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What is bromide drag? Is it all bad or can I use it somehow? 

Shoot On Film -- by Ari Jaaksi
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Bromide is a non-metal that emerges between the developed film and the developer. I explain what it means and show you how I use it, not only avoid it.
Why I don't shoot 35: • I don't shoot 35mm fil...
More about stand development: • How to develop your fi...

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21 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 61   
@luxseven1
@luxseven1 Год назад
Of course, I recognize somebody in your comments, the guy in the gallery with his nose only inches away from the photo, analyzing the grain (this must be HP5), the bromide drag, making his guess on the photographic paper (is that an art print on Bütten or what?), suspecting what lens has been used through the type of vignetting in that wide angle shot, estimating the stand development time to one hour (at least) and finally, stepping back a few feet and discovering, well, the picture is very nice, too. Merry Christmas Ari, and come back with more of this stuff!
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
😅. Yeah. If the photo is meaningless no amount of bromide can fix it.
@ImperfectPhotography
@ImperfectPhotography Год назад
Ari, that’s very interesting. I don’t use Strand development much, but now I feel a mini experiment coming on! Thanks for sharing!
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
Thanks thanks. And thanks for watching!!!
@stephensmith8325
@stephensmith8325 Год назад
Of course, a film from your Hasselblad or Rolleiflex or other camera that transports the film vertically and not horizontally, would have the ghosts and auras behind or in front of the subjects, kind of walking along instead of hovering over or below. Wishing you a peaceful and contemplative 4th Advent Sunday!
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
Indeed. But then you have to compose that in mind 😊
@robertbuck6651
@robertbuck6651 Год назад
That was fun. Thanks Ari. Very playful explanation of the topic. Love your videos, very informative, enjoyable.
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
Thanks thanks. And thanks for watching!
@tumaprints
@tumaprints Год назад
Very interesting effects. Time to break out the Holga again!
@mkshffr4936
@mkshffr4936 Год назад
Fascinating. Thank you.
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
Thanks for watching this fairly geeky and introvert video :-)
@Selkirkwater
@Selkirkwater Год назад
Always interesting, Ari! Thank you for sharing your creativity.
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
Thanks for watching!
@baggerrider8073
@baggerrider8073 Год назад
Your video has intrigued me Ari. Now I need to take out my Holga negatives and look for the bromide drag!
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
😊. One more thing to worry about.
@ejorbe
@ejorbe Год назад
That is very interesting. I have seen that “effect” before, but never knew it was in the development process nor did I know what it was called or what caused it. Thanks for the information!
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
Thanks for watching!!
@seandwyer3598
@seandwyer3598 Год назад
Thanks for this idea. I had never considered using this as an intentional effect. Now if I can only remember where my images are relative to loading reels!
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
😊 yeah, one of those little things to pay attention to
@flyingo
@flyingo Год назад
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and opinions! I really enjoy them all! Does this bromide drag exist with all developing chemicals identically? (in stand development), or is it more active, or less active in different developers?
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
That is a good question. To my understanding bromide is on film, so it should happen with all developers. But I do not know!!!!
@davidletz9123
@davidletz9123 Год назад
That effect makes your subjects look as if they are being beamed up to the USS Enterprise.
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
But that’s good? Right?
@mike747436
@mike747436 Год назад
Thanks Ari, very interesting.
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
:-) Not the most significant thing in the world, but a neat little trick! Thanks for watching.
@markusklein6309
@markusklein6309 Год назад
Fairly interesting, indeed!
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
Thanks. And thanks for watching!
@williamshaffer9216
@williamshaffer9216 Год назад
I always enjoy your videos but this one was way above me! Were you using HP5+ Film? It looked so grainy. I like grain, so that was not a complaint.
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
yes. HP5+. Stand development even increases grain.
@simonarmstrong3125
@simonarmstrong3125 Год назад
As Hagrid might say, you’re a wizard now Ari. 😉 🧙‍♀️ 👍
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
I am!
@jasonl800
@jasonl800 Год назад
I had a similar problem developing film from my Rolleicord normally in a Rondinax 60. The continuous rotation caused these streaks on nearly every film I tried. Shame, as I liked the Rondinax. Back to the Paterson tank after that. Never thought to try to use it creatively, though. Thanks!
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
If you have these during continuous rotation it is actually a slightly different effect. It’s then the movement of the developer that causes the stripes, not a falling bromide. But looks the same!
@jasonl800
@jasonl800 Год назад
@@ShootOnFilm True - but very similar effect. Tried different agitation methods but still got noticeable steaks on most films.
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
@@jasonl800 Yeah, I know what you mean. 🙂
@borderlands6606
@borderlands6606 Год назад
To add further complication, if you shoot film with sprocket holes into bright sunlight it can bounce around the anti-halation layer, creating a glow much like bromide drag. With stand development I find problems if the temperature diverges greatly from the initial 68F/20C over the duration of development. This manifests as exaggerated grain and lack of contrast.
@danncorbit3623
@danncorbit3623 Год назад
I liked the bromide streaks in some of the pictures and not as much in others. I liked it more when there was a single dominant streak and less when there were several. I don't know why.
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
Yeah, the strikes are kinda gimmicky. But what I really like in my example pic is the bright white line between water and land.
