Same here. I have over 150 cards graded with CSG. I love their slabs and registry. I can pull up all my cards in the inventory section and they have high quality pics of all my slabs that I can sort.
As someone relatively new to vintage, grading helps give me peace of mind that I’m not buying a fake. Im perfectly happy with a SGC 1 or 2 depending on the card. It also helps give a general idea when looking at comps since I don’t have years of experience built up. That could certainly change as experience increases.
Great episode Graig, Mike's channels are definitely must-watch for me! Enjoyed this conversation, the majority of my cards are ungraded and I am in the process of getting some of my favorites graded. For me, I collect mostly Vintage and I just love the way they look in an SGC slab so I will send my cards to them, if I see a card I like in another slab I have no issues with picking it up. I am not bothered by having multiple grading companies in my collection. The biggest drawback of grading is the cost and how much of your hobby budget it eats up.
Graig, Great question and answer session with Mike on a hot topic that is on most collectors minds!! You did a fantastic job in hosting this session!! The content of your conversation was both very interesting and educational!! As a collector I encourage you to host more of these discussions to explore the current questions in the hobby!! Keep up the good work!!
Good show. The grading companies don’t want to be transparent because we’ll all see how simplified the grading process is. Quick 30 second look, assign a grade, and slab it. That’s it. Would be difficult to justify the 20-30 bucks for a 30-second review.
Where I think it hurts the hobby is when people are trying to cancel late old set a lot of the major stars are disappearing to the greatest market and they can't finish it
I think where it hurts to cardmarket is that when guys are trying to hand collate a set the big cards like Mantel those cards are being graded makes it hard to do
Great collaboration Graig!!! Love Mikes channels, he is the Godfather of YT Sports Card Collectors! Love the discussion on grading, I’m an SGC guy as you know. The most interesting thing not said was- with billions going to grading, is grading taking money out of the hobby? I know I’ve spent a lot personally on grading my own cards, and if grading didn’t exist or I didn’t grade, I’d probably have more cards.
Great discussion. I’m one insignificant collector who plans to send some business SGC’s way. I’ve also started to focus more on the slab when purchasing a graded card. When eBaying, for example, I’ll search for a card in a SGC holder. I’m impressed with the way SGC does business and appears to respect collectors. There was a Chasing Cardboard video that focused on a card sent to PSA that was lost and the efforts to resolve the situation. PSA’s response left a bad taste in my mouth. There are other cases I’ve seen on RU-vid that were concerning, but the Chasing Cardboard episode really left an impression.
Appreciate it. It was a fun conversation. Part of me wishes it was a livestream so we could get some questions in the chat, but due to scheduling purposes, that wasn't really possible.
More videos like this one, Graig. Very interesting hearing both your perspective and Mike's even if you agree on a lot, the conversation was never not boring, and you both had really good questions/answers.
Appreciate that a ton, my friend. I've never hosted another content creator before, but I really enjoyed it. I think I'm going to do more of that in the future. Appreciate the positive feedback.
@@MidLifeCards Of course. I always try to watch your videos. I think you and, Chris the baseball card collector dealer, I don't know if you watch much of his content, but it would be a good one imo. Chris, is also in his early-ish 40's, and has been in the sport card world for over 35 years around the time you got into it as well.
Mike, I confused by some of your comments on PSA and SGC. I totally get your married to PSA now because you like conformity with collection. Then you say that SGC is the best grader right now and would recommend any new collector to buy those slabs. Why I totally understand too. What I’m confused is when you said if SGC came to you offered to reslab all your PSA’s to SGC slabs for free. Why wouldn’t you do it if you want conformity and feel SGC is the best grader? Thanks.
I thought Mike did a good job explaining his reasoning. He has a bunch of cards in PSA's registry, which need PSA grades for a card to be included. Additionally, he points out his "collector OCD" that a lot of us have, about wanting things to be uniform.
Great interview, was always a psa guy but the the lack of consistency has turned me off to them but 98% of my collection is psa. All I ask for is consistency and PSA has lost that . I spend hard earned money to get cards graded why should I have to submit the same card 3 times to get a fair "correct" grade. I want a company who will treat all customers fairly/consistently across the board. This week I sent my first submission to SGC.
PSA will never change a thing because they don't have to. PSA is old money, and they'll always be at the top simply because they already are. So many collectors are driven only by the market, and want to collect only what is deemed to be valuable. Since PSA is considered the best by the market, they'll continue to think it's the best. That being said, I think SGC will narrow the gap a bit as more and more serious collectors realize the many benefits to SGC over PSA.
