When I first got into jiu jitsu it was for self defense. Later, bjj seemed like playing chess as there is always a counter move to escape. After getting back into it again 18 years later my motive was to remove excess weight and I knew high intensity training would help. The sport aspect I think would also help in school yard fight but as an adult descalation is the best tactic in a confrontation .
Having attended a sport Jiu-Jitsu school before leaving it to attend a self defense based school I can tell you first hand it is different. The mindset is different and even some of the position you'd learn in a sport school will get you punched in the face in real street fight. Anybody telling you it doesn't matter is lying. How you train is how you react and training for sport is different than training for self defense.
@@k0d0kanI live in a big city L.A. and deal with homeless drug addicts who are prone to violent outbursts. Sportive based jiu jitsu does nothing for dangerous situations.
I am happy to report that there is a Eduardo Rocha JJ school in Oakland, one that definitely has a combatives and fundamentals curriculum. I will check it out (besides the Ralph Gracie School) come Fall.
As a karate black belt from the old days (sometimes called the blood and guts era), I totally agree with what you are saying. We fought with no protective equipment except a cup (and groin was a legal target) and went hard. Yes, we were "supposed to pull our punches to the face" but in the fray, that didn't always happen. Our techniques caused plenty of damage. During those times that I needed to use it for self-defense, it always worked.
This is what I like about my school. We go over self defense in our fundamentals and then have a separate class for competition style techniques. Our advance class is about 50/50 self defense and comp depending on who is teaching or if a tournament is coming up soon.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu no the school I was going to is not like that. The only other school with a schedule that I like is 2 and a half almost 3 hours away from me
1:40 OF COURSE this is true! It's not rocket science or even debatable! People really call you arrogant for that?? Maybe I misunderstand... I don't see how anyone could claim that when you are limited/restricted in what you can DO (in a fight or self defense situation), that it wouldn't make you _less effective!_
I started jiujitsu in 1999 at a Royce affiliate school and my instructor focused a lot on self defense. I train 10th planet now. I competed several times, but mostly in submission only.. never liked competing for points and the fact that you can lose to somebody who might not be better than you technique wise, but just knows how to strategically stall for most of the match after scoring a point.
Thanks! I needed to hear this right now. I trained for 18 years in a Japanese karate-jujitsu system. We did some grappling but the system I learned is totally different. I have been training now for 1 month with 10th Planet. I took off my black belt, accepted that I am starting at white belt or no belt at all, and I am grateful to have that new feeling again. 10P is a totally different art than Wado-Ryu, aiki-arts, etc. From time to time I fight back that feeling of frustration and I remember to be grateful. I am in my 40s still learning and training. All shapes, ages, and sizes are my training partners and they are so willing to teach me something new. What a blessing!
good for you! remember, no one can/will take your current black belts away from you. there is no shame in wearing a white belt while continuing to be expanding your horizons. if it were all the same, there'd be no use in even bothering to learn. just keep training and earn another black belt in 10th planet!
In all fairness Japanese jujitsu is totally different to bjj so you should wear a white belt.however,if you're a black belt in bjj you're a black belt in every bjj school regardless of philosophy.
Ryan, Your advice and incites are excellent. Im an older guy that just started in another part of the country. You've helped me have the right mindset. I also really enjoy your history videos.
So with the people who came from competition heavy schools to your school who said “im so close to my goal of a black belt ill stick with where i am” did any of then return to you after completing their goal of the black belt to learn the jiujitsu that you teach?
this is so true. I stopped training BJJ and switched to MMA (MMA style grappling) and this is the main reason. No BJJ schools in my area train self defense. all are sport schools.
Hapki-Concepts / Self Defense / Control Tactics So i tried no gi bjj with a mma guy. He rolled differently than the pure sport bjj guys i roll with. As someone who wrestled I really liked the no gi and his style was cool. So should I try mma style bjj? If so I have some concerns you know? Meat head idiots who intentionally hurt you to look bad. Quality of teaching.
I agree with you 100%. To be MMA style BJJ (“jiz with hits”) is just old school Gracie Jiu Jitsu. The issue is finding a MMA school with mellow practitioners that are not attempting to kill you during every roll. I wish I could find a good “old school” Gracie gym. Nothing but sport schools in my town. At 47 with lots of old injuries, I’m just looking for a fun place to train.
