What is The Pale Man? 

You will give a single character a side quest in your world so we can taste it ! now go !

This is tempting but I fit into all the categories they list. I live in all worlds except the real one.

Talebot, trying to be freaky: It's not... really... Me: A monster? Yeah go figure. Nothing ever is with you, is it?

World Anvil is terrible on android phones. The whole ui is broken.

Well put 👏

ITS mostly about systhemic abuse of Kids, where every offer and what should BE safe and obvious to BE Provider Turns into a Trap, the Foster sythem where many Take in Kids for the funds and abuser them, orphanages, abusive teachers . . . .she also did Not Take Something of the table our of greed, ITs Not gold or jewlery, she Takes Something Out of pure Hunger. She also does Not gorge herself which would BE glutony, she tries to Take what she needs and what should BE for free thats what makes IT so much scaryer. She did Not get punished for a sin, but for a Basic need. ITS Not Just offers that Look to good in generell, ITS offers to those WHO need them the Most, of how asking for Help and trying to Accept IT can terribly Hurt you. Thats what makes the Pale man so much worse then the usual Deal with the devil figure

You could also look at it like this: The table is the allure that leads you to it, shows you what it offers, but consumes you if you partake.

The trope of consequences after eating the food of the Other world is an ancient one: think Persephone eating the pomegranates of the underworld, or various fairytales warning of the dangers of eating faerie food.

I like this a lot. Well done, my friend.

Interesting! It's a very different interpretation from Del Toro's. I'm not as concerned with canonicity as I am with symbolism, but this is cool! I didn't know this book was a thing -Benji, showrunner

@@TheTaleFoundry I've read the book and it is really good. I highly recommend you read it on a rainy day.

@@TheTaleFoundry Del Toro actually co-wrote it. I quite like the fact that the man went from literal institutional evil to symbol of said evil, aka, he was so evil that he turned into a fairytale monster. I don't think the Faun created the Pale Man, but simply used him as a part of the test. This creature is far too messed up to be simply a disguise or fabrication. 😅😱

​@@TheTaleFoundrywhat was His Interpretation of the origin Story? Cause I See No difference or contradiction of IT to what IS in the movie

@@SingingSealRianawell for starters, the faun literally describes the pale man as “what lies there isn’t human” so it couldn’t have been an inquisitor turned into a monstrous cannibal, but rather another faerie.

Beautifully said

Ever heard of that Japanese urban legend I think the pale Man is based on that legend

So what if i just eat his eyes what then?

but what did other people do

It’s called a tenemo it’s more dangerous as its sense it has great senses.

​@@BugermanchiIts name is "Te-no-me (手の目)" or "Tenome‐bozu (手の目坊主)."

Yeeees now somebody is on my line these people don't know he's based off a Japanese urban legend 😊

That just sounds random af. Man was like "I wish to see! Even if it were a terrible way, I wish to see!" And then he eats your bones. Like tf happened between then and now that he ears bones I've gotta be missing something

She still risked her life over something dumb. I had times where I haven't eaten in over 20 hours and still wouldn't be dumb enough to do the "DONT DO THAT" thing in the room with the big scary monster. I understand movies do this stuff but I always hoped she would die there even when I watched the movie as a kid.

@@KuroiShiAnimu You have to remember that she has lived in the wartime Spain. She is probably severly malnourished beyond the punishment. Also I bet that there was some kind of magic involved.

well she isnt you and you arent goin gon in fatastical trails are you?@@KuroiShiAnimu

@@taiganb3463who knows maybe they are

I agree. It's hard not to notice that the Pale Man has all this food around him yet can't even spare a grape for a starving girl. All she wanted was table scraps, the Pale Man hoards them without needing them and punished those who dare to ask for something they need.

Yeah disobeying was also what got her the dagger in that scene too, since fairies were pointing to the middle door but she then shook her head, instead using the key on the door on the left

Alternately, the Pale Man laughs and congratulates you on passing the test.

What if that's how you turn into the pale man and kill the previous one?

@@HyperdiskWhat if a cannibal child goes to the Pale Man? What would he do when the child began to eat him? 🤔

@@StoryLover-7 He eats the child

​@@vladyvhv9579Tbh, I'd rather have that thing chase me than imagening it laughing

I watched this movie with my younger sister when we both were little, she had nightmares about the pale man for years and we never rewatched the movie

After watching this movie with my family, they started watching movies before family movie night to avoid seeing such scary monsters accidentally. And yet, I enjoyed it so much.