@paulgough4302
@paulgough4302 Год назад
Hi Ari, Hope you avoid an 'auto de fe' for your witchcraft and sorcery. Another exemplary explanation of an artefact left by "incorrect" processing that could be used to artistic advantage by those who understand it. Regards Paul Gough
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
I needed to google auto de fe. No, that is not what I'm thinking of. More rabbits and high hats kinda stuff.
@ChrisConner1
@ChrisConner1 Год назад
When are we going to see you talk about Caffenol?
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
Haa -- :-) I'm a heavy coffee drinker, so .... maybe ....
@kdj.imagery4317
@kdj.imagery4317 Год назад
I don't develop my own film but this is very interesting. I wander if it can be controlled in development or is it like oil/water it just wanders where it wants?
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
It can be controlled -- to an extent. It always falls down with gravity. If you rotate the tank every now and then, then the liquid gets mixed and you wont get it -- if that's what you want.
@lewiya7439
@lewiya7439 Год назад
Shoot a roll of hp5 in a holga pan today. I was on a mountain with very strong fog. I believe I could get a nice gradient into the fog/sky with bromide drag. Film needs to be upside down for that which means it has to be like it was in the camera. Optics are confusing XD
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
Oh they are. And then loading the reel into a tank in dark ….
@206coconutz
@206coconutz Год назад
Fascinating. One more thing to keep in mind with roll film and stand development. I’m curious what effect it would have on sheet film if one were to tray develop using stand development. Any? Different?
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
Should be the same. It is same material just cut differently
@206coconutz
@206coconutz Год назад
@@ShootOnFilm So if gravity is in-play with this ‘sorcery’, how might bromide act since film in a tray is horizontal/face up? Would it spread unpredictably? Pool and perhaps expand a bit in all directions?
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
@@206coconutz I depends on what kind of tank you have. This is what I use: cinestillfilm.com/products/sp-445-4x5-developing-tank-with-two-holders In a tray, film flying flat, this effect would propably be not noticeable. An interesting question, though :-)
@olystad
@olystad Год назад
Means.. Normal developing time + normal agitation = No bromide drag 😊
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
😊 did you watch the video?
@olystad
@olystad Год назад
@@ShootOnFilm Have to admit, that I did`nt watch the full length. ( I normally do 🙂) What I mean is that You do not get bromide-drag if You develop in normal time, not using stand developing. Or is it wrong?
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
@@olystad No, but I explain that and more. Also, the whole idea of the video was how to get it MORE not LESS and how to use it :-)
@robhosailor
@robhosailor Год назад
Ghosts of film photography - analoghosts 😜
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
😊
@SilntObsvr
@SilntObsvr Год назад
I see two potential flaws in your reasoning about exposure/development vs. bromide. First, that's a Holga negative, so we might expect some optical vignetting (i.e. underexposed corners), and second, most of us don't pay much attention to the orientation of the film as we load it into the developing reel -- which would be critical to getting an intentional benefit from bromide drag on medium format negatives. We can *record* the orientation of the film as we take it out of the tank much more readily than we can control it as it goes into the tank -- and of course some cameras feed left to right, others right to left, yet others bottom to top or top to bottom (can't think of any examples of the last immediately, but can't say there are none). All of this affects what direction bromide from heavily exposed areas drags. Beyond that, I'm used to controlling what's light and dark with exposure, and sometimes how much lighter or darker by developing more or less -- but there isn't any actual *control* in letting chemistry decide based on how much of the film was exposed how heavily, where it will do how much work. I prefer to agitate "normally" (more or less, I've used as little as every 3rd minute in my compensating process), so everything on the film gets the same development; then I don't have to worry about what orientation the film had in the camera or has going into the tank -- or whether I have sprockets or not (because I *do* shoot 35 mm, mainly because of the compactness of the cameras relative to medium format). That said, there's something else you can do with high dilution developer: push without pushing. I've used Parodinal (homebrew Rodinal work-alike) at 1:50 dilution, developed to near twice the "normal" time for that dilution with a given film and agitate five inversions every third minute to get increased film speed (Rodinal derivatives usually lose 2/3 stop; I get up to a full stop increase instead) with normal contrast, i.e. no "pushed' look and "normal" (for Rodinal) grain. Fomapan 400 at EI 800 actually looks good in this process. ;)
@ShootOnFilm
@ShootOnFilm Год назад
Oh yes it does. But it’s pretty easy to follow I all the way to the tank.
@sterioma
@sterioma Год назад
What is you time for Fomapan 400 pushed in Rodinal? I have just bought 3 rolls for my Holga and there is not a lot of light in Southern England these days.
@SilntObsvr
@SilntObsvr Год назад
@@sterioma Unfortunately, my online dev chart was deleted several years ago when my old internet provider stopped hosting personal pages. What I recall is I gave 19 minutes at 1:50, with agitation ever 3 minutes. This was for EI 400, but gave shadow detail like a real ISO 400 film instead of the 200-250 often reported for Fomapan. I got the shadow condition of a heavy push, but with normal contrast. To push further to 1600, you'd add 20% for each stop, so 19 minutes * 1.44 = ~27:30 for EI 1600 with 3 minute agitation cycle.
@SilntObsvr
@SilntObsvr Год назад
@@sterioma Got my computer running again -- my time for Fomapan 400 at box speed in Parodinal 1:50 was 16:30 with five inversions every third minute. With 20% increase for each stop push, that would then be 1.2 x 1.2 x 16.5 = 23:45 to give EI 1600.
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