📙 FREE eBOOK on the wisdom of modern Orthodox Christian elders: social.protectingveil.com/freebook1 "I point out the things I must, but you will profit more when, rather than my saying many words, you yourself shed two or three tears before Christ." - Saint Amphilochios of Patmos, Precious Vessels of the Holy Spirit, p. 56.
I am reading this as I contemplate on the life to come, because we just lost a precious vessel of Grace yesterday with the passing of our dear sister in Christ Matushka Brigid Townsend, the wife of Father John Townsend, the Parish Priest of St. Mary of Egypt Orthodox Church in Roswell, Georgia. They belong to the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, and as I remember her, she taught me so much. She was, in this life, and still is my sponsor in AA and has been for many years. She had suffered so much pain and illness as I have throughout my entire life. All three of us converted to this Holy Faith, and our lives were affected more than any of us could have ever imagined. I don't think I ever could have been able to change until I became Orthodox. I was even told by my twin sister that I would never and could never change. She believed that our dna made us who we are, and there was no trying to change it. It's this fatalistic viewpoint of life that we're infected by even in PseudoChristianity today, and it's destroyed our whole outlook on the truth. When I became, (and am still becoming Orthodox), that's when things really began to happen in a way that I can only call miraculous, and I know I can't take any credit for anything that's happened. By the Grace of God, the Holy Trinity, I'm can live this life one day, and even one breath at a time. Glory to God!
That's a false dichotomy to say it's either high rituals or a sinner's prayer. Living out our Christian walk means caring for the orphan and the widows, not participating in rituals. James 1:27 Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Rituals were ordained by God, please read the Old Testament. Early Christians would disagree with you since Liturgical rituals/worship is not done away with in the new testament in fact it is consolidated and fulfilled in Christ. I dont understand this knee jerk reaction against rituals, do you not go to church and practice anything? do you not have bishops, deacons and presbyters?
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Why can't there be both? I haven't heard anyone advocate rituals in place of good works, which are the fruit of the spirit.
@@American-Jello There can definitely be both, but I think things like rituals can deceive us into thinking we're doing it, we're being Christian. But the real fulfillment is love.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Seems to me that the real fulfillment is becoming more Christ-like, by following His teachings, and therefore becoming closer to Him. Yes, love is part of that, but it's so much more complicated than just 'love'. What kind of love are we talking about? Eros? Philia? Agape? Knowing the difference and understanding it in the biblical context is critical to Christian understanding. Rock-style music in modern western churches could just as easily be something that either entirely distracts one from the bigger point or assists in getting someone closer to God, wouldn't you agree? The ritual isn't the issue, the heart and intention of the person doing the rituals and why are what really matters.
There is truth to what was said. I certainly can speak for myself... So often, I think one comes to Orthodoxy not fully appreciating the fact that being an Orthodox believer means dying to the world. It means taking up our cross, waging war with our temptations and fallen nature. It is work; there no such thing as faith alone. I'm too lazy some Sundays to get up for church, or I spend the better part of church mentally complaining about having to stand so long, and my private prayer life waxes and wanes, there's no regularity. Yet I expect to be enlightened and radiant with the Spirit by next Tuesday. Orthodoxy requires patience. Enlightenment, or acheivong perfect love, can take decades, and perhaps most never acheive it even after struggling that long. And yes, all the "pretty things" Orthodoxy has to offer can be a distraction. The source of all beauty is Christ--and I need to be reminded of that hourly. Sorry for the essay! ☦️🕯️