ITS one of very few truely unsettling Horror creatures cause IT IS so unsettling human in a wax

I remember seeing the pale man in promotional material/posters for the movie as a kid and being already scared by that, it certainly prevented me from watching it as a kid. Interesting to hear more about what this movie and the pale man are actually about after so many years, since that picture of the pale man with his eyes in his hands was the only thing I saw about this movie before.

Holy shit yeah that scared me for months. I imagined him watching me from the shadows

I mean them waving No, shaking their heads and trying to grab her away, were all pretty universally telling she was being SUPER hardheaded as she shood them away

That is only true if one has bought into Enlightenment ideologies, whether it be liberalism, communism or any other ideologies that stem from the Enlightenment, which includes fascism. All Enlightenment ideologies have some from or element of revolutionary politics, the wanting for a dramatic change in a society, and as its easy to get 'carried away' as it were, the end result of Enlightenment ideologies is something like fascism, and I don't mean Umberto Eco Ur-fascism, which is about as accurate as a blind darts player, no, if you want to know what fascism is, then read Giovanni Gentile's 'The Doctrine of Fascism' and the 'Manifesto of Fascist Intellectuals' to get a proper understanding, just as you would need to read Marx and Engels communist manifesto to get a a proper understanding of communism or Hobbes, Locke, & Rousseau with liberalism or Adam smith and David Ricardo with Free Trade. If you do not subscribe to Enlightenment ideologies you have little danger of being consumed by any of them, including fascism. Also, Franco was not a fascist, he was not a revolutionary, his intention was not to seek a dramatic change in Spanish society, contrary to popular belief, he wanted to preserve and protect his nation from revolutionary and destructive change, (which he mostly succeeded). if Franco was anything, he was a something like a pragmatic reactionary, he was not that far off a sort of 'Spanish Cromwell', but less successful at making Spain a wealthy and powerful nation which Cromwell had done for England. Also like Cromwell, there is a Monarchist or at least monarchical sway to Franco, if nothing else, but despite Franco's base including but not limited to fascists, Franco him self was not a fascist nor was Spain fascist, more like, reactionary Catholic Spanish conservatism... not Fascism. Also, I can not stress this enough, I am not a Francoist, I'm an Englishman, not even a Catholic, so Franco is of zero relevance to me and England, thought I am an English reactionary, but that is of zero relevance. I thought I'd get that out there before people jump down my throat accusing me of believing things I do not subscribe to, or worse.

thats an interpretation not an opinion.

What if we destroy them?

Yeah the second my family and I saw the eyes and the monster, we immediately guessed those were HIS eyes or his dinner. He was a monsters based on the blood on his hands and we immediately said "there's a fire right behind you. Throw those things in there and gorge."

In metaphorical terms. When partaking in evil, make sure the eyes of punishment are looking away.

The vulnerability adds to the scariness of the monster.

I would first get the shears from the middle door and just kill the Pale Man with them before going to town on that buffet.

Yes, very yes

Agreed!

My main question for years has been, where have I seen eyes in hands before Pan's Labyrinth? Why didn't it seem new? Removable eyes, sharable eyes, yes, but eye sockets in the hands? And don't say Evangelion. That's something different.

​@@VinemapleJesus, maybe? He has holes in his palms.

@@Vinemaple​​⁠​⁠ There is a Japanese yokai named Tenome with similar features to the pale man, eyes on the hands, eyeless head, similar body shape, etc.

Theres another story from the creator where he used to be a boy who killed small animals for fun. He grew up as an inquisition member and loved it, torturing others every day. Eventually, he backstabbed his superior and ate his heart, after that his eyes became so sick of the violence they popped out.. and he could'nt get them to stay in the sockets, so he sliced both his arms slits for them to rest there

Absolutely! The man is a legend

I want to know more, does it have eyes in its palms? Because I always felt I'd read about that somewhere.

@@Vinemaple It does! The Tenome is described as an old person (around eighty or so years) that has eyes on both palms rather than on its face. It first appeared on a wall scroll painting from the Edo Period (year 1737) called the Hyakkai Zukan (translated as 'The Illustrated Volume of a Hundred Demons') by the artist Sawaki Suushi and later appeared again in a book published in 1776 titled the Gazu Hyakki Yagyo (translated as 'The Illustrated Night Parade of a Hundred Demons' or as 'The Illustrated Demon Horde's Night Parade') which originated as a reference to said wall scroll painting. I learned of the Pale Man first after seeing Pan's Labyrinth around the time it first released over here in the States, and years later, I became fascinated by the subject of Japanese youkai and when I first saw the Tenome, my mind immediately recalled the Pale Man because they look similar. I hope that helps!

yeah the pale man is based on it lol

Del Toro is unreliable at best. When this film was released he said that Pale Man’s appearance was based on HIiS OWN appearance, and the way he felt. Because he had lost a lot of weight, and viewed himself as sickly, pale and empty looking. If you ask him today, it’s about white supremacy and colonizers. Because that’s what is in right now.

