What Makes a Good King? How Tywin Lannister Is A Strategic Grandfather 

I'm pretty sure George was the one who recommended Dance for the role

D & D... hate them all you want but they were taking Ws before the final seasons

@@htvtc21 the casting directors chose charles dance. Not d&d. They probably gave the final approval but after the casting directors recommend charles dance, it doesnt require much talent or skill to see that he is the perfect choice for tywins role

@@shawnjames3242 the final decision is the most important decision, your hate for D&D clouds your judgement for something which is so simple to understand. you may as well as just say D&D never ran the show or contributed anything it was just the rest of crew & cast. yall arguments just to go against D&D are so dumb.

Tich Chigorimbo I think what was so infuriating was that they no longer cared about the writing and characters in season 7 & 8. Post-Season 4 wasn’t perfect but they were at least trying. A lot people hate them because they were once good until they couldn’t give a damn anymore. A lot of anger and hate towards them because they once cared and then they don’t. What’s worse was that they stopped caring at the very final season of a series of eight years.

That's one of my favorite feelings, when one of my students gives exactly the answer I was looking for, without me having had to give them any but the tiniest of nudges in the right direction.

That was manipulation

@@miquebts Every interaction you have with another human where you want them to do something, involves manipulation to one degree or another.

@@SRosenberg203 the point is that he fooled the kid and the guy who posted the first comment, he wasn't happy, he was just playing a role to manipulate

He was not giving competent advice. He was gaslighting Tommen into believing he needed to do whatever Tywin said. If Tommen is old enough to physically perform a sex act, he is very close to the age where he will rule in his own right, and Tywin wants him to think he will still have to listen to him. If Tommen doesn't want to listen to Tywin, he can always find people who will be happy to take Tywin out for the chance at royal favor. Edward III basically carried out a coup against his regent, his own mother, at a similar age to Tommen, by finding people who wanted to be in the good graces of the guy who would be ruling the country for the next 50 years. Tywin shoots down all of Tommen's ideas about good qualities, because they are things Tommen can get without him. Tommen can act strong without Tywin, and might take strength to mean "do it myself instead of asking for help like a weakling". Tommen can be holy without him, and striving for holiness means he would listen to religious authorities instead of Tywin. Tommen can be just without Tywin, he can listen to his own conscience and read the laws. What Tywin is aiming for is convincing Tommen that he NEEDS to listen to Tywin, that listening to other people is the most desirable attribute. He says "wisdom" and Tywin spins "wisdom" to mean doing what people who are wiser say. The YESSS is to encourage, via positive reinforcement, Tommen to please Tywin, by acting impressed and validating him when he gives the answer Tywin wants. It is because Tommen finally hit on a quality Tywin could spin to illustrate that he, Tywin, should continue to call the shots, even though he has only come as far as he has thanks to a lot of good luck, and he was getting his ass kicked by a kid fighting his first war, and his golden children did a lot of put the Lannisters in a spotty starting position, and they are relying heavily on the Tyrells for money and manpower, to the extent that an old woman of House Tyrell can talk shit to his face.

But he failed to teach him that not everyone can or should be trusted

@@ColeArmstrongSF well I think he was trying to express that when he shared the story about the just king who was murdered by his own brother

​@@ColeArmstrongSFhe would have succeeded if he did not die

great point

@@tomdanks3427Maybe he died because he didn’t succeed. Tommen took one look at the consequences of his actions (or rather inaction) and realized what was happening was because of the course of events he played a role in, and the weight crushed him.

He says yes that way because he was leading him down that road. Everything was a perfectly orchestrated play. He knew Tommen only had about 5 answers he could legitimately give, with wisdom (the "correct" one) eventually being stumbled upon.

@@Malthizar no

@@Malthizar call me stupid but even after watching this scene years ago I couldn't remember or get the right answer even with Tywin's leading. Either I'm very stupid or Tommen is smarter than you're giving him credit

@@cobaltjay9862 It's a question that is present in nearly every fantasy story, with each writer/character giving their own answer. But it usually comes down to wisdom. Strenght without wisdom is barbarism, good without wisdom is naivete, faith without wisdom is fanaticism. If it's a question you never thought about, I wouldn't call that stupidity. But I do wonder why you never thought about it, because it's a question that is relevant even in our world. What would make a good president?

Aside from the fact that there's no possible way Tommen could've been anything but a fuckin potato, as the product of a brother and sister. One of my cousins is the product of a father and daughter, and I wouldn't trust her to tie her own shoes. She's nice, and she's not an invalid, but I've seen lemmings with more going on upstairs.

Rather it speaks to his own reputation, that Tommen is afraid of this.

@@Gunleaver thats true, never thought of it that way.

Aye

Delivery is key

And his line delivery is very warm. I think Tywin likes kids because he is similarly warm to Arya while she’s under disguise. Kids have no ulterior motives, no guile. He can let his guard down a bit with them.

Well, one of his sons is viewed as a dwarf freak that killed the only person he loved during child birth, his other son swore to be King's Guard so nullifying all chances of continuing the Lannister legacy (and also breaks his life-long vow to his king and commits incest with his sister) and his daughter is a maniacal, manipulative, power-hungry, jealous and emotionally unstable dumpster fire. Can't really blame him when you put yourself in his shoes.

He was brilliant and stern... but fair. He was only cruel to his enemies..