Her point about people looking into Orthodoxy because of an interest in Byzantine history/culture reminds me of what I often see in young converts like myself. I am 24 years of age, having converted in December 2017 when I was 21 years of age. Since then my faith has grown and gone through stages. But for a time I was so focused on society and how we can change the culture. I decried degeneracy, modernism, secularism, etc. Of course, I'm still at odds with those things, but I don't focus on them. Paul says to fix your minds on the things that are above (Colossians 3:2). Yes, there are many things about today's world that greatly sadden me, but the way forward is the risen Lord Jesus Christ. Not through scholastic theology, philosophical arguments, waging some kind of culture war by voting for the proper traditionalists, etc. But by imitating Christ, as Paul says elsewhere (1 Corinthians 11:1). Want to revitalize a pro-life culture? Donate to local non-profits that help pregnant women in crisis get the resources they need. Want to see the family unit be valued again? Start by loving your parents, grandparents, extended family, or spouse and kids if you have them. Want to see people convert? Quit berating them on Twitter. Invite a friend to Liturgy and understand that they aren't going to jump into Orthodoxy headlong on their first visit (nor should they, anyway). Understand that the person you hardly ever talk to may have seen you cross yourself at lunch, and though you never thought you two could even be friends, they want to know about your faith. The early Church was not a vehicle for fighting a culture. The early Church lived charitable Christian lives and let God work through them how He saw fit. Only God can fully change other people, and only when they surrender themselves to Him of their own free will. They get to that state by seeing how gracious Christians are called to be. There's more I could write but no one wants my wall of text. Anyway, thank you, as always, Dr. Middleton. I enjoyed this episode greatly.
Thank you so much for this! I'm a Baptist who's been seriously considering making the jump to Orthodoxy, but culture warriors like the ones you described have always made me wary and skeptical about the church. Your comment has given me hope--it's what I love to see and what I've been needing to hear. Jesus should be our focus.
I have only been Orthodox for abt a year, but I can see how the concerns Khourieh Frederica raised could happen. It’s true in Orthodoxy; it was also true in Protestant churches I was in. Some focused on their peace testimony, sometimes it was jockeying to become the head deacon, or to be in a great choir as soloist. We all have ways to put ourselves and other things before the Lord Jesus regardless of church affiliation. Lord have mercy on us!
Nice video. I spoke with Fr Allen yesterday, and he said the exact thing, his words; “ While reading and educating yourself is good, and commendable one must take care as to not put that in front of the Lord, and his church. Orthodoxy best understood is Orthodoxy lived.” I’ll be attending my first services this weekend. The journey begins .... ☦️
My wife and I are looking into becoming Orthodox - converting from Pentecostal / Charismatic - Evangelical streams. We LOVE hearing Frederica Mathewes-Green's story. Thank you for sharing this short interview and for your channel. I appreciate the mysticism of Orthodoxy, the historical aspect (Great Schism is about as much as I know thus far), and the tradition.
That's exactly what I needed to hear. I'm a Protestant that's on the search for absolute truth, His name is Jesus. I've been looking at Orthodoxy because you are the church where 'the gates of hell shall not prevail'. I honestly don't know what to do, but again, His name is Jesus, that's what (who) I must live for. God bless 'all' His children.
I needed to hear this, right here, right now. Thank you. This Sunday will be my 4th or 5th Sunday in a row of going back to Church. Previously I was a Roman Catholic who had quit going to Church about a decade ago. I felt called to go to the closest Eastern Orthodox Church that I could find to where I live and work. I prayed and cried and the greatest message to me, that helped me the most... I can be forgiven, I am a sinner, but I can be forgiven and to those who think they can't ...study the life of Saint Paul of Tarsus, Apostle Paul. You will understand that YOU too can be forgiven.
Excellent comments by Kh Frederica. It begins, continues and ends with Jesus Christ. Without him Orthodoxy is simply another religion and we are still lost. If he is forgotten nothing need be remembered.
Excellent series, Andrew. Frederica Mathews Greene is a favorite of mine and in this particular episode she voices something close to me as a convert. I was drawn to Orthodoxy by similar mystical encounters with Christ and as time passes on I struggle to hold on to this. Some Orthodox media have asked me for my conversion story but then don't follow through I suspect because it doesn't follow the theological debate premise. Who wants to hear about mystical encounters after all? And after becoming Orthodox I found that so few people want to talk about Jesus. Seems we are continuously confronted with that question, "Who do you say that I am?" Thanks for another thought provoking episode.
