Gotta say, as a Christian, I deeply appreciate the approach you took in this video. You were very respectful toward all these bands that I have loved, and you were also fair in your judgment of the preachy arrogance some of the bands adopted toward the end of that era. It’s good to hear see that movement acknowledged in this way, and calling attention to the unhealthy idea of “Christian music” versus “secular music.” Music doesn’t belong to anyone-we’re all sharing in something that is human, regardless of our beliefs.
I think you are so right when you mentioned that a label as a “Christian band” is so hard to be sustainable. Even if you’re a Christian we all mess up, and when all that scrutiny is put on you because it’s part of your brand, it’s so unhealthy. I grew up in the church, and I thought this was a cool video. Probably some things I’d say differently, but most of it is very well said. It’s such a touchy subject and really is just a label.
Brent Jenner The debate isn’t about the reality of God, rather labels associated with Christianity in the music scene. I said I grew up in a church, aka as a kid, when you go where your parents take you. I’ve got a brain. One that can see that we are all entitled to our own opinions, and respects alternate views of the world. And one that can understand your anger since you’ve been dealt such a shitty situation. Cancer sucks, and I sincerely wish you the best with wherever you are in the process. I know I’m just a rando on the internet, but kick it’s ass if you haven’t already! Stay strong dude!
One definite positive about the Christian metalcore craze, was the amount of positivity it injected into the scene. Even with many of the bands reconsidering their faith, their positive messages made everyone feel welcome and tried to put out a positive message, which I think was the major criticism most heavy music received for years.
Cam I remember first getting into hardcore/metal music and having to ignore the negative lyrics and just focus on how the music sounded, which takes away from half the point of listening. When these bands came into the mix it was like a positive breath of fresh air
millennial_falcon You clearly know nothing about hardcore and what it represents and don’t belong in our scene. Ignoring hardcore lyrics is literally ignoring half of what hardcore is.
newthrash1221 you clearly just wanted to make yourself feel better at the expense of someone who isn’t as well versed in the genre as you. I’d argue people like you don’t belong in any scene.
I grew up in the Christian hardcore/metalcore era, I can definitely say that it had a positive impact on my life. It provided me with a sense of community and stability. I made great friends and enjoyed my Friday and Saturday nights at shows, while others that I knew in different scenes were getting involved with drugs and negative things. It has had a lasting impact on me to this day; even though it wasn't perfect I look back fondly on those days.
Funny thing is that when I was getting into metalcore, I never realized just how many bands I enjoyed were indeed "Christian" - I liked the music, and the lyrics were all about confidence, empowerment, being your best self, overcoming obstacles and adversity, etc. It was easy to relate to in a general sense and it was accompanied by some badass riffs and vocals, and I was/am all here for it!
I'm late to this, but I agree. A lot of people didn't realize these bands were Christian bands. I would be listening to these bands with people, and I'd tell them "You know they're Christian right?" Then I'd get a "WHAT?!?!" or a "Are you serious?!?" Very well said comment.
That is a lot of what Christianity teaches, just that it teaches mainly from a perspective of that being achieved through a relationship with a higher power.
As someone who is a Christian and was in a Christian band during this era, You really did nail this. I honestly remember quite vividly when faith came into style and when it came out of style. I do think in that there were some people that were sincere, but most changed with the seasons and just went on to something else. I learned firsthand that being in a "christian band" was very problematic. Nowadays, I'm definitely a Christian in a band, but I don't make the distinction with my music. I'll let my music and my messages speak for themselves. I personally get super grossed out by preaching bands from any perspective (stray from the path, for today being solid examples). I found that being what you are about in your personal life says a lot more than what you say on the stage in front of people.
@@joshkaseward the band I'm referencing was A Body Divided. I'm in a black metal band now, but we are still in the writing phase and have yet to release material.
If you're a "christian in a band" why *wouldn't* you evangelize? Other than not wanting to "gross out" non-believers? Jesus commanded us to evangelize.
@@xxxxxxxxxxxx254 That's a great question. It all comes down to how you define evangelize. I learned the quote "preach the gospel, and use words when necessary" when I was in Bible college, and it really stuck with me. The way that you interact with and ultimately treat the people around you says a lot more about your faith than quoting some Bible verses between songs on stage. The non-believer in the crowd doesn't care about your Bible verses and probably doesn't want to hear your testimony. They will however notice when you treat people with kindness. They'll notice when you offer to help other bands load and unload their stuff (which I was really bad at). They'll notice when you are respectful of the venue and promoter. they'll notice when you take time out of your night to hang out with the weird kid at the show that no one else wants to talk to. Anybody can tell anybody that they are a Christian. But ultimately walking the walk typically doesn't need a verbal explanation.
It's so rare to find another person who identifies as atheist, but has a fundamental appreciation for Christianity and explored it with an open mind! I really appreciate your sense of nuance.
It’s very interesting for me. I think a lot of atheists CAME from religion, and many of those from Christianity. To be entirely honest, as an atheist who grew up in the church, it’s hard for me to have much appreciation for Christianity at all. That isn’t to say there aren’t Christians I find to be wonderful people - my parents, for example, who are genuinely good people. However, overall, I’ve seen too much to have a lot of respect for it.
