100% agree. I have tried many many MMOs over the years and enjoy playing them solo (yeah sorry, I'm one of those) all the way up to end game, where suddenly you're no longer super powerful and locked out of progression without accepting the multiplayer experience. At this point I see no reason to play. But there are a few where I have been lucky enough to join an active guild and got to enjoy interacting with them. Meridian 59, DAoC, Eve Online, Warhammer Online... these to me are MMOs I list as my favourite that I played, and all have in common that I was lucky enough to be part of a guild/corp that made that experience what it was. Not the game. Playing those games post guild break up? Didn't last more than a couple of days.
True the unspoken social contract is often the only thing keeping players logging in everyday, dedicated to making progression as a like minded group. When that is gone, so is most of the motivation, both carrot and stick.
The problem with your thinking is that you think that, just because it's a game, it should be fun to play solo. The point of an MMO is that it's MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER. You're meant to interact. You're meant to work together. Just like in life. In life, you literally can't exist solo. In games, it's the same thing. So the thought that "it's fun because I can solo to max level" makes no sense. How would you experience any of the actual parts of that game? The raids? Dungeons? Events? You're that person who goes to a party and says you "had a good time standing in the corner and could get your own drinks". Then why the fuck did you go to the party?
@@Dyanosis ouch. Tell me what you really feel 🤣. The problem with your thinking is that, just because it says multiplayer in the genre, you have to constantly group up to play the game. I enjoy rpg games. I enjoy solo in an mmo because I enjoy the story, adventure and game mechanics. I play it as an rpg but with others in the game world. The ability to go off, have my adventure, then return to interact with others as and when I choose. Running around with others can be fun, but it can also tie you into feeling obligated to an activity you dislike/find boring because you don’t want to be “that guy” who lets others down. There is nothing wrong with playing the game how you choose to play it, at a pace you enjoy. Feeling forced to be carried by others just isn’t for me.
I generally make friends online working towards the same goal or doing a minigame together. Like fishing in wow, woodcutting in runescape or world bosses in gw2. Generally any game where people talk to strangers because they happened to be there. I have no idea why it has died out though. Is it walkthroughs to blame? Ppl alt+tabbing instead of talk? Maybe paranoia to actually talk to a stranger? Granted I was scared talking during the early days (especially in runescape) but after a while it gets easier and you learn from others. If you fail, just make a joke or laugh at yourself; everyone like someone who doesn't take things seriously. ^^
It died because most people have their online friends groups to always play with already and don't want to/too scared to talk to strangers. World was very different before social media, discord and mobile phones to keep in contact and organise with friends, public players were much more important for most people back then.
it hasn't died, WoW classic feels just like that. Most people in old school mmorpg still value socialising and community, thats why they stick to those games
In my case, it’s even more special when the MMO is the _reason_ that you have friends in the first place. Or to be more specific, *a* friend. The _only_ friend that I had, for about 8 years. Basically RuneScape was the support beam holding me up during my entire middle & high school years. That’s why it remains my favorite game of all time today, and why nothing can ever realistically top the impact that it had on my life.
Just realized I don't got any friends that play MMOs... Damn, probably the reason why I am always hopping in and out of different MMOs and usually quit during progression since I never really feel like making friends on my guild, FC or what have you.
The answer is clearly what he is playing in his gaming time. What he says will likely be influenced by lots of thing, what he does with action is the truth.
He does have a point. At one point when playing Ragnarok Online, I was having fun with the grinding, because I were in a party with nice people in it, so we kept chatting while killing Rockers. That was fun.
I really want to get into mmos but i struggle to get into them on my own and i dont have friends that play mmos. I wish i got that childhood experience of playing mmos with friends and doing fun quests with them.
Most people don't even want to play those. Good luck convincing friends to play when most other multiplayer games demand much less time to get to the fun.
I think it's healthy for the genre to have smaller chunks, because when you have the "umbrella MMO" (one that covers everything) the appreciation and love for each segment within the same game gets left behind eventually. Do one thing and make it shine, because those players will always come to your game. Do everything averagely, and everyone will find their favorite part done better somewhere else.
Objectively though if you had to weigh the qualites of an MMO what are the aspects that could make it the best it can be and what MMO has the most of them
Exactly. Let's be honest all of these games are the same. Reskinned versions of one another. People stick around in MMORPG long term because of the other players they meet and like. They squabble like an old married couple, but Asmon wouldn't like WoW as much if he couldn't run around with McConnell. And that's how it is with anyone else that plays games like this. Back when I was playing WoW the fun people in my guild were the reason I was playing. The game was fun as well, but the guild interaction was the real fun of the playing.
Even Asmon couldn't get enough players on Alliance to raid with him last raid of Shadowlands, let alone actually pass the raid. Without players willing to play together, it really limits what you can do.
wouldn't say all of them are though... the real Sandbox ones do not rely on gimmicks to keep a group of friends all "on rails" together for a very short and curated experience where real agency doesn't exist. ...And then there's the ones that are just hub-worlds or cleverly disguised "Lobbies"...those ones are even more dishonest than the Theme Parks and rely even more on the quality of your "friends"
Osrs is 100% the best mmo in 2023 and one of the best games in general in 2023 with a play to earn system instead of pay to win plus a new update every week voted on by the community in game can't beat that
the MMO i got the most play time out of because i somehow made friends in it who played it the longest (9 years) was planetside 2,. And I say NO... it is objectively one of the WORST mmo's for any new player & wannabe casual player. It is the Kenshi or Noita of MMOs or Battlefronts. And It's own playerbase **constantly** misdiagnoses why it is so unfair and unplayable to almost everyone who's tried it
You're reminding me of when I switched from 5e to PF2. My friends all played 5e at the time but the system was a boring slog for me to sit through. After running PF2 fot a while our 5e GM is switching to PF2 because everyone else plays it and he's neutral to it. .
I mean, if you came here to find Josh saying anything other than a subjective catch-all, you just don't know Josh. (okay we all don't, parasocialism is weird)
Well yes but the reason all MMO's are bad is because they aren't fully leveraging their own mechanics to create the Incentives for working together with other people. They always do it in the most ham-handed way...or in the past decade, skip all that entirely by straight up SELLING power to the very people who ironically never needed any help in life because they were already Trustfund kids
@@iller3 Ragnarok Online originally had one of the biggest communities in SEA simply because it relied heavily in everyone even randos cooperating in the field, albeit there where still flaws, there was no hand holding, you needed the veterans to guide and help you. In my country, a lot of people got life long friends from it.
I honestly knew word for word what he was going to say by looking at the thumbnail and video length. Its true dont get me wrong, but all joshs videos are very predictable and middle of the road now adays. Shame as I liked his content.
I still gotta give it to WoW, simply for having the decency not to over-bloat its cash shop and not fill the game with garish crap that doesn't even match the game's art style. Guild Wars has amazing combat and a great story but man is the cash shop abusive and makes the game look like a cheap dressup sim.
I think saying "Guild Wars has amazing combat" is a bit of an exaggeration. The combat is definitely different, especially with the ability to change up what weapon you use and, for the most part, any char can use almost any weapon. But it's definitely not the best combat.
@@Dyanosis You're out of your mind. As far as MMOs go, it's definitely top tier, and as far as the most popular 4 or 5 MMOs out there, I'd easily say it's the best feeling combat system in the industry.