I don't think MMA and self defense are synonymous. MMA is still a spot. The BJJ MMA fighters learned is generally not the greatest (note all the bad BJJ fundamentals from MMA fighters). MMA will prepare you better for a fight than sport BJJ, yes. But MMA grappling and self defense grappling aren't the same thing automatically.
MMA doesnt claim anything that is not. Like you can fight multiple opponents like many of the so called self defence martial arts claim that are capable. of course is not proof of such claims...or you can disarm people or defend agaisnt knife attacks or guns...which please
My argument is a BJJ black belt that attends a "sport" school and competes is just as capable as defending his/herself in a street fight as someone in a "traditional" school. The typical argument is that sport jiu-jitsu eschews fundamental moves in favor of competition oriented techniques. This is untrue, as competitors must learn how to shrimp, sweep, escape and pass guard. I'm sure the Miyao Brothers can defend themselves in a fight and aren't going to immediately go for a berimbolo. I've visited a sport school and the level of intensity coupled with the students' technique only solidified BJJ as an efficient martial art.
The amount of people that can get hurt in competitions because they forget the basics of self defence, tells me that may not be true. Having to deal with someone who isn't simply grappling for points is a very different thing than competing under the rules of the time. Older rules were probably better then what i have seen in modern ones for practical purposes. I think people have gotten too far away from the roots of BJJ under the Gracies idea's. Most can't do much on the take downs unless they have taken up MMA or wrestling too. You wont get beaten on with competition rules the same way you do in street or self defence situations.
People get hurt in competitions because they are fighting 100%. No one is injury proof in the martial arts regardless of how sharp your technique is. Besides, competitors are defending themselves in a tournament because the goal is to not be submitted or placed in a bad position. When you watch high profile black belts compete most win on points and advantages because they are that good. I agree that there should be greater emphasis on take downs and throws. However it's disingenuous to claim sport schools don't prepare people for self defense. Students from sport schools roll hard every week in class.
I don't think Prof. Ryan is trying to say that competition is all bad. Competing can be a useful learning tool as long as one recognizes its purpose, rather that it being the end-all. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the point here is to keep focus on the main reason for training. Complete absence of strikes, always starting on the knees, resorting to positions that can get you hit, and playing for points rather than a submission, can make some schools less effective at self defense. If you want to train to defend yourself, then the training should look more realistic and less like a tournament.
Oh for sure. I'm believe BJJ school should emphasize the fundamentals and submissions. I just think people make the conclusion that sport centered schools don't prepare folks for the streets. A school that pushes for wins at Worlds and Pan-Ams doesn't necessarily forego teaching the basics. The school I attend teaches the sport guards, but the teachers hammer the basics more than anything else. A hip bump sweep and an arm bar are effective. Hence why these are among the first moves we learn...and use.
So your saying that Rafa and Gui Mendes would do terribly at your school? Or that Marcelo Garcia lacks fundamentals because he didn't study under your affiliation? Post some pics of top (known) guys from other schools rolling against top guys from your school
My instructors are gene Dunn and professor glick, trained under renzo is my bbj lineage legit? Kama do your best i know you have connections you can make a quick phone call Oss
Kind of like kickboxing I guess? Some of us come from a pure boxing foundation. You can see it in the movements. Some are karate, Korean karate or MT based. Then you got the kung fu or Sanda guys.
I train in Shotokan karate and my Sensei has always taught traditional self defense karate, and in our travels going to training camps and seminars we noticed alot if not most other schools were more based around competition even tho it was still "shotokan" they were training to score points. very big difference. also there were many cases where brown and black belts visited from other schools that were not necessarily up to the same standard as ours, or when we would visit other schools their black belts would have trouble with our brown belts. so there can be a gap based on instructors and their requirements
Professor, I don't recall if you've done a video on the future of jiu jitsu but that would be an interesting subject to cover. I'm left wondering what the future will look like since it seems so many schools, affiliates and instructors seem to be diluting the traditional self-defense principles so much that it has become such a vastly different art in competition schools. Will there be a renaissance thanks to GM Rickson's JJGF or will the IBJJF and competition schools permanently turn it into a spectator sport where the goal is points and holding a position for 3 seconds to "stabeeelize." I hope it's the former but I'm concerned about the amount of focus and attention that's been given to the latter and the dilution it has caused.