I love that this came up in my feed again tonight. It was last August 4th that we first attended our parish here in Albuquerque, NM; All Saints of North America Orthodox Church. My wife, children and I will be brought into the Church by Baptism and Chrismation this Wednesday, August 5th, 2020, and our first Eucharist will be on the next day, Thursday, the Transfiguration. Glory to God! What strikes me about this video is that is was Christ Himself that broughtus to the Orthodox Church. It was my wife seeing Christ in me that convinced her it was real. In fact she has said many times that I am now, "really and finally a Christian." So while the Liturgy is beautiful, while the Saints are real, while the theology is historical, none of that matters one itoa compared to the fact that in the Orthodox Church you find the fullness of Christ. It is Him that makes it right. It is Him that makes it worth it. All of it is worth it.
There were several videos a number of years ago by Frank Schaeffer discussing why Orthodoxy was the true faith.....he was an excellent speaker.....I was stunned to learn that he is now an atheist....so your comment is true, at least in this case.
I feel, as a protestant inquiring into orthodoxy, my greatest comfort in dealing with the tantalizing reality of the orthodoxy life is the concept of theosis, and God's energies. How the saints and the liturgy and how everything points to christ, and wouldn't be there if not for him. I feel like if people are distracted it's because they aren't in the right place spiritually and intellectually, they need to be shaken awake, and it's up to good priests and teachers like Frederica mathewes-green to do that.
It sounds to me like she was describing the "God" box. People like the the pretty decorations but, they expect God to do what they want when they want and it just doesn't work that way. God inspired all of the beautiful icons, the vestments, everything that can be distractions . They are part of His story. So many people you interview I would love to just sit in on one of their lectures. Thank you so much for doing these videos.
All religions have this potential - to become distracted by various trappings, either external or internal. It doesn’t matter how stripped down a religion is either. Human nature is such that politics often become the focus, no matter how sincere a person may have been when they first started practicing.
The “stuff” of Orthodoxy ... we have all gotten caught up in that . It is really unavoidable there has to be people who by leadership and example show that is not all there is. We put away childish things and when we do we are transformed.
Once you reach that point of only desiring Christ is the moment you're ready to become Orthodox. The weeks leading up to my Chrismation were full of the most beautiful moments while in church, but full of some of the biggest temptations while outside in the world. I'd say to anyone who is seriously considering, be on guard... your doubts and temptations will be on a level unseen.
I was looking for a Church nearby and it so happened I found a small Orthodox group. Or they found me. I got interested and been there a few times now and tried to found out more. Orthodox Christianity is almost unheard of in Sweden. Even Christianity disappearing. My concern has been that Jesus disappear behind the liturgy the intellectual and a bit mystic theology and the Saints. But I've noticed that as a Protestant that been mostly to evangelical Churches before I did have some prejudices. And I've discovered that I actually agree with alot and feel good about the liturgy .
Powerful words indeed. I'm thankful that, in my case, the truth in Orthodoxy was what made me accept Jesus, but i do struggle in leaving things behind. I don't know at all How to live an Orthodox life in the world, i feel guilty everytime I do things that are not related to God, but I don't know If it's God telling this or the If i'm Just confused.
Do you really mean "distractions"? Surely not; the holy icons, the exquisite melodies, the beautiful liturgy- these are reminders of our purpose, windows into reality and crutches for our hard path. We can be distracted by anything; we are blessed with a wealth of inspired prayers handed down by artists and men and women of God. When we read them we are distracted from the world and put directly before the truth they contain. The Orthodox church is a safe haven, not a diabolical temptation.
