Тёмный

What Is The Right Height For A Hand Tool Workbench ? 

RobCosman.com
Подписаться 324 тыс.
Просмотров 30 тыс.
50% 1
ВидеоПоделитьсяСкачатьДобавить в

Rob Cosman talks about how to determine the right workbench height for you
----------
If you like our content please LIKE us, SUBSCRIBE to our RU-vid channel, and RING THE BELL to be notified whenever we release a new video.
_______
* MOXON VISE BUILD VIDEO: • Benchtop Moxon Vise Bu...
* SUBSCRIBE TO ROB"S MONTHLY WOODWORKING TIPS NEWSLETTER - lp.constantcontactpages.com/s...
* SUBSCRIBE TO ROB'S RU-vid CHANNEL TO TAKE YOUR WOODWORKING TO THE NEXT LEVEL: / robcosmancom
* POPULAR VIDEO PLAYLISTS:
- Sharpening Plane Blades and Chisels: • Sharpening Hand Plane ...
- Hand Plane Basics: • Hand Plane Basics
- Woodworking Tips and Tricks: • Woodworking Tips & Tricks
- Hand Cut Dovetails: • Dovetails by Hand
- Best of Rob Cosman Videos: • Best of Rob Cosman You...
- Tool Reviews: • Tool Reviews
- Rob Cosman Workbench: • Rob Cosman Workbench
* SUBSCRIBE TO ROB'S ONLINE WORKSHOP - robcosman.com/pages/rob-s-onl...
* LIVE RU-vid WORSHOPS - Every other saturday at 6:00pm Eastern Time
* QUESTIONS - Have a question about the Tools, Techniques, or Anything Else you saw in this video? Post your question in the comments section of this video!
* VISIT OUR STORE - To learn more or purchase any of the tools you saw Rob use in this video, please visit our retail store at www.robcosman.com
* LEARN ABOUT ROB'S PURPLE HEART PROJECT: robcosman.com/pages/php-what-...
* DONATE TO THE PURPLE HEART PROJECT: robcosman.com/products/how-to...
* FOLLOW US ON SOCIAL MEDIA:
FACEBOOK - / robcosman
INSTAGRAM - / robcosman_handtoolwood...

Хобби

Опубликовано:

 

26 окт 2022

Поделиться:

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист
Посмотреть позже
Комментарии : 86   
@jamesnasmith984
@jamesnasmith984 Год назад
The knowledge, logical thinking and speaking skills make an excellent teacher. Touché.
@paulbedell5483
@paulbedell5483 Год назад
Your “leg spreading” idea and suggestion for chiseling not only improved my results but lengthened my time at the bench and decreased back fatigue (as a taller guy, I bent over far too much). I use a similar approach for sawing and planing to keep my back relaxed and comfortable for longer. I prefer to be higher and on top of the plane as you describe to use my legs; the foot width in the other two operations make working more productive and comfortable. Great video!
@jimhyslop
@jimhyslop Год назад
Thanks for this video! This may be the first video I've seen where anyone has suggested jigs to raise the work. Most of the others stop after explaining the three main types of work, and leave it to you to figure out the rest. I'm currently building my first workbench, working on an old, beat up WorkMate and a couple of light metal sawhorses from Canadian Tire. When it comes to figuring out the exact height, I will use scrap lumber on those temporary stands to raise the bench top to the height that feels right, and measure from there. I'm also going to make the legs a bit longer than I think I'll need, because I have yet to find a wood stretcher that works well 🤣
@jimfromri
@jimfromri Год назад
Great video. Too many RU-vid experts focus on the ideal workbench height for planning. That’s great if you’re always dimensioning rough stock by hand. But it makes a very low bench for other tasks as you explain. I’m a “hybrid” woodworker as I use machines to dimension stock and hand tools for joinery and to finish surfaces. Therefore, I prefer a higher bench. Helps my back and gets the work closer to my “mature” eyes. Thanks for making and sharing this video.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
I totally agree
@dukeengine1339
@dukeengine1339 Год назад
This answered a question I have asked at least three times for the live streams and never got considered! Never too late, thank you
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Glad we finally got your questions answered.
