I was in scouts decades ago. I'm now a leader in scouts and I've wondered about this for years. I learned #1857 as a scout but the book now shows #1856 and the taut line. I prefer #1857 for my uses and it's seems more natural of a tie. Thanks so much for all the wonderful detail here.
I was in the scouts around 2000 and was taught 1856. It's easier to remember since all of the turns go the same direction. Two inside, one outside; direction doesn't matter as long as they're all the same. Once I got that down, I would occasionally do the last turn the opposite direction to make 1857 just because it looks nicer. I've never noticed any performance difference between the two. I use them interchangeably these days. If the line is too slippery, I'll do three turns on the inside instead of just two so that it bends the standing line a tad more.
Congrats on making the most clear and concise video I’ve ever seen on this topic! I am currently a scoutmaster of a very large scout troop. I happily shared this entire video with all my Scouts to show and explain the three versions of this famous knot. My note to them was that we teach version #2 (Abok #1856) because it’s what’s in the scout handbook. But I also agree with your wisdom to know all three versions and use them as a situation requires! Happy to subscribe and like your content! Keep it up!
Like many other knots out there, the "correct" way to tie this hitch is the one that you know how to tie coreectly that works for you and the aituation. Other than that, the perfectionists and technicality specialista out there can correct themselves and mind their own business.
Thank you for this!! I've been watching DJ / @TheBearEssentials videos about various knots, and I keep having curiosities exactly like THIS, about some nuances between differentiating which directions something go, how one aspect affects tension or holding strength, and this video of yours helps clarify!! Next up: I gotta make sense of Lark's Head vs girth hitch vs cow hitch, and versus clove hitch, bull hitch, and similar
Excellent video. With that in mind, the tag end for all of these knots are on the same side of the standing end in ABOK. What matters is whether the working end follows follows the original lay over the standing end.
Thanks for the video - I really enjoy these kind of explorations! I think of the knots in question as 'A' Tautline Hitch, rather than 'The' Tautline Hitch. Much like a square being a rectangle, but not vice-versa. I find it interesting that the Magnus Hitch is just one tag end wrap away from being a Prusik Knot, or half of a pair of Boatswains Handcuffs! I most regularly use the Magnus Hitch, as it's nice and tidy, and easy to adjust (for guy lines). The Midshipman's Hitch is nice, the second wrap should be pulled tightly to lock it off, before tying off with the half hitch - I didn't know this (pre half hitch) was known as the Awning Hitch, so thanks for that! It is surprisingly strong when locked off on that second wrap. They're all essentially riffs on the Lark's Head Knot - which many people discover just by playing around with cordage - a testiment to the ubiquity, practicality and simplicity of knots, as well as their complexity. It's quite interesting to see the connections to other knots/hitches. And it really shows the ingenuity of our ancesters, and how a knot tied 'wrongly' often leads to something new. Fascinating! Thanks again!
Good points. I think I favor ABOK #1857 (the Magnus Hitch-based version) because it most closely resembles a Prusik, as you mentioned. Thanks for watching!
I would always get mixed up when it came to actually tying the tautline hitch. I would tie the 1856 sometimes and the 1857 other times. I did not know they were both correct. Anyway, I find myself preferring the tautline hitch over the new fangled plastic fantastic gadgets they put on guylines these days!
#1855 the midshipman’s hitch is always my go to. I’ve found #1856 to slip with smaller diameter line. Never had that issue with the midshipman’s though
I was taught (no pun intended) #1856 as a boy scout, and I've always considered it one of the absolutely essential knots. However, having used both extensively, I would say that the Midshipman's hitch (aka #1855) is the best option for modern materials. I spend several weeks every year living in rope-tensioned tents, and if you're using modern rope/cord (which is much more slippery than organic materials), it's still pretty easy to adjust but with less slippage. Obviously for any temporary usage these should be tied slipped (meaning that on the last pass of the knot a bight is passed rather than an end).
I use #1857 for setting the wrap on my tablet weaving loom. But I think that when I do it I usually make a mistake, as I start with the ender going under the taught line....
When using slippery line you can use the magnus and it's look-alikes, but give it an extra wrap. I do this anyway with paracord, especially if it's new and slippery.
