Protection paladins are actually the best main tanks in TBC, too, people just don't know it. They have the highest Stamina scaling in the game, Alliance protadins have the highest single target TPS in the game against demon and undead targets (which are most of the boss fights in TBC), they naturally have the highest avoidance as they need to reach over 102% with HS active, HS doesn't fall off on single targets (meaning they will be crushed far less, particularly useful for fights like Prince Malchazar, Illidan, Twins, etc.), they scale better than warriors and druids with gear, 2 piece T6 eliminates mana problems, and their T6, T6.5 pieces are extremely overstated. They also bring far more utility (cleanse, blessings, auras), and can even self cleanse almost any debuff in the game and be invincible for any single attack (thanks to Divine Shield, useful for fights like Kael). The whole meme about prot warriors being the end-all, be-all tank in TBC was just a holdout from how dominant prot warriors were in Vanilla. And don't listen to the salty prot warriors, protadins are actually horrible offtanks, as they have severe mana issues if they aren't taking damage (thanks to the way spiritual attunement works). All of that being said, there are definitely times when warriors do the job better (reliquary of souls, any fight with a silence, etc.), it's all about playing to the strengths of each class. But, overall, protection paladins are the best tank in TBC, period.
Not to mention being less concerned about parry haste, since threat is spell based, not melee swing based. And any parry haste that a boss receives makes the placing generate more threat through holy shield
Prot paladins, prot warriors, and feral druids are godly in tbc. Far more dynamic tank meta. I do however believe that prot wars and Pallys are almost dead even, but Warriors get the slight edge bc they can cap with expertise and make use of DFT/Naaru Sliver for insane threat. But if anyone denies the power of the tbc prot pally, they are absolute fools
I remember in TBC I took a prot war to my aoe gold farm spot outside BT where I would round up something like 200-300 mobs and AOE them down and the war was in loot heavon lol. The trinket that drops from last boss in SH heroic makes this possible as you can fully regain HP with all those mobs hitting you.
Pallys were definitely viable tanks overall, but you wont be a MT as one beyond tier 4. You will be there for tidewalker murlocs, hyjal trash, and running dungeons/heroics faster ONLY if you overgear them as a group.
Back in the days, I persuaded my guild to try my prot paladin build for main tank in our raids in TBC after I had geared up very early in the expansion, and it was such a blast! It has been many years since I played wow now, so sorry if I dont remeber the names of stuff, but one important thing to mention is regarding block capping and how it affacted the warrior and palading slightly differently. Block capping (at 104.9% block or whatever it was) was essential for any tank except the Druid. Warriors and Paladins had the same math for block capping, but the abilities that let them reach block cap worked differently. The warriors block abilty let them block a small amount of hits for a short while (2 blocks for 2 sec?) while the paladin had more like 6 blocks for 8 sec or something. The DC of the abilties were different (higher for the paladin) and was so that for example the Warrior would sometimes struggle to be block capped 100% of the time with bosses that could suddenly hit 3 times in a 1 sec window (auto attack combined with special attacks for example), while the paladin would sometimes struggle if it the boss had very fast autoattacks that would wear away the block charges quickly, leaving the paladin sometimes without blockcap for a big special attack etc.. Or any other combination of adds and abilties that would challange the warrior and paladin differently in maintaining block cap 100% of the time. This meant that each boss had a unique set of of criteria to evaluate before determing if the paladin or warrior tank was the best main tank. I will admit that warriors came out on top much more frequently than paladin as raid main tank for sure, but top progression guilds in TBC had a stigma against prot paladin that took a while to break (becasue they were nothing but a joke tank in vanila). There were defintly a few boss fights were prot pala would have been equal or better than warrior as main tank even in high progression guilds at the time, but was not used. And if you were not undergeared for the ancounter, paladin main tank meant faster raids (due to faster agro = faster DPS, and usually higher tank dps). I wonder if in the 'new' TBC, guilds attampting to be first to defeat bosses will use paladins as main tanks on some fights this time around? My thoughts on the 3 tank options as main raid tank is like this: WARRIOR: Less gear dependant to be block capped and overall the best tank / most likely to be able to perform the main tank role regardless of circustance. DRUID: Unique in that its health pool is the highest, so for some fights it is the only viable option at high progression level. Was better at AoE tanking and DPS than the prot warrior (but then the prot paladin came along :D). Can be more heavy on healer mana overall as they take more damage over time. PALADIN: Like the Warrior, but more gear depentant / overall slightly less HP, but overall also better at being block capped 100% of the time (but to be fair to warriors, skilled warrior tanks would manage to be block capped for the big hits that mattered, regardless of other boss mechanics). Paladins are only better as main tank if the specificities of the fight mean that they can be block capped more reliably AND that this is essential in the specific fight, or if early threat and DPS is critical and tank max hp is not, etc.. In fights were tank mitigation is less important, they can outshine the warrior also, but those fights are rare and even rarer at high progression level. The Paladin was also almost unsuited as main tank in some specific fights, while the warrior would never be unsuitable. Sorry for wall of text, old memories awoke :P
I MT’ed all the way through Black Temple, and a bit through Sunwell as prot pally, back in retail. So it’s more than possible. Also, I would aim for around 350+ spellpower unbuffed, at least for raiding. More spellpower also allows you to conserve mana. Plus a lot of enemies are either undead or demons, from which paladins can utilize Excorsism and Holy Wrath. And paladins would never rely on white damage for threat, there is a reason there is no strength on prot pally gear :) With oil and WoA totem, you should get around 500 spellpower easy.
The reasons were they gave Prot Paladins a way to regenerate enough mana when tanking, plate gear with spell damage started to drop in PvE from a lot of places and they got some survivability buffs. They were awesome because they were the only tanks in the game with real AoE threat. They were decent as MT but nothing special in 2.4.3 as both Warriors and Druids were generally better as MT.
Played Prot Pally in TBC Retail. As long as you stuck to "646" there were no mana issues. Short CD, Long CD, Short CD... Also Shadow priests were best friends of Pallys in TBC.
Did you play WoW during TBC? That statement that you needed a Def Paladin no to go Karazan is simply wrong. We never had one an made it without problems. The first time I saw one def Paladin was at Hyal for the trash waves. That aside a def Paladin was a rare sight during TBC at least to my expirience.
If you wanted to raid as paladin in TBC you went healer. There were no prot paladin on Stormscale EU.. which was the most competitive Eu realm at the time.
He is wrong even in regards to private servers lol... most raiding guilds don't give a crap about a prot pally until you hit tidewalker in SSC, then in hyjal for the trash. For tier 4, I was in an all warrior set up, and tier 5 we started with 3 prot warriors, but had one switch to make room for one prot pally when we hit tidewalker. One thing is for sure though, the amount of damage a pally takes is way higher than that of a warrior in TBC.
@@ShadowwingMD You don't need one, but pallys made handling murlocs a complete joke on tidewalker. I wasn't in a hardcore guild, but I was in a competitive one. Tidewalker was still a beast of a fight early on before most of your raid had gear from SSC/TK, so having a tank be able to protect the healers with ease was nice.
Just like he said you can make a macro to change your taunt to just taunt the target of your target, you can do the same with blessing of protection if the taunt is resisted or on cooldown. This is actually extremely nice as BOP will *never* be resisted. Blood elf prot pally is also a tad better just due to the aoe silence helping with stacking (and you can have other bloodelfs help you with this too if they are smart players).
This video was hard to watch as someone who played Prot Paladin from beginning to end of retail Burning Crusade and on Netherwing from start to Illidan. Some of things he is saying are right on the money while other things are completely wrong. His gearing is also highly questionable. Using Spaulders of the Righteous from Botanica N vs Fanblade Pauldrons from Auchenai Crypts HC ( Fanblade are actually easier since AC HC is easy as dirt whereas BoT N is annoying ), but let's say he cares about threat vs extra avoidance. Using two high defense trinkets vs Goblin Rocket Launchers from Engineering, Underbog HC Stamina Trinket or even Shattered Halls N Block Rating Trinket.
Two points: 1. Do Warriors still have to wear "DPS"-items to hold aggro in TBC like in Classic? If yes, their damage mitigation is not so high then assumed. 2. Do you include the passive damage reduction (30 % on health < 35 %) in the overall mitigation? Its much better then shield wall because its passive.
