historical evidence for the resurrection such as multiple sources with little motivation to lie and for little motivation for a liar/storyteller to choose to be sources (women.) Nothing about the historical method in this view inherently objects to the hypothesis that Jesus was God and was resurrected. Only with an additional philosophical stance that such things are impossible can you do the work of history without being swept up by religious narratives.
As an atheist, not even I can give it a definition… So I was wondering why I called myself an atheist anyway. I think the answer lies in the feeling that whatever comes after, the feeling of freedom must be the first. Otherwise I will have to depend on whether I receive oxygen or not, based on circumstance.
I have been treated poorly by all walks of life, but regardless of gender, color, age, status, etc. - I've never been treated like as if I was subhuman, and with such vitriol, until I met the devoutly religious. Not matter the denomination, they've always made sure to remind me that there's something "wrong" with me, all because I didn't share their beliefs. Just as a thought experiment, say you're talking with someone. Anyone. You've struck up quite the conversation. It seems to be going fine and you're excited for a potential new friend or partner. And at one point, they say: "Wait, you're not an atheist? You deserve to be tortured forever!" Can you picture it? And this is the best case scenario. I would never even fathom being so dismissive and cruel to people around me, for any reason. I'm willing to forgive, but I'll never forget those moments for as long as I live.
I think there is an important distinction to be made when defining atheism. Statements such as ,,I don't believe God exists" or ,,I believe God doesn't exists" have very different implications, for example.
Agreed, and unfortunately "atheist" applies validly to both those positions. Which is why I avoid using it and choose to fully qualify my (un)belief when it matters.
Tbf I feel like the difference only matters because religious apologists won't shut up about it. It should be obvious to anyone that when someone says “I don't believe X exists” they aren't asserting that they have positive proof that X doesn't exist, they're saying that they fail to see the evidence that it does exist. Like if I say “I don't believe Bigfoot exists” it is obvious that I'm saying that I don't see the evidence for Bigfoot as compelling.
I have to say, this video is so much better than Useful Charts' recent video on atheism. He tried to make a family tree of atheism, and he more or less asserted that atheists are mostly secular humanists. He then made a diagram showing a number historical (mainly English speaking) secular organizations. There was none of the nuance that this video captured, or acknowledgment of the way that atheistic practices vary in in other cultures. This is what a nuanced video on the subject should be like. When it comes to religious topics, I think you're one of the best people on RU-vid. I consistently enjoy watching the videos you release, even the less successful ones. I'm glad to hear you're doubling down!
I would call myself a naturalist atheistic person, although i don't consider it as my identity. I did not think this video would be as interesting as it was! Very well done
I don't really consider "not believing in a god" to be part of my identity any more than "not believing in the tooth fairy". If anything, I'd consider myself a rationalist.
I love the point about atheistic people and underrepresentation in atheist spaces of marginalized groups. I had never thought much about atheist Native Americans, but I would be very curious to hear about the experiences of atheists in other groups that traditionally aren't considered.
I'm an agnostic atheist, I'm open to the idea of either deism or pantheism, but of course irrefutable evidence is what I need. even if it is proven, would I worship and pray to it or engage in ritualistic activities to it? no. I would just be like, hey nice kudos to the universe 👍 but yeah, props to dozens of cultures and their idea or concept of god or their own deity. I honestly like the idea of it? but I don't necessarily believe in it as a tangible being, like I treat it as something cool as in like a comic book character or an anime character, I would ravel in their lore, design, feats, and it just seems so grand and marvelous. and not gonna lie, faith or belief is needed in society, despite with its cons and being treated as a necessary evil. it helps people cope, have this sense of security, comfort, peace, love, community, etc. what I'm against is the reverse effects of religion, like they advertise love, peace, unity, and more, but the reverse would happen like hate, war, divide, discrimination, etc.
You and your teaching is invaluable. I wish I could support financially but I want to thank you for all you do! This video was especially important to me and can’t express that enough!
In 1972 the US Navy wanted a religious affiliation to stamp into my metal "dog tags". Closest option was Buddhist. Subsequently, I embraced Japanese Zen and Taoism as a metaphor for my deep Atheism.
Hi Andrew, I've been following your videos for a while, and as an atheist who is interested in religions, I really enjoy them. This video is great as well, I've learned so much and I cannot wait for the other episodes
This is such a great episode, Andrew! I was discussing Atheism with my Course members and have now sent them your video, as it brilliantly covers the research on the topic. You also reference Chris Cotter, a colleague of mine. We've both been committee members of the British Association for the Study of Religions. He's a dedicated scholar.
I think I am "definitionally" atheist. But I am more interested in the things and values that people have in common. I wish to focus on those aspects of the human experience. And this channel helps me to that end.