@joeleonetti8976
@joeleonetti8976 Год назад
Thanks Rob. Jim Toplin has a nice short video giving a tour of his shop. Essentially, he has three different bench areas in his shop to optimize for the three different operations like you discussed.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Yes, Luther has been in Jims tiny shop. He says its well thought out
@kentboys5017
@kentboys5017 Год назад
Great explanation of a topic that is unique to each individual. You gave us three points to guide us on how to choose the height. Your wisdom is always appreciated. Great Video thank you for sharing. Take care. 👍🏻
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Great to hear! Please call Luther about PHP he has a question for you
@sueb4154
@sueb4154 Год назад
Great advice and great changes were made here!
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Glad you think so!
@emersonassis7154
@emersonassis7154 Год назад
Hi Rob...one more time a very helpfull video class...in the past (before my father pass way) we used the same bench (no space for other)...but he was taller than me and we did two hinged extra feet for change the height in four extra inches for better ergonomics to him.After him leave us I add casters for move easily.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Great solutions
@hassanal-mosawi4235
@hassanal-mosawi4235 Год назад
Thanks for sharing those tips!
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Our pleasure!
@robertbamford8266
@robertbamford8266 Год назад
Excellent observations. As I watched you demonstrate, it seemed like you consistently achieved a relaxed stance with your elbow at 90 degrees holding the tool. That might provide a good starting point. And as you said, it’s not like the bench height can’t be modified.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Exactley
@bryanmcwhirter9945
@bryanmcwhirter9945 Год назад
Still have my Tage Frid books and many others so this is like whose chillu is best ? Moms or grandmas or mother inlaw. You can always raise a bench, you cant lower it with out serious work! Thankyou Rob for brining this issue back. Bryan from Canada.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Moms chili is always best
@gw8362
@gw8362 Год назад
The idea I’m going to try for determining the height of my new bench is to use an adjustable ironing board. It wouldn’t be stable or strong enough to actually perform those activities, but I should be able to simulate them while holding the respected tools and see what works best for me.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
I think its a good idea
@MrSharper802
@MrSharper802 Год назад
I built the Christopher Schwarz Roubo bench. I agree with everything Schwarz says except bench height. He favors a lower bench that is better for processing stock. Works great for 18th century France, however most modern woodworkers use the bench for final planjng, sawing, joinery, and assembly not rough processing of stock. So a taller bench I believe is a better option as Rob discusses. Since I already built the Roubo lower I decided to make a seperate joinery bench with a Moxon front vise mainly for sawing.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
You two bench solution is actually what most of those 17 century workshops did too!!!!!
@69sound81
@69sound81 Год назад
I would make a cheap but sturdy bench with a 3/4" plywood top, use it for a week and add annother 3/4" plywood on top, and repeat until it is too much to do something basic like use the plainer. Then, go back to the first setting and feel it for 1 day, go up to the exact middle of those setups and get a feel for it. Play with it for a while until it feels perfect. Most people end up adjusting to the bench in no time, so the play will make anyone feel the difference in the adjusting time being too long or almost instant. And, at the end, all that plywood is gonna be used for some other build, so it will cost virtually nothing to make the prototype bench before the final one.