@@TheAntares315returns Even then, I ran kara without a prot in OG TBC and no issues. The only fight it felt like you would truly want a prot pal was KT in TK.
Yea, I didn't even have a prot pally in my raiding guild until SSC when tidewalker murlocs were causing us issues. Before then, we were steamrolling tier 4 content and were doing alright in tier 5 with a 3 warrior set up.
I am looking forward to trying Prot Paladin in TBC when we inevitably get it. Classic has been fun and I enjoy Holy there (don't think I'd like it in Retail) but I tanked for most of my WoW career until I disliked the "active mitigation" design they added in MOP.
Best answer? Adding Stamina to Spell Power so you chunked even as a tank and made aggro easy. Add in a Taunt that did actual damage and scaled with this stamina increase and you had a very strong single and group threat.
Think Druids are the BEST off-tank. Paladins can off tank but it’s only adds mainly. Druids are utility (BRez, innervate, decurse, poison cleanse etc). Paladins take sometime to MT hard hitting mobs while trying to have enough spell dmg.
Agreed. NOt sure why people are over inflating the capability of prot pallys in TBC. They were great on fights like tidewalker for adds and in hyjal.. but a pally still needed CC in heroics if they didn't overgear them.. so aoe tanking wasn't really a thing for a long time in most heroic dungeon runs anyway. Prot warriors took the least damage by a mile and generated more single target threat by quite a bit. Druids brought way more utility and could dps when needed and do well. Pallys had a few niches and were incapable of main tanking anything beyond tier 4 content (give or take a couple bosses).
This is seriously going to depend on the patch. 2.4 really beefed them up to the point where our MT for Sunwell was a prot pally, but early on they were pretty squishy.
I level up my BE pally as a prot and honestly speaking... Too many thing to consider.... Don't forget you have to min max hit chance for both spell and melee... The same problem with shaman...
Even if it wasn't there right off the bat, even warriors had to get hit and expertise (especially with high end bosses parry spam/crushing blow insta deathing tanks). Gearing up tanks in TBC was rough in general. Tier 4 feels bad when you are missing most of your attacks as any tank lol
Prot Paly was definitely the best 10 man tank IMO, can't remember how many Kara's I was MT and solo tanking ZA for bears. Once I was geared, multi pulling Heroic dungeons was an absolute must or you ran out of mana all the time 🤣. I also remember scaring the crap out of pugs when I did it.
I would run heroics with no chest or shoulders, with cloak and helm hidden, you could just be a bare-chested brute smashing through orcs and still be above defense reqs.
@@davidthompson6099 yeah I remember taking a piece off here and there. Mana issues got worse the better the gear you got. 🤣 One thing that always got on my nerves was no overlap for Holy Shield, unlike what warriors had. Because I am in Australia and our internet really sucked back then, the 200-300ms made me get squashed in raids every now and then. 😐
I mean, if you overgeared the content, then yea, a warrior could easily do the same thing, and allow groups to kill bosses much faster while requiring less overall healing output at the same time. Prot pallys lacked tools in TBC (fixed in wrath of course), but were still good. Because of the lack of tools, the skill ceiling was much lower to accomplish basic things like bigger pack tanking. Warriors on the other hand had a massive skill ceiling in TBC (lowered a lot in wrath) and had tools piled upon tools to handle and save almost any situation. They were also capable of almost completely ignoring crushing blows entirely with correct rage management on certain bosses, meaning they can't take spike damage. They also generated far more single target threat (very evident on fights like void walker and gruul where tanks are just competing for aggro basically), which means bosses just straight up died a lot faster. I am not sure why people are pretending like pallys were some kind of tanking god in TBC, but unfortunately they weren't... and if they release pallys with the original avenger shield, then you wont be tanking much of anything 'well' for a while. Remember that the first half of TBC had avenger shield with a minimum distance away from target for a requirement.
@@someone-ji2zb while I agree that Prot Paly lacked in abilities; Avengers shield had a minimum distance, but worse was the cast time 🙄, holy shield lasting 10 secs and having a 10 sec CD was just so stupid, playing with 200ms meant a small window of getting crushed, but the ability to AOE tank well was what made them good in small content, warriors couldn't do that without some serious target switching. Our warrior tanks in top tier stuff couldn't solo ZA for bears fast enough. We weren't a top tier guild, but we cleared everything except Sunwell (guild fell apart before we got too far in), so they weren't scrubs. Warriors were the tank, no doubt and a good warrior would always outperform a paly tank, but I like how Prot Plays had a niche, just wish some bits were fixed, like my above examples and having a proper defensive CD like we got in Wrath.