@@JakeC222 I think they're okay, but everyone has their preferences, I would probably put CSG slabs over SGC AND PSA, but I don't really see them around at my local card show.
If I was one of the big grading companies. I would announce that my grading company will be at most, if not all, big card shows. Ready to grade and slab cards on-site. All in the name of stealing market share.
When it comes to consistency I am the same. I try not to buy PSA, but when I do, I cross them over to SGC (baseball) or CSG (football/UFC). I love the CSG ecosystem the best but I’m locked in on SGC for my baseball cards.
Grading brings up a couple of questions. One, are there players , years, or specific cards that you would recommend getting graded almost every time as a way of preserving the card in its current condition? For example, would you recommend grading Mantle, Mays, Koufax cards from the 1950’s and 60’s as a blanket recommendation or not? Secondly, I’ve seen several videos about how to package and submit your cards for grading but, I’ve never seen a video about how to make a bulk submission of 25-50-100’s of cards. How would you recommend packaging 25-50-100’s of cards for a bulk submission?
Generally speaking, everyone has their own threshold of what is "worth" spending the money to authenticate/protect/grade. For me, cards that are over about $150 usually meet that threshold. Most Mantle, Mays, and Koufax cards would meet that requirement...but not all of them. Some people prefer cards ungraded, so some people have cards worth thousands that remain ungraded. Regarding a bulk submission, just follow the same guidelines as a small submission, only do it with more cards. If you want, you could go through a 3rd party submitter. I know Ryan Nolan of Breakout Cards does bulk submissions to SGC and he's super knowledgeable and a good guy.
@@MidLifeCards Ha! Thanks!! Mookie was a leadoff guy who knew how to work the count like a champ. And by the way - I started making some content, inspired by your lead (and a few others). I think you might get a kick out of my latest video!
Entertaining video Graig. I want to go off topic for a second. Please don’t sell yourself short. I have watched many different baseball yt videos over the years. Imo, there only a very few that actually know what they are talking about. You are one of those very few. Most of the others just really don’t have much knowledge about the hobby and others just want to just show their recent raw buys or grading reveals. Anyway… back to the grading topic. The only reasons as we all know that people go with PSA is because they want all their slabs to be the same(just a few collectors) and the resale value, (still can’t figure that one out). I know this would never happen, but imo, this is the only way to make the grading world consistent: Establish ONE set of grading standards that ALL grading companies must use and they must also use the 4 sub grades of corners, edges, centering and surface so that way you will know why your card was graded as such. The result being that the grading values of cards would end up being much more consistent than they are now. The minimal differences would now be in customer service, quality of slabs and turnaround time. Transparency and accountability means happy collectors and investors. Mic drop.
I'm all for it. But, it would almost require some sort of oversight and common ground, so I don't see it happening. That said, if it happened, it would be fantastic!!
Fair point. The best part of the hobby is that there are so many different options for collectors of cards...sport, non sport, players, years, grading company, ungraded, etc. It's one of my favorite things about it...there's a place for everyone!!
I am 100% on board with you guys and I have always been on board with your opinions of cards as a collector of over 40 years. IMO, grading is a necessary evil and those people who complain about grading often reluctantly grade because it benefits them financially. PSA grades 1 million cards per month and the next three competitors grade less than 300K total per month. I buy raw, grade for protection and look for pretty cards, regardless of grade.
I really like the new slabs for CSG, I just wish they used a color different than black. Odd that TAG does not grade vintage; it puts into question the accuracy of their grading--cardboard is cardboard.
Sadly, I'm afraid if PSA had to give an explanation for why they graded a card in a certain way you may not live long enough to get them back in your lifetime. Your grandchildren would have to pick them up.😀
I don't like the SGC look. I will buy the card if it looks nice. Usually way cheaper than PSA. Crack the slab re-submit to PSA for the registry list as I go. Different strokes for Different folks.
My belief is buy the card, because of the player, condition, the year, not the holder, i collect for the love of baseball, which has nothing to do with the holder.
I think Mike and I both agree with you on that. He even mentioned buying the card not the grade in our discussion. The key is the player and condition and whether the collector likes it. Everything else is secondary.
Totally agree buy the card. Don’t need a 6 or 7 in vintage, good with the 2 or 3 that we can afford. I will say grading is def a positive and needed for the authenticity of the card, sigh of relief sometimes that it’s not a fake.
