Boy did you make this at the right time for me. I have started my first all grape wine and started at the middle of my primary. I have tested the wine twice over the last month and it is sitting at .75 on the Accuvin test kit. I guess more patients by me is needed. Allot of good information here. Thank you
I am making my first batch of wine after owning a vineyard for six years (I mostly sell the grapes). According to your video "Making Red Wine from Grapes - Part 1' you added malolactic acid two days before pressing. Hopefully I get this all right! I created a playlist of the attempt if anyone is interested...
I wish you could have some one like me who doesn't know anything and is a complete beginner sitting with you and then asking you questions when they don't understand something also showing them samples. Just an idea love your videos and I continue to watch trying to understand some these more difficult topics thanks
Usually you can add ML bacteria to your red wine when the fermentation is over. You add the ML bacteria to your fermented wine after the grape marc is pressed. It is very important that you don’t add sulfur dioxide to your fresh wine since Ml bacteria only works when the free sulfur levels are under 30ppm=30mg/l When ML fermentation is over about in a week or 2 (you know its ended when theres no more CO2 produced) you rack your wine from lees and add sulfur dioxide and set the free sulfur level to your desired level depending on your wine type. In white wines you add ML bacteria to your wine after the fermentation is over and is racked from the lees. ML fermentation (sometimes) could happen naturally at any time if Ml bacteria is present in your wine and the free sulfur dioxide level is under 30ppm (although you shouldn’t keep your sulfur dioxide level low just because you are waiting for ML fermentation to happen naturally. Sulfur protects your wine from oxidation and is very important that you adjust the sulfur level on a regular basis. You can do ML fermentation but it is not necessarily important to put your wine through this process and risk oxidation If the ph level in your wine is low like 3-3,3 it means that your wine is very acidic and ML could higher your ph since malic acid transforms to lactic acid which is a weaker acid but the ph level shouldn’t exceed 3,5-3,6 since higher ph level compromises wine stabilty. You can add all kinds of things to your wine but it doesn’t mean you should. Many wineries are going back to the old fashioned ways because they realise that the best wines are made with natural methods and not by poking your wine with all kinds of stuff and machines. Hope this helps love and kisses from Hungary
Just a side note, I'm pretty sure the raise in pH in malolactic fermentation is due to the different pKa values of malo and lactic acids. The CO2 gasses off and is in equilibrium with the environment according to Henry's law.
Is it possible to use any particular or specific home ingredients that one might have at the back of a cupboard to kick off MLF ? And when do you start SAFFD before or after pressing? Stands for smack a fruit fly day.
Great videos and great clarity. I like that you are not afraid to blend a good dose of fact with strong opinion which is often what people really need from an honest advisor. So I have some difficulty with the MLF question. I’ve been making a Chambourcin for several years from local sourced grapes. My grower uses strictly the 71b yeast and does not add MLF culture. I have done both ways. The grape is very acidic but I do think the butter does not complement it well. Any way my real issue has to do with back sweetening and MLF. I have a cabernet that I did a second fermentation on and was planning on sweetening to make a “holiday wine” but then I read that there is a significant risk of awakening a fermentation in the bottle if you have done MLF. any advice on that?
This is probably why it is so hard to make wine that’s good from wild mustang grapes. I suspect that they necessitate a good amount of malolactic fermentation, but I definitely got that sour milk character when I tried last year
Please clarify: you added KMBS after you pressed but then in the video you show adding the MLF bacteria but in the comments you’re saying not to add after sulfuting. I’m about to press. Please clarify the order🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I'm a rookie in the home wine making craft. I have some questions about MLF. Is there a post primary fermentation window for trying to start malolactic fermentation? In other words, is there some period of time after primary when malolactic fermentation should not be attempted? I have a couple one gallon batches of pineapple and apple wine that have been racked after primary and have been sitting since for about 4 weeks. Has too much time gone by or can MLF be kicked off anytime? Also, suppose I've conditioned, say with additional fruit, how will this impact MLF and should the steps be changed in such cases? I would assume that MLF should be started after conditioning when the fruit has been removed and the batch has been racked.
Do you know of a source for small packets of malolactic bacteria for 1-5 gallon batches of wine? I can only find larger bags of bacteria, that are a bit out of my price range. Thanks!
Interesting to hear about co-innoculation during primary. I'm not there yet in worrying about taste profiles. Did have an apple wine that went through spontaneous MLF - nice, but would rather it hadn't.
I have juice from Lanza vineyards. It's in its initial fermentation. When that's done I want to add a malolactic bacteria. Is it Ok to then follow my same steps of adding my potassium metabisulfate througout the process?
it is always very interesting to listen to your step by step methods. My question is what do you recommend to use to measure the completion of the ML at home?