@colinscowen9621
@colinscowen9621 Год назад
I have built a couple of 'experimental' benches over the 20 or so years I have been woodworking. I have found that 'experimental' tends to last a long time 🙂 AS a tip for beginners, with not much room, I did build a couple that were designed to sit on top of my workmate. These had the advantage that as well as the simple dual height options with the flip up legs on the workmate itself (useful if the kids wanted to do something), you could relatively easily adjust the height with a piece of sheet goods as a sacrificial top.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Interesting idea using two workmates as supports
@colinscowen9621
@colinscowen9621 Год назад
@@RobCosmanWoodworking It was actually only one workmate, but as long as the tools were sharp, it wasn't really a problem. One was a simple torsion box with a full width end vise. The other was a double torsion box that let me build it to cover the top of the workmate. I used pipe clamps instead of a vise (a variant of the FWW New Fangled Workbench) and was able to build a moxon style vise and a planing beam in to that.They were both built from particle board and one just wore out, the other was failed by some particularly vigorous work that should have been done in a different area of the bench.
@red58impala
@red58impala Год назад
Thanks for the information and well thought out suggestions. I appreciate you being "flexible" with the height. I remember watching a RU-vidr saying your bench needs to be 32" high so you can put all your body weight into the plane. I found suggestions to be a bit misguided. I have chronic back pain and I would never do anything if my bench was that height. At 5'11" I settled on a height of just over 38". It works for me since I don't have to stay hunched over to do most of my tasks. Planing can be a bit awkward at times, but it's very doable.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Whoever that guy was obviously doesn’t work in the real world
@wesandell
@wesandell Год назад
The reason that person (if it's who I think it is) recommended that height is that historical sources show that a lot of benches in the 18th and 19th century were around 32" high. Here's the problem, most people were shorter in the past due to malnutrition as children. Everyone talks about the "Napoleon complex" and that Napoleon wanted to conquer the world to overcome his bitterness at being short (he was 5' 5"). However, at 5' 5" he was the average height for a European man in the 1800s. So, if the average European man back then was 5' 5" and used a bench that was 32" tall and the average height today of an American is 5' 9", that would mean the correct bench height should be around 36" today (which is what Rob's bench is). History is great, but you need to consider all the facts before making conclusions.
@thomasalton2804
@thomasalton2804 Год назад
Thanks Rob. This video is probably the most informative discussion of and guide to bench height. I do have a question that I have never heard you address. Your wonderful Purple Heart Project has almost certainly had students with spinal cord injuries that abolish lower body mobility, such as no voluntary control of muscles below the rib cage. How would activities such as -landing be modified, and bench height adjusted to accommodate such situations? Thanks very much.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
The most challenging situation we are faced with vets is is a parachute accident paralyzed below L4 never as high as lower rib cage. Also have had several double leg amputee‘s above and below the knees. In those cases we built benches that we’re high enough to just fit under the bench top with the wheelchair in one double amputee he chose to hop on top of the workbench without his prosthetics and work that way
@williamniven2021
@williamniven2021 9 месяцев назад
Awesome videos, thanks for sharing your knowledge. Question on your Cosman Workbench. You mentioned in previous videos. When building the workbench legs and supports out of baltic berch ply you use a stapler. Is it a 1\4 inch narrow crown stapler?
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking 9 месяцев назад
That is what I use.