I enjoy being some kind of support. Even when I play a DPS class I am still looking for talents that help others in some way. I started playing on Endless WoW and I picked a Rogue. Now in a Hemo/Sword Rogue for the damage increase other can get.
@@rumers100 funny you should say that. As soon as I hit 70 and realised no one wanted a Rogue (now a pvp alt) I started feeling the need to cast shadow spells.
@@andreykotovsky from the private servers Ive been too its true . Not because they are the best, but due to the aoe threat. Still the worst tank in TBC
@@RU-vidMyn Please Main Tank Ros for me i wanna see how much u can push in phase 2. Send me an video i will watch 100% (btw link me prog vids not fully geared ones).
@@mzlsx right now on endless wow we have 5 kara groups with 3 pala tanks , 2 of them tanked prince , what is wrong with you ? do you even know what the weakness is from pala tanks in tbc ?
a few points: 1-Aoe tank was hard on Prot warrior cleave, Feral Swipe. You need to constantly change targets to do it effectively. That was one of the reasons CC was so valuable in TBC, so you can limit pulls down to a number of targets the tank can manage without risking healer aggroing. 2-Due to the above, paladins were highly appreciated by hybrid DPS in heroics, as they lacked the CC that made other tanks' lives easier. 3-Prot paladins had fewer bag slots available as they had to carry 2 sets, one full spell power for trash and another with tanking stats for bosses. 4-Unfortunately, the lack of defensive CD gave Prot pallys a propensity to sudden death. Especially when gearing for pre-raid content, as an unfortunate streak of crits/stacked mechanics could happen. 5-In a similar fashion to Prot warriors, Prot pallys needed to take damage to generate resources as overhealing didn't count towards the mana conversion passive. It was not as dramatic tho, but between pulls you would need to drink every now and then. 6-It was hella fun. Prot pallys allowed strange party compositions and had the AoE style that was incorporated into every spec in WotLK.
1. Paladins also needed to tab-target during their AoE pulls. It's less noticeable, sure, but it does happen. 2. This statement doesn't make any real sense.. 3. Paladins didn't need two sets of gear. What we used for trash tanking, we used for boss tanking. The only exception to the rule is a shield as our spell damage gear could double for healing in terms of a single-target tanking scenario (Prince in Karazhan, for example) 4. Paladins are well-equipped in terms of defensive abilities. The main one being Ardent Defender. Gearing for pre-raid content? No one GEARS for pre-raid content outside of the equipment they find along the way. More often than not, ALL tanks are able to receive crits while gearing up for raiding content, as most tanks aren't at the defence cap yet. 5. Incorrect. We don't need to take any damage to generate resources. Sure, Spiritual Attunement is amazing and it's definitely a welcomed sight, but it's not the only means we have of generating mana. Seal and Judgement of Wisdom are marvellous abilities, don't you think? AND Warriors don't rely exclusively on being hit to generate their rage, as the damage they cause generates it, too. 6. Again, this statement doesn't really make sense...
@@swiftcheese4103 A good way of trying to understand something that you didn't is explaining why you think it lacks sense instead of disregarding the subject. Most of what I put there was in the context of TBC normal/heroic dungeons + up to T4 raiding, Kara awarded worse gear then heroics at the beginning of TBC, and some of them were notoriously difficult. 1-There is a difference between required and desired. A warrior who wants to AoE tank more than 3 mobs needs to tab swap, a paly can go without it. An awesome paly will do it. 2-CC DPS was often required for smooth runs Shat Halls, SLabs, Mech, and MgT later on. The statement says that Hybrid DPS, which lacked CC, had a better chance for spots if a Prot Paly was the tank. 3-Again, in the context of dungeons and first raids, not all pieces of gear gave what you need. Hitting the def cap would mean giving up a lot of spell damage, and prot pally was the only real spec that made use of the spell damage plate items available. At the time I had spare equips with spell dmg for trash, and a def capped for bosses. 4-Ardent Defender was unreliable. It could not be activated, and taking a hit while slightly above the 35% threshold could kill you. Gearing up for pre-raid content was required for heroics, but not to survive crits, but to stack stam. 10-12k hp unbuffed was the minimum to be able to run them. 5-Who uses seal/Judgement of wisdom instead of threat generating ones? you are slowing all of your damage dealers unless you have a ret in your group. 6-See 2.