I am a member of syrian orthodox church in kerala,india.we have 7 prayer hours in 24 hrs,but most pray only 2 times.i pray 7 times every day.i don't ask questions why I should pray 7 times,but i pray.god is giving me blessings in many ways which I don't understand.i don't want to understand.
I see her point, but you can't separate Jesus from Orthodoxy. The Orthodox Church is His body. Loving the liturgy is part of loving Jesus. Don't start separating Jesus from Orthodoxy, that will only end in Protestantism.
I came to Orthodoxy out of sheer curiosity. Living and practicing Judaism I was hoping to see some familiar Jewishness in the Church. But it never happened. Now I got baptized almost 4 months ago because I thought it was the right thing to do. But I’m experiencing guilt (not peace). Because I know I don’t have the strength to live a holy life. I suffer from depression and anxiety which is a daily cross in itself. How can also carry a cross to wage war against temptations? I doubt there is hope for me. How can we call it hope if one could loose his/her salvation at the drop of a hat? How is that hope? To me that’s fear. My relationship with God has turned from peaceful and joyful to fearful and guilt ridden. I never should have jumped into this so quickly. It would have been better if I never got baptized in the first place. The sad part is I don’t want to continue this road because I didn’t found what I was looking for. In fact I don’t know what I’m looking for. I don’t share the same love for Orthodoxy as I did for my former faith (Judaism). I can’t go back to being Jewish because my concept of Judaism has changed since I came to Orthodoxy. I’m stuck in limbo and don’t know where to go. I believe Jesus is Messiah. But I have nowhere else to go. I’m stuck. Cheers.
@Tertius Carstens, I will pray for you. I've been where you are. In fact, very soon after my conversion I went through a time of intense despair like you are describing. Are you reading the bible? There are many passages that helped minister to me during that time, and do so continually in times like it. When you have guilt? Remember that, "if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our hearts, and knows all things" (1 John 3:20) When you fear you may loose your salvation 'at the drop of a hat,' remember that "He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus" ( Philippians 1:6); and read Christ's own words of love in John chapter 10, where he tells us, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of my Father's hand." Read his prayer for us before he died in John 17! Will the one who suffered so much on our behalf relinquish us so easily? Also, "May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it" (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24). When you feel the weight of the cross of temptations and depression, recall Christ's words in Matthew 11, "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Chrysostom expounds: "Not this or that person, but all that are in anxiety, in sorrows, in sins. Come, not that I may call you to account, but that I may do away your sins; come, not that I want your honor, but that I want your salvation. 'For I,' says He, 'will give you rest.' He said not, 'I will save you,' only; but what was much more, 'I will place you in all security.'" Be encouraged by 1 Corinthians 10, "No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it." Recall too, God's faithfulness and kindness to all the prophets and patriarchs, who also were tempted, struggled and sinned! We do have hope in Christ Jesus, friend. We can also find peace and rest in Him. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. For as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too." (2 Corinthians 1:3-5)
Prayers is the way to go and it would also be beneficial to seek priestly advice regarding your state... Use Jesus Prayer: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have a mercy on me, a sinner". Repeat it several dozen times daily or even more. It is powerful weapon against the apathy and despair. God bless you brother.!
You are so right, but the bible says that God made us children, NOT that he would write us out of the will at the drop of a hat. Do you write your children out of your will if they disappoint you once?
The biggest temptation for me is the fact that I have such a dim view of humanity. I loathe the world and I detest people. I depend on Christ to love people through me in spite of myself otherwise there is no hope of me showing any regard for humanity which I see as disgusting horrible wretched fools. No different than myself of course before I was saved. I just do not suffer fools, and that's all there are. Damn fools. God help me
I hear you loud and clear. But your remark about depending upon Christ to supply the “love” that you cannot feel in an intellectual and/or emotional way is a holy sign that-even if you do not realize it-you have found the pearl of great price: dependence upon the Person of Christ. Love God and treat others as you would wish to be treated, but do not rush to pressure yourself to “feel” what is not sincere to your spirit intellectually or emotionally. Do what you can and ask Christ patiently to do what you cannot do. He understands. Keep looking to Christ on this specific matter. You are not alone and remember … “love” is not warm fuzzy “feelings” and false embraces and rainbows. Love does not have to come with a smile to be genuine. It can be tough and difficult and painful at times. Fraught with challenge. Love leaves no room for the toleration of evil, but it does leave room for mercy. These more realistic, practical aspects of love are not emphasized enough in the churches, in my view. You’re in my prayers, Sir. Keep to Christ. He’ll direct you in ways that *you* require. God Bless.