Emerald Atheism maybe rare in your brainwashed Christian country mate. There is a whole world out there! Pretty stupid ignorant comment. 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
I played in Overcome in 2010-2011, when it felt like metalcore (and particularly Christian metalcore) was at its height. [A lot of younger scene kids at that time hated us because we didn't play breakdowns, haha...] We played shows with secular bands, it wasn't a problem for us at all, and I'm grateful for that. We played shows with "Christian" bands, or at "Christian" venues with "Christian" audiences, and sometimes those interactions did get weird. Bands that are labeled "Christian" have to deal with a unique set of expectations from their fanbase, kids' parents and youth pastors, [potentially] their record label, other bands, media people, promoters, venue staff, etc., not to mention among their own bandmates. That kind of mix can cause any young person with ANY set of beliefs go through an identity crisis. Some bands can safely navigate that territory. Others want nothing to do with that kind of weird pressure and check out. And still others, well, we've seen where they take advantage of those expectations for their own gain. As for Overcome, we were all Christians, and one of my biggest takeaways from my time with them is the memory of us praying for about thirty seconds at the start of each practice, usually to the effect of, "Thank you, Lord, for giving us the opportunity to turn our amps up and be stupid loud. Help us get through these songs we're working on. We hope You find our noise pleasing." It was never about money, or trying to save people, or trying to change the world. Years later, I'm still praying that same thing.
Always got a kick out of Jason thanking us for liking Overcome even though there weren't any breakdowns. I think he mentioned it in the liner notes for Indwelling too.
As an Arkansan and Christian metal fan, I really appreciate that you gave a shout out to Living Sacrifice. I also really appreciate that you're open-minded and accepting of those Christian bands and bands with Christians who are authentic in their message, branding, and musicianship. I pretty well agree on all points with your video. It was obviously extremely well researched and informed. Thanks!
Living Sacrifice is still one of my favorite bands. I remember seeing them play in a very small club in New Hampshire and they put on a hell of a show.
i think demon hunters new stuff has more depth. for sure it isnt fast and heavy like the first album, but still love it. i especially love how they and living sacrifice have stuck to their beliefs instead of giving in to societal pressure.
As a former Christian from a past Christian metal band (Seven System), I can say that I agree with you comments. If the music is solid it will hold up. If it is not, it will be forgotten. Dont use religion as the driving force behind the music, let the music stand on its own.
This was a fantastic video. I'm sorry that I am coming to it so late. As someone who was growing up as a Christian teenager in the 1990's, this was all right in my wheelhouse. The clips of Living Sacrifice, Zao, Embodyment, and Extol (all of which I saw in concert while I was in high school) was a nice trip down memory lane. I really appreciate your reflection that the lyrics of the Christian bands at that time offered you something that you didn't find elsewhere. The positivity was beneficial to you even though you didn't ascribe to the same belief system as a whole. As a young Christian, I appreciated the same thing from the opposite viewpoint. These bands were willing to deal with the difficult aspects of being a Christian. So many of the "popular" Christian artists avoided dealing with the fact that Christians get angry, Christians get sad, Christians struggle with doubt, Christians are humans. The hardcore scene dealt with these issues openly and - mostly - honestly. Probably the most interesting concert I ever attended had five bands, three were Christian and two were outwardly hostile or "satanic" in their lyrics. The order of the night was new local Christian band, then local "satanic" band, then Society's Finest (local Christian), then another local "satanic" band, then Embodyment (local Christian). The crowd was...diverse. Anyway, thank you for your balanced examination of this genre that I still enjoy today.
For me, I was raised in the church and still have a strong foundation on Christianity and when I wanted to start listing to metal I looked at tooth and nail bands because my mom couldn't argue letting me listen to God based lyrics when I would show her them... Underoath absolutely changed my life! Thank you for making a great video... absolutely loved the video!
As a Christian, I appreciate how charitable you are to them so much. You acknowledge that there are distortions of the faith, and those do not embody true belief. That is huge man. It is so frustrating to feel misrepresented by televangelists and celebrities who care more about their reputations (or who try to have their wife killed).
Unfortunately, it comes with the territory. I can't count the times I had conversations about the guys from Tension carrying guns and pulling them on people, or even when certain straightedge bands talking about PMA start using violence against others who drink. But if only 1 out of every 10 people ask me a question with sincerity and introspection- then it's all worth it.
I second the good feelings from the way you are charitable towards faith people. Interesting that Time doubting seemed to justify his probable affair which lead to (and/or came from) his full on denial of his faith and then to trying to kill his wife. Really seems like he wasn't trying to be a christian and a murderer at the same time his denial lead to him becoming a murderer. Not to say that people aren't out there trying to look like christian politicians while also being murderers but just pointing out that the two are not compatible. "Christians" who intentionally screw people over (or hire hitmen) are probably always not Christians at all. They are atheists (sorry) who are duping people.
I enjoyed the video and as a Christian, I agreed with a lot of what you say and hate the hypocrisy of some Christians. I'm a 43 tear old Scottish guy who loves his Punk and I grew up with a lot of the punk being anti-christian but that was OK as I couldn't relate to the tele-evangelists and preachy people. In my faith in Jesus, I look at him as a great example of punk . He challenged authority when they were wrong, stood up for the poor and looked out for the weak in society. Keep the videos coming.
Kenny Hutchison always loved the irony in Jesus basically being a leftist, while all his supporters are on the right. obviously this is where punk has a big issue with the idea of religion, despite the irony of who he was
Nice, I also was big into the punk scene for a while. I still think that punk and Christianity go together really well. Nice to see that others do too!