@@nelprincipe 1.) Our AoE threat from Consecration does not cover a Mage's Blizzard on its own. They will, and do, surpass us. I'm not sure where you got that information from. If a Paladin doesn't tab-target through their pull, and a Mage is using AoE, there is a VERY good chance the Paladin will lose aggro since, like I just said, Consecration's threat isn't enough to cover Blizzard. 2.) Technically, depending on the mob type, there's really only Shaman/Priest/Warrior that don't have excessive C.C abilities. I will agree that during TBC, Heroics often ran much smoother with C.C than without but that's the same with any dungeon or raid out there. 3.) Taking a minimum of 200 spell damage into account to begin your heroic/raid tanking, let's assume a few things; a.) You have Spaulders of the Righteous (Best shoulders for a Prot Paladin for several reasons) which have +20 Defence rating and +15 Spell Damage b.) You have a spell damage weapon (Crystalforged Sword is the best one we get for quite some time until rep with Lower City hits Exalted) This has +121 Spell Damage and +11 Shield Block Rating c.) Most tanks will use Felsteel Gloves as it has the best bang for its buck. Enchant +20 Spell Damage on there (Which is superior to +2% Threat for Paladins) AND enchant +40 Spell Damage on your weapon d.) You also have Breastplate of the Righteous (+20 Def/+23 Spell) This gear provides you defence rating AND spell damage and if you'd like, I can list you every piece of gear to prove this to you. 4.) Ardent Defender was reliable as it did what it was supposed to, every time. Using math for this, let's assume our tank has 14,000 health; 36% of that would be 5,040, and our boss is Moroes; his typical damage doesn't surpass 2500 until he's enraged which increases it, but doesn't double the damage. "Later bosses will do more damage, though," Yes, they sure will but by that time, you'd have better gear which usually ensures more health. 5.) MANY tanks use Seal of Wisdom when low on mana. However, I never said anyone uses either of them. I said that we're not completely dependent on taking damage/being healed to generate our mana. 6.) Depending on your definition of the word hybrid in this case, it still doesn't make a lot of sense. Hybrid classes should be able to fulfill at least two roles which has no real bearing on the need for C.C in dungeons, heroics or raids. (Druids = Hybrid / Paladins = Hybrid, for example)
Had more of everything compared to any other class. In PVP that wrecks. If you mistake you heal, if you mistake you become immortal and heal or heartstone, if you can't heal, you damage like crazy.
Idk about prot pally but I tanked with my Druid all the way through TBC. Stacking as much agility as possible with aoe threat and stupid amounts of armor/hp under buffs I was MT for my guild with a prot warrior as a support tank. Didn’t have prot paladins in guild, mostly holy/rets
I tried joining a NA guild on endless and they said get to 70 and get your attainments before we will let you in lmfao people are so stuck up anymore. And like the guild you was talking about they prolly letting pugs go over members just cracks me up I just feel like people have changed since 2005 when the game was great
TBC as prot pally felt very rewarding as you do not start off as an aoe god but the more spell power gear you get the better the class gets. There will be many prot pallys wiping groups in heroics at start of tbc but a geared prot pally will get you through heroic shat halls so fast that the dps will be oom for much of the instance.
@@buttonmashers7133By the sound of it you have never played TBC. Pally tank is awesome at HC shat halls and yes there will be many wipes as people are gearing up to hit there defense rating. Pally do massive damage as aoe tank they have to to keep agro on mobs. Also you will need a very large list if you intend to blacklist all the noobs on tbc launch you do realize there will be millions?
@@buttonmashers7133 Your obviously not playing the same game or never join pugs and yes that is how retail is played today hence why no one likes it and want the classic experience again. but that is not how it was back in the days many was not even aware of the defense cap. Nowadays there is full of toxic players that insist on min max and shit all over people experience just like you are doing now. I was a good tank in TBC but as I am trying to explain there is a learning and gear curve to it. All I was trying to explain to you is that pally tank becomes very rewarding as you get geared up to the point that you are running through SH HC in 5 mins or so.