Hi! My wine fermentation is done, I have transferred the wine to barrels. Added CH16 malolactic bacteria to wine, but please tell me if there is a cold cellar now being winter (44F) this will inhibit malo fermentation for good or the bacteria will self activate when time gets warmer? Did I waste the bacteria by adding it when cold? Thanks a lot! Really appreciate you!
Thanks for the video. I plan to add malolactic culture to my home wine. My syrah is starting with a alcohol level of 16.33 and a PH of 4.09. My Zinfandel is alcohol level of 15.25 and a ph of 3.69. I will add the ML culture, wait a month. Any other recommendations? Thank you
Thank you for this video. I just finished fermenting several varieties of red grapes and was going to try malolactic fermentation on some. Per you’re recommendation, I have CH 16. Last night I racked off the gross lees. I’m wondering if there is any way I can make the wine worse, or mess it up somehow, if I add the culture and something goes wrong. Let’s say, my basement is too cold or maybe my ph is off (I’ve never measured this before). Also, I know in one batch I accidentally added too much so2 (like 100 ppm). I let that batch sit for 36 hours before I pitched my yeast, but I’m assuming I shouldn’t bother adding my culture to this batch?Also, you you add your oak at this stage or after ml is complete? Thank you and I love your videos. They have helped me a great deal.
Superbly detailed! Q: once MLF has completed, I intend to add oak and tannin for aging. In your experience, is it better to do this in the current carboy (with fine lees and MLF residue) or should the wine be racked and transfered to a fresh carboy, pre-loaded with oak and tannin? Many thanks and cheers again for the quality of your content. And that Les Paul I saw a few vids back.
How long does malolactic fermentation take? Can it be months, or rather days or...? My wines have finished primary fermentation for a week or four and I have added malolactic bacteria. It bubbled for a week or two, but now only now and then. The wine tastes pretty apple-sour still, so I am wondering how long it will stay sour?
I'm dealing with a low pH (3.0-3.1) batch of white (chardonel) wine. I started MLF, but it was visible (small bubbles) for only a week (my guess is the pH was too low). I will deal with the pH using pot. bicarb. and cold stabilization. I'm concerned that the MLF may fire back up later, however it looks like pot. sorbate and meta. are the most common ways of preventing MLF. The sorbate can cause off flavors. How would you deal with this once the pH goes up a couple of tenths with the bicarb?
I have a 3 gallons of an Elderberry wine on the go, I've put a bit too much sugar in there.... The potential alcohol content is at 18% It won't run that high as the yeast I'm using has a tolerance of 15% my problem is that my malolactic bacteria also has an alcohol tolerance of 15% so my thought is once my alcohol fermentation has finished my MLF won't start.... Any idea how I can get round this? Cheers!
Would you say MLF is always visible with bubbles? I inoculated twice with CH16, second time with half dose of ACTI ML and OPTI MALO, 3 days between inoculations, and still not seeing anything. SG 0.998, pH 3.6, only 50 ppm K meta added pre AF. Also, I did not store the CH16 in a freezer for 2-3 weeks after receiving (didn’t think you had to), think it went bad?
Hello thankyou for the video Rick, I just tried my red wine and ML didn´t go through (Temp was 18°C). It has been in the carboy for 3 months, is it ok if I add more malolactic bacteria and adjust the temperature (25°C).
What are your thoughts on racking during malolactic fermentation? I have about 1/4 inch of lees on the bottom of the carboy, but there is definitely a lot of activity happening inside. Malolactic fermentation has been happening for about 2 weeks.
I use Opti malo before adding my bacteria. If you are making a red wine you will rack off the gross lees 3 days after pressing off. Opti malo keeps the bacteria in suspension.
Rick, another great video. Thanks. My question: how do you stop the unwanted and sluggish malolactic fermentation once it started ?. I heard: aeration (because the malalactic bacteria is anaerobic, I heard sulfites, I heard low temperatures and filtering) Whats your take on it? Also, I had terrible experience using 71 B both in red and rosé. It left tons of residual sugar (at least the percieved sweetness was thru the roof. And in rosé the 71 B fruit salade was ughh.... absolutely not inviting. in combination with still high acidiy 3,08 it smelled like aspirin. What is your experience using 71 B?
71b is known to produce fruity esters. MAybe that's where you're getting the perceived sweetness. It is the main choice for dark fruit melomels (mead). I've never had it go less than 13-14% abv so I'm sure you aren't getting residual sweetness unless you're starting with a really high og or you are dealing with unhealthy yeast colony. I wouldn't use it for a wine personally.