I grew up in this world. Whether you think it was awesome or cringey or both, it was real and authentic. A lot have left Christianity since this time. I left and came back and became Orthodox ☦️ but this was my life and a lot of other kids. Respectful presentation 🖤
As a christian I'm glad impending doom was mentioned, they easily had one of the most balanced images that a "christian" band could have. They were boldly christian in their songwriting and lifestyle, but they also were talented, sincere, didn't spare the grit and even called out BS in the Christian community when they saw it, and it was done without being judgemental. The serpent servant, deceiver, baptized in filth, and hellhole were just a few that managed to catch the gritty, less-fun side of it all. I have massive respect for bands that are sincere in whatever it is they choose to do, even if I don't agree with them.
Yep, I would add Living Sacrifice and Demon Hunter to that list. Ryan Clarke does not hold back when he sees something that needs to be called out. Case in point "Cross to Bear".
Demon Hunter is a very unapologetically Christian metal band. Yes, it's that "American Christian" flavour but their conviction is admirable, songs like Cross to Bear, Death and Undying are just brutal as hell with an aggressive delivery of a Christian message.
Learned about those bands in a videogame (impending doom, ffak, Demon hunter) and i gotta say as an ex atheist Impending doom drop the hardest stuff i ever heard and the lyrics make you rethink your belief without preaching
I'm a Christian, I loved this video. You are right on. Just remember that humans are the ones who make those mistakes, not the God they try to worship. Whether you believe in God or not, we should love everyone with nothing expected in return.
As a Christian myself, I love the open mindedness you showed in the video, and appreciate you not bashing religion. Also, Fit For a King is probably one of the best Christian Metalcore bands still around
I am a pastor in Payson, Arizona, and I was super hard-core into the metal scene at probably about the same time that you were. I actually got into Christian metal in 1999 with Skillet. My first exposure to Christian metal was there album “invincible.“ I did not know that such a thing as good Christian music existed until I heard their music. It wasn’t long before I got into thousand foot Krutch, Rod, Laver, embodiment, living sacrifice, spoken, and many other Christian metal artists. I remember when Underoath got really big, and embraced a more emo sound to their music. What I appreciate about your video, is, it gives me an outsider perspective as to how that genre of music affected everyone else. I also appreciate that you try to stay in the center with your review, and show respectful sides to this genre, instead of slamming everybody. Thank you. I appreciate it. :-)
Loved this video Finn. I've thought the same thing as you when listening to Christian Hardcore bands regarding lyrics. It's one of the things that kept me listening to them because they weren't taking the "life is hard so I'm going to bitch about it" approach but rather a "life is hard so I'm going to power through it and be a better person because of it" approach. That really resonated with me. I loved the positivity versus wallowing in sadness.
Shout out to Disciple!! The band that got me into this genre as a young Christian Kid. Just recently my band opened up for them, they are still around and as relevant as ever. They’ve always been preachy but I think people have respected them for not changing their message literally since the 90s. And they’re just a killer band
This guy has a balanced view of Christians even though he doesn't (or did not previously) consider himself a Christian (anymore). He says he is a Christian ally and is able to see all the positive things that it did for him. Great job with this video. It is common to see people who are no longer Christians who become bitter about Christianity to a fault. This guy is clearly not in that category.
I grew up in the church scene and I think the main draw for us wasn't the lyrics or the message of the music. It was a way we could convince our parents to listen to rock music. "But mom, look it's a song about Jesus." It was a gateway to a genre that was otherwise forbidden. I wonder where bands like mewithoutYou/Thrice/Brand New fall in this discussion. Are they on the Underoath/NJ side of the equation or the Reliant K side? Great video man. Keep it up.
A lot of kids I grew up with were evangelicals, and their parents would only let them listen to Christian bands, and that was how I got into a lot of those bands. I could have cared less about the message, I loved the guitar work, it was heavy, it made you wanna mosh, it was totally cool with me. But my friends’ zealot parents drove me insane
I know Dustin Kensrue from thrice is super religious, but I never really got that feeling from Brand New (even with a song called Jesus Christ) and especially not from mewithoutyou. Maybe Ive just missed it or don’t know any better. I’m curious to learn more about that though.
Yea Thrice isn't really Christian band but Dustin is very religious, he has a solo basically praise and worship sutff. Mewithoutyou was for a long time but they started looking into other religions and and trying out influences form several other religions. He is super awesome and humble and after shows you can talk to him and ive had several discusions with him bout all kinds of things. But haven't in a while so don't know where he stands. and Brandnew that who album was made after the girl from Eisley and him fell out and she went on to marry the guitarist from New Found Glory. It wasnt so much religious it was him in a bad place and mad at her and questioning everything.
Same. I remember putting on Zao and my mom started freaking out. "If you can't understand what he's saying then you don't know if he's a christian!" So I show her the cd sleeve. "Lies!" she screams. "It sounds like satan!" To this day she still wont accept that metal can be christian. lol.
I was a Christian for 20 years, a youth pastor for 10 years, and a pastor for 4 years. I didn't even know what hardcore music was until I heard the aforementioned Tooth & Nail bands. It opened me up to a whole new world. Right before Underoath released The Changing of Times, right at the end of their black metal days, a buddy of mine and I paid them $400 to come play a show in Shreveport, Louisiana. There was no scene here so most of the kids who showed up were expecting a sound like Third Day or maybe a little harder sounding. We made it a free show so many youth group kids came and listened to some black metal and didn't know what to think. Looking back, I bet the experience was awkward for the guys in Underoath but my friends and I were glad to be able to see them live before they hit it big. I am no longer a Christian but still appreciate this music which is still a big part of my life. Thank you for posting this.
They're not really hardcore anymore but Emery will always be my favorite band. Underoath and Norma Jean are still awesome to this day. Thanks for the insightful and open-minded video.
