What is my ultimate Home Storage Battery - Is it better than a Powerwall or Givenergy? 

We built an off grid farmhouse in South Africa 3 years ago, and after a lot of research and advice went with the same combination. Victron is very robust kit, modular, so it's more expensive but extremely reliable. The pylontech 3.5kw batteries, seem to be very reliable so far, and very flexible because you can expand capacity so easily. I'm running with 2 at the moment, which works well, runs all my appliances and tools, but three would probably ideal to give a bit of extra capacity for cloudy days and match the full supply capacity of the Multiplus 2 to the continuous supply capacity of the battery bank. You need to ensure that you have enough panels to charge them though. The Australian Renewable Energy agency has been running comparative battery tests in a long term study and found them to be one of the most reliable batteries tested, also maintaining an impressive charge capacity over the lifetime. Very happy camper so far. 👍

I have had these batteries for 6 years, they have saved me £1000s over that time. Flexible, upgradable and versatile system. They also contribute to the central heating system as I use heat batteries for the central heating. Using a My Energi Eddie to supply surplus to the heat batteries and a second solar array specifically for just that. In the winter months I would top up with overnight grid electricity at 5p per kWh (soon to be 7.5p). Like you I spent many weeks working out what I really wanted and also what my future needs would be. So I’m glad to see you took the same route as I did some years back. The batteries look better in a dedicated cabinet I have to say, and now I have that they do look more professional, but in the end it’s what they do that gives you pride in bucking the trend of white boxes of dumb non expandable or flexible energy. The future of export of excess electricity , this is really exciting I feel. The grid are playing with timed and on demand balancing from everyday people who can sell their energy for a very healthy KWh price. In time we could in theory make more than we consume, and with the original FIT that I have I already do. Btw I’m no tech chap, I really had to work it all out as no one at the time understood what I was really trying to achieve. Even now companies really don’t understand this very much at all, they only see white boxes and not the larger picture. Keep up the good work.

Finally had two PylonTech 3000s installed last week. Loving the significant reduction in grid usage - now need a couple more. Keep up the good work.

A Eureka video for me. Wandering around this type type of generic video on google and RU-vid without a clue Nigel has given me the laser focus on what I actually need. I immediately reached out to Nigel’s installer who are local to me but Power Different in Norfolk only do commercial installations. They suggested some reliable companies who do domestic. Installs so will be contacting them. Cannot thank Nigel enough for this video which held me spellbound for the entire 44 minutes. A great delivery from a highly trusted source.

A really informative video! I'm also really impressed with your ability to just naturally talk about it unedited, having to contend with constant video edits, is something that I struggle with sometimes!

After watching your video which I found very informative, I did some pricing over here in Sweden on the Pylontech batteries with some shocking results. Buying from Austria and including shipping to me, these came out at a little over £1200 equivalent, while trying to source them here in Sweden came to £1900 equivalent + shipping. Neither as good as the circa £1000 pricing you mentioned in your video, even allowing for inflation over time since your video was posted, but Austria wasn't a terrible difference, unlike the Swedish company who I feel are price gouging. I found the information on Victron and Pylontech both to be extremely useful, thanks for this.

Probably the most useful, information-packed RU-vid advice video on designing your own system, period

I would love wiring schematic of how you have wired your system. I'm about to start this journey and have same system planned

I am on the brink of deciding next steps for a 20kWh battery and your videos help a lot, thank you

Great video. Thanks for going through all that - that's quite a lot to take in, but definitely all worthwhile. I'm starting to look into these as they were also recommended by someone I know (who's also looking to get a whole solar+battery system) and those batteries always worried me because they were so cheap. After your video, I feel a bit better about them and are on my contender's list.

Great long form video - thanks for the detailed walkthrough!

Good points in your prez, that I hadn't thought about. Well done.

I got solar panels in January now I want more batterys and an electric car love these videos have done one on my choice

I'm going through your whole back catalogue Nigel! I've done my research and I'll be getting a Multiplus II 48/5000 with 15kWh of storage, probably Seplos Mason.

An excellent choice of components. Pylontech battery system is easily expandable, I have done it. I was really sold on the fact that they are rack mountable. Not as nice looking as the force series, but I am not installing them in my living room. For clarification, the 50A passthrough is from the network through the MultiPlus including energy from the battery. In a network blackout you will not get 50A because the inverter is 5kVA and can only output ~20A when inverting from battery.

