I can never understand those who say they believe in an all-powerful God but balk at miracles like the virgin birth or the resurrection. They say only ignorant Bronze Age peasants could believe that virgins can conceive or that dead people can return to life. But that' just it. No one in the Bronze Age believed they could, either. Thats the whole point. That's why they called it a miracle!
I agree. However, I just want to caution that some true believers are immature in their faith. Not everyone goes from Atheism/Agnosticism to believing in full blown miracles over night. I know I didn't. For some, like me, it was a gradual process, one that often begins, not ends, when one confesses their true belief that Jesus is Lord and truly died and rose so that we could have everlasting life. However, this is why it's so important for churches to be very clear about their theology. I believe this is also why it's so important for Christians to go to church. Church is what helps one understand the importance of miracles like the virgin birth, but I believe the only miracle one needs to affirm to initially accept Christ is the resurrection, belief in the rest of the miracles in the Bible can and often do come later. In fact, I remember when I started to truly affirm the rest of the miracles in the Bible. A friend of mine who I assumed believed in God surprised me when, after I explained the Christian apologetic argument for the resurrection as popularized by NT Wright and William Lane Craig, he asked me a question I wasn't expecting. He asked, "so you're a Christian right? So you really believe Jesus walked on water?" I knew I affirmed Jesus' death and resurrection, and just explained why I could be confident in my belief in them, but I hadn't thought about Jesus walking on water. Some way, some how, it just came to me, and without even thinking, these words just came out of my mouth "well, I believe Jesus overcame death itself, walking on water is nothing compared to that." And right then, right there, I realized I did in fact believe in the rest of the miracles in the Bible. (I hope my friend found Jesus too, but I haven't seen him in ages since he moved away, he's a very kind person and clearly searching for the truth, in fact I should say a prayer for him right now probably, I'm sure he could use a prayer from anyone reading this as well)
@@JustAskingQuestions8571 *raises hand sheepishly* ummm, I went from being an atheist to being a full blown Young Earth Creationist in the span of less than 6 months 14 years ago. Faith is bigger than disbelief, the question is, does the individual or group of individuals in question actually have faith. I say no.
As a long-time member of an ELCA congregation, my impression is that most of the older members hold to historic Lutheran theology, but the seminary professors and younger leaders seem to be trying to distance themselves from Lutheran orthodoxy and would prefer that the denomination become just another generic mainline progressive church that has gotten rid of its "Lutheran baggage."
Non of these debates going on at congressional/parish level out here ELCSA (Southern Africa). A more conservative bent is still assumed. But I think the levels of education might have something to do with it.
you sound as though you’re against the more progressive churches, why is that? just curious, because i actually think a lot of lutheran churches need to expand on this inclusivity including the elca and not just lcms or anything. what i’ve observed in my church and many others with younger leaders is they think the history of more orthodox lutheranism is important to understand, but shouldn’t define how we practice it now as times do change. this is especially important, though, given that congregations with older beliefs and people truly are dying out, which i hate to see happen as i have a lot of love for this religion and the people in it.
@@normalizeappendicitis I am not "against" the more progressive churches per se, but I do think that there is a tendency to "reform" for the sake of reforming. For example, consider the doctrine of atonement. The Bible clearly uses language such as sacrifice, expiation, and propitiation -- at least those are the English translations of the original Greek, and most theologians have agreed with these concepts. Luther's writings combine elements of substitutional sacrifice and Christ the victor over Satan. In his commentary on Galatians, Luther wrote "He [Jesus] is not then a lawgiver, or a judge after the law; but in that He made Himself subject to the law, bearing the condemnation of the law, He delivered us from the curse thereby." "Progressive" Lutheran theologians say that we must stop talking about the crucifixion in terms suggesting that Jesus was in any way our substitute bearing the condemnation of the law, because that would be "cosmic child abuse." Instead, Jesus was killed for purely political reasons such as insulting the Jewish leaders, angering the Roman authorities, etc., or he allowed himself to be executed merely to demonstrate how much he loves us, as if that makes any sense. Another example is redefining sin as failure to realize our human potential. These are just two examples of how I think "progressive" theologians, Lutheran and otherwise, are re-interpreting biblical concepts to make them more palatable to themselves.