"Vintage is not rare". Rarity is a relative term, compared to 80s-Modern it is MORE rare; it also can be "scarce" depending on the demand. Example, while the 52 Topps Mantle is not rare it is scarce because of super high demand .... There are no shortage of buyers for that card. . I think you should be more precise with your talking points if you are going to present yourself as an "expert". Also, SGC has been around with a solid collector base since late 1990s, are not a johnny come lately, their vintage cards were heavily collected in the mid 2000's when you re-entered the hobby
I appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment. I think Mike and I both acknowledge that SGC is a very high end and reputable company and we are rooting for them to be a strong competitor with PSA, making quality even better than it is. :-)
It's not so much that vintage cards are rare. They were not designed to be. Most people who collected back then didn't look at their cards, as investments. Even the great players such as, Mantle, Aaron, Mays, etc. And thus, they were not well protected and taken with good care of for the most part
@@ACD1994 You are describing organic scarcity, which vintage cards have because they were not viewed as potential investments at the time of their release. Organic scarcity is a key attribute for the collectibility of anything, and stands in distinction to modern day "artificial" scarcity (i.e. numbered cards).
Yo Midlife cards. Tell Mike his pitching Criteria to get in the Hall is so far off. My guess is in 250 yrs from today they will loosen up the requirements to get into the HOF and let in a bunch of deserving frindge inductees that deserve it.
There should be accountability when it comes to grading cards. You as a collector are paying for an assessment and as part of the cost, the grading company should be able to provide an explanation as to how it reached its conclusion. CSG actually provides an explanation when it comes to altered cards. I had a trimmed card in a recent order and the slip of paper that came with the card explained the reasoning for the trimmed determination. They even provided a diagram of the card and circled the areas on the diagram they deemed trimmed. Like Mike said though, PSA has no accountability because as much as people complain about them, and as of late people have been complaining a lot, the majority of the cards being submitted for grading are still (begrudgingly) going to PSA. Until a significant portion of the card collecting community begin to submit elsewhere, it will be status quo/business as usual for PSA.
No one ever states the fact that PSA has a larager inventory of cards to choose than anyone in the market. Anyone building a collection sees that fact fast and starts a PSA collection whether they like it or not. The one thing that could improve grading is to factor centering twice into the overall grade of the card because it is the key quaility to eye appeal...not the only quality to eye appeal.
I thought Mike and I mentioned how much bigger PSA is. And you're right, because they're so big, it's easier to find their stuff to start a collection. Also, it does seem like centering is extremely important to collectors, so weighting it high is a very valid point.
It’s not sub grades, it’s not transparency, it’s not consistency.. it’s price, price, price.. when grading a card was sub $10 you hardly heard any of these concerns.
I think most people don't realize what graded cards allowed cards to now become better e-commerce and more and more that's how everything is being transacted now a days...
Subgrades could be big when AI takes over grading because you can have the computer grade the card based off certain zoom specs. The trick will be finding a fool proof way of scanning for surface issues, that will take some trial and error.
I think that's a great question, with a wide variety of opinions. A LOT of collectors prefer SGC. But, PSA has a registry that a lot of people are obsessed with. As a result, PSA always tends to have higher values and more demand. If you're planning on keeping the cards and you're not into the set registry, I would recommend SGC. If you think you may sell the cards in the not too distant future, I'd recommend PSA. Pros and cons with each.
It comes down to, I buy the card in the highest grade that I can afford (at that time). If you can afford the higher graded card (at that time) why would you buy a card with the lower grade?
Because it doesn't always make sense to spend 1000 dollars on a 7 when, you can get a 5 for, like 1/3rd ,of that price. Also, since there's a lot of subjectivity, and a numerical grade, is just an opinion...there's not always consistency. There are 4's that look better than 6's. People focus too much thought and attention into the grade, rather than the actual presentation (eye appeal) and if the card, is well centered.
@@MidLifeCards well if it’s not for an investment, then yes. If it’s for you to keep forever and never sell, then buy the lower grade with your preferable eye appeal Love you videos
You gotta love a hobby where nobody acknowledges the gigantic elephant center stage: sports cards are fun to collect, ok, but really have no intrinsic value. With the exception of a few pre-war rarities, it often seems to me the most "desirable" cards ought to top out at maybe $50 . . . and all the rest should go for 50 cents. Compared to precious gems, rare stamps and coins, first editions, comic books, original art and a thousand other "collectible" objects where obsession with minute flaws makes some kind of sense, exactly what would elevate Gem Mint 10 examples of a cheap mass-produced bubble gum trading card to museum quality? Or explain such ridiculous prices? Talk about bubbles waiting to burst, PSA runs one of the most jaw-dropping scams on earth -- it's like herd hypnosis.