This is so foreign to me because I am so in love with Jesus that I cant even understand this. Maybe because I'm a woman and its easy to view him as a husband, like a nun, but He is my heart.
Actually, on this exact topic, are there any resources you can recommend online for exactly this? Having Christ at the center, becoming closer to Jesus, but from Orthodox sources? I'm having a problem in the opposite direction, perhaps.
There are many wonderful books you can read...but perhaps _Wounded by Love_ by St. Porphyrios would be a good place to begin. (What do you mean, btw, by "I'm having a problem in the opposite direction, perhaps"?)
@@ProtectingVeil I am overwhelmed by Christ, by conversion, by the entire experience. Thank you, I will look into that, and I got some recommendations at church as well. Thank you again.
Gospel is the differentiator..Justification by faith alone, in Christ alone!! I need to know if Orthodoxy has it..if not, I truly wonder why it has the core of the Gospel message
We’re saved by God’s grace. Not because we say that we are saved because we say we believe in Jesus as God. That’s just the first step on the way to salvation. Also, St. Paul told his churches to remember everything that he taught them whether by word of mouth or epistle. He lived with each church sometimes for years. He discussed more things with them than just what’s in the little epistle written to them. That’s where we get Traditions from.
@@maxdl1034 Your right we have to live our lives in a way that proves that we really do believe it. And that doesn't mean going to church, it means how we treat people.
And what most Protestant Fundamentalists seem to do, is give authority to the Bible (inspired written word) before Jesus to which it is a witness. JESUS the LIVING WORD in the flesh realized and made real through God's faith in ourselves.
I was orthodox until I was born again and saw that justification was by faith alone in Christ alone (see Romans and Galatians). Once someone is born again they will produce works (James 2) but works are neither the ground nor the cause of salvation.
@Conquering Death Thank you for your response. Christ is one thing and His worship is another. Worship is paramount in what it means to be human. Biblical worship, as limited by Scripture, centers us on God in Christ. The Spirit brings to us the benedictions merited by the Son of the Father through Word and Sacrament. To conflate the human activity into the divine is a grave error.
To be honest I see some issues with whats being said. For one, I dont think the catalyst for moving someone towards Orthodoxy should be proper as a prerequisite to become a Catechumen. It shouldnt matter what brings someone to a desire to become a Catechumen since the Catechumanate is designed to teach and form one to be accepted into the body of Christ. In regards to the liturgical ‘terrorists’, on the other hand being too flippant about liturgy is to be flippant to Sacred Tradition. It matters how we worship
Is what we're seeking a god-feeling place that feels like we're really doing it, or are we seeking the true living God who created the heavens and the earth and you and died in your place so that you could live if you give up your own will to follow him?
