Oblivion's NPCs were revolutionary for the time but they were also kind of wonky. Today we look at what made Oblivion's NPCs so weird and how they could have been improved. TWITTER: / thecantinach
Maybe, but I personally think it's funnier if it's just a deadpan reaction to an utterly stupid situation, akin to some moron going up to a nun to ask her if she ever heard of Jesus Christ. "Nope. Never have I ever."
Lmfaaoooo can you imagine walking into a store to buy armor and you’re like “wtf, where’s your stock at.” And the dude tells you to turn around and you see some random ass NPC in the corner with 38 pairs of daedric armor on like “I am infinite. I am eternal.”
@@thejessicabimbo It's a legendary game too. The AI in it was surprisingly heavily updated past GTA 3 and Vice City. Basically, added factions, node spawning, model refresh rates (vice city had this too), etc. It's biggest improvement was perhaps it's XY Axis improvements. This is most noticeable in how you can now both fly, swim and dive, the mountains, etc. It's why the previous games were far more urban, and didn't have too many hills. Only major limitations was the backdrops that needed loading in, like the trees when flying or kightpoles when driving fast; but that was a limitation of the PS2, than the game. In the rereleased coming out it'll likely be fixed.
@@thejessicabimbo Past GTA game only walks and do some reaction on shit that you do like when you pointed a gun to them,driving a car onto them. They're not complex at all,and the only that make them special is they're very chaotic.Without those chaotic vibe, they're very basic
So, you're saying that Bethesda had to tone down the npcs because they be prone to illegal actions? It sounds like Bethesda created true AI and became scared of it
That's why they included the institute in Fallout 4. They had been through it before. Honestly would have preferred the other AI, as it would make each playthrough unique, but would cause a loss content for that playthrough. Life doesn't always allow every possibility to be available to you due to external factors.
PlasmaBanana yeah I wish I played oblivion before they changed the npc I feel like I would crack up. I only ever hear the conversation about mud crabs now lol
Am I the only one who feels these games might be better this way? Like, you dont control your quests irl. Why would someone you know not die or be sent to jail st some point just cause they're a main character? Still show where they are on the compass and map obviously but I mean I think itd be far more immersive this way. Would be a son of a bitch to write out all the story options and code them all but it might be worth it
“My wife sadly passed yesterday” “You empty headed fool” “Yes” “No doubt” “Have you ever been to the red lantern district” *”NEVER SHOULD HAVE COME HERE”*
I always like the random "Countess Alessia Caro is unconscious"-messages. Made my game feel vibrant knowing that somewhere out there, she's getting mauled by bears and bandits in the wild.
Yeah, during the Sanguine quest I waited in her dining room for a full week before I had enough and left. When I exited Leyawiin, lo and behold the Countess is fighting off Daedra and dying and respawning many times before I clear out the Oblivion gate
There's just NO game quite like Oblivion! It was the only time in my life that I felt "this is the best game I've ever played!" Skyrim did this for me too but Oblivion was my 1st
I love Oblivion's dynamic AI so much. When I first started playing I was absolutely blown away by how every NPC has their own daily schedule. It made me feel so much more immersed in the game than any other RPG
@@celestialmonkey while Gothic is good and also has npc schedules, it's on a much smaller scale, and the npcs doesn't have as much personality as the ones in Oblivion. What i mean is that you get alot of "generic" unnamed npcs. Oh, and the world isn't as lore rich as the one in TES. But the game has it's own charm, definitely.
It's hilarious because when I saw the missing armor or other items it really confused me. Somehow it never occurred to me that it was an NPC hoarding it to himself lol
@@worsethanjoerogan8061 sadly for me I can't even remember this guy in the game. But I do remember sneaking in the shops late at night and stealing items on display. I always thought the empty counters were always so. Now I know, 12 years later, that that troll NPC was going around doing this shit.
2:21 THAT FINALLY MAKES SENSE... I remember playing Oblivion years ago. As I played, the armor shops would become more and more empty. I wasn't stealing anything from them so I know it wasn't me. Now it makes sense. IT WAS THAT NPC ALL ALONG!
@@vinny9256 i remember selling a necromancer robe to a market npc, only to come back to sell more stuff some time later and find him dressed as a necromancer. That blew my mind that he decided, by himself, to change to the clothes that i sold him.