@@langreeves6419 No Satanist, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, Muslim, Jew, Sikh, Gnostic, or pagan receive can the body and blood of Christ save they repent and turn away from that foolishness and believe in the one true, Living Triune God. They are either idolaters and/or heretics.
@Siervo de Dios * God can save whoever he wants to I am not God and you are not God We do the best we can But we don't get to decide what God does Are you really going to tell God that he cannot save a Hindu? Are you gonna demand that you get to leave heaven because you find that a Muslim is there? Have you thought this through Are you going to be angry if there are not enough people in h***? Are you familiar with the parable of the workers who joined the Very last minute?
@@langreeves6419 We can't know who is going to be Heaven. Only God can read hearts. With that said the bible says you need to believe that Jesus died for your sins and to be baptized. If the people in the other posters mentioned religions don't believe in this then it's not what the Lord requires. I certainly am not going to say they aren't going to be there. The Bible just says believe and be baptized. Unless you are classifying Jesus Christ as a general "god" that all religions pray to the same god and details and beliefs besides a higher power are irrelevant.
@@patrickcooke4792 When there are churches in the ELCA who literally and formally worship Native American gods, buddha, embrace wiccinism, etc., then YES, they need to come out and say "we are no longer Christian" and admit it to themselves.
ELCA needs to drop the E, L, and C, because they do not preach the gospel, they are not Lutheran, and they are not Christian. But they are in America. So they're actually just A
That pastor lady uses *good feelings* as a measure of what is good. Oh dear, feeling good is not necessarily a good thing. I think pastors should study philosophy as a requirement.
All American Evangelicalism is dedicated to GOOD FEELINGS! That whole "personal relationship" concept so popular in our culture is all about "good feelings".
@@langreeves6419 They were Ebionites not Christians. Btw epistle of Thessalonians is the first Christian document ever created and it wasn't made by the Ebionites.
@@BixbiteBungo Its more of a battle royal between the Boomers, Gen X'er/ Millennials (both generations are really progressive by the church standards), and then the Zoomers
I’m going to be starting my seminary studies in January and going to become a pastor in the LCMS, and it’s funny in that first paragraph she actually made the case as to why they need to drop the Lutheran from their name.
@@williamhenning4320 the ELCA largely supports theological positions that are not in line with the lutheran beliefs of biblical inerrancy, and also flat out disagree with much of the claims in the confessional doctrines of the small/large catechisms and the book of concord. the ELCA takes a much more metaphorical stance on many theological points that conservative lutheran denominations would see as heretical
But I've been a fan of Luther for decades, long before I became a member of the ELCA. Luther is a big deal among Baptist, he was big on salvation thru grace only. So I'd read 4 biographies of him, listened to an audio drama bio, and watched the major motion picture on him. So I'm glad to finally be in the Evangelical LUTHERAN Church of America. But the main reason I like the church I'm in isn't the name Luther. They can use any name. I'm just happy to finally be in a church which follows scripture. Following the Bible is more important than the name of the church. I think I like the name Lutheran because Luther preached sol scriptura.
Please do: 1 - Old Catholics (Union of Utrecht and others). 2 - GAFCON and independent Anglicans. 3 - Mormons (LDS church and the Community of Christ). 4 - Amish, Mennonites and Hutterites. 5 - Russian sects (Molokans, Doukhobors, Old Believers, Subbotniks). 6 - The Christian Community (Anthroposophy oriented church). 7 - Quakers.
My mother, brother and myself went to a WELS church at the time, my mom's boyfriend (who years later became my stepdad) went to an ELCA church at the time. I remember before service they asked if he could take communion with them but they said preferably not after he said where's he's a member of. I was puzzled by this because why would a Lutheran church deny another Lutheran communion? Now that I've researched what sets the ELCA apart from the WELS and LCMS, all I can say is...I get it.
@@fighterofthenightman1057 And that will most likely vary across the board from where one lives. Curiously; while by watching so many webcasts from a multitude of mainstream Churches, while I became with the impression that most of them are exactly the same thing, making in reality such a big single denomination, there is something on me starting to think that ultimately the ELCA is the one that stays more apart from the trend. Surely there are still the "old school" Parishes out there. Nothing to do on them rather than let those 75+ yo Parishioners to pass away, close the Church and sell the property afterwards. But there seems to be a new generation of ELCA Parishes elsewhere, especially on the "blue" states, usually led by a young woman, where things are starting to be different. They have plenty of kids on their services, they attract a quite young crowd to them and they are far out of the cultural wars of the last decades that are very far past them. RU-vid is your friend, and some of said Parishes will be on first page of any related search. Surely the mainstream Churches are shrinking now, but Christianity is sort of restructuring itself and redesigning at same time. I don't predict them to disappear by 2050 like some may think about. There seems to be a new life in the "underground".