@terokarimba9573
@terokarimba9573 Год назад
interesting content can give me knowledge about workbenches and how to position woodwork..very helpful and I will try..thanks
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Glad you liked it and found it useful
@terokarimba9573
@terokarimba9573 Год назад
he is absolutely right because this content is very useful for me in my work...than you
@delgoldthorpe4005
@delgoldthorpe4005 Год назад
Hi Rob, I may have said this in a previous video, but I will reiterate it again. My grandfather was a ships carpenter, and when he was retired, almost all he did was make work benches for people .He had asn easy way to sort height out.....stand up straight with your arms down at your sides. Take a measurement halfway between the knuckle of your wrist and your elsbow....that was the bench height for the individual person...not perfect for planing, not perfect for sawing and not perfect for chiselling, but pretty close for all three operations and the height worked. Unless you have the space capacity and the money , lets face it with timber as expensive as it still is(why????), any bench anyone makes is going to be a compromise on one if not two of the affore mentioned operations. I would be very interested to know how your own bench measures up to my gandads way of measuring a bench height? Anyway, great vid as usual and always helpful,best regards to all.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Like I said in the video I made my personal bench to be perfect for sawing for me as making dovetails is my thing. That meant I had to compromise on the chiseling and planing heights which are higher than traditional. Your Dad's height determining method is pretty close to the traditional way for measuring for the height of a planing bench, which is the height up to the last knuckle of your little finger but his method will result in a higher bench...a compromise of the three operations. A perfectly good method compromise a bit on all three operationes, as compared to me I compromised a lot on two operations to have the perfects sawing height
@jewishmafia9801
@jewishmafia9801 Год назад
My bench is 35 inches tall and I'm 6'3". I find it to be a bit too low most of the time but it also doubles as an outfeed table for my table saw since I have a small shop. I cant go much higher since most surfaces in my shop (table saw included) are 36 inches tall. For hand planing it feels right at home but for general work and assembly I may consider some risers on my work bench/table saw. Thanks for all the useful info and insight!
@larryfisher7056
@larryfisher7056 Год назад
I'm 6-1 and I built my bench at 35" and found that it was too low and so raised it with some "feet" by 1 3/4 " to now just shy of 37" and it is much better for all work. I do use the moxon vise for dovetailing.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
You would benefit from risers or a moxon vise
@colinscowen9621
@colinscowen9621 Год назад
A well thought out bench bull may also be helpful. Depending on how often you would use the extra height.
@Ammed_KN6STX
@Ammed_KN6STX Год назад
My shop is slammed-packed with machinery with no room for a traditional bench. So, I rely on the Moxon vise for dovetailing and I make do with everything else.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
You need to call Luther and have him sort out your shop and teach you how to design a proper woodworking space!!!!!!
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Then invite him out to the range and show him what a marksman you are. Start with the apple on the head!
@dpmeyer4867
@dpmeyer4867 Год назад
thanks
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
you bet
@black_dragon-carpentry
@black_dragon-carpentry Год назад
The general guides I've always stuck too where. Stand with arms loose down at side. Lift hand till parallel to floor. Add 1 or two inches height to that for assembly table. ( Lower if you assemble deep boxes ) Add 3 to 4 inches for power or hand tools. Coincidentally for my height that lines up with 34 ½ and about 36. One tip for power tool benches is to aim for navel height it keeps kickback and spins slips etc from hitting you in a spot that will affect reproductive system
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Thanks for the great tips
@danthechippie4439
@danthechippie4439 Год назад
If you find you made your bench to high you could make a platform to raise you up of the floor making it more comfortable on your feet as apposed to standing on the concrete, and you can take it away to clean underneath as well as lowering your hight for chesiling or sawing in seconds
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Good suggestion
@TomBakita
@TomBakita Год назад
I agree, my bench is a little on the tall side but I’m adding a half inch floor mat for comfort that will make it about right
@twcmaker
@twcmaker Год назад
@@TomBakita That's what I do. 1/2" mats are great in front of the benches. Stops fatigue. My only issues can be that they slip around a bit on shiny concrete floor.
@marcbarash6045
@marcbarash6045 Год назад
good content
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Glad you enjoyed it Marc
@MJFacas
@MJFacas Год назад
So if sawing dovetails is my primary need I hold the saw, then take the distance from my bottom of dovetail saw teeth when elbow is at 90 degress minus 1.75" (1" clearance + 3/4" board thickness) = bench height,
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Thats is a good formula for hand sawing height
@TomBakita
@TomBakita Год назад
I am 6’ and went with 38”, a bit “tall” but so far happy with it, my kitchen counters are 38” and that seemed okay.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Everyone has to find the height they are happy with
@jimhyslop
@jimhyslop Год назад
Oh, also - James Wright (Wood By Wright) polled his viewers on their bench height, their own height, and how much they like the height. James put all the numbers in a spreadsheet, and found that most of his viewers were happy with a bench that was half their height (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VZR8q7PqLqk.html). As Rob mentioned, though, there's a lot of variation between individual preferences, so "half your height" would be a reasonable first guess if you have no other experience with bench heights.