I once had some mythic dawn guy "attack" me (he only revealed himself as an agent and started shouting shit like "For Lord Dagon!, but he could not find me because i was running with 100 chameleon) and one of the guards killed him, then as the guard started to loot its corpse another guard started firing arrows at him. Then a bow duel ensued for a good 3 minutes with both guards randomly ragdolling from arrows (which was funny af), then suddenly a dunmer guy walked towards me from an inn, tanked an arrow and gave me a quest.... eventually one of the guards died and everything went back to normal.
"What's wrong with Oblivion's NPC"? Even after 13 years, they're still funny as hell. And people still talk about them. So, the asnwer to the question is NOTHING.
I played this when it first came out after Morrowind. At the time I thought they were great. It was groundbreaking stuff. I guess if you are playing now you would think they were funny. I can imagine in a decade and a half people will be laughing at the games that are releasing now.
honestly, i'd kill for a version of oblivion where the NPC's had their original amount of freedom. Not as a replacement for the oblivion we got, mind you, but it'd be fun to see that full chaos for ourselves.
@@TheCantinaChannel I think it would be alot cooler if NPCs would consider doing crimes if they were aligned to do so. For example it would be a no brainer for a begger to pickpocket. But never for a noblemen. and the guards would throw them in prison if they were caught, and if an NPC sent you on a quest, only for them to get in a drunk bar fight and arrested. Then you could try and break them out for your reward. Imagine trying to judge whether or not you want to break someone out of prison, or doing so would cost more then the quest reward. The NPCs would then have pre-recorded Dialoge thanking you for saving them.
Exactly. In Morrowind, Bethesda got away with making everyone killable because the NPCs almost never did anything that could get themselves killed on their own. They usually just stood still or wandered aimlessly, away from anyone or anything that may consider attacking them. So if they died, it was pretty much your fault, because you put them in that situation.
It seems like there's an easy fix in the form of giving only the players a special interaction option when they knock out an essential npc, and having a little text window come up saying: "You sense that the one before you may still be of use. What do you do?" "Steal From Them"
*so good it's bad I love the ambition behind the npc system, and some aspects work perfectly. For example, if you constantly would drop food around city-swimmer, shed never be killed bc she takes that food instead. Throw in the poisoned apples to this "npc-wants-food" system and you have such a great result, esp for assassins in this case.
The NPC system was extremely ambitious, and actually very impressive for its time. It was the first game I ever played in which it actually felt like the NPCs had actually routines and goals beyond just standing there like a signpost waiting for me to speak to them. Oblivion was a groundbreaking game from many reasons. But yeah, it led to some hilarious and awkward shit. Which I also love
I've never played Oblivion but I've seen hundreds of memes around its NPC's conversations and now it all makes sense. Thanks for the video it was much more educational than I thought
I'll never forget walking into the imperial city and finding the mages and guards in the midst of the civil war. Magic, arrows, shield bashes, I had to pick a side and quick. I ended up saving that load so I could play through that battle again and again. As a note I left the area, fast traveled, came back and it fixed it.
I've never felt that anything is wrong with them, because i never expected npcs from a 2006 game to act like real people. They were always quite impressive to me.
@@Smoov7 No worries. It's just funny that you got a message like that so early in the game and when you couldn't have been near that NPC. Oblivion is a wonderful, buggy game.
I remember in the dark brotherhood questline when you're locked in the house with other guests. Everyone was sitting at the table. No had had died yet, and the Dark Elf woman gets up. Murders two of them, and sits the fuck back down .
Hands down one of the most enjoyable parts of oblivion were the NPCs conversations. ‘Have you heard of the high elves?’ .. ‘I don’t want to talk about it’ .. ‘bye’. Truly masterful.
NPC1: "My children have gone off into the woods to fight monsters I'm so worried." NPC2: "That's real sad." NPC1: "No doubt." Me: "That's right... sucks to be them."
"Giving them to much freedom results in tons of crimes" "they dont know what to do with their freedom " "They have stupid empty conversations" To me that sounds like a perfect simulation of humanity, its amazing what technology can do!