@@nunagoras As an LCMS member I can say the beliefs are very different and the practice is becoming greater. The services used to be similar but things like drag queen story hour and the sparkle creed have popped up in ELCA churches.
@@run4cmt I was a WELS member and went to a local ELCA church and besides having a gay female pastor the service seemed very similar to the WELS church. Although some things felt a bit more like Roman Catholic it was similar. I asked about communion and they said as long as I was baptized Christian I could attend. I only went once though and didn't do a Q&A about the details.
"A feminist Palestinian interpretation of the Book of Jonah." The moment you try and interpret religious texts through a modern, progressive lens, you're automatically discrediting yourself. Any interpretive lens is an eisegetical approach to a discussion that should be exegetical in nature.
@@mj6493 Traditional views are tolerated. The real problem is that the "traditional views" don't tolerate other views. If traditionalists can't dominate others they claim they aren't tolerated.
@@kitiowa that’s because there is such a thing as orthodoxy and heresy. Intellectual deception always follows moral rejection. When you reject biblical orthodoxy it’s because you want to justify your own selfishness
Grew up in an ELCA church, but did not accept Christ til I was an adult in an SBC church. Never understood what my old church believed back then. Certainly interesting to me now to look back on the teachings I was raised in, especially now being an SBC seminary student as well.
and that was the beginning of the End and the decline...and that whole gay and women culture clash. And the constant beating up of northern European based history of our churches...and the Baptist-like worship services we endure now.
@@tayh.6235 What utter hogwash. It is disgusting statements like that that make apostasy the attractive option. Why would one want to stay in Christianity when people like you make such assertions.
@@kitiowa you can certainly make such a reply, but am I wrong? I would hope people are seeking truth not nicety regardless of what conclusion they come to.
@@TwizzElishus Regressive Christianity is disgusting. Expecting Christianity to be without intellectual integrity in the face of reason will ultimately fail.
I don't believe Christ would but it is 100% antithetical to Luther. In fact they really are an Erasmus faith which was Luther's challenger. I prefer liberal Christianity, but I know Church history, it is not Lutheran.
I was raised catholic and recently converted to the ELCA. So happy I did! I felt so welcomed from day one and felt like home. Thank you for your videos. Keep up the great work.
@superduck6456 Women pastors, open to lgbtq and a more liberal stance on abortion. I really did try to stay Catholic... I even went to catholic youth camp a few times... at different places and more or less all of them said all the lgbtq and women who have chosen an abortion are going to hell. VERY fear mongering and I didn't like that. Maybe that's not the case for everyone.
@@richardsaintjohn8391 What do you mean? Define reform please. You yourself pose with a pride flag, when was that ever acceptable in the church!? When was that acceptable in the bible? Ohhh know, it was acceptable when you removed pages to your own liking as well as thre paul, the old testament, and the commandment of the Lord to the side. If you do not beleive that the whole bible is God's true word, His true command, and that He is creator and Lord over all then you have no buissness affiliating with any of God's Kingdom. And when did prsent day american ploitics even get into this? Im British lol!!!!
Great Video ! Informative ! I'm from a conservative ALC/LCA [Wisconsin/Chicago] family; I grew up or came to adulthood in the ELCA. I'm a conservative in the ELCA or a moderate/Lib in the in the LCMS. I like both. This video illustrates the educational debate on what a Lutheran/Christian "is". I have enjoyed Martin Luther's writings, sermons and opinions. His style seems like a cantankerous, opinionated spiritual lawyer ! I would appreciate his opinion on the video ! 🙂
Yet LCMS Lutherans care not in communion with 95% of the world’s Lutherans, won’t allow their pastors to pray with others and other oddities, while staying totally to themselves and no ecumenical ties to other Christians. There are plenty of conservative ELCA churches, and easy to try to portray all in both groups as uniformly following their parent orgs.