I'd be curious to know why you'd put a HoT on them (Assuming you don't mean the Paladin putting the HoT on the Hunter) when you expect them to immediately Feign Death; Also, Feign Death is resistible by mobs - Also, why not just taunt from the Hunter instead of them using Feign? The struggle with NOT using Avenger's Shield is that you will be so far behind on threat generation that 1-3 attacks by a DPS will pull aggro.
Paladins can’t still MT properly due to lack of hard taunt and fear immunity wich warriors and druids had , they excelled at trash wich made them super important on places like Hyjal and SSC, and well 5 mans
Only fight in SSC where they mattered was tidewalker for those murlocs, and yea.. hyjal practically required a pally tank. Though I wasn't a huge fan of healing prot pallys in dungeons, even if they 'could' technically hold threat of multiple targets far easier than a warrior or even druid could. At the end of the day, you still want CC for most heroics, unless your group massively outgears them, and that hasn't changed on private servers either. I think a lot of people forgot just how brutal fighting enemies higher level than you truly was in a dungeon format... heroic mobs were no joke.
I really do apreciate the effort you put into your videos but karazhan being problematic without a pally? Sometimes you're simply wrong with what you say, mate.
for awhile our kara group had 2 tanks warrior and bear, we never had any issues. that being said my main was a prot pally, but for that group i was using my holy priest. he's absolutely wrong, prot warrior just requires an ADHD style of play where you constantly tab/devastate/tab/revenge/tab/shield slam and toss in thunder clap on cooldown
when you say prot paladins have the best AoE threat i would like to say that is above 5 targets before that a skilled warrior who is tab targeting can do more threat on all targets. that even hold true in WotLK. however it is much easier for a paladin to AoE tank and the threat a paladin deals is enough to keep agro from DPS purly AoEing.
Prot Warriors scale poorly with threat compared to Druids and Paladins. By the time you get to T6, your Prot Warrior will only be useful on one target at a time.
Most prot warriors never really mastered the play style in TBC. A pro warrior could easily handle that first hallway with a few well placed abilities on the right targets (with cleave and TC spam on the side). Also, you as a prot pally still required some good, hard CC in that place anyway, thanks to those gunners being able to, and frequently disorienting the tank (aggro drop). So at the end of the day, you were still handling 3~ enemies at a time on the packs that a pally should normally provide an advantage for. With that said, you were making money because you overgeared the content, and warriors didn't want to bother gaining carpal tunnel just to clear a heroic that they gained absolutely nothing from. I remember healing the second half of TBC, and warriors became nearly extinct on my server in regards to most heroic tanking. The effort involved for a prot warrior to tank was so high compared to that of a prot pally or bear druid... kind of can't blame them tbh.
I love your video's but come on, not being able to run Karazhan without a Prot Paldin is way too hyperbolic, and listing all the spells any paladin could bring as if they are prot paladin specific is a little disengenous as well. Prot Paladins were the best AOE tanks in TBC, I get it, I remember, it's the reason I clicked on the video to watch it. Let's not go so far over board I don't want to watch the rest of these, I'm waiting on the Enhancement shammy vid!
Tankadins were great early game for mitigation, we basically have a 30% block buff with Holy Shield having the same CD as duration as well as rebout procing as well. Shield block was very good but it had a longer CD than duration and its charges were low for trash perfect for bosses. Prot paladins were gods early on and for trash mobs being uncrushable is very good early on.
@@swiftcheese4103 No. Very little crits in dungeon compared to more the more useful other talents. Then you got the raids situation where your threat is only generated from spamming gbok and you want to get almost uncrushable due to not having access to defensive cooldown. So no reckoning is useless.
@@warpbeast69 "Very little crits" - Are you insane? Until you reach 440 defence, you can receive a critical strike. Dungeons will see to it that you receive critical strikes. AND in RAIDS, it's not about generating threat. Having Reckoning helps with mana regeneration which in turn helps with being able to spam GBoK. AND, in order for a Paladin to become uncrushable, they would sacrifice a LOT of their mana, making their ability to tank almost non-existent for the most part.