Grew up in the Church, and going through High School and Youth Group with all these bands was awesome. Never understood the big negative push pack to Christianity in Metal in to 80s and 90s. But hearing about the televangelists makes total sense.
Just a shout out to Demon Hunter. Besides the great mixture of metalcore and alternative metal, their vocalist Ryan Clark did a packaging and design for many bands inside/outside the scene. Thanks for the video Finn!
Yeah actually know a guy who grew up in like rural Iowa and Demon Hunter was huuuuuuge for him, like the only heavy music he was able to get his hands onto and relate to and they opened up the scene to him. Good stuff
And let's not forget Training For Utopia pre Demon Hunter... I spotted the 'Two Hands' video... Plastic Soul Impalement is still one of my favourite albums all these years later, and I'm not a Christian but the purity (and intensity) of their delivery hit home so much.
I am not a christian but ive always felt a deep appreciation for those churches around the country that allowed our band to tour and have amazing shows in a great atmosphere. They really stepped up and gave kids an outlet/weekly activity to stay out of trouble and find something they identified with. That 2004-2007 scene was golden.
Your channel is immaculately curated man. So happy for you. This is very well done. Spotify playlists are a nice touch too Also, long live The Chariot.
Man, talk about a nostalgia bomb. You popped up on my youtube recommendations out of nowhere and I'm super happy with it. The pop-punk section, clips from The Chariot, Zao, etc. Thanks for the video!
Honestly I’m a Nu Metal kid, so bands like POD, 38th Parallel, Jonah33, Project 86, Justifide, Flyleaf, Skillet, Thousand Foot Krutch, Pivitplex, and Red also had their own mini scene going on for them.
P86 is one of the most underrated bands to never hit it big, Schwab is a lyrical genius - Drawing Black Lines is one of the best Christian metal albums of all time and I'd put it up against nearly any NuMetal album of the time.
@@mikeisaiah768 I'm digging this up 5 months later because... How is P86 not one of the most well remembered and referenced Christian bands from back in the day?! I remember them being an absolute force when I was a teen and now ... nothing. Boggles the mind.
I am a Jesus follower and i spend my teens twenties, and thirties growing up with and listening to all of these bands. I appreciate how well this was put together and outlined. Living Sacrifice, Extol, Focused, The Blamed, just to name a few changed how my faith grew. Props for creating this video. Kudos for keeping it on the level.
Really appreciate the emphasis on openness, reflection, and change. P.O.D. was my first ever "favorite band" as a kid and Underoath is easily my favorite metalcore band. Despite being agnostic, I've always found the genre very cathartic and important to my own personal growth. Cheers, dude.
I grew up in the Christian metal scene and when I described the difference between a Christian hardcore pit and a regular hardcore pit I'd say they are just as brutal except in the Christian pit if you get knocked over someone always stops to pick you back up. Living Sacrifice, Zao, Project 86, Mercury Switch, As I lay Dying. So many good bands from that era.
"I'm still an atheist, but I have learned a lot from Christianity." Amen brother, it's refreshing to hear someone with such an open mind. Rock on. Thanks for the solid content.
Finn... you out did yourself with this one, my dude! What an incredible video. The level of respect that you gave to what has always been and always will be a socially sensitive subject is admirable. I hate to use the term “safe space”, but with the way you very carefully and meticulously put together this video was a nice reminder to myself as well as many others that, regardless of our beliefs, music can be our safe space and common ground. What an incredible piece of work. You gained some mad respect from a lot of people.
Nice video bruh. definitely liked it. only thing i'll add is that august burns red also as went through a period of questioning faith and being labeled as christian. video was top notch though and you mentioned them, just didnt add them to the memphis may fire, underoath, as i lay ding point of questioning faith/type changes. cheers and god bless.@@ThePunkRockMBA
So I first discovered the Christian Metal scene back in 2011/12 after I started going to church again and rededicated my life to Christ. I was honestly blown away by how big it was and how much passion was involved with these bands. It’s something I honestly miss with bands nowadays. Unfortunately, a lot of the big bands in the scene either called it quits or ended abandoning the faith altogether. It’s a shame as I’ve always had such a huge love for the Christian Metal community. I even started a small group at my church for people who liked the same music as I do (which were only like 4 people in the whole church but it’s still pretty dope).
Former Christian. I first came around to hardcore/metal in roughly 2004. Bands like Atreyu, Darkest Hour, All That Remains, etc just resonated with me. Then one of my friends started showing me Christian bands in the scene. Underoath, TDWP, Haste the Day, and Still Remains for example. I had been having a really hard time dealing with PTSD and I had turned to Christianity for help. The music is what really helped me though. Still Remains has a song called Recovery that I'd listen to when I had a panic attack or when the depression got too heavy. It always helped raise my spirits. I love the Christian music scene from then. I've since grown out of it since I've realized a lot of my beliefs don't align with Christianity but I don't have animosity for the religion itself, just some of it's followers. It was a fantastic scene and I still listen to a lot of those albums I grew up with. Thanks for the video. It really took me back.
As a guy who came of age in the church, in the 90’s, discovering T&N, and then as an adult moving away from my roots, thanks for this video. Great summary. A lot of us are like that: grew up churchy, moved away, but still enjoy the positive or philosophic lyrics and just plain musical genius of many of these bands. It’s been amazing as a father to be able to turn my kids toward actually good music with a positive message, when that option really didn’t exist growing up. What’s so fucking cool today is seeing teens at my son’s HS “discovering” some of these bands, like it’s some cool new thing - and not giving a shit what religion the band identifies as.
I love how open and honest you are about this whole genre and how it challenged your thought process. In the end, of course, you had to decide what is right for you.