Well,as an atheist myself, all I can say is…well put! But as you explain, what does atheism mean? For me personally, I do not believe in a God, gods, deity, deities, supernatural beings/events, or spiritu…spiritua….ok. When I look up at the night sky or walk amongst the hoodoos of Bryce Canyon, I have a spiritual experience. There is something so very numinous about the world around us that just triggers the chemicals in my brain. I cannot tie that to any “higher power”, so I guess I’m a materialistic naturalist?? And I greatly dislike any atheist group I’ve tried to be apart of because they are no better than many of the church’s I’ve attended; problematic hierarchies and in group-out group haven’t been solved by a lack of a belief. So thank you for taking the time to talk about the complexity about “atheism”.
Most of the western atheist groups are just evangelical churches with the serial numbers filed off. If you point this out and the people don't get angry with you it's probably a good one.
I use the term “naturalistic pantheism”, basically you don't really believe in a god or anything supernatural in any meaningful sense but you think the universe is beautiful and the only way to properly describe it is as “divine”. It's a lot like interpreting a work of fiction, your interpretation isn't real in any meaningful sense, it's just the meaning you chose to derive from what's written on the page, in the same way naturalistic pantheism is an interpretation of the universe, the interpretation isn't real but you chose to adopt it because it is meaningful to you.
As an atheist, I may have a bias toward like-minded people, but I've found that most other atheists I've encountered in person and online communities (those who have a position, at least) are methodological naturalists rather than purely philosophical naturalists, and are thus technically agnostic by definition. I think this is a distinction that Dawkins makes in his writing as well.
The concept of god came into human consciousness when humans started thinking they are the center of the whole universe and everything is happening for them.While if the entire human race gets wiped out from the face of earth the universe will have that much effect as much as the sun has when a firefly dies. ~ V D Savarkar
Close but I think there are missing some steps: first it was simply an explaination for (natural) events and after that we thought we could influence it by sacrifice, worship, scaring it away etc.
I think you are mistaken here. It is a product of a teleological worldview that saw the universe as governed by intentionality and directed towards a goal. It is a relatively old worldview that we can see not just in monotheism, but also in polytheism and animism. The alternative to it is the mechanical worldview that saw the world as governed by physical forces. It is a relatively young worldview and was conceived of by ancient atomists.
I call myself agnostic. I have never been to church, but I also have never felt a need for a ritual or mass gathering of any kind. I'm fine on my own, keeping my personal thoughts to myself and letting others be. I look forward to this series! 😊
I really feel like we need two definitions of karma, because there are two definitions. The traditional supernatural definition is something an atheist wouldn't believe in, but many Buddhists (both secular and non-secular) understand karma as simply being the laws of cause and effect, no different from gravity and relativity. The reason secular karma is different from general cause and effect is because it changes the perspective of a single actor in the world experiencing cause and effect to putting the perspective as that entire world itself.
I watch your videos all the time. I am a white woman late 30's, a mom, & identify as an atheist, BUT I add the "a textbook" atheist 😂 Explaining I don't believe in god, gods, or "a higher power".
I have since I was an early teen identified as an atheist. But also as agnostic. I get genuinly annoyed when people ask "Are you an atheist or an agnostic?" As if they're mutually exclusive position somehow. Being agnostic, to me, simply means you acknowledge that you don't know for certain, and nobody knows for certain.
I've been frustrated with the terminology for some time, in the sense that I expect my philosophical skepticism would be taken for atheism following, which someone would then call it "dis-belief" or a certainty that there cannot be any god. And, of course, that's a contradiction to the uncertainty of skepticism. Thank you for this long explanation. Your detached/unbiased view is greatly appreciated. It's the thing that I love so much about your channel.
The problem boils down to what counts as a 'god.' Atheism is hard to define because monotheism came around and got really picky with which supernatural beings count as 'gods.' You can pray to saints, you can call on angels for aid, you can rebuke demons and devils. They are, for all purposes, gods that don't qualify as gods just cuz. So atheism, by trying to define itself as a rejection of "gods" runs into the exact same problem.
Not really..? Plenty of things get very ill defined if you go looking for every nook and cranny, but the main examples are still clear cut. "Torture" is also pretty vaguely defined, but it's not hard to be against torture, specially considering the more widespread examples. Hell, and christianity is a terrible example for your point, since it's beliefs all trace a direct link between god and these minor divinities. Things like shinto spirits, bodhisattvas or kupua would be better suited for your point, since they exist independently. Bodhisattvas are a bit more complicated, tho.
Fellow atheist myself, thank you for doing a video on atheism. I think a good follow up would be a video about who was the first atheist. It’s a surprisingly difficult question to answer
15:28 I know the guy in the brown jacket. That's David Fitzgerald! I used to be apart of the atheist community in San Francisco. I'm Pagan now and I've since moved to Texas. Haven't talked to him in person in over 10 years. We're still Facebook friends. Didn't think I'd see him on RU-vid. Crazy how small the world is 😂
Did you expect atheists to be less atheistic with regards to islam than they are to christianity and judaism? And no, it is not racist to dislike islam.