Paralell - yes but you can also seriese them.... Unsupported config but not outside Victron spec... I have and it works great whilst maintaining redundency!

Thanks for the video as always. Raised a whole suite of issues I’ve never considered before. Will follow the commissioning with interest and hope you’ll be jumping for joy when it’s all up and running…

Super detailed update from a cold garage at 07:30am! Thanks for the mention too. Great to hear and understand your decision process and I liked the wants and needs portion. Seems the solution you have chosen ticks all your requirements. Will be great to see how you get on with it.

*Absolutely perfect for what we use . **Generater.Systems** for Our 500wt power station! Love it!!!!*

Looks like such a great setup, well researched and explained! Sounds like you have a great installer, so far the installers I’ve seen will only do the one brand of system that they prefer.

That’s deffo the right way to go making your storage batteries upgradable but also if one module has a problem if can be unplugged till someone can look at it and leave the rest still running. I didn’t realise you could now get a inverters that has a blackout mode a lot has certainly changed since 2014 when I had my solar installed. Can’t wait to move back into the house so i can upgrade it and add more.

I love that 3 years before this you were debating the pros of getting a 6kwh battery, now here you are with a 17.5kwh system! Will check back in 6 months for the 50kwh system review! :-)

The answer to everything as you present it , has been my dilemma... My solution was to cut my system in blocks that each are not enough to run the whole show, but a % of the show. I estimated what the best of one ultimate system would give me all that I could ever want, then I divided that into 4 systems that total the ultimate system. Then I set up 2 of the systems(50% of my ultimate setup)... so, I could feel how that serviced me, then I installed the 3rd one and saw that I may never install the 4th one. That gives me contingency power... if one system blows up, I am not down. All I do is swap a few plugs and keep going. If I need to add later, and technology has improved drastically, I can add the 4th system at that level. Compatibility is not necessary and actually no very possible, unless one buys backwards... not a good idea!

had an installer call today to discuss batteries and they mentioned Givernergy and pylontech. I’d never heard of the latter until this video so that’s given me confidence to hear more about them.

Thanks for this video this is exactly what I want. Modular and expandable

Hi Pal ... Great Vid .... I got so much from this and THANK YOU

Hi Nigel. Great videos. Where did you buy your Pylontech batteries from please? I was looking at the Givenergy system but support seems very poor on the reviews and also from what you have said.

Great Video thanks. May be naive question but why do you need the victron inverter in addition to the inverter you have with the solar panels

Been running lux with pylontech for 2 years now. Lux side is ok but the pylontech batteries seem to be rock solid and no fuss. Looks like a good setup. In some respects I should have done more research and gone victron but only considered them for off grid.

We have a Lux Power AC controller with Pylontech batteries and a 4kw solar array, but we still draw on average about 1kwh per day from the grid, even when the batteries still have ample charge, during the night we are drawing 30-50w from the grid....🤔

The new US5000 Pylontech batteries are going for about £1100 now, available in the UK in a couple of weeks.

I’ve carefully watched a ton of online videos and decided I’m going down the Victron Pylontec route. I have found a company that can design and specify a system and visit site to commission with my installer who has never worked with or been trained on Victron 😎 Thank you for the videos!

Interesting that you have come up with the same mix of battery tech and inverter / control as I have. Ie Pylontech and Victron for many of the reasons you state. My choice of Victron was driven by my installing a solar / victron based system on a boat recently. Victron ticks my boxes

The force L2 is in stock at ITS for next day delivery 5k for 15kw. L1 is wider and lower while L2 is Narrower and taller. To fit all spaces. Modular upto 25kw i believe and then stackable.

Great video. I have three 2.4 kWh Pylontech batteries with SoFar SE3000-sp inverter and predictably need more. I have been reluctant to 'just add one more' because I could find very little from Pylontech saying I could mix battery ages (mine have around 700 cycles). Can you please point me to information on adding batteries the way you have suggested ?