Matthew 7:15-16 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?"
Just watched this again, and I have to say … Joshua, you deserve a better comments section! This channel is about LEARNING about different denominations, not judging them. How many Mainliners do you see spamming your videos on evangelical videos critiquing their theology? Probably only me from time to time as the only one ever fighting back! Keep up the great work, and I hope your channel continues to draw more moderate, even-tempered and considerate followers to help drown out some of these combative fanatics.
@@lawrencelenerd3988 I'm sorry to hear that. I thought you might be having a problem. I didn't understand that Satan was leading you. Please. Come to the ELCA. We will help you find God as your leader instead of satan.
Seriously though. I have my differences with Martin Luther, but I respect the Missouri Synod. The ELCA is just heresy at this point, might as well be Unitarians
I’ve always said that a Christian sect’s true theology isn’t what is contained in its official “book of discipline,” but what is tolerated in its ranks with impunity. The ECLA is a prime example, especially with the statements made by that witch Nadia.
Me an atheist learning about ultra-liberal mainline Christian denominations: What the hell is even the point if you deny all of christianity? Might as well just hold potlucks and bowling meet-ups.
Thanks! Your vid made me decide to go from a disaffected mostly confessional old prayer book Episcopalian to a rather happy Lutherpalian, suspicious of Hippy liturgics and sacred art.
Ay I had a similar conversion! The doctrinal unity and historic consistency convinced me as I read the Book of Concord. I could not say the same with the 39 Articles, and even with their exclusion it felt like its intended doctrinal wiggle room eventually became too much where Tridentine Catholics, Prayer Book Catholics, Reformed or Wesleyan Evangelicals, Old High churchmen, and even Pentecostals are all part of the same tradition. As someone raised Catholic, rhe dominant Calvinist history of Anglicanism just did not jive with me lol Granted, finding a liturgical ELCA church has been hard to find. European Lutherans would be horrified to see guitars and projector screens despite the Augsburg Confession's specific instruction to retain the Mass
@@paulbauer6353 because I’m a queer person. For one. For another, I’m pro choice and I believe strongly in a woman’s right to choose. I don’t believe that the church should exclude the LGBTQ community. The church should be an open door for everyone, and a lighthouse for social justice. If I wanted to join a church that didn’t believe in any of this stuff I would just become Catholic. Or I would be an atheist, but I love Jesus too much for that. Or I should say, he loves me too much to let me go. He accepts me just as I am, and I want to be part of a church that advocates for the shunned. And gives communion to anyone who walks through the door.
@@babyboy1971 Interesting you mention becoming Catholic. 🙂 I considered joining the ELCA when I realized that some beliefs of the very conservative and anti-Catholic Lutheran church I grew up in (most prominetly the belief in a literal 7 day creation) were incorrect and potentially harmful. But after examining the ELCA closer it seemed like the reason they didn't necessarily believe in a literal 7 day creation was that they had no mooring at all, and would basically turn whichever way the culture turned. For this reason I could not believe that this could be what St. Paul called "the pillar and bulwark of truth". After several years of searching, I eventually became convinced that the Catholic church was the church that Jesus Christ founded. Which was the furthest thing from where I started that I could imagine! Now I realize that it shouldn't be about choosing a church that aligns with your beliefs, it should be about joining the church that you feel is the true church and taking the moral challenges it presents seriously. May God bless you, my brother in Christ, and may He lead you where He wills and ultimately unite us all to Himself. 🙏✝️❤️
I like how when they deny "Christian zionism" they don't mean the Christians who are huge supporters of Israel, but instead they deny that Christ will actually come back and destroy the wicked. Classic use of a phrase that isn't liked to hide that they're denying the Second Coming of Christ to judge the living and the dead.
@@tjjones-xj7kq Not all of them do, but a bunch do. The problem with the ELCA is they don't have any standard of what they believe, so some believe radically different things than others.
@@gerrardthemagnificent5960 Thanks for the reply! That makes sense I was at a service once and they said something about eventually or in time regarding Heaven and I was confused. I was raised it's Heaven or Hell no eventually anything. Glad you made that point and I hear it varies depending on the pastor. Almost seems like members could be jumping ship every time there is a new pastor who may alter things a bit. Have a good Sunday!
Do you know how this form of Lutheranism compares to the form of the state Lutheran church in Germany today? Believe it is also called Evangelical also?