@Kama Jiu-Jitsu I'm a blue belt at UFC gym. If I came to your gym would you test my self defense & bjj skills first? or would you just say go to white belt?
@@KamaJiuJitsu ok I like it my main coach is an Atos guy really ibjjf and competition oriented . I like my Atos coach a lot but now realize the difference in styles. do you know any gyms in san Diego that teach your style.
Your video reminds me of what I see in no-gi. People are awesome in gi but the moment you put them in no-gi situation they are no where near the same. I am talking about high belts e.g. even brown belts. I feel sorry for them because I feel like this is not supposed to be happening and they should be controlling and dominating me. Its the same as you describe above i.e. you might be a black belt but in some moves you are just a white belt similarly you may be a black belt in gi but when it comes to no-gi you are probably a purple belt. I dont see the point of gi in the context of practicality and self defence.
As someone who trains at a mainly-sport academy (very occasional self-defence techniques), how difficult is it to supplement my existing knowledge with self-defence? Can I course-correct as a late 30s blue belt?
I train and Gracie Barra and want to learn more of the traditional way competition seem really fun I just want to learn to defend against punches and all that stuff right way I started almost a month ago
At first I was interested in these videos, but the more I watch the more it sounds like propaganda... sad I think because the original point (basing bjj on self defence) is very valid.
Ryan, 1. Given your emphasis on self defense, what are your thoughts on leg locks? 2. As stated above, since your focus is on self defense, from a purely technical view what are your thoughts on rubber guard? Thank you for your time
Have absolutely nothing against them. We begin leg Locks in earnest beginning with purple belt, typically, but they’ve been exposed to some concepts well before then.
In Ricksons system of jiu-jitsu, what kind of guards would you use or what would be applicable? I feel there would be no spyder, de la Riva, inversions, lasso guard etc....just because your open to kicks and punches.
His use of guard is both more simple (in fewer different troupes of guards) and more complicated (MUCH higher development of the guard positions he does play) at the same time. The perspectives he comprehends in his interpretation are truly not of this world.
Trying to figure it out.Theres a Bjj school convenient to home and I know they do no gi two days a week and gi three days I know they do compete and have tournaments not sure if that will translate to selfdefense.Any feed back would be appreciated.
Spot on... I have dan ranks in one Ryu of Karate, but I am training in a new style of Karate. Am I a BB? Yes, but not in this new karate. Yes there is a lot in common with basic techniques, but there is a radical difference in curriculum, both in quantity and quality. But all of what I knew prior, only helped me double promote out of white belt. Which means very little. Been training hard for two years and I am only 5 of 10 belts to getting shodan here. There are three traditional karate origins in Okinawa. Each are quite different in methods and emphasis. Nahate, Shruite, and Tomarite. This was even before it went two hundred miles away into the Japanese mainland. And it mutated or evolved even further, some became self defense oriented, others became point sparring, others became full contact. The misunderstanding is that it is all called "karate" doesn't realize that all karate isn't the same. You could say Karate is a species of martial disciplines, and different of karate versions are breeds or subspecies. GJJ or BJJ or GBJJ is the same. At least in this figurative example. The question is the style/interpretation/school this or that? "same but different" vs "same same". Popularity is a large part of why some subspecies thrive and others die off. The short answer is, I believe, that many people still lack humility, and attach personal identity to rank. They view the BB as the destination. It's not about the destination, its about the journey itself.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu Brother... I wish I had a RU-vid blog. I spend way too much time overthinking things. But at least I remember to train. Wish I still lived in Garland... I would be a Kama Jiu-jitsu student.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu And you still got the point across pretty clearly. So dont worry. You are one of the best bjj guys, I follow because you put it simple, and understandable. I dig Chewjitsu on RU-vid as well.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu Actually born and raised in/out of the barrios of San Antonio. But the last time I lived in Texas, I lived in Garfield, with two ExCon roommates. Hey the rent was cheap. And in Garland... usually if you dont carry yourself like prey or like a billybaddass people tend to leave you alone. The hardest part of MA to teach is learning how to see a fight brewing, and making yourself not be there to begin with. That said... when your built 6'4" and hover between 228 to 245... most usually dont want to come for trouble. Which makes it even easier to avoid it. It's about projecting respect, and calming expecting it. Which is rooted in the balance of confidence, and humility. And always carrying a mouthguard.