Yes ,, sizing is a tricky one, I need a year of data to see if another battery is right! Alpha 3with 8.7 kw, and 5.2 pv , thinking March to October will be fine but will there be enough sun to charge more battery’s for the 4 bad months … Interesting video thanks

This is exactly the setup we're looking for. The electrician who has worked in our house many times is asking about how G98 paperwork is done. Are you able to point me towards any helpful links please?

I would like to build my own solar system and your presentation will help me and others but I have seen people state that unless you get it MCS certified you will have trouble selling the house. What do you think of this statement? Are there MCS certified engineers that want to help specify the system you want or do you think that they will just want to sell you an off-the-shelf system that they already have setup?

Good update, be interesting to know how it all works out in practice versus the research. Completely agree that understanding how you use energy is vital to specifying the correct system, both in total available storage size and peak discharge. Ideally I'd like to see local control be an option going forward both for data storage and system access.

very informative - we are installing 7kw solar panel system in Sydney- it will be installed on 14tth march- and we are now investigating whether we incorporate a battery system- thanks for this video

Found your channel and I'm devouring it as fast as I can. How is it going after a year? I'm looking into these batteries and inverter.

Very informative, thank you for making this video. It has given me a lot to think about when deciding on the best system to install at my house

Great video, thanks for sharing your knowledge and insight. Quick question on the inverter capacity vs kWp of your panels: I see the former is 4000W (continuous in 25 degrees) and the latter 9.2kWp? Although the inverter is said to cope with a maximum of 9000W, but it won't be continuous would it? Would it mean you can lose some generated power on a hot Summer day due to inverter clipping (9.2kW>4000W)? You may say the excess can be directly stored in the battery so no harm in that; but what if your battery becomes fully charged, and it can not take any more generated power?

Great video Nigel. A few Qs. 1) noise levels of the inverter and battery fans?.. 2) how do you choose the best size for the battery and inverter. 3) the inverter can take ac or dc connected solar. Does this impact agreements with DNO? Slightly confused on rules. A diagram of your setup would be great to see.

nigel a few people i know have had issues with these batteries, check with the company on where your buying them from on the warranty coverage as they can suddenly fail, others have said pylon require the product back to china to do repairs not replace in the event of a problem such as internal battery failure, further to this i have had experience with these packs in the past at work as a workstation ups for a critical local setup. there first gen 1.5kwh was ok but out of the 5 we had but we had 3 failures in a year. it took 6 weeks to get them back in the end the company swapped them for an RS unit. others have had trouble free use, its a real mixed bag. im convinced that it has to do with deep cycle discharge setups overheating the pack bms so I would recommend making sure you don't drop below 10% regularly

Good to hear from someone who understands the importance of being in control of your own data and equipment. The words you didn't use were 'open protocol' and 'free software/open source' (oh, no you did eventually, 34mins in :-). These are the things that guarantee that control. If we have the details of how to talk to a device then we can write our own software and not be dependent on what manufacturers choose to provide. And it doesn't matter if they go bust and fall off the net one day. Far too many providers only give you their proprietary app or 'platform' so stuff becomes useless if they go bust, and you have no control, and their kit only works with other components from the same manufacturer. I too have concluded that the pylontech kit is flexible, compatible, has an open protocol and free software available to do monitoring. I've always had Victron down as 'top quality, but unnecessarily expensive' kit. Sounds like I should take a more serious look at what they provide as we are clearly coming from a very similar point of view. Thanks for the details. Which disconnector/transfer switch did you pick?

Brilliant choices Nigel, the Victron stuff is world class and user programmable unlike the powerwall. The Pylon tech batteries are more reliable and also have better round trip efficiency when compared to the powerwall (Less conversion stages). 100% agree with your choices here well done.