Um excuse me, the radiant dialogue is brilliant. You thought Walter White's "I am the one who knocks" bit was good? Ain't got nothing on Oblivion's radiant dialogue. Just look at this "Oh it's you. Hi." "Heard any news from the other provinces?" "Get lost." "'Bye"
One of the BEST NPC conversations I saw, but first a little context for people who may not know/may not remember the Arcane University: Basically it's just a magical school, you go there toward the end of the Mage's Guild quest line, and there's teachers and students. Obviously there's the random Radiant dialogue for them too. Just putting this in to remind people if they haven't played in a while. So what happened was I was afk in the Arcane University, texting or something, but in front of the game. I was letting the game play, when two mages, a master and a student start a conversation. Obviously this is paraphrased, so not EXACT things they say. Also these two NPCs if I recall, at least one was voiced by Hieronymous Lex's actor(as many are in Oblivion) and tbh, maybe BOTH were, which makes this whole thing even funnier. Student: Master! I have some good news! I think I've made some advancements in the field of Restoration! Master: Oh really, but have you thought of its implications in the field of Illusion? Student: Yes! And it can even help Destruction as well! Master: I see. Student: Good day. *PAUSE BUT THE NPCS DO NOT WALK AWAY FROM EACH OTHER* The two EXACT NPCs now start a new conversation, think of them now with the roles reversed: Student(was the master a second ago): Master I have good news! I have made advancements in the field of Mysticism! Master(was the student): Oh really! Think of the possibilities and how it can help Alchemy! Student: I see Master: Good day. There may have been more to the conversations, but the point was how they were the two EXACT same NPCs that had two back to back conversations. There was obviously a "Master! I have made advancements in X!" and then the master responds with, "Really, but have you thought how it can affect Y and Z?" even if the schools didn't relate AT ALL to each other lmao. My best NPC dialogue experience hands down.
If the conversations weren’t so bad, I think this would be a really cool and dynamic feature in a game. Having NPC’s live out there lives without their actions being predictable and having it all be done even when the player is gone is very interesting.
this video was really interesting and i like your solution to some of the problems they maybe "simple" solution but sometimes simple is best, either good video nonetheless
Unfortunately that's actually only half true. Their money will be removed from their inventory when activated...but their bounty stays. This results in the guard "reactivating the NPC" until they run out of gold and the inevitable happens. The only way for them to live is if they stole 1 gold worth, which gives them a 0.5 bounty, which rounds up to 1 when paying, but down to 0 when checking if the NPC should be "arrested". If they steal another gold, their bounty will go up to 1 and be killed.
@@dmas7749 That did not happen when I tested it. I made it so all Food items cost a million septims, which forced NPC's to steal to get their Food. They would often have the gold needed to pay their bounty initially, but would eventually get killed when they ran out of gold to pay their bounties.
@11I00OO1I0O1Il Any idea what old Gromm will do now that Baelin is dead? Yeeeeeeeeeess. Take care. You t- You do NOT belong in- Hello. Is it true what they're saying? Is Baelin really dead? Yeeeeeeeeeess. Farewell. Be seeing you. Hi there! (continues)
So much of this made me laugh out loud. The best one is where the orc starts a topic, the other lad agrees and the orc just ends it saying "Go away, fool." LOVED IT
What I find funny in Skyrim is that they scripted so many specific lines that you can't peacefully walk around a town without being spammed with random lore of the characters lives.
@@AleronWolf spotted you again you sick degenerate like I said before you will suffer when you are refused entry into the golden gate unless you change your ways while you still can
That Todd Howard quote is a lie because Starfield NPCs are a complete regression, the NPCs are set dressing that despawn and the named ones have no schedules. What a disaster
So Skyblivion should be something like: "Never should have come here!" "No doubt." "You'll be so much easier to rob when you're dead!" "That's so sad." Meanwhile an Imperial Guard comes and kill all bandits :)
Bethesda: We've created radiant AI, so the player doesn't have to interact with them in order to get plot and story! Also Bethesda: At least six NPCs need to stand around in Whiterun until the Dragonborn walks by them.
My console save of Skyrim ended with everyone in whiterun being eaten by vampires because for some reason everyone in town spawned near the front gates when I fast-travel in regardless of time of day or night.
Watching this after playing Starfield is such a big oof. Radiant AI is dead, and NPCs are somewhere between Morrowind and Oblivion in terms of complexity....17 years later...
I have an idea If the speech that the npc says it positive, the following npc will almost always respond with some positive dialogue. If it’s negative or an insult, the other npc will respond the same way. If it’s a greeting, the other npc will respond with a greeting, and or a question or a compliment. But to keep things weird and natural, there still is a chance that an out of the blue dialogue may come. So there is a possibility that a npc will insult the npc after the other npc says a compliment. There could also be a drunk level, if an npc gets drunk or is kind of crazy, it will have a higher chance of saying something random or out of the blue.