I am very new to bjj, but is there a vid opinion on 10th planet? seems like theirs is self defense (mma w strikes, at any rate, not sure if same) but still "newer" or at least attempting to add things
@@KamaJiuJitsu Thanks, I like the idea of simple/old school and "basics" being all that are needed, and was curious if Eddie B was indeed able to add anything critical, since you talked about other things such as spider guard being rather unnecessary
I like how you focus on SD. I know you don't value competition too much, but surely you sparr/roll a little to pressure test your technique and to try to find your timing. I think it would be interesting if your school competed with a 10th Planet school because they have a similar philosophy and they do not value points when they roll.
Hey Ryan,Enjoy your channel and figure you would be a good person to ask So would you say Pedro Sauer's style of BJJ be concidered self defense Bjj by your definition.I'm only asking because I'm obviously not familiar is why im asking
Master Pedro himself IS all about self-defense. Like anywhere though, I’ve seen Pedro affiliates that do a ton of self defense, and I saw one that (seemingly) did none at all.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu Im new to Dallas and would like your thoughts on RCJ Machado jiu-jitsu. I know the instructor is a cousin of of the Gracie’s and was wondering is his style self defense? He’s the closest school to me but I’m only interested in gjj
Pedro is an old school Rickson BB. Did a seminar with him around 10-11 years ago and was blown away. Wonderful guy and great representative of Jiu Jitsu.
MMA is a blend of BJJ, Muay Thai/Kickboxing, Boxing, Wrestling, typically. The goal is to be proficient in all of the above, resulting in a complete skill set. Participants may or may not have a base/specialty art. Traditional GJJ is a complete art in itself that approaches things differently than MMA, but strives to have the same result; a win. GJJ has as its NHB art what is referred to as “vale tudo.”
Kama Jiu-Jitsu today mma is just the evolve of vale tudo a guy how trsin mma has a way than someone who train gjj , probably has better wrestling skills also in all mma scholls there are dparring do you can see your abilities.
@@KamaJiuJitsu well, if your goal is to help people and expose them to real juijitsu for self defense, don't you think you should actually show them what to do if someone stands up in your triangle choke, or how to block punches to the face in the guard, instead of telling them they should learn self defense? I started training bjj for self defense but I can only learn what my instructor teaches me; it's pointless to talk about self defense vs sport, if you aren't gonna teach any self defense in my opinion.
Perhaps you could ask your instructor to teach you the self defense concepts and techniques. After all, if he’s wearing a black belt, I would assume it means he is a black belt, who should know it. If he WON’T teach it to you, then I guess you have some thinking to do. OTOH, you can learn them from Dave Kama on his Patreon Channel here www.patreon.com/kamajiujitsu Or you can subscribe to Rickson’s SDU. Or you can subscribe to Gracie University. Or you can probably find it from others here on YT? We’re not the only self defense proponents on YT.
Any thoughts about submission-only (OSO) competitions? Are they better or worse compared to points competition and can they prepare you for Vale Tudo or street fights?
Could OSO help preserve the importance of dominant positions? I've heard that people do give up dominant positions in OSO because of the fact that OSO only counts submission; whereas in points competition, you're rewarded for dominant positions. I think getting down the basics on positions is important in self-defense.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Even if it's a match where opponents start sitting on a ground because there's no points deduction or penalty from doing it other than it's a bad idea for MMA or street fighting?
My instructor is #1 on the dirty dozen list. I've seen him dismantle guys with ease. Was different training back then. Definitely self defense based, but absolutely effective today.
Craig and Kenny Gabrielson got heir black belts around the same time. I was at gracie torrance when Craig came back from Brazil a newly minted black belt, but Reylson Gracie (who says Kenny was first) gave Kenny his around the same time. So there’s still a debate on who’s actually #1. But it’s definitely one of the two.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu Really? First time I've ever heard that. Wasn't Steve Maxwell Reylson's first Black belt? Craig was first. No question. Got it from Royler and Helio in Brazil. Got an old issue of black belt magazine with an article from Rorion congratulating Craig on being the first black belt.