@@frederik5964 Humans are humans. Extremely few are above the majority. The wrest are not to be given chances in the next life. Not without judgment. In other words, people say they self identify until real life / reality puts them in their place. Never claime to follow a God when thyn never tried to walk in their ways to begin with.
@DonHavjuan Hardly... It's been over one eternity of time for me. Humans are still as they were since their creation. I'm not religious. The human race is a far cry of what they should have been by now. It's disappointing but expected. What?... Another 1,000 years of human meaningless strife as the Earth ticks on the clock. Another 10,000 years as humans waste time on nothing real but throw away the future of their own children per generation. Another iteration of their creation, just to see a species to follow the same Fate as their predecessors. Mortal... I don't fault Mankind. I forgive their existence, but the judgment is not mine to make. And inevitably, this world won't exist where I am. (I gave my love and my trust to Humanity three times before. Not anymore. No longer, anymore. Indifference is all I feel toward the human race. Beyond my one obligation to this World? I will be patient with Mankind until the final era of their being. When they cease to exist, their souls will not be given the same mercy as I gave to them in life.) There will come a time where I will no longer be as benevolent toward Humanity. It is a shame that other forces toy with this species. Walk in enlightenment or with thyn religion... ... ... Less humanity becomes the fall. Over and over again.
On the matter of women in Atheism, a lot of the loudest voices in the atheist community were also very anti-feminist. That surely did not create a welcoming environment for women.
You're conflating being anti-feminist with being anti-women. Feminism is an ideology - often one grounded in as much fairytale nonsense as religion. Everything I ever saw was a movement that welcomed & respected women, and of course advocated for greater secularity, and against religion, for the greater equality and freedom it would bring women. Second, the Atheist movement should have been more hostile to Feminism, considering that it was feminism that caused the schism in the movement which caused its collapse. Feminists came into the movement and tried to make it about their particular brand of feminism, rather than about atheism, scepticism, science, or secularity. I knew just how damaged and dead the movement was when I saw someone say "I would rather hang out with someone religious who shares my politics, than with atheists", showing just what their presence in the movement had always been about.
@@thealmightyaku-4153 The activist atheist movement is mostly male academics so it has a very strong chauvinist streak to it. Kind of like claiming that feminism is a fairytale nonsense ideology religion....
@@thealmightyaku-4153 Really? Remember how Dawkins creeped out on Watson in an elevator? You must not have been looking very carefully if you saw a movement that welcomed and respected women. Your attitude towards feminism is evidence of that. You sound like the type of person who got upset over the "man vs bear" question.
@@Alverant What on earth are you talking about? That's not what happened. Rebecca Watson apparently got asked back to some random guy's room (no one knows who) for coffee at an atheist conference, while they were in an elevator. Then made out like that was somehow the wrong thing to do - which is absurd. Unless you think a guy asking a girl out is somehow a bad thing. Other _women_ were the ones to initially tell her she was being ridiculous. Dawkins responded with the 'Dear Muslima' letter, by basically saying "Well, muslim girls, you'd best wait a little while before we can help you get out from under the horrific religious regimes you live in - a sheltered Western girl got uncomfortable in an elevator." I'm paraphrasing, of course. The movement eventually split between people, men & women, backing Watson and her ilk, especially Jen McCreight, who were always more concerned about turning the Atheist movement into a vehicle for their political stances (namely their brand of feminism, the "Atheism+" nonsense) - & the other side, also men & women, who realised that trying to tie down a movement about scepticism & secularism into a highly political and specific ideology, that abandoned intellectual scepticism & questioning with strict (& often apparently unquestionable) moralistic takes, was ridiculous. The Atheism+ camp started basically lying and slandering the other side, & the resulting infighting destroyed the movement. But in essence you had one side who were concerned about the actual original idea - freeing people of religion, & shoring up civilisation against the religious forces dedicated to rolling back secularism and liberal democracy (such movements are poised with Project 2025 to take power in the US) - & the other camp who tried to turn the New Atheist movement into an advocacy group for their pet ideas. The 'sexism' the Atheism+ camp complained of was nothing more than pointing out how feminist theories & ideas are ridiculous and don't stand up to scrutiny - which is true. They basically demanded that the scepticism the movement centred itself around never ever be applied to feminism or any of their other favourite ideas. They tried to make out that the other side were somehow allied with outright Christian fundamentalists & the like, the early MRA movement & incels & such, but there was never a single drop of truth to it. They lied & lied & lied, believed their own lies & then told more. They killed the Atheist movement back then.
@@Alverant And yeah, I was upset about the 'man vs. bear' thing - I was disappointed by how apparently stupid people are, & just how low our conversations as a society have fallen.
Back in the Dinosaur-days of Google-plus (remember that, anyone?) I joined an athiest discussion group. One of the founders of the group explained that she was born in India and goes back there to visit family frequently and therefore had to remain anonymous for fear for her life.