I am a Lutheran from India belonging to NWGEL (North Western Gossner Evangelical Lutheran ) Church. Theologically, it was as conservative as WELS church in America. But due to bad leadership, few years back it has start ordaining women. This is just the start of compromising with the word of God. But, that doesn't mean, I agree with my church position in this regard. It's just that I am stuck because of the cultural issue and also, there is not much Lutheran option available for me to choose.
Please check this ministry. This is one of many that are true to The Bible and operating in power just as the book of Acts. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AtSeAVBuDxc.html
Just think how conservative-confessional Lutherans feel when our neighbors see headlines like "Lutherans Affirm Gay Marriage" and mistakenly assume we have something to do with it. Not fun.
@@quinnwhittaker5472 One part is that a non-historical view of the Resurrection is a valid view in this denomination. 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 1 Corinthians 15:12-19 Also, at 18:12 , the quote of that pastor is contradicted by v19
@@quinnwhittaker5472 (1) Bible has errors (2) ELCA believes homosexual acts are not sinful (3) ELCA ordains women contrary to scripture. There are more, but I won't belabor the point.
Once you decide the Bible is not inerrant, and not God's Word but only contains God's Word, it allows you to pick and choose what to accept. With that the death spiral begins.
The old and new testaments contradict each other all the time. There is no way to interpret the Bible in a totally consistent way. This is why we have reason. If god though the Old Testament was complete, or that humanity had enough information, our salvation through Christ and his teaching would be unnecessary. So one must take the teachings of Christ and apply them with reason and empathy.
@@lukesoderbloom9905 The problem isn't with the Bible, but the fact that you look at it with an unbelievers eye. You interpret it through a heart corrupted by sin. The Sinner suppresses the truth in their unrighteousness. That is your problem. Repent and believe, the Kingdom of God is at hand.
Jesus told us the two greatest commandments is to love your neighbor and love God with all your heart. That does not mean that we should allow sin, no matter the form. It also does not mean that being a Christian is about what feels good or that it will feel good. God loves us in our suffering. In our meekness. He wants us to deny ourselves and pick up our cross and follow Him. The Bible is true. May God forgive us all for we know not what we do. Prayers for you and everyone on this earth. May God bless you.
I go to an ELCA church on Sunday's when I'm not booked to preach. It's a small rural church. A lot of them are far more conservative than the denomination but the loyalty is strong, and the desire not to rock the boat. I'd say the average age of the core membership is 80ish.
Wow, that was way worse than I could have ever imagined. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 ESV This is what this video reminds me of.
Christian doctrine is not a fluid, changing entity. It was established by the early church Fathers and the apostles. The fact that many ELCA pastors have denied the doctrine of vicarious satisfaction is a very serious problem and is not a matter of "unfinishedness". In truth, "It is finished". The only thing that is unfinished, and will only be finished when Christ returns, is our sanctification.
The whole point of Protestantism is that the teachings of Jesus are more important than what early church leaders thought. It is finished, but our realization of that is not.
Pretty funny they define a "Mega" church as membership of 801 or more - that could be attendance of as little as 200. Church growth people often define a Mega Church as 2,000 or even 3,000 in average attendance.
It used to be 1,000. That's because one aim of CGM is to keep moving the goalposts, holding out even bigger numbers for a church to continually aspire to. More, more, more.
In Lutheran theology, the sacrament of communion is an essential aspect of worship. In a church with thousands of people in attendance it would be less practical for each person to be personally presented with the body and blood of Christ through the bread and wine at every worship service. Also, I think that Lutherans put an emphasis on a personal relationship between pastors and members. How many attendees at Joel Osteen's church would be able to call him at home and say "I'm having a spiritual crisis. Can I meet with you?"
@@sarco64 once a church gets past about 150 attenders it is important to have some form of small group structure begin. A system of people looking out for others and a pastoral care network. I think this is why most churches stay small. This network does not become formalized. In every large Protestant church I have been in there has been such a structure. While I started LCMS, I also spent some time at Menlo Park Presbyterian while at Stanford. My young couples’s Sunday school group of 50-70 couples broke down into covenant groups with a group steering committee which met with the youth and young families minister. That was a communications and pastoral care network. Nearly everyone in that church was connected in a covenant community (via a ministry or affinity group) or formed from temporary newcomer groups when first attending prior to membership. I believe in some churches the pastors over these smaller groupings become communicant groupings. I don’t know-communion in megachurches was not meaningful to me. Communion in the seat generally not meaningful to me. Sunday service was not either. Only the Sunday school and covenant group…that was my church. I needed to return to liturgy and Eucharist! Mega is not the answer, Jesus is the answer. I have landed Episcopal.