I think it's a pretty common design choice. He could have also been based on the hairy guy from "AAahhh! Real Monsters!" First you decide you want to move the eyes to add some freakiness. Where would you put the eyes? The hands are the next logical place if not on the head. Anywhere else would be pretty goofy lol.

i was always inclined to read her decision to eat the food as an intentionally maddening or illogical one, representative of the controlling society around her. even the most measured person can act on instinct rather than intellect when the situation is dire (in the previous scene, she is denied dinner by her mother because she got her dress dirty and is sent to bed early, hence she is likely acting out of hunger - one of the most foundational human instincts.) her hunger then contrasts the insatiable greed of the pale man and the men at vidal's table - who have lots of food but always seem to want more. additionally, i would disagree that ofelia acts smart and sensible all the time, her story is built on disobedience and throughout the film she acts with clear disregard for any rules both in the human and fantasy world.

Im not buying it. the greed here is no symbolism for the righteous hunger than someone has after being intentionally starved for no fault of their own, especially during an injust dynamic like the one she found herself in. She had so much natural fear for so many things and still an inner defiance, not a single living being would turn their back on that monstrosity and I dont think she would have either. They could have had her reach out to the food, her struggling to choose between her fear of the being and the warning, and her intense hunger .... and before she even gets to tmake the desiicion for herself, she touches the food and the creature awakens. I don tlike when the audience has to "make it make sense." @mp5

It wasn't random though. Her mom made her go to bed without food because she dirtied her dress. At the end of the day she is a child. A hungry child isn't logical. I think it makes total sense.

What's even more maddening is how people try so hard to explain this away with theories clearly *not supported by the film*. Maybe del Toro had an intent, but he left the audience confused and frustrated. I understand the sequence is great and everyone wants it to be *perfect*, but minor tweaks could have fixed this glaring issue. When you don't communicate your character's motives, you fail your audience.

​@@Jugem16 What feels supported by the facts is that Ophelia is a starving child in a fantastical environment where ultimately everything is stacked against her. It has been demonstrated time and again that giving humans an instruction of what they not to do, only increases the temptation. Ophelia is a hungry child, who was sent to bed without food. She sees the feast and decides to take only a small bite, just a single grape. 'Who would miss it.' Such an innocent temptation like a child who steals a piece of gum. Yes, it's wring but it doesn't feel so significant and it's not like you're hurting anyone, that is usually the thought process.

Black hmm 🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨

You somehow have managed to miss all other instances of scary pale humanoids in fiction... Strange.

@@SergioLeonardoCornejo I’m not saying The Pale Man is the only pale horror character. I’m saying unlike The Pale Man most horror characters are in dark colours.

@@MinisDunyasi5 and you would remain mistaken. Pale humanoid is a classic trope.

@@SergioLeonardoCornejo It is classic but not as common as dark creatures lurking in the shadows.

Yeah, the shrike IS amazing

The Skrike is a nightmare.

and since anyone else but the protagonist in there would be trapped they'd be forced to eventually break the rule due to their own biological needs. the system traps you, demands obedience, and forces you to disobey so it can justify what it does to you.

Yet another fine corollary to the main interpretation!

reminds me of certain groups of people who claim they are victims despite being at the very top of the social hierarchy and holding both immense soft and hard power.

Every political group thinks the other political group is like this.​@@Nikotheleepic

@@Hater_Ultima true, but not everyone is correct.

You must watch it...there really is nothing like it.

I saw it during spanish class in high school, it's a really great film.

Doug Jones has done such amazing creature and character work. Very neat :)

The calm, insightful, empathetic pace of the videos makes every one a beautifully fluid work of storytelling. It leaves your mind abuzz with ideas, a work of passion inspiring the creation of others.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Bruh 😂😂😂😂

Adding to this I'd love to hear a discussion about stories that are designed to appear comedic but are horrifying and terrible under the surface

whatdya mean? Pale man was done by Doug Jones.

​@@captainleonox3818 It's a joke. Mitch McConnell is an American conservative politician who happens to look like the Pale Man.

Fun fact: The Pale Man wasn't originally part of the script. Mitch McConnell just showed up on set one day and tried to devour the lead actress while the cameras were rolling.

@@captainleonox3818Don’t make us r/whoosh you.

Same, I watched it with my dad when I was like 10 years old, and that scene shocked me so much as a kid. Never watched the movie again but now I have to watch it for my Spanish class 🥲

Happy birthday ChiChi!