As a follow up a few people asked about fading due to light and whether it is a part of the standard. There is a test that addresses light resistance which I would have liked to test, as it is very relevant to most fountain pen users. Unfortunately due to limitations I was not able to do this test. Firstly the procedure is outlines in ISO standard 14145-1 which by itself costs $90 AUD, and although I was able to get a copy of it, the test requires a xenotest or equivalent, a procedure that by itself would cost many hundreds of dollars. If you are looking at the most comparable test to sunlight that I performed in the video, I would say that the bleach test would be the most comparable. Sunlight acts as a bleach and produces similar outcomes, just much slower, and though the use of different mechanisms. Cheers everyone.
This could be an interesting series for you to do! I'd be interested in seeing Noodlers vs Sailor Carbon Black. Carbon black is my default for document signing.
This is such an interesting video! I appreciate the work and thought put into this. My two concerns would be water and sunlight. I have full up afternoon sun on my balcony and when I spill ink on the floor, if I can't get it out, I don't worry because the sun will bleach it out--on about ALL inks except Platinum Sepia--I think there is kryptonite in that ink or something...
😂 - Kryptonite! I spilled (actually, accidentally shot the ink out of my pen) a blue ink on my new Mandalorian t-shirt last summer. The ink wouldn’t wash out and bleaching it would have ruined the t-shirt. I wore it in the pool a few times, and the chlorine gently bleached it out. Compared to the same shirt my son had, there was no noticeable bleaching of the shirt as a whole. I cannot remember which ink it was.
`Thank you for this video. I just slogged through a very lengthy chatty video which compared these inks among others. Your video is short, precise, easy to follow and conclusive. Brilliant. Well done!
As far as I can tell, while the Noodler’s Black was undoubtedly invincible, Montblanc Permanent Black did prove that Nathan Tardiff’s influence has finally begun to show on corporate inkmakers - I might be mistaken, but I did not notice any tonic shift in its colour; the ink that ran across the strip was apparently the excess ink that does not penetrate the cellulose as readily as Noodler’s Black does, however long you do allow it to bond in peace. An addendum to a printed note I had pinned up on a largely sunlit wall (facing a wide sun facing window) of a room in my erstwhile house has in all these four years not shown any noticeable shift or grey shading. On non-absorbent Triomphe notepads from the days I had switched to MBPB from Perle Noire four years ago, the writing does not appear to have as of yet shown any sign of exhibiting any grey shading on lighter strokes or shifting to a lighter hue whatsoever, while the Perle Noire has begun to show (tweeny) marks of ageing. So those who go by the results of the bleach test here as a specimen of its UV resistance, rest assured that both the Noodler’s one and the Montblanc one are equally durable. It is essential to bear in mind because in not every country do we find Noodler’s more readily or more inexpensively than we find Montblanc’s regular duo of permanent inks.
@@bhoola123 We could argue over how the value propositions prices entail are subject to the subjective reconstruction that makes you and I prefer one of the either. The pandemic has, however, taught, or I believe has taught, our collective consciousness that if we do feel ourselves lucky, as you evidently do, we indeed are lucky, are human enough for luck. The gilded luck you find a peer in, my gilded luck may not prefer to be a peer of - but neither is never not a joy.
Thank your for an interesting video. I had assumed that all inks that didn't claim to be "washable" were permanent - at least to plain water. I use Parker Quink and discovered by mishap this past week that a single drop of water can obliterate a word or two and smudge the words around them. I wrote to Parker to ask about this and they don't claim that any of their inks stand up to water - so I'm older and wiser now.
Whether or not they conform to ISO standards, all inks should include descriptive ratings for characteristics like Light-fastness (1-3), Water-resistance (1-3), FP safe, Opacity?, Sheen, Shading, etc. Most paints do this. I use Rapidograph ink in my brush pens, and Parker Quink mostly for fountain pens (most available in my area). It washes a bit, but is otherwise permanent. I don't really trust Noodler, but I'll take your word for it. I suppose corrosiveness and 'what happens if the ink dries out in a pen' are other questions.
Very nice presentation. Wait... ISO actually CHARGES to even tell you what its standard entails??? HAHAHA... the actual term I think for inks, papers, adhesives etc. is "archival" which is a very big concern in the art world. ISO however has no relationship to archival quality anything, to my knowledge. There seems actually no set standard in such things. Certainly, any organization which charges to even list their standards is not an organization who really cares that the standard is relevant or useful as a "standard"
Since I didn't see anyone mention it, I also have the 14145-2 standard and if you look at the definition of what it takes to pass the certification requirements, then both the Noodler's and the Montlbanc would have passed if the tests that you conducted were up to spec (I think that the procedures you demonstrated here weren't accurate to the spec, but I understand you were obfuscating things). You mention the MB as failing certification, but I don't think that is true, and based on your video evidence, I would have said that the MB passed these tests according to the standard.
Good info, thanks. Personally my only concern is fading, i.e. when you put a drawing on the wall, and maybe sunlight hits it. Is that part of the ISO standard? BTAIM, any info you could share on NON-fading or slow to fade inks is greatly appreciated (barring contrary info, I now assume all inks fade). I've got a test going on my sunny window sill, and was astonished when Baystate Blue started fading the first amongst a dozen colors. What a shame.
Bleach, ammonia, or UV light are Baystate Blue's weaknesses. You can speed up your test by buying a UV light. Make sure it emits UVA, UVB, and UVC wavelengths.
No ink can turn into a watercolor painting because the first one is made of dyes, the second of pigments which are not water soluble. Yes, I am fun at parties. xD
Just because most fountain pen inks are dye based doesn't mean there aren't pigmented ones, Sailor offer some pigment inks for example as do R&K and Faber Castell iirc.
@@herbstwerk They are not exceptions, they only confirm the rule because the problem still remain. In fact in all those kind of inks you are advised to periodically clean your FP, guess why? Still not soluble. And to your knowledge, neither FC or Graf von FC offer pigmented inks in their FP range, only in their markers and such. Perhaps you meant Platinum.
Interesting test. I think the permanence of ink would matter only for writing documents and not for ordinary writing. ( And ink cannot be considered apart from the quality of the paper.) We are not writing documents all the time. Apart from water, direct exposure to sunlight certainly affects. The notes I took in college here In India are still in tact- the writing has not faded. And I used a very ordinary brand of ink- named "Bril" which still exists! This is available at 35 cents per 60 ml in a glass bottle. I have no use for MB or Noodlers or others which sell at fancy prices in India. There are important considerations other than permanence. I think the whole business of permanence of ink smacks of a scam.
Well if permanent ink is a scam then Leonardo da Vinci fell for it because he used Iron Gall ink to do his drawings, and they've lasted since the 15th Century. Iron Gall Inks are used for Registrar's Inks that must be used to complete handwritten Birth, Marriage, and Death Certificates in the UK. So, tradition and history shows that governments like permanence in their handwritten documents. So, no it's not a scam.
@@nanjappa42 That's great but if what you write is considered legal documentation you'll want to know that whatever you write will not be destroyed by liquids or exposure. When your professional credentials are on the line and one day might need to be defended by some notes you wrote 10 years ago, which some careless person spilt water over, suddenly those "fancy prices" seem quite cheap by comparison.
Very good work. Thank you for the effort and expense you put into this practical presentation. Your conclusions are fair and spot on. (See what I did there with "spot on"? ) Thanks again!!
Wait... they charge to even know what the "standard" actually is?? HAHAHA... I appreciate this, interesting! Note though that the term in the art world is "archival" and there is NO actual standard in "archival" quality inks... to my knowledge ISO has nothing substantial to say about that.