@@swiftcheese4103 >sacrifice a LOT of their mana, making their ability to tank almost non-existent for the most part. bro do you even deathbone ? No you don't cause you don't play the game, you just talk about it instead of us who are. Uncrushable means NO CRITS CAUSE DEFENSE CAP ABOVE THE ATTACKER'S SKILL , useless in raids dubious at best in dungeons, what helps with regen are mageblood and nightfin WHICH ARE PLENTY MANA REGEN FOR A HOLY PALADIN IN A SPEED RUNNING GUILD why would it not be sufficient for prot paladin ? You don't know what you're talking about. (And don't come at me with all this crit bullshit on holy because EVERYONE WITH A MILIGRAM OF INTELLECT GOES FULL PLUS HEALING AND DOWNRANKS INSTEAD OF CRIT) Dumbass, go read up properly on prot tanking before making an ass of yourself even more defending reckoning WHICH IS ONLY A MEME Fucking morons
play less prot pally and read more waybackmachine... not once you have said sth like "102,4%". offtank pally can give half a block for a set amount of time, main pally blocks EVERY SINGLE HIT. if you are having mana problems: forget about "cons is aoe threat". HS, RA and tab are your friends.
It is true that both "Redoubt" and "Reckoning" rely on the Paladin not being at the defence cap. However, nearly every tank in Classic WoW is raiding without the Defence cap. 440 is pretty well impossible to achieve without high-end raiding gear. So, as a Paladin, we will NEVER be at the defence cap in Classic and thus, will always be able to benefit from Redoubt and Reckoning. The only tank that had any real form of pulling from afar that would benefit them would be a druid; warriors have their ranged weapon, sure, but it's simple enough to have a Hunter or other ranged dps pull for us if absolutely need be. Paladins are NOT essential for success in raids. I mean, honestly, you're saying that you'd have a hard time running Karazhan without a protection spec'd Paladin, but I mean, we're watching one, and he (you) sucks at maintaining threat. So, it assures me that Paladins are not "essential" by any means. If you, as a tank, sacrifice your level 70 helmet that comes with defence, stamina, etc. for the helmet in Gnomer because of the AoE capabilities, you, sir, are an idiot. Shield Block is equivalent to Holy Shield + Redoubt (And Holy Shield causes threat, too.) Shield Wall is equivalent to Lay on Hands/Divine Shield and Ardent Defender. (Shield Wall lasts for 10-16 seconds, reducing damage taken by 60-75%; I can't recall the EXACT number, but also has a 30-minute cooldown. Lay on Hands can have a 40 minute cooldown, our Divine Shield has about a 5 minute cooldown AND Ardent Defender has NO cooldown and will proc EVERY time you reach below 35% health.) Warriors are NOT better main tanks. All of our Tier-level gearsets have spell damage on them. If you cast Divine Shield, you don't erase your threat; it stays the exact same. The only thing that changes is the mob realizes they can't hurt you, and will attack the player next on the threat table. If you cast Divine Shield, it will remove the stacking debuff. By using a macro, you can immediately cancel it without causing any aggro issues, causing Paladins to be able to technically soak more damage than Warriors. AND Blessing of Protection ONLY works against MELEE mobs - if it is a caster mob, it will still continue to destroy that warrior tank. We have terrific mitigation abilities which I already previously discussed. Again, regarding your argument about us not having defensive cooldowns - refer to 3 paragraphs above. Warriors have NO ranged pulls - so, Paladins come out on top of this one, too. The dazed effect from Avenger's Shield has ZERO inconvenience for any raid group. That's just stupid. Are you completely stupid or are you just messing with me? Paladins needing spell damage has no bearing on our overall Avoidance/Mitigation. The majority of our spell damage comes from our weapon and with our Tier sets providing defensive stats AND spell damage, we're not sacrificing anything. Spell damage based weapons do in fact cause less damage than melee-dps weapons; obviously. If a Paladin EVER has to rely on their white damage to generate threat for them, then they're not tanking, they're dpsing; poorly. Paladins should NEVER use a "Warrior Weapon" enchanted with spell damage as their melee damage MAY be higher, but their threat WILL be drastically reduced, which negates your point. Every class requires a resource for doing their part and tanks are no different. Paladins have to be conscious about their mana usage just as Warriors and Druids need to be aware of their rage generation.