Oh man, Norma Jean brings me back. One of my old bands used to jam Memphis Will be Laid to Waste before every show. In fact, we were told that they had recorded their entire album as a complete ensemble in one take so we recorded out first album the same way. It's was actually a pretty cool experience. I don't recommend it for everyone, but it really forces you to focus on your musicianship which I think brings an interesting dynamic to the record.
Wow really cool critique of the whole Christian metal genre. You dont hear to often someone who isn't a Christian be respectfully critical. Keep it up!!!
@@alexnicastro9255 Southwest Ohio was a breeding ground for metalcore in this era. Sucks that it's completely deteriorated now. It was truly up there with Socal and Florida with pumping out bands and dope shows.
Alex Nicastro saw as i lay dying at the attic once. Went to see RED almost every time they played there too. The scream the prayer stuff was cool too with the two stage setups
I never paid attention to people in my church who said that metal is inherently satanic when I was a kid. As an adult, I've grown in my faith and I'm really happy that there are christian metal bands who's music teaches lessons that no other genre can. Bands like Wolves at The Gate and Rival Choir do a fantastic job at teaching about the brokenness of humanity and the effects of sin. That's why they're two of my favorite bands.
Norma Jean is what got me into mathcore. When I first heard their sound, I got addicted to the raw aggression of their sound. Christian metal, in my opinion, is starting to develop into a favorite genre of mine.
Fun story, back in high school one of my friends was wearing an underoath tour shirt, I say to him, "you know that's a Christian band right?" he kicked me on my leg and yelled "don't ever say something like that again!" I still laugh about that to this day
I cut my teeth on Spirit Filled Hardcore in the mid-late 90's. My dad was a preacher in a small Illinois farm town but we had a lady from our church who went west and ended up working for T&N Records. She came back to visit occasionally and was basically my connection to the outside world musically. Being a PK I had it rough in that little town and always felt very isolated, so when she turned my on to Unashamed, Focal Point, Living Sacrifice (still my favorite band), Embodyment, Zao...my whole life changed. The music these bands created became like the friends I never had. I would occasionally drive far away to get a chance to see them and went to Cornerstone every year I could. Were it not for that music I don't know what I would be. I love most of the bands that came later, but I was in a regional touring Christian band from 2008-2012 that played with a number of bigger bands and I was not surprised when things began to implode. We could smell the blood in the water and frankly what happened probably needed to. But those early days man...were spiritual for me. Thank you so much for this video Finn. xSFHCx
i was never in a touring band but if you went to and/or played cornerstone and other shows in illinois in the past 20ish years there's a good chance we've crossed paths. what was your band called? have you been to audiofeed?
For Today was very preachy, but definitely not bigots or fakes. They took their faith seriously and we're just following the command of spreading the gospel to others. And many people were touched by it, and that's why I'm a Christian today.
I have been an atheist for as long as I can remember, but GOD DAMN I loved me some TnN bands in the 90's....Focal Point, Zao, Strongarm, Blindside, Unashamed, etc.
As someone who was a Christian during this era, and very into the scene, I think you nailed it on the head! One thing I would add is that inside the church there is this us-vs-them mentality for every aspect of life. There are Christian bookstores, Christian schools, and Christian music because it keeps those inside the church “safe” from The World. So, in my opinion, one of the downfalls with the whole Christian music industry is that people inside it realize that it is run just like the secular ones, and I think as these bands progressed in their beliefs they started seeing the hypocrisy. Also, the Christian industry tends to be behind the secular industry by about a year or two (with a few exceptions) so as this style of music fell off the map the Christian one was almost predestined to follow suit a year or two later.
I think the fans also changed. We were both heavily into the scene, and neither of us are Christians today. And scrolling around, there's tons more of us here in the comments.
Yep such a great band, I got saved in '98 and it was extremely hard for me to find good heavy music that I liked in the christian scene; There weren't many bands to listen to, when there were thousands of bands in the secular scene. Extol and a few other bands definitely made the transition a bit easier for me personal. But yea the selection was very slim, just the same as now.
I loved this. I grew up in church and I'm still a Christian, and it's actually super helpful for me to hear your perspective re: the phony jokers from the 80s, etc. I specifically recall only being allowed to listen to Christian bands, but my parents didn't think metal or hardcore or whatever could be Christian. So I wrote an essay that had a lyrical breakdown of bands like Living Sacrifice, Project 86, a ton of the Tooth and Nail and Solid State Records bands you mentioned I hadn't thought of in years. 😂 what a funny time. Thank you for the respectful way you broached this and for the trip down memory lane. I'm about to jam to some No Innocent Victim.
I grew up in the christian punk/hardcore scene, played in many bands all along the spectrum and I've gotta say this video hits the nail on the head. I think the last part about people kinda "growing up out of their faith" is accurate. People change their perspectives and opinions as they get older sometimes, so it's kind of a natural occurance when it happens. Great video, keep up the good work. PS. this video made me remember a lot of the stuff i grew up listening to. Living Sacrifice, ZAO, EXTOL... basically the entire Tooth and Nail/Facedown catalog. My band's first show was with Embodyment back in 2000. Also if you haven't already- check out these Facedown bands: HANDS (no longer active but super amazing), EVERYTHING IN SLOW MOTION (Singer from HANDS formed this band), My Epic is also really great! Peace.