Thanks for the video Nigel. DC to DC batteries and power modules are much, much more efficient than DC to AC batteries as it is much easier to drop/ increase the voltage using a DC/DC inverter, especially on the charge cycle where the inverter converts the PV output to AC and then the AC battery converts that AC power back to DC, so you’re double a double conversion which looses so much power especially on days where it’s sunny then cloudy and back again, your charging/ discharging the AC battery maybe fifty times a day wasting a lot of energy doing the converting. That’s why hybrid inverters with matched batteries are superior. Your old Huawei system had firmware updates approximately every two months, and they will continue to update the Luna battery and power module for the the foreseeable future. I’m delighted you’re experimenting and having fun doing so. I have done all this myself and had the AC coupled batteries too, but I’m now very happy with my 6kW Huawei hybrid inverter, 10kWh Luna batteries and the backup box. The last two firmware updates have given some extra improvements in performance, especially in low light conditions. I understand that you’re a spreadsheet junkie and need your daily fix of statistics, but I prefer to concentrate on just generating more power and am happy with the reporting from the Huawei and MyEnergi apps. And yes, I know that it’s difficult to see all the power the PVs are generating when a large chunk of that power can hide in the batteries, but all is revealed when the batteries are discharged, the app knows what proportion of the charge was generated using the panels and what percentage came from charging at night, I think that’s pretty smart. I’m looking forward to your next update, can up the fantastic analyses.

We've got 3x3.5kWh pylontechs with a victron easy solar gx II. Been rock solid in the over 2 years we've had it. Acts as a UPS too for us. It's a great choice.

Slightly confused - you talked about 50 Amp backup switch. I presume you mean you have 50A capability for normal running but in the event of a power cut you won't get 50A from your inverter. You have 5x3.5= 17.5kWh capacity but what power will your inverter provide? Is that 3.6kW or 15 Amp? The Huawei system you did have could give 5kW or 21 Amp. Other feature choices I suppose?

Thanks for the update. Can you recommend an installer and where did you buy the batteries from?

Hey Nigel, Shouldn't be a need to perform the automation outside of Victron. If you flash VenusOS Large onto your CerboGX it will come with NodeRed.

Hi Nigel, we have had PV panels fro over 10yrs now and are now thinking of adding storage batteries. Current system is 12 panels and a Zappie EV charger. added a year ago when I bought a MG5 EV Exclusive. We have registered an interest with Cambridge & Fenland District Council who have given us a quotes for either a 4.3kw/6.5kw system. This is using the Pylon Tech US200 Plus batteries and a Solis 3.0kw 5G Inverter, from a company called Greenscape. There is only £900 difference between the two battery sizes. Question: Should the Inverter be equal to the battery rating, is a 3Kw Inverter man enough to give the full 90% output from 6.5kw batteries

Would Givenergy batteries work with Victron? Or they have some proprietary communication to BMS etc. I cannot find a cheaper option than 9.5 kWh Givenergy batteries would be nice to connect to Victron. Best of two worlds.

Great video how many can of those scan you fit to your inverter

Thank You for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤

I'm having 4 kw panels installed on a south west facing roof. I also am having the i-boost water heater installed. I don't have an EV at present and have gas heating. I will collect a year's data before deciding what to do next. I'd love to go to electric for heat (potentially expensive but gas servicing and standing charge would be dropped). In order to do this I may need more panels and definitely a battery with decent storage. Your videos are very useful for information - thanks.

Thank you so much for sharing these experiences.

I have had no responses to my enquiries of UK companies when I wanted to ask about batteries. It seems that they are too busy to respond to requests. Curious to see videos like this, that stimulate an interest despite there being no way to enquire further!

Not sure if this question has already been asked amongst the existing 681 comments, but I haven't got the time to read through them all. Do you kindly have a schematic diagram of your built system please to enable the novice like me to be able to buy the same components and build a similar system. Specifically the way everything is connected to the Victron. We will end up with 3 sets of panels like yourself. We already have 10 on the house roof, about to add another 10 on the garage roof and maybe 4 or 5 on the West gable of the house as we regularly get good late afternoon/early evening sun. Thanks in advance

24:05 - Bet you’re glad you went with 5 batteries now with potential blackouts on the way this winter dependent on the madman in Moscow with his finger on the disconnect button.

Wow, excellent video, very informative, have to admit the 19" rack mount batteries have caught my attention because of the flexibility they confer provided, as you have, the inverter side is compatible. I was worried I would have to question some of your ideas early on where you were talking of a small battery option. Then you developed with the inverter solution and as I agree supporting the grid is going to be gaining ground over the older issues of battery longevity. The future is looking, sustainable, green and economically viable. Go Nigel!

Interesting thought Nigel, appreciate you taking the time to share. What is the breaker you are using to ISOLATE or is that in the Victron?, also with that setup will your solar still operate also?