I think your best bet for that would be a Trucker's Hitch: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-lbHitLAia3I.html It won't slip, but it's less convenient for adjusting the tension once it's tied compared to the Taut-line Hitch.
@@thetautlinewith both the 1856 and 1857 knots, couldn't you add a few more wraps before tying the half hitch to increase the friction on a slippery line?
There's at least one more variation, which never crosses back towards the load but instead does the third (locking) loop still towards the anchor, over BOTH cords. I like it and use it for the simple reason that it eliminates "contradicting" movements and better allows for simpler "muscle memory" to kick in in tough conditions. You can see it being demonstrated by Paul Kirtley here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-l9Jj1FZCPBo.htmlsi=I17EP0vLBWYB5K-b&t=90
I prefer the Midshipman's Hitch (ABOK 1855) for both tautline hitching and hitching to secondary objects and lines. It works particularly well in sailing. For instance, when a jib sheet becomes bound up on its own winch (called an override), it can be very dangerous to release with bare hands (sometimes causing finger amputations). By hitching a different line to the tightened jib sheet and then winching that different line to a different hitch, the overridden jib sheet can be loosened safely and readjusted onto its primary winch. Then the temporary hitch can be removed and stowed.
I think its problematic to talk of similaritys to other knots as they have different aspects of the knot providing the biting function. This type of hitch was used by vikings to tightwn the rope that hold the mast sideways. "VANTKNOP" the knot=knop and Vant being the side stabilisation rope. When this hitch is made on a thin line like in the video one aspect is hard to see. But when a thicker rope its more clear. The dubble loops around the string peovide a length of the knot that create a leaverage on the string. Its not simply abiut the increased surface area but about the increased force that provide higher friction. Thats an element that is not at all the fact when comparing it to a similar knot tied on aseparate string.
The “midship” knot you show is actually called the Rutter Knot. And you did the other 2 completely wrong. The 2nd loop always needs to go back around through the inside *away* from the object you’re tying around. The 3rd loop which you did not even include is the loop that goes around inside back towards the object you’re tying, after you rotate the original loop back over.
Did you miss the entire point of the video? These hitches have notoriously bad naming conventions throughout the years. I’ve always known what you call the Rutter Knot as a midshipman’s hitch
What? Well you're in luck than, it's a video so you can watching repeatedly and even slow it down... And I could see everything that was going on. Camera view was just fine. Sheesh....
As a former assistant scoutmaster mostly involved in camping activities, I have seen scouts struggle with #1856. Most of the rope today is much more slippery than in Ashleigh's time. By the time the scouts can get the 1856 (rolling hitch base) set tight enough to hold, it is so tight that it won't release to slide back. The #1855 tends to have better grab at a lower dressing tightness, which allows it to release and slide better when that is desired. The nautical books, mostly written by wooden ship captains, recommend #1855 when tied back to itself and #1856 when tied to a wooden spar or much heavier, stiffer rope. Those same captains tended to really dislike #1857 in the magnus or reversed final hitch style. Realize they were referring to tying these knots in hemp or manila. The #1856 rolling hitch build was seen as unreliable even in manila or hemp. Even well made synthetic ropes today are much more slippery than any of the old natural ropes until they add a grabby coating such as polyurethane, which is quite uncommon in camping and climbing ropes. I think the mistake is that many people try to set the midshipman's hitch (#1855) too hard. It holds quite well without much tightening. Some other friction hitches have an even better slide-to-grab ratio, such as Blake's Hitch or the Adjustable Grip Hitch, which can be set quite loose but grip really well after a small amount of loading. I find #1856 to be the worst of the bunch and have never recommended it. I don't like to recommend friction hitch forms that were discouraged in the nautical manuals when very grabby natural rope was the norm.
@@haydenhowell1647 I agree because it provides more friction. If this is not what you want, go with the Magnus variation which slides / adjusts easily.
fantastic - the care you've taken in producing this is outstanding - and the education totally unexpected and a delight I'm sure many who view this will have had no idea there were so many knots as outlined in Ashley's Book of Knots - he would have been proud to see your video
@martinhafner2201 mentions below that some rope was/is less/more slippery when ABOK was written. Can you do a video on which ropes work best with which knot and vice versa?
Aound the back (towards the loop) once. Then around the front in the same direction three times, then around the back again. I have been using this knot for years in sailing and camping applications. It does not slip, but can easily be adjucted.