@mohdalisyed
@mohdalisyed Год назад
Rob, how can I share my bench with my wife and my son (who are shorter than me at the moment)? Should I try placing pallets in front of the bench for them to stand on? Thanks!
@chucks4328
@chucks4328 Год назад
I wouldn't recommend a pallet. The boards are notoriously bad and one can very easily break while someone is standing on it. If you do decide to go that route screw a sheet of plywood or something over the top to spread out the weight and make a smoother surface to stand on.
@mohdalisyed
@mohdalisyed Год назад
@@chucks4328 Thanks mate! Great advice 👍
@sinsofvorador
@sinsofvorador Год назад
That or you could install flip down leg risers. Lift flip and for you lift flip back it's for them.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Both the answers others have given are good ones. Personally I would build a solid platform for them to stand on then slide it under the bench when not in use. The flip riser suggestion only works for rising the bench up. Since your bench is currently too tall for them, to make the riser work you would have to first shorten your bench, which is doable and it would be the method I would suggest if you were building the bench. Now that its already built go with the platform solution.
@johncoops6897
@johncoops6897 Год назад
Your wife can wear high heels in the workshop, and your son should build his own bench as a project.
@davidgee1585
@davidgee1585 Год назад
You could always make some wooden clogs with a platform sole just for planing!
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
That is a possibility, But not a probability
@geoweb8246
@geoweb8246 Год назад
Rob’s typical student is an adult American male. The average adult American male is 5 feet 9 inches tall (69 inches). Rob’s student benches are half that height at 34 ½ inches. So a good starting figure is half of your height. This is easy to remember.
@J.A.Smith2397
@J.A.Smith2397 Год назад
You see James wright did I large survey?
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Sorry no, what was it on?
@J.A.Smith2397
@J.A.Smith2397 Год назад
Wish mine was lower for planing
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Can you cut off the leg height a bit?
@dougkielkopf7572
@dougkielkopf7572 Год назад
Best height for someone sitting (in a wheelchair)?
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Just high enough to get your legs under the bench. We have built a couple of them
@dougkielkopf7572
@dougkielkopf7572 Год назад
Thanks
@sinsofvorador
@sinsofvorador Год назад
I guess a 38 or 39 bench would be best for me. I'm 6'4"
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
Mike that's really hard to say. You saw my measurement and my bench height. Luther is 6' and he prefers 34" bench, we make our teaching benches 34-1/2 with a 6 foot average student. The best advice is you can always make it a bit high and later trim it lower once you figure out what your perfect height really is.
@Crashawsome
@Crashawsome 3 месяца назад
So, as long as your desk is a reaonsable height, there's always multiple ways to raise or lower depending on the job you're doing. I appreciate the knowledge, but a lot of commenters go way overboard with their hero worship.
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking 3 месяца назад
I’m not sure what you mean by lower the bench. Once I have established the height, it’s not very easy to remove some of it to work lower.
@davewill5226
@davewill5226 Год назад
Accidentally touched dislike sorry I've always liked the way you work .
@RobCosmanWoodworking
@RobCosmanWoodworking Год назад
No worries. Thanks for trying
Далее
I Don't Get Why People Still Use These Joints
17:26
I Don't Get Why People Still Use These Joints
Просмотров 617 тыс.
Diy Workbench Ideas - Wrap your Bench Edge
26:57
Diy Workbench Ideas - Wrap your Bench Edge
Просмотров 77 тыс.
ТОКСИКИ #4 | Илья Соболев, Сергей Орлов, Павел Деревянко
1:11:09
ТОКСИКИ #4 | Илья Соболев, Сергей Орлов, Павел Деревянко
Просмотров 311 тыс.