I read the title and instantly thought: nothing, absolutely NOTHING is wrong with oblivions ai. Its perfect and I love it so much. More games should have oblivion ai
Gothic 1 actually had a pretty good NPC System back in 2001. Essentially all non-essential NPC's have a daily life they live. They were essentially scripted to chat with eachother, smoke weed, drink, eat, play instruments and otherwise interact with what was related to them, like Smiths working forges, or someone hammering nails into their house. The Quest Givers always stayed in their relative area but might move here or there. Like Diego who's important to the world will either relax by his house, keeping an open ear of your progress, or sit at the campfire with others. At night people will go home or act in a much more relaxed manner compared to their daytime activities. The conversations were scripted just like in Skyrim but are usually much more quiet, almost hard to hear unless you go out of your way to eavesdrop, instead the quiet voices just added to the ambient music they were pretty good with. Back then it was very lifelike and amazing, especially when the fan community in Germany (the game is German in origin) helped restore lost content, fixed it, and added their own in mods. Originally they were going to be more active, able to go on patrols, watch fights in the arena, and actually arrange arena battles.
When one looks at an old game like Gothic and what it achieved with limited technology and a meager budget... and then compares it to many modern AAA-titles one has to wonder: what went wrong?
I agree about Gothic 1 AI, their choices were not as dynamic, but they had a full day schedule that was believable and fitted their occupation and social status in the world, and also they could engage in conversations, which weren't dynamic, but instead a couple of fixed lines, yes they were very simple background chitchat but at least they seemed natural. Oblivion NPC behaviour makes you feel that game was made by Monty Python.
The problems regarding NPCs deaths are i. the psychic guards ii. all crimes is punishable by death on the spot iii. they will fight to the death iv. they will walk into death traps v. they will stand between you and the enemy
In skyrim there is a low percent health mode where they grovel on the ground essentially, you could pretty much have them yield and be taken to prison at that point, of which nobody would see and a bunch of npc's would disappear all over the place. Solutions breed more complicated problems :)
This is the crux of the problem with Bethesda's "system" implementation. *Why is literally EVERYTHING punishable by death when it comes to NPCs committing even seemingly minor offenses, yet the PCs are some how exempt from this or can even get off Scot free?! (most of the time)* Why the developers choose such a bizarre double standard of player agency and NPC'S sever lack of non-lethal options will always be a mystery to me. I might not know much about coding but it seems like it would've made more sense to actually give NPCs that are sopposed to act like real living people a number of options on how to approach any given situation that doesn't devolve into *murder everything that so much as lightly taps a utensil or moves a book slightly out of place.* I wouldn't mind if say instead of getting myself killed for stealing a few lousy apples every single time that *maybe BOTH I and the NPCs have options to maybe work off depts to the apple merchants or getting thrown out of the market place for a while by some guards and given a warning. Heck they could even have some less upstanding guards rough you up a bit (or even severely beat you to a near bloody mess) ever time they catch you in the act of committing a crime and even confiscate some of your legal possessions (as in stuff you bought legally but can't prove) including some of your stolen goods, claiming to your victims these goods "lost" as they pocket the stuff for their own personal benefit! (who doesn't love a bit of law enforcement corruption!) But I don't know, maybe nothing could be done, maybe adding in some of these non-lethal but still punishing possibilities was deemed not worth the effort, who knows.
It's not AI, the largest tech corporations in the world are still attempting to develop AI, sorry but this pathetic crap in old Oblivion does not warrant being called AI, so the guy who made this video is falsely using that word. All Oblivion has, is pre-programmed behaviours, that are chosen at random by a piece of code, that doesn't constitute AI I am afraid.
@@ziongite You are thinking of the meaning too much. What they have in oblivion is artificial intelligence as well. It is commonly used term in games in general. Does that mean I think it is on par with the A.I we want to develop: no
@@ziongite I think you might have a weird understanding of what an AI is. An AI is basically not much more than a system that makes decisions in a in some way _intelligent_ manner. And Oblivions AI does somewhat satisfy this. Now, what Bethesda wanted to do was a needs based system, where the goal of an NPC would be taking care of his needs. It then got replaced by a more stable system where each NPC has set goals and the AI only tries to achieve these goals. And yes, methods for capable AIs are under heavy research. But that argument is as weird as saying ”some specific car model is not a car, because the car industry still researches better cars”.
I use to love walking through town and finding a dead body. Because then I can play detective in my own mind and try to figure it out. Haha it also makes the world feel lived in. Like time moves even when the player isn't around.
Man when I play Skyrim I was disappointed with their NPC. Oblivion NPC was so beautiful. They had conversations that were just incredible. I loved just sitting in a tavern and enjoy their conversations
I’ve always wanted them to just keep working at radiant AI. It’s a very fun idea and it really seems like a few contingencies would allow for it to work without breaking the game.