@@jeffreyperez2178 I guess it's my opinion that you should be a born again Christian BEFORE joining. I think true conversion isn't something that can be factory lined, and I know the Catholic church and I'm guessing the Orthodox doesn't put an emphasis on gospel preaching like baptist churches do on Sundays - the emphasis is on the ritual and the eucharist. I was Catholic for 7 years and didn't really become a Christian. It's something only God can lead. And joining because the history is cool and the rituals are cool is completely meaningless if you're not a Christian.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Its clear to me that you havent been to an Orthodox service. If you attend daily services in the Orthodox Church, you’ll read/listen to the New Testament every year with a good chunk of Old Testament readings if you attend evening prayer. This isnt even including the fact that pious Orthodox read the entire book of Psalms every week. Baptist services read a very small chunk of scripture followed by an hour sermon of a pastor’s personal opinion which is often separated from the Apostolic tradition. Catholics include an Old Testament reading, Epistle reading, Gospel reading and psalms in every service. If you attend daily mass and read the liturgy of the hours, you’ll read most of entire canon of scripture every 3 years. To say that radical evangelicals ‘focus’ more on scripture simply isnt true. The Orthodox Paschal service (a.k.a Easter) alone is hours of scripture (literal hours!). You focus mainly on ritual instead of Orthodoxy holistically and forget that the Old Testament has an entire book on how the levitical priesthood is supposed to worship and celebrate services.
@@jeffreyperez2178 I agree that it's not good when the sermon goes off with opinion and whatnot. But it depends on the pastor of course. I've never been to an Orthodox service, but I've been to many Catholic ones and I'm guessing they're similar. The denomination isn't what matters so much, you just need to be around other born again Christians and have the gospel message preached and edify each other, as the bible says the purpose of church is. That's what Catholics say that you'll read most of bible every 3 years - I don't buy it! Yes the OLD testament was all about rituals. But we are not the levitical priesthood and the new testament has NO specifics on ritual. I think the old testament was about the physical and the new testament is about the spiritual. I'm interested if Orthodox services really are substantially more focused on getting ALL of scripture and preaching the gospel than Catholic services, which have a couple cherry picked readings but it's mostly about the eucharist.
I refrain from interest because I don't have much hope, would love to be proven wrong, that I could finda church/congregation in which I can understand the Liturgy
Forgive my comment but it is not our job to "collect" new believers. Our job is to change our self and through our change we make an example for others to see and follow. But even that is God's will. God is calling people. Not us....
I am sorry, but how could you be a Christian without being member of the one and only Church? There is only one REAL way to love Jesus and this is through the Church (which is the Orthodox one). Could you be saved outside of the Church? There are not many truths, there is only one! One truth, one Church. In order to convert and get baptised (not just chrismated), as our holy Fathers say, you should get under catechism for a long period. Moreover, it is better preaching after many years in Orthodoxy. According to the Fathers again. God bless you...
The Church is the vehicle of God's salvation and we must lead people to the Truth. The beauty of our faith is that the Truth is not an abstract set of principles but a person, the Logos incarnate, Jesus the Christ. We must lead people to Christ who is the way, truth, and life. Who is to be found in His Church. But His grace can and does reach out to those outside of her walls, drawing people closer. Without knowing Christ the people we bring to Liturgy with us wont stay, because it is ultimately about unity with God.
I kind of agree with this too. We cannot separate Christ from His Church, which is His mystical body on earth. So my thought is: what difference does it make how or why a person gets to Christ's Church, as long as he gets there? As a disenchanted Protestant, I wonder if the Orthodox make it too hard sometimes?
So if you believe the Orthodox church is the one truth church, the bride of Christ, do you believe that people who come to have faith that God created us as it says in the bible, that the bible is the word of God, that the old testament prophesized Jesus, that Jesus was God incarnate and died for our sins that through faith and following and trusting in him we can be saved, that this is in fact a lie, that we will not be saved?
@@EricBryant You're seeing the Orthodox church as the bus to heaven. Get on the bus and you're good. That's a dangerous way of thinking. I see church as a gathering of believers who edify you. It is the HELP to you, NOT the free ticket to heaven.
@Conquering Death Anything that takes the place of God maybe I would rephrase. I see Mary as inching her way through the centuries from almost non-existent in the new testament to what she is seen as now, where the Muslims thought she was one of the three parts of the trinity.
@Conquering Death Distraction would make you feel guilty about doing just about everything in your life! That doesn't seem like a very peaceful way to live lol.