I will be changing from the UMC to the ELCA in January, due to the UMC’s forthcoming decision on LGBT people within the church. I am a Christian who believes in original sin, biblical inerrancy, and several other doctrines that are often considered conservative. Moreover, I also hold to quia confessions. I believe that our sins can only be forgiven when we practice true repentance. Furthermore, I support the Reconciling in Christ congregations in the ELCA, because reconciling in Christ parishes offer a safe place for all people. As a person with LGBT family members the ELCA offers a network of support that I need.
Simply because most conservative Christians confess biblical inerrancy, doesn’t mean all view inerrancy in the same way. For instance, I believe that each book was written for a very specific purpose. Moreover, each group of books reveals something about how Gods people should live. Furthermore, even though the denominations listed fit my conservative views. I am a not a member of the: Anglican, Baptist or Presbyterian Church, because of major theological differences between the doctrines of those denominations and my beliefs. The major differences occur when discussing: baptism, salvation, predestination, and Christ’s bodily presence during the Lord’s Supper. These theological differences would make me an outcast if I were to become: Anglican, Baptist, or Presbyterian. I understand that there are theologically conservative Lutheran churches all over the U.S., but the nearest churches to my current location are more than two hours away.
@@run4cmt I’ve joined an ELDoNA church in South Carolina and am attending services via Skype. This was written before I was came to a biblical understanding of this highly important issue. However, I have family that will likely remain in the ELCA despite the bodies blessing of gay marriages and clergy. I also have family that will remain Methodist after the UMC makes it’s decision regarding LGBTQ people serving as pastors and blessing same-sex marriages.
Although honestly I don't believe every Christian denomination should accept LGBT ppl, I think it's totally legit for LGBT ppl themselves to join those liberal Christian denominations. Not everybody, but somebody should accept them as legit Christians in the end.
ELCA stands for Extremely Lost Church of America and/or Extremely Liberal Church of America. I belonged to an ALC Church in the early '80's,and I could tell something wasn't right.
6:23 He didn’t breathe, he died and God resurected him 3 days later as Jesus hints in Matthew 12:39-40 Tarsis was in what is now south turkey so Jonah going to Tarsis by sea means he was in the Mediterranean sea so what is she talking about with Tiger and Euphrates?
People have been arguing where Tarshish is for 2000 years. Josephus argued that it was Tarsus, but others have argued that it's Carthage, Sardinia, or even Spain. I personally like the idea that it's Spain the most since it implies Jonah was trying to flee to the edge of the known world to escape God, which is obviously impossible. Regardless, like you I found that writing to be incredibly stupid. Jonah was a Jew, he would get on a boat in Judea to flee, not one in Assyria.
The Lutheran pastor when we joined the church after moving was a former Catholic priest. He said he liked that the ELCA gives you "freedom of faith", i.e., not as strong in orthodox beliefs.
Well at least a pastor in the Lutheran or most other Protestant churches can marry. Many Catholics become Protestant due to redundant and old fashioned beliefs like that. I’m a former Catholic that saw ‘the light’ and hypocrisy of Roman Catholicism. I knew that no Pope or his bishops would ever give me what truth I’ve been searching for.
Freedom of false doctrine and invented interpretation to serve one's own sins, yeah. Shameful. Also, many comments being hidden but still in the reply count. Why? Ask who controls media and censorship and what real Lutherans might be trying to say 😉
I love being part of the ELCA! I will say, I find the thumbnail of this video to be... an interesting choice, when looking at comparable thumbnails of videos on other denominations from this channel.
What's the difference between ELCA and UMC? I'm thinking United Methodist are a bit less liberal than most ELCA churches but it's hard to tell. Sounds like some ELCA churches are alt left with blessing dogs (California) to others holding a bit more in the middle and not so left leaning. If you don't know that's okay. I'm trying to find a church more in the middle I'm thinking locally it's UMC or the ELCA.