Thanks to my 27 yr old daughter who lived this rise and "fall" for exposing me to you . I'm a 60 yr old very conservative Christian (conservative politics NOT conservative in Theology). I really dislike (personally) the music style she loved growing up - but loved that the lyrics were at least "Christian". Thanks for the education as to what happened to the genre. Even I noticed that the lead part of the description of this metal genre had dropped the "Christian" label. I don't spend much time listening to 17 minute podcasts - and while you aren't needing the endorsement of a "Grumpy old guy" #1 YOU are a very good communicator#2 I hope (and pray - really) that you get a larger following - you are articulate and have a well thought out style.#3 your video background while a little less meaningful to me (I lived thru several of these changes :) ) was helpful.#4 I really love you description of "punk" promoting the questioning of EVERYTHING. #5 I hope your listeners actually can listen to 17 minutes of well thought out 'history". Much of my generation and younger are guilty of having 30 second attention spans - you did hold my attention very well. #6 As a self serving challenge to your listeners/viewers I hope the 'punk' followers also keep challenging/questioning everything ! I still prefer MY music :) but you represent your generation - and I assume other genres well. NOT that you need MY approval :) Neil McNeill
Absolutely loved this video man, I know I'm a year late but as a christian, hearing you say you're an atheist, but a Christian ally, gives me mad respect for you. The bands have been listening to a whole lot recently have been fit for a king, sleeping giant, saving grace, August burns red, and demon hunter.
This video was rad. I think it would be cool if you did a video on the Christian punk bands of the late 90s and early 2000s. Bands like Headnoise, Officer Negative, and you could even go into a little ska like the O.C. Supertones. Good video dude
Really enjoyed that! Thought it came across really balanced and the personal side was quite touching. I've never been religeous or had any supernatural beliefs, but I totally get what you are saying about the lyrics having a meaning and personal connection. As much as I love the usual metal tropes, as I get older lyrics about self improvement and being a better person, resonate far more than lyrics about serial killers etc
Don’t ever bring up “church camp shower” again. U know what happened at church camp showers. Horrible horrible and hardly any arrests were made. This sickos man!!!
Underøath are still one of my favorite bands of all time. Since I've left the faith since first finding them, the newest album is not only fantasy, but incredibly relatable for me.
Finn, I can't think of a better person than you to cover this scene. Drawing that comparison between the phoney TV preachers and the later phoney bands is so apt. Your definition of punk ( question everything, especially your own assumptions and prejudices) is right on.
Another great video! I have a few cents to add since I grew up in Southern California, was around for the early days of Spirit Filled Hardcore, even having a band that was on a Tooth and Nail compilation (Helpless Amongst Friends Vol 2). We played all the time way back when with bands like Focused, Overcome, and Unashamed. I know you can’t possibly cover everyone, but from a point of history it can’t be overstated how important The Crucified were in ushering in SFHC. They were this sort of bridge between metal and hardcore. Prior to them, Vengeance Rising was sort of the first “extreme” metal that graduated Christian rock from Stryper to bands like Believer (For an utterly compelling story, try reading about their singer Roger Martinez - It needs a documentary) The Crucified released a couple albums, but it’s their last full length, The Pillars of Humanity, that is every bit worth your time. It was remixed and re-released by Tooth and Nail a few years back. They had moderate success outside of church rock by opening for bands like Pantera. Keep up the great videos, and refreshingly level headed delivery!
Thanks man! Didnt cover those bands because they were before my time and this isnt intended to be the entire history - but I do remember vengeance rising and roger being...... unique
Yeah, I figured as much. Back in the day I found SFHC because I went to go see The Crucified at local clubs and all the regulars started opening for them, which was way more my interest level in general. Fun fact - Stavesacre was formed out of the ashes of The Crucified. Keep up the great videos. They rule.
@@skallywag78 Maintain. We were freshman in high school at the time, all of us ditched school for the day to record in Riverside at Bob Moon's studio. We had a blast and it's a super meaningful memory for me.
Love that you added Silent Planet video at the end. I grew up in the church as a pastors kid. LOVED these bands growing up. To back up what this guys saying I've been listening to Shane Told's Podcast from Silverstein's "Lead Singer Syndrome" and its amazing to be able to hear the interviews with "Christian" bands learning about their faith and where it went.
“Breakdowns for God” 😩. Awesome. Another great video, Finn. Loved your anecdotes about your own religious exploration. I think I remember some drama with Underoath’s drummer being called a fake Christian or something by fans? Imagine gatekeeping being religious. Aaron didn’t deserve that. I think paramore had to come out and make the distinction that they’re Christians, but not a Christian band.
My favorite Christian band has been and always shall be The Chariot. No band has ever had more energy or stage presence than them. They could even take on Dillinger for most chaotic shows.
My first introduction to Josh Scogin was at PurpleDoor festival in 2004(?) with NJ. I believe the next year he was there with the Chariot and that show was crazy. Also the festival where I discovered Still Remains on a tiny side stage.
Zao strictly toured on churches for a long time, but the band kept getting shit for the style of their music being "demonic." It's easy to see why they got frustrated.
Demon Hunter got it worse for having the word Demon in their name, I remember just laughing at the ignorant religious zealots spewing hate on great bands just because they chose to dislike the music
I remember the time I was in a local Christian bookstore and asked the owner if she had any Tourniquet albums. She looked left, looked right, and pulled three different Tourniquet CDs out and just gave them to me. Apparently some woman had yelled at her the week prior about the evilness of the band. It was one of the best/saddest days I have had in regards to music and the Church.
If churches practiced what they preached, the christian metal scene would probably rival most just from churches being willing to be venues for them. They only have theirselves to blame for so many of them turning away from Christianity.