Similar the the US Dollar. Nothing backs it, but as long as people agree to trade goods and services for it, then it has value. Crazy how the world works.
People that still use psa over sgc is for the greed aspect of selling that card. Set registery is the big difference in the companies right now. Once sgc makes thier set registery will be the changing of the guard!
@@MidLifeCards I've been watching all the psa and sgc reveals! And I came to the conclusion that psa's way more subjective, and the grading scale for both companies is different! I also noticed that people are sticking to thier guns, when it comes to selling! People are trying to sell $2.00 cards for $5-$6 apiece! That is greed!!!
You mention the amount of vintage that's out there, Think of the US population in the 1950's Vs today. and what these company's would produce. I believe most of the vintage that's being sold today is counterfeit. No way with the volume of vintage that's available that it was actually produced and preserved to the level they've been from the 50's and 60's. Using them same print presses as the vintage
Hmmm... I'm sure there are some fakes out there, but to say that "most of the vintage that's being sold today is counterfeit," isn't something I can agree with.
I think you are totally wrong. It just does not make sense to counterfeit a common from the 1957 Topps set that is worth a few dollars, yet there are plenty of those cards available as well. Topps and Bowman produced huge numbers of cards. Surveys showed that 89% of US boys collected baseball cards in the 1950s. Plus, those were baby boom times and people didn't live as long, so there were more kids relative to the overall population than today.
I see grading as a useful or necessary tool to authenticate, and you do have to kind of put some trust that the card is real and hasn't been altered or trimmed, when it comes to ''higher end cards,'' there's a higher possibility something may have happened. While most people in the hobby are trust worthy, not everyone is. And there are plenty of stories of people who trimmed cards, but that's another story for another time. Another good reason to grade which makes sense, is to protect the card, and having it, in a holder whether it's PSA, SGC or another company helps, display the card... As for the specific grades, there's just way too much subjectivity. This is evident, when you look at 3's and 6's and 4's and 7's there is not always that great of a discrepancy, and then there are potential other reasons cards are graded the way they are, such as intentionally keeping pop report down while this may be hard to prove, I think most of us agree this happens, and probably more likely than it should... The future of grading is an interesting conversation. While PSA, SGC and I guess I would put Beckett (their prices are still ahead of CSG), I also would like to see some of the others gain ground, but honestly, I just want to see more people, especially kids enjoy the hobby, and not worry so much and be upset with what the grade is, but that's just my 2 cents....
Not always true. I recently sold my 1964 Topps Aaron in a BGS 6.5 and used the money to buy a SGC 5. The SGC 5 looks like a 7, and the BGS 6.5 looks more like a 5. That's how I "upgraded". Glad I did.
@@alltimesportscards Very astute. I have ZERO confidence in BVG/vintage grading. I have no confidence in them to find trimmed cards, such that even cracking them and crossing over is a very risky play most of the time.
@@alltimesportscards Did you pay the going rate of a 7 for that 5? Probably not, you most likely paid the going rate of a 5. I'm saying no one is paying the going rate of a 7 for a 5 (provided they have the knowledge of the pricing) no matter how good the 5 looks. If they are paying a 7 price for a 5 that's foolish, when if they are patient, they could eventually find a 7 that looks just as good as the 5 they thought looks like a 7.
Because if you want to sell cards you gotta go with psa because people are to dumb to go with the company that makes sense. But if its going in my pc or if i am buying i go sgc
Look at any sgc 10 graded card. It's supposed to be perfect, right? Well the 2 sgc 10 cards I have both have factory flaws and would grade a psa 8, maybe a 9... but no fkn way it's a 10.. sgc is a joke from what I see as their 10's
Interesting. I don't have any SGC 10s and I don't have a ton of modern cards. At the end of the day, my recommendation would be to use the company you trust the most. If it's PSA, then I think that's who you should use. 80% of the cards I've graded have been to PSA. Only a few were to SGC. But, I think both companies are pretty good in the whole scheme of things.
To me Grading is a complete Sham.. its a person giving it a grade number putting it in plastic. Some of these people grading were hired off the street lol. Why pay more for a graded card when you can just buy the card ungraded and use the money you save from buying the same card for way more and buy others your looking for with that money. To me it's just a scam
I do understand that perspective. A lot of collectors feel that way, and I don't blame you. To me, it kind of feels like it's part of the hobby at this point and it's hard to go back. And, I do think one benefit is it provides protection for people buying cards through the mail/online.