I’m pretty new to wine I’ve got a vintages. I’ve been using 71B with great success for a local Illinois Chambourcin. It tends to be heavy on acid and the result is I think very nice. Definitely ferments dry to 13.5% I’ve used MLF and not used it and I’m a bit on the fence about adding MLF culture, perhaps the 71b does well enough with the Malic acid.
Agree Malolactic fermentation is critical in some grape varietals. Usually I will not add malolactic bacteria to some of my wine and blend that with the malo fermented wine at the end to perfect the finish. One question; I sometimes have struggled with malo fermentation taking a long time to finish (ie > 1 month), thus continues producing CO2. Whats your recommendation when that occurs?
You can speed up the malolactic fermentation by storing the wine a little warmer for that first month. It is not a problem that it is taking a little longer though. The wine will end up a little buttery as a result since a slower fermentation usually produces a little more diacetyl. You may find that you are getting the bubbles after blending with a non ML wine. Without a pretty heavy dose of SO2 or sterile filtration it will be very difficult to prevent any residual bacteria from eventually going after the newly blended malic acid.
Thank you for the video's! I'm 4 days into my must fermenting of 90% Concord, and 10% Niagara grapes grown in my garden. Today I checked the sugar levels and tasted it. It was quite tart / sour apple tasting which makes me wonder, is this normal at this point? Will it naturally start out very tart, and once the yeast fermentation is mostly over, will the malolactic fermentation start to help balance out the PH on its own? Or is this huge sour/tart flavor profile at this point in the ferment really because I may have picked my grapes a bit early before they sweetened to their peak on the vine? (last year I lost all my grapes to birds so this year I picked slightly earlier about 2 weeks ago in NY).
Hi there, Really appreciate your skills and the effort you take to provide this information. As you read through you will see my rookie status becomes apparent. I wanted to ask a question regarding what to do when the MF process stalls. I started MF in October 2019 went a few months at about 65-75deg then turned off the room heater and let the carboys sit until this week end of March 2020. I confirmed by photo paper testing that MF went about half way. I also found that SO2 levels dropped out even though air locks were maintained with water. I assumed if kept sealed I would not lose SO2. Yikes!! Anyway, what do I do regarding MF and is it okay to bottle so long as I correct my SO2 levels first? Thank you, Tod
It probably has already completed MLF, but if it hasn't, you can start it. You will need to check the free SO2 levels which are most likely about zero unless you have been periodically sulfiting it. If the SO2 has oxidized away, natural malolactic bacteria will often get to work. You can start a strain like CH16 pretty easily up to about 25ppm free SO2. I would definitely check your SO2 and make sure the wine is protected as a top priority at this point though rather than try for a late malolactic fermentation. It is really easy to oxidize a wine when aging in a barrel. The most likely form of oxidation would be ethyl acetate (nail polish remover smell) or acetic acid (vinegar) or acetaldehyde (Sherry smell). If the wine has a lower pH like in the 3.5 range it is a lot more resistant to oxidation and is probably okay. A red wine up around 3.8 in a barrel needs constant monitoring and SO2 maintenance.
Christian Hansen Viniflora CH16 is my go-to culture. If you have a really low pH, CH35 is good. They are easy to get also. Morewine and Presque Isle sell them both.
Yes, it is not a problem. It could be a little tough to get started if you sulfited though. Normally you will ferment, then do MLF, then sulfite. Unless you are not intending MLF, you will sulfite right after primary fermentation.
Yes, you can get a good idea if it is complete. There is always a chance that it may have stalled or not started though. If you keep it above 60 or 65F for a couple months after primary fermentation, it should complete MLF without issue. Especially if you inocculate with a freeze dried bacteria
I'm just starting a 20 gal batch of petite pear and want to do mlf for the first time, I've ordered ml bacteria and nutrient, do you recommend using the nutrient I dont think you talked about it in this video any suggestions would be great. ps love all your videos please keep them coming.. thx
If you have the MLF nutrient, I would use it. Petite Pearl is one of the better red hybrids and doesn't have an insane amount for malic acid like many do. Even still, being a hybrid, I would personally add the bacteria before the end of primary fermentation. The yeast will consume much of the diacetyl produced early on which will keep the buttery smell more on par with a vinifera red.
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel Hi Rick thank you for the response, I added MLB and nutrient to the petite pearl in primary with skins at about 1.006 sg. and just pressed today 3 days later. I'm wondering does pressing that soon after inoculating reduce the chance the mlb has of taking off successfully? I cant help but think I removed the bacteria when I removed and pressed the skins idk,any thoughts would be awsome. and keep the videos coming I look forward to every one.. Thanks Rick.!