There is a lot of good advice in this vid, but. re trading power. In Australia where I live there is one electricity supplier. To buy a kWh from the grid costs 22c/kWh, if I export a kWh from my solar panels during the day I get 8c/kWh. About a ratio of 3:1. Until this is more equitable I will maximise the usage of power from my solar panels either by using it in the house or directing it into battery storage.

Great and very helpful video Thanks

If you wanted the zappi on the ups side of the inverter you could set the zappi to reduce charging at a specific maximum system current if you put a ct clamp on the output of the inverter

It would be interesting to see how exactly the inverter is wired into the house system. I an gussing the inverter is inbetween the meter and the distribution board? I am looking to do something similar with SOK 48v server batteries but just starting out on this project. I dont have solar just cheaper nightime electric, solar is maybe something for later.

Thank you Nigel.

Love this vid, this is your best one yet purely because I’m looking at these options to so this has come up before I’ve took the plunge, great job 👏🏾

Thanks Nigel, loads of really useful information in here that I keep coming back to! I have a Victron, Home assistant and LiFePo4 off grid system which has worked brilliantly in a off grid capacity since install. I would like to couple it to the house and am wondering how you have configured your setup with change overs and disconnects to be able to continue to run the house if you had to take the Victron out of service? Thanks! Brilliant stuff.

Thanks for the analysis. Would love to see a video on your complete home energy setup at present.

Really interesting video Nigel. You have really done your homework. Definitely got me thinking about a battery system for my new property.

Is your new Battery Lithium-ion or LiFePo4 ?? Can that inverter work in series x2 for more intensive power needs??

Thanks for a thorough but very down to earth journey/review. Your approach/setup is pretty much exactly what I need...charging at cheap rates, allowing for 90% DoD a 17.5Kwh storage system would cover the vast majority of my total daily requirements (15 Kwh and around 2.5Kw peak), and I like your choice of charger/inverter and communications module. Other reviewers have used additional Victron units including shunts, multifunctional display, etc, and they seemed to be overly complex (to me at least). One question/comment - you mentioned at great length the need for granular and customisable data (I'd be the same - I'd want to really understand how the system is performing) but did not go into the same level of detail in terms of what the Victron comms module can/can't provide. Has it met your requirements ?

I've been using Victron kit on my boat for years and the battery sensor is a very useful bit of kit. It overcomes the voltage drop between the controller and the batteries p,us any temperature differences. They are very good on warranties and have replaced stuff for me after the warranty had run out.

Thanks for the video. I’m going through the same process of figuring out everything I need. I like the Victron inverters too and the server rack batteries. Out in the Midwestern United States we use 240v (split phase) well pumps and I also want to be able to use the 240v on demand water heater at the same time. I’ll either go for 2 5kva inverters or possibly 2 10kva Victron inverters to install in a lakefront property to either sell or use as a weekend rental. That’s the plan anyway.

I’ve received a quote for 17 x JA Solar 380W panels, roof mounted, Solis inverter and Pylontech 3.5kw battery. Fitted for £10k. Be interested in your thoughts on such a system and the price. Thank you.

Hi, I am about to have a 8.2kwh solar panels installed and a 15kwh Huawei battery with a 6kwh hibrid inverter from Huawei.. I was not sure if is the right choice as the installer is insisting that I should have only a 10kwh battery to start with but our yearly consumption was 9744kwh also soon we will have an air heath pump installed which is going to add to the load so after watching your video I am confident that I am doing the right thing going for 15kwh battery. What do you think?

Thanks for this info. I was looking at Victron a while ago. Interesting to see you could put 3 Victron's together and have a 3 phase set up

Hi, thanks for your videos. Love your videos and all your experiences and adventures. I’m considering getting Pylontech batteries and charging them purely from off the peak Octopus go tariff. I have a question about inverters. You’ve probably answered it in this video but I don’t understand all of what’s said I’m afraid. If I understand correctly, are you saying that the inverter will only let you pull a maximum amount of kw at any one time (continuous?). So your Victron 48volt 5000 multiplus 2 inverter will only let you use 3.5 kWh hours at any one time. So does that mean if I put two kettles on at once (at 3.5kw), the first kettle will pull from the battery but the second kettle will pull from the grid? If true isn’t that a pain? Why the limit?