"To ask why some people are saved and others damned is to display the pride so characteristic of humanity's sinful condition, the unwillingness to let God be God." 16:34 You know who else didn't simply "let God be God," Michael Stoltzfus? Our father Abraham in Genesis 18. "It would be sacrilege for You to do such a thing, to destroy the righteous with the wicked; it would be sacrilege for You! Shall the Judge of all the earth not do justice?"
It would be nice to find a theologically conservative church where you don't feel you also need to be a toe-the-line, Trump loving, covid-19 denying, die-hard Republican. The current far-right political climate in many churches, both from the pulpit and among the congregants, have turned me off of church. I'm very reluctant to attend church like the ELCA because of their liberal theology even though I know I wouldn't have to be a Trump loving Republican. That said, the merging of politics and religion seems to be a very American thing. I've listened to sermons (on SermonAudio) from Canada, Australia, and the UK and none have ever made political statements or remarks. They stick to religion and avoid politics.
From my experience there are still plenty of theological conservative churches that are not overtly political and do not mention politics in their sermons. Most theological conservative churches I’ve been to that weren’t either very fundamentalists or very charismatic have just focused on preaching the gospel rather than politics.
Bernie Sanders guy here. I've been very happy in an LCMS congregation. Some folks have opinions but they aren't intermixed with the Gospel. I think you're right about this being an American thing. I think it's due to the theological shakiness of so much of American protestantism, whether reformed or revivalistic. They are off the mark but very assertive.
It depends on how you define "evangelical." The word is derived from a Greek word meaning literally "good news," or another English translation would be gospel. The term originally meant focusing on the pure gospel message of God's grace as revealed through the incarnation, life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus "for us and our salvation.," and thus salvation is purely on the basis of God's grace alone, received by faith alone, on account of Christ alone, without any contribution on our part. The term was originally applied to Lutherans during the Reformation. In American usage the term has come to be associated with a particular theology that emphasizes "decisional regeneration," that is, salvation via a born-again experience resulting from "making a decision for Christ," and an emphasis on persuading others to make such a decision.
@Lang Reeves but here's the question, does the ELCA consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God? That's one way to define evangelical (Bible is infallible).
@Brother.M yeah. I know, I was in a church that was affiliated with ELCA. They do preach free grace theology (to believe in Jesus for Salvation). In that sense they are Christian, yet they have some reforming to do.
@Brother.M I don't expect them to be "evangelical." Literally anyone can call themselves Evangelical. The term is usually claimed by Non denoms and or Baptists.
People ask why we don't hear more about possession and demonic stuff like in the time of Christ, but I think the devil has become more subtle in recent years in his attempts to destroy our faith. Let him or her with ears hear. Lord Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.
Why would he do something supernatural? That would hurt the rise of atheism/secularism/naturalism (including among "Christians") which is going so well for him.
No doubt the Bible has plenty of symbolic language, and to overlook that is to do the text a disservice, but some things need to be taken literal. To quote Flannery O’Connor, “If it’s just a symbol, then to Hell with it”.
It is depressing to hear hateful people attack God's church on a website. But take heart. God's light cannot be extinguished by haters. The Good News of Jesus will continue to be taught in the ELCA. The haters can't stop the love of God.
When your Systematic Theology states clearly that the Bible "CONTAINS" God's Word, you are in no way, shape or form a Conservative Denomination or really even a Christian Church. Leave that apostasy and seek out a WELS Pastor to speak to.
@@MRTOWELRACK she is in direct contradiction of scripture. People who deny Christ as the messiah aren't Christian. You: that's a no true Scotts man fallacy.
A denomination that approves of the homosexual lifestyle and women pastors, it is apostate. A denomination that won't discipline pastor who is a foul-mouthed boastful fornicator is a denomination I want nothing to do with. Maybe your church is more conservative than the denomination. Maybe your church should leave the denomination.
It seems like everyone quoted here is just outright ignoring any biblical teachings they find inconvenient. I am very concerned that these are the false teachers that the bible continuously warns us about. The woman at the end is openly encouraging sin...
Come back to the LCMS! Our door is open and we'll love to take you back in. Reject this nonsense and come back. I'm an LCMS Lutheran and I pray that the conservatives in the ELCA reject this false doctrine and return to their roots.