You should be okay. I wouldn't necessarily press immediately after adding but a couple days should be enough time for the bacteria to integrate into the liquid portion of your must well. The warm temps of fermentation are also helpful in getting a good colony started.
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel With that said how long would you wait to see evidense of mlf and add sulfite if it doesnt seem to be working? just so I dont let it oxidize. Thanks Rick, I'll stop bugging you with this mlf situation I promise.😊
Thank you, Rick for this video and the info about the malolactic fermentation. my question if the primary fermentation is done in one week @ 73 to 77 FH with ph 3.5 the gravity is 0.990 and the wine set on the lees for 2 week now all together 3 weeks of fermentation. I am thinking to go through malolactic fermentation because the wine taste is on the acid side of a Marlo batch please let me know if still safe to rack and do it or skip it at this point and what brand or name of Malo. yeast can I use in this case. Also in my mind could the wine go to a natural malolactic fermentation without malo. yeast if that true is it safe to keep the SO2 with 10 ppm for 4 -5 weeks before stabilizing the wine. Please advice. Also in all these above when should I de-gas the wine. Highly appreciated your response. Thank you,
Thank you! The wine is still safe to go through MLF if it hasn't already naturally. You will want to get it off the lees if they are too thick also. Just make sure to keep it in topped up carboys at this point since it gets progressively more vulnerable to oxidation as each week passes. I recommend CH16 bacteria.
Most likely a strain of malolactic bacteria is already on the grapes if you are working with fresh grapes. It is harder to prevent it than to encourage it from happening. If you live in the US, you should be able to easily get freeze dried MLB by mail though. Check the video description for a link.
Molecular SO2 suggestions of 0.5 and 0.8 are great for when you intend to inhibit microbial growth but are too high for a pre-MLF addition, since in that case you actually want microbial growth. A 10ppm addition pre MLF will scavenge oxygen and mostly be gone in a few days. If the wine Is a little reductive, I wouldn't add it. The normal guidance would be to do no SO2 at the time of pressing if you are encouraging MLF, but with a high pH must or a must that had an extended maceration on the back end it is worth reducing the dissolved O2 a little bit before ignoring the wine for a while. A wine will readily absorb enough oxygen during pressing to eat up 10ppm. If it is high tannin, the tannin will help out and it might wipe out half that. Keep in mind, even the 0.5 and 0.8 suggestions do not take into account the drop as the SO2 grabs up the dissolved 02 at bottling so you really even then want to over shoot by 10-15ppm free SO2. If you ever measure free SO2, it is almost always significantly lower than the addition was after a month or two. If you are using anything but the freshest potassium metabisulfite it would be certainly lower as well. The intent for these videos are to make things easier for home winemakers. Most of which don't have the means to test Free SO2 but when they do, there are videos for that.
I made a super bone headed mistake! I was supposed to add 10 grams of “Malolactic Bacteria.” Due to a misreading on my conversion app, I accidentally added 80 (to a 10 gallon barrel). At the time of messaging you I just did this. What can I do to correct this? I was thinking racking immediately might help??? Please help!!!
Its not a problem. It is just a waste of good malolactic bacteria. All you are trying to do is add enough that it can get established in the wine, similar to yeast. You could add ten times what you need, but it is just not necessary or economical to do that. When you make a big yeast starter, you are basically doing that but without the additional cost associated. Malolactic bacteria is relatively expensive so you would normally not want to add at that rate.
The Home Winemaking Channel Awesome! I’m 5-7 years out still, more grapes going in this spring, 1/4 acre. Maybe up to 12 acres 5-7 years. I’m all about building American (east coast) wine industry, cooperation is key. GL. Thx for making the videos.
Yes, but check the label and make sure that the ingredients do not include citric acid. It usually will just say "Grape Juice" and maybe tartaric acid and potassium metabisulfite.
Sometimes the wine kits include the addition of potassium sorbate. I have heard to make sure not to add potassium sorbate before the MLF as this will cause very bizarre off-flavours.
It's not a rocket science that this guy sounds like ,wine is made from 1000 of year's crush filter let it sit for long time longer the better ,dig a hole in the ground put it in the ground then dig after year or two or three filter again ,let nature do it instead the since you LL end up with best tasting wine you ever tasted if you can use clay jars for acid absorption,that give use the best taste and ground temperature will do the trick and leave it in the ground , learned this from my grandparents farmer they learned from theirs folk that's how it was done nature vedio guy try this method and let everyone know the difference I just gave you the content for your vedio