Any chance you can share a wiring diagram how you’ve got your system connected up? Thanks.

Thankyou and enjoying your technical information and comparisons .You have change my mind 3 times already .Interesting the the solis inverter delivery is best in low light .I actually live in N.Ireland so plenty of grey days .If I went for the solis can you recommend a battery storage to go along with it .Thankyou

I find this ironic because my brother had (and still has) pylontech and had numerous issues to do with firmware and incompatibility between batteries, replacements, and also control ( he has to flip a physical switch to control something or other) GiveEnergy now seem to be pretty well established so whilst I understand your concerns time seems to have got over most of those plus there is (AUIUI) local as well as internet control of the batteries and inverter.

For once I agree with all your ‘wants’ namely modularity, interchangeablity, ability to control and configure and able to get data out of it.

Thanks for the video but it does raise many questions. What has triggered the anti-GivEnergy sentiment? Has your installer had a significant influence on your opinion? I do share your concern on the speed at which the system detects a change in demand but from what I have seen GivEnergy are keen to engage with system owners and enhance their software. As my GivEnergy system is still on (back) order I am keen to establish the root of your concerns. Why do you see the GivEnergy system as not being easy to expand? I was under the impression it's quite straight forward to add additional inverters and batteries. Is the Victron inverter really worth the significantly higher price and are you not worried that you may find Victron and/or Pylontech support simply blaming each other for any issues that aren't simple to diagnose?

Fantastic video from an extremely intelligent and well researched gentleman. This has helped me a lot.

Hi Nigel I’m thinking of something this myself but It all looks a bit complicated . Is it something the family could understand if anything happens to you down the line or would it be wasted ?

Hi Nigel, great video. Do you have a block schematic of your system? I would love to have a better understanding of how are all the components are all linked together (top level) from power in from grid fuseboxes / solar / victron / batteries and power out to your home. Nice job.

Great Nigel, another great very in-depth review, keep them coming

Wish I'd seen this before I ordered my system. Just had a Solis 3.6kWh hybrid inverter installed with 14x360w Canadian Solar Panels on a south facing roof, plus 2 x Pylontech US3000C batteries. Really happy with it, but with just the two batteries, I'm only getting around 400w discharged when there's high demand. I presume from watching this, if I add another US3000C, it would increase that discharge rate?? I only opted for two thinking that in the winter months, I'd be unlikely to fill it all, but even on cloudy days, the Solis inverter is working really well.

Great video - love all the exact informations needed by many however can you let me know what is the use of Solis in your setup when you have new more advanced inverter ?

Hi, I have got these batteries, do you know how much it would be to have an extra one fitted?

Nice setup thanks for another great update video can’t wait to see info when up and running this summer

I have just thinking of purchasing these batteries and the Victron MultiPlus ll 48'5000/70 - do they come with the detailed schematic's to allow a self install

Do you know which batteries other than Tesla and Huawei support the fast ramp up times or I. O. E as you mention in previous videos? Great video as always, who knew Soalr could be such a minefield?!

Thanks for this interesting and helpful video. Would it be possible to indicate where did you buy the batteries and also the inverter ? It seems to be a lot of third party seller with different prices. Not sure from where to order

May I ask..I know it sounds maybe a stupid question but... are all your solar applications.. inverter etc powered solely by your solar and not reliant on the grid to keep it on ? What I'm asking in a nutshell is...if there was a grid power cut would you still have power ?

Hi Nigel I want to get away from Gas and have been going round in circles on what system to install. After seeing this episode I would like some advise if the following is workable... 10 x JASolar Panels 405W 1 x Victron Multiplus Invertor 48/5000/70-50 1 x Victron Energy Cerbo GX 3 x Pylontech US3000c Batteries 1 x Sunamp Uniq 6kW eHW +iPV Heat Battery 1 x MyEnergi Eddi 1 x Rointe wifi Electric water heater I want full connectivity and will include several smart electric radiators. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Great video and lots of info. One quick question: when you say you can just add other batteries, do you need to make any changes to the inverter settings or is it literally just a case of turning all batteries off, making sure they are charged to same level, connect them and then turn it all back on again?

Could you share a wiring diagram for your setup please? I was looking at the wall behind you and couldn't quite make sense of it all.