Did you even play in early tbc? Sounds like you only played private servers, no one basically played prot paladin til they where mandatory in Sunwell... we where basically healbots only, rarely seen as retri... and watching you raid Kara the other night makes me wonder how you can defend it so much and acting as if you are the pro tankadin you making yourself sound as 😜. Other than that, quite good video
"So good"? Don't get too excited there, champ. They weren't as good as they would later become in Wrath - Ardent Defender got stupid good. They for one couldn't tank swap and thus jokingly considered mostly the masters of trash. And when you compare them to druids, well...which class you think was responsible/make them add the Sunwell Plateau's debuff. But to end is a positive note, yeah, they got a lot better.
They did have a pseudo taunt that taunted up to 3 mobs off of the mob's current target with a 15s CD. That was inferior to the 8s CD Warriors and Druids had in addition to abilities that fixate targets for several seconds. Taunts could miss and having a backup option was great.
@@zackwoods5077 Actually, Righteous Defense could be held to Taunt's standards. Sure, Righteous Defense has a longer cool down, but Taunt only taunts one mob, while Righteous Defense taunts THREE. What would take Taunt a total of 16 seconds (Assuming it's spec'd for it) Righteous Defense does instantly. Paladins have a few options if their taunt misses; Blessing of Protection (Which GUARANTEES a mob's attention if they are melee based) Hammer of Justice AND we have Lay on Hands that we can use to heal the party member who took aggro and we can't get it back before they get hit.
You don't "generate aggro", you either have aggro or you don't, it's a damn boolean variable on the player's part. You generate THREAT, which is then used to determine who has Aggro.
Av. shield is not talent to pick, waste of point, body pulls are more common among skilled players, so you can go pursuit of justice. As for single target paladin can do it same as others if he has gear for it, since paladin is gearing on block to proc his holy shield doing dmg back and building extra threat apart of conc which is main threat generator. So if you have gear, you can tank anything, with full avoidance and spell power to boost your SoRy, most players not having that kind of gear, gems, i personally had in the end of tbc all possible gear with 1,2k spell power, and with 20k hp + or whatsoever type of tanking.
It is LITERALLY impossible for a Paladin tank to manage 20,000 HP unbuffed. It's also impossible for a Paladin tank to manage 1,200 Spell Damage while maintaining 102.4% uncrushable and 490 defence rating. I-M-P-O-S-S-I-B-L-E. Buuuuuuuut, nice try.
@@buttonmashers7133 Okay, let me rephrase that. Paladins were excellent at aoe threat and picking up adds a distance in certain boss fights. Most raid comps brought a warrior mt, a Druid ot and pally for ot/trash tanking. In some cases the Druid was better than warrior for tanking the boss. There is no situation in tbc raids that a pally tank is better suited to mt than the warrior or Druid. Where they do excel however is tanking trash. There single target threat is literally ass. Combine that with the least survivability In tanking situations of the 3 classes. What does that make? A shitty main tank. Is it possible to do things with a pally tank? Sure as a flex for the healers because they kept the pally up. No guild would willingly take a paladin as a main tank. Honestly it’s probably fine until sunwell but why would you make yourself struggle unnecessarily? Thanks for calling me an idiot, I guess you play paladin. GG enjoy clearing tbc for the first time when it releases.
@@buttonmashers7133 I can tell we are both having a good time. I realize I made a typo so you might not have seen it but I said that Paladins were used a lot for their ranged taunt.. I never said that Paladins could not do it. It’s suboptimal and most guilds want the raid to go at a nice pace and generally it’s easier for a warrior or Druid to tank it. I’ve played in some great guilds met some great pally tanks that we’re capable of doing anything. I do know how particularly difficult statting and mana management is. Especially the earlier on you are in the expansions life cycle. Makes all other aspects of it more difficult. Druids do have bark skin as an opener as well but that’s not how their survivability works. They are great physical tanks with very high dodge, armor and health. Yeah but having a massive health bar made up for a lot. Druid tps is crazy as well. Pretty much every thing you mentioned in comparison to the warrior is a weaker or worse version in how they work and scale in the actual game with how gear is itemized in that expansion. It’s aight man. It all gets kills if people do it right