I've been a devout Christian my whole life and am so happy Christian metalcore bands existed. I've always been a huge metal fan but felt somewhat conflicted when it came to my faith and taste in music, a lot of these bands showed me that these don't have to be mutually exclusive from eachother and that I can absolutely enjoy both. It's what kept my inspiration up and helped me continue to pursue music as a passion.
I'm a protestant Christian and have been for 12 years. I also grew up with a ton of these bands so I can probably give you some insider baseball here: When you have any kind of worldview that is so encompassing like Christianity calls for, there is a sort of "maintenance" aspect to that worldview. This isn't exclusive to religion, it's the same with sports, veganism, politics, etc. Soccer players hang out with other soccer players, vegans hang out with other vegans, democrats with other democrats, etc. The problem with a lot of these Christians in bands is that they had to spend 99% of their year on the road for their band to succeed with people who are generally hostile to religion. Think of a democrat spending 5 years working for a republican campaign, a vegan spending 10 years employed by McDonald's, etc. Their minds will almost inevitably change. Some of these guys are still Christians, but because they've spent so much time away from a HEALTHY church that doesn't preach "Jesus makes you rich after you make me rich" bullcrap, they will adapt a more secular view of Christianity that is essentially not Christianity. For fans like me, it took some time to realize that the success of these bands did not make them any more Christian. As a matter of fact, it made them the opposite. As Christians like me grew up we stopped handing over money and attention to these fake bands and so Tooth & Nail and even SolidState had to start signing bands that didn't even make an effort to profess Christianity. It was a recipe for disaster. God worked through it for sure, but that testifies to His mercy that He would "draw straight lines with crooked sticks" The Christian music industry is also incredibly disgusting. Inside and outside the church. Inside the church we widely accept and promote songs that are incredibly vapid, don't even mention Jesus, and would better fit a Taylor Swift record (see Good Good Father by HouseFires) Outside the church it's just trying to be deceptively unChristian while being Christian? People feel cheated haha. See what Lecrae is doing. Listen to Aaron Gillespie's podcast episode on BadChristian. It explains why he was so disillusioned with the Christian music industry. Dude went from making a worship album to saying religion should be nowhere near music. Anyway, love your videos! Hope my comment added something to you.
Thanks man its really refreshing to see that. And I wanna be another "as a Christian myself, here's my story" but I started questioning my faith for sure cause I well grew up listening to all sorts of punk and metal while being raised Catholic. Thankfully despiye being gullible & stupid looking back, I was able to grow up open minded and attempt to be more comprehensive; and it honestly scary hearing the idea that some bands are not who they say they are much having the uncertainty cause it can make you go crazy. To this day I'll still go to church (in choir), go to a charismatic conference yet listen to ABR, Sleeping Giant, Bad Religion, PWD, Casting Crowns, and thats an odd list and wide spectrum. And thanks to Punk Rock MBA. I love your content cause it reminds there are times I can learn things outside the church settings and exposes to more great bands whether I like em or not. Hopefully I can keep committed to my faith and be have clairvoyance. Have a good one bros.
You're absolutely right. As a Christian who grew up listening to a lot of the Christian punk and hardcore bands, I've been saddened to see how many have fallen away or given up their faith or have watered down the Gospel until it's too vague to be of any substance. Many of them just got burned out or lacked a solid group of believers to fellowship with. Thankfully there are a few (like Craig's Brother) that are still going and seem to have that same fire, which is a blessing!
Woah, Andres is on here? That's awesome, thanks for commenting. Your time with Mouth of the South & working on The Saving was so cool to watch from the outside.
I personally relate more with what Finn alluded to in the video. As someone that was raised Christian with a hyper conservative father in the heart of BFN Tennessee, I loved finding new Christian bands. It was the only thing that made me feel any kind of welcome in the church at all. A band like For Today really felt like such a positive thing, almost like church for those who didn’t feel all that welcome in the actual church. It wasn’t until 4-5 years ago in my early 20’s where I really started questioning the beliefs and indoctrination that I was raised with. It was then that I asked myself the question, “do I really believe this stuff or is the idea of faith just what makes me feel comfortable because I was raised with it, and it’s all I’ve known?” The answer became pretty obvious at that point, as I’m a very logically thinking person, and it just never made much sense to me. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of these bands had similar revelations that caused them to stop identifying as Christians.
You're right--there was this weird period from like 2003-2008 where nearly every band was some form of Christian-core. I grew up in a holler in the Appalachia region of Kentucky and Christian 'core' was huge. There were a ton of local, regional, and touring bands that made their way to our neck of the woods. My personal favorite, Beloved, played one night in a double-wide trailer. There were many others such as the Showdown, Chasing Victory, and other Mono vs Stereo bands (I think this was an imprint on Solidstate, I may be wrong). And then there were bands like Thrice... still to this day my favorite band despite the underlying Christian lyrical themes. Excellent video as always.
I remember growing up in the church and also growing up in the punk/hardcore scene as a teenager. Being a christian was an absolute battle to hold onto my beliefs while still enjoying the music and lifestyle. They both felt right to me; speaking out against the ills of the world in a way that speaks in the angry and rough manner that I felt in my heart, but still holding strong to my convictions. When I first started looking into Christian Metal there were a LOT of Hair Metal horse crap that really turned me off to the idea. Then, one of my church friends told me about Project 86. While their sound was a bit more mainstream than what I was looking for, it still gave me hope that there was more out there, I just had to look for it. So, I did. I found stuff like Underoath, Seventh Angel, Mortification, Crashdog, you know... Wow... I suddenly didn't feel like I was being ripped in half anymore. I felt like I could be a Christian and Punk/Hardcore at the same time. I felt... complete. If nothing, the christian-core movement strengthened me as a person, but I also noticed that metal and punk started to take on more of a positive tone from thereon. Even if it wasn't a christian band, I was noticing that bands were starting to take on more empowering and self-affirming lyrics and tones. So, I think that christian-core kinda opened people's eyes to the need for a bit more positivity in the genre, whether they be christian bands or not.