3 месяца назад
I use the latter two only because I sometimes mixup the last half-hitch :-)
As a former Scoutmaster, I have used this knot and taught this knot to hundreds of scouts and scouters(leaders) over the years. Abok is still the most comprehensive reference. A knot can have many names, usually depending on the group using it. Thank you for this video.
Thank you! Every time I tie this hitch I fuss over the "correct" way to tie it. The only idle curiosity I have left is whether the midshipman's can be tied with the half-hitch in the reverse direction, like ABOK #1857 is to ABOK #1856.
The final half-hitch can be made in the opposite direction, Ashley called it an Adjustable Hitch (ABOK #1800, pg 304). I should've included this extra tidbit, a totally natural variation to wonder about! Ashley writes that the #1800 version is less prone to twisting, but is apparently harder to dress/tighten.
1855 (or midshipman) is the most secure and holds its knot tightness after adjusting without redressing. If you want a "set it and forget it" knot, it's the best choice. However, it's a bit tougher to learn and takes some practice to get the crossovers on opposite sides of the knot where they belong. The trick is to leave the first loop quite loose until after the second loop has been tightened. 1856 (or taut-line) is very easy to learn and works fine for many purposes, but it can't be cinched down as tight at 1855 and must be redressed after most every adjustment. However, it shines when tied around a pole or branch, rather than a rope, where it holds better than 1855. The pleasing symmetry of 1857 (or magnus) is easy to remember visually, so you'll be able to reason it out if your memory goes fuzzy. It's awkward to tighten, though, without opposing ends to pull. I find it slightly less secure than 1856. (Most of my experience is with paracord. Results may differ with other materials.) Good video. Thanks for posting.
Though it doesn't look as pretty as the others, I really prefer the midshipman's hitch for the reason that you mentioned: It can handle some tension. That also means one can tie it under some existing tension which comes in more handy than one would expect. Usually I like to go with two inside wraps as well for a bit more friction on the line.
Thanks 👍🏼 None of us should ever quit learning 😅. Perhaps sometime you will make a video with bigger rope going much SLOWER so we ( me 😂 ) Can follow along. I want 2 get into tarping. These knots will speed up. And will also work on the spikes as well as ridge line. To me it looks very much like what they called the presit (?) Knot also 🤔😀. Great video ATB
Thanks, sorry the speed was not to your liking. You can try changing the playback speed if that's helpful (click the gear icon and look for "playback speed"). The knot you're thinking of is the Prusik I believe, and yes it's similar!
Truckers is awesome but takes more time to adjust. I find myself being lazy to do so if I have to during the nighttime when it’s cold and I have to adjust half a dozen guylines.
@@pedroclaro7822 I never find I have to adjust them that much, and I've had taut lines slip more often than I've had to readjust truckers myself, but to each their own.
Fair, I've had taut lines slip under strong winds too. In retrospect I could have used the midshipman's.@@benklusman7565 But how do you not have to readjust your guylines? I find myself having to loosen and tighten some to find a better placement for the tarp. Even in A-frame which is the simplest config, I have to readjust to get one side lower or whatnot (to adjust for the wind)
@@pedroclaro7822 I hear that. My experience has been that I don't usually have to re-adjust much, and I tie my truckers with a slip lock knot anyway, so it is marginally harder, just pull the slip tail, adjust, and pop the slip back in. I think I have taut-lines slip more often, and imo they take longer to tie and dress down so they'll hold than it takes me to tie two truckers with slip locks. To each his own, though, that's why there's so many knots :)
@@benklusman7565 yeah I know the slip method, and that’s what I often do. I’ll have to time myself doing both methods, see if it’s actually worth it. Now I added elastic cord to my tieouts so I shouldn’t need to adjust after the tarp gets wet and stretches. Should also give me some wind resistance so truckers might be better now. Btw check out Dave Canterbury’s vid on ‘best ridgeline for everyone’. He shows an alternative to truckers which is half sheepshank. Easier to tie and untie with a long working end. Hope thst helps bud.
I've been sailing and around biats for 60 years and didn't know about (or had forgotten about) ABOK. So, speak for yourself.. He's probably so smart because, like some of us, he's interested in history and doesn't have ADHD.