😭ХУДШАЯ КОНЦОВКА В SCHOOLBOY RUNAWAY ! #roblox #shorts #zengi #projectfight
00:35
😭ХУДШАЯ КОНЦОВКА В SCHOOLBOY RUNAWAY ! #roblox #shorts #zengi #projectfight
Просмотров 1,5 млн
☝️ Хороший детектив с Еленой Прокловой на канале // Призраки Замоскворечья
00:53
☝️ Хороший детектив с Еленой Прокловой на канале // Призраки Замоскворечья
Просмотров 681 тыс.
Jelly Hack Pack 😈 Who Knew Denial Could Taste So Sweet? #comedy
00:16
Jelly Hack Pack 😈 Who Knew Denial Could Taste So Sweet? #comedy
Просмотров 2,5 млн
Hand Plane Review | Lie Nielsen 5-1/2
32:04
Hand Plane Review | Lie Nielsen 5-1/2
Просмотров 26 тыс.
The Best Bench Height By The Data
8:35
The Best Bench Height By The Data
Просмотров 8 тыс.
Quick and Easy DIY Wooden Mallet
16:06
Quick and Easy DIY Wooden Mallet
Просмотров 2,3 тыс.
Workbench Tool Tray - Simple Add-on
36:56
Workbench Tool Tray - Simple Add-on
Просмотров 76 тыс.
Workbench Made With Hand Tools Only - HOW TO
12:16
Workbench Made With Hand Tools Only - HOW TO
Просмотров 86 тыс.
Bench Height Explained | Paul Sellers
4:23
Bench Height Explained | Paul Sellers
Просмотров 78 тыс.
The Cosman Workbench - Cheap, Easy, and BEST WORKBENCH EVER
13:33
The Cosman Workbench - Cheap, Easy, and BEST WORKBENCH EVER
Просмотров 359 тыс.
Tool Well Add-on | Paul Sellers
27:43
Tool Well Add-on | Paul Sellers
Просмотров 139 тыс.
NO BS- What every woodworker needs to know about workbenches
13:49
NO BS- What every woodworker needs to know about workbenches
Просмотров 1 млн
5 Tips For A BETTER Workbench
10:55
5 Tips For A BETTER Workbench
Просмотров 48 тыс.
Лёля Такси: как меня пытался купить пассажир
0:45
Лёля Такси: как меня пытался купить пассажир
Просмотров 3,3 млн
РЕМОНТ ЗА 1🍋 в сталинке!| #винтаж #секондхенд #обзор #ремонт #дизайн #шортс #дом
1:00
РЕМОНТ ЗА 1🍋 в сталинке!| #винтаж #секондхенд #обзор #ремонт #дизайн #шортс #дом
Просмотров 6 млн
ДВС БЕЗ ПОРШНЕЙ ДЛЯ MAZDA И ЖИГУЛИ! #rotor #РПД #mazda #mazdarx7 #тюнинг #двигатель #wankel
0:55
ДВС БЕЗ ПОРШНЕЙ ДЛЯ MAZDA И ЖИГУЛИ! #rotor #РПД #mazda #mazdarx7 #тюнинг #двигатель #wankel
Просмотров 7 млн
Давидыч - Мой Роллс Ройс Ограбили😳 #shorts
0:19
Давидыч - Мой Роллс Ройс Ограбили😳 #shorts
Просмотров 994 тыс.
Что делать если забыл ОЧКИ??? #моястихия #swimming #юмор #fun
0:23
Что делать если забыл ОЧКИ??? #моястихия #swimming #юмор #fun
Просмотров 1,9 млн
Необычное растение! 😱🌿
0:27
Необычное растение! 😱🌿
Просмотров 3,8 млн
Выполнил трюк, который не получился у Коби🤯
0:37
Выполнил трюк, который не получился у Коби🤯
Просмотров 6 млн