Dang, this takes me back. I was ALL into the Christian pop punk/hard rock scene in high school (mid to late '00s). Heck, I still am, even though it's WAAAAAY smaller than it was. It's nice to see someone highlight that scene. And thanks for keeping it respectful! It really does mean a lot, especially nowadays. :) Would love to see a Christian pop punk spotlight!
I don’t understand why bands like Unashamed and Overcome never get the respect they deserve even in the spirit filled hardcore scene they seem to go unnoticed
This video gets me in the feels. I'm an atheist but grew up in the unofficial capital of Christian metal/hardcore music Douglasville ga, so I've seen every Christian metal/hard-core band who made music in the mid to late 2000s. That positive vibe is what I needed as an outcast teenager. Love the channel Keep up the good work .
Kris Leggett when the 7 venue first opened they told my band we couldn’t play there bc it wasn’t Christian criteria smh.. Glad that didn’t last, there were a lot of great bands that were not
@@jonwujcik4936 not shocked actually , but I saw bands like carnifex, emmure and bury your dead there. Hundreds of kids saying bury your fucking dead was pretty funny. While not perfect by any means it beats meth in dville What was your band btw
Right, I asked the owner the night the chariot opened the place up but later it changed and I saw BYD with the huge dogpile with everyone screaming bury your fucking dead..
ZAO was probably the first truly heavy band that I would listen to front to back, way before I knew they were xtian or anything. Loved seeing them get a shout out, I owe them a lot. Great video
Super, fair, open-minded, and honest approach. I feel like you definitely hit some nails on the head (I speak as a Christian who grew up almost solely on much of this music). “Christian bands” and “Christians in a band” are definitively two distinct things and I feel one of them works over the other. One of them has a better focus. Hands down, my favorite to this day is still Living Sacrifice and those dudes are STILL rocking after 35 years (like they just played Furnace Fest like a couple weeks ago). Thanks for the video - sorry I was two years late.
Awesome video! Chad from Strongarm shared it on facebook today and complimented you on your accuracy! ha. While doing Eulogy, John and I were discussing bands we had the opportunity to release and one of them was Christian at the time. We ultimately decided that our personal beliefs were not relevant to the audience and if we dig the music and the people making the music, we should work together. I was super into a few Christian bands at the time too like Zao and Stretch Armstrong which helped make the decision.
average joe why to bad? He’s out, they have a new album and it’s damn good. Couldn’t get a ticket to their reunion shows either. Think they’re just fine.
@@btgkg9639 Tim Lambesis is a hack and a horrible person to represent christianity. Forgiveness doesn't mean outright support and including them in the community anymore.
@@IHateMyAccountName Well they have been accepted back in the community and they’re doing just fine. Seems a lot of people have forgiven him, so I’m pretty sure Jesus forgave him too. Doesn’t seem very Christian to act like that.
As a kid that grew up in a Christian house, finding these bands was my introduction to heavy music. And I identified with it for the same reasons you mentioned, it challenged my mindset, I saw myself in the lyrics. I’m not religious any more, but dancing barefoot at a Sleeping Giant show in 2007 was still a spiritual experience in my eyes.
UnderØath still has Christians in the band, but their latest album is not only not Christian but is in fact incredibly anti-christian. Which is unfortunately understandable given that spencer wrote the lyrics and he had a major loss of faith after being poorly treated/handled by the Christian community when he was struggling with his addiction. It actually makes me really sad to think about how little love and support he received from the ones who should have been the first to show it. Just goes to show that Christians are human too.
An unfortunately uncommon theme. Mike Herrera from MxPx has drifted from his faith due to the way church pastors treated his look and the fact he smoked. How Dustin Kensrue from Thrice retains his faith after all the Mars Hill Church bollocks is amazing in itself.
The new Underoath record is so interesting to me. It is super anti-religion but there are spots in that album make me think Spencer isn't a non believer. I feel a sense of struggle from him kind of like the new LIMBS album too. So much faith struggle due to how people in the certain faith treated them.
@@ProgrammedForDamage goes to show he was Luke warm because he care more how he treated and less what god wanted. usually when christian complains about legalism usually mean they are Luke warm because they do not care what god thinks. There is difference between dogwood lyrics and mxpx lyrics that dogwood are more god centered.
Was anyone at the Underoath show in Tampa? Spencer explained the new album, his faith and his life experiences. It was emotional and really eye opening into what he believes in and his love mental state now. Some of them are christian, atheist, and so on. Great band and group of guys and will support them forever.
What a time that was! It seemed like most of all the biggest bands were Christian. Not only that, there weren't many bands that were openly atheist or against Christianity (except in the death metal scene). I'm not a religious person (quite the opposite), but some of the Christian bands from that era are still some of my favourites and made some amazing tunes!
Thumbs up man. I grew up playing with Those Who Fear and bands like that in Ohio and remember church shows with Plea For Purging and bands like that. I still have my faith and I am really happy to see you embrace the positive sides of this and call out the negative. Great content man.
@@ThePunkRockMBA The content is killer. I hope you get to start doing interviews with people in these different niches in future videos because I would love to hear the stories from those who were right up in the action and then hear your take on it too. Keep it up man!