Aside from Tyrion of course... the one thing that he was irrational about his distaste for his own son. It cost him in the end.

cold and cruel..... not likely. the man was exceedingly pragmatic. he made his bones making his family's name respected, and has 2 of the worst psychpaths completely under control. one of the best characters in ASoIAF. the only mistake he made was mistreat Tyrion. no one's perfect after all :3

He did what needed to be done. I wanted him on the throne.

I also find it fascinating that he refers to Robert as "king Robert" and not "your father"

@@evanl8656 that's because he probably knew the true parentage but chose to overlook it because of the scandal it would cause.

@@rykoshuxero he did seem genuinely shocked when cersei told him, but maybe i misunderstood

This shows how little Tywin understands politics. During the Ming Dynasty of China, a famous emperor NEVER went to those councils for decades and the system was running fine.

@@user-nw5te4mo1q and your take away is that a nation runs best when the highest authority is ignorant to what's going on?

It's probably because he is mostly disappointed with his own children and thus rarely shows any positive feelings towards them. Jaime made poor life decisions in his eyes (becoming a "glorified bodyguard", not a true heir to the family), Cersei is blinded with her own arrogance, despite being a smart and capable person ("I don't distrust you because you're a woman, I distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are") and Tyrion, being a dwarf and a witty free-thinker who doesn't give a damn about "living for the family", is definitely not an ideal son in Tywin's eyes.

@@artinaam And yet Tywin was able to recognize that Tyrion is no fool and asked him to serve as hand of the king. Tywin is no fool either. He's able to set aside his disdain when he recognizes good qualities in people.

The Tywin-Aria scenes are my favorite of the whole series. I was so disappointed they weren't in the book :(

@@Em-ih5du Tbh I always thought the move of sending Tyrion to act as hand was a bit more of a cunning political maneuver than just that he trusted his son. What seems more likely to me is that Tywin could predict the unrest that would grow in Kings Landing as the war worsened, and probably wanted to shield himself some from the political backlash that would come with being hand during such bad times. By sending Tyrion, he allows himself to focus on the war, while also using Tyrion as a PR shield to take the peoples ire, as the hand responsible for the cities woes in their eyes.

Lord Twyinn ~ Charles Damce ~ Almost A Perfection Of A Role Almost surreal Indeed Of A finer Lordship Warrior, Gemtleman, Liege, Master, perhaps, someOftheWisest! May Prevail🗡️ ❤️🗡️

Yes, he is basically THE archetype for paternal insight - stern, instructive, critical, strong. Good thought!

And this scene, honestly, is the one where he acts bar none the most grandfatherly in his own way. Besides Arya, Tommen is definitely the character he is nicest to.

@El Lorenzo couldn't have been much fun for Tywin, either. And in the end, he got results out of Jaimie that the maesters did not. I taught my sons to read when they were little. My sons were not dyslexic, but I learned that teaching is a skill set that requires patience.

@El Lorenzo what are you talking about? Maybe from where you are but things are different in America and Western Europe. Girls have all the opportunities to learn how to read and become knowledgeable and educated in any field of their choosing.

@El Lorenzo where are you from?

Yes! Excellent way to not alienate the kid while still being instructive.

@@arcaneprince it’s not supposed to be instructive. But rather manipulative

Ten times better than my school teachers who constantly demean me

Yeah he's wanting to make Tommen enthusiastic so he is more responsive to counsel

@@janosvymer5953 It can be both you know.

where is it said?

@@ChristianSandviknes Thank you!

@@user-ok3xt6mq5g No problem!

Good catch! At 2:25, you can see in the background Tywin covering Tommen's eyes!!

I never caught that!

Wait, who said that?

@@anaionescu8913 ...the guy in the video?

@@anaionescu8913 Jesus you make me worry about humanity

Even as a girl I get that xD

Well, I mean, Jason Isaacs exists, so surely we don't _all_ hate our own voices after hearing Charles Dance.

From Tywins pov I agree with you. Tyrion was the ready made package but he came a bit short so....

@@lastbaratheon8043 lmao

Was

Was*

@@succulentchinesemeals you probably just spoiled it for this guy

Because it is exactly the time and place. Little Joff is the perfect example of failure.

That's power

@@jeffmusyoka1876Thank you for saying this. I noticed and appreciated it immediately.

Drogon : hold my beer 🍺

@@jasonsandhu3760 lmao

I completely agree.

Which is the tragedy of Tywin. With all of his experience and intelligence, he failed in guiding his own family. It was almost as if he took pleasure in seeing all of his children suffer.

That is the irony. Tywin being the refined nobleman and wise tactician was murdered while taking a sh*t.

Quite insightful. I hadn't thought of that.

Unfortunate, but not a wrong move by Tommen. His best advisor was killed and the rest were incompetent

@Alvi Syahri tywin isn't an idiot he knows he's old but there's a world of difference between him dying while tommem is a kid who doesn't have s clue what to do and dying later after imparting as much wisdom and experience as he could tyrion ruined that but then again tywin ruined tyrion so i guess he had it coming

The fuck is orys the 1st

The one statment he failed to make was that «a wise king learns to tell the difference between good advice from bad»

If Tywin and Tommen had lived then he would have definitely built Tommen into the best king there had ever been. I think at this point he had given up on his children so he wanted his legacy to live on through Tommen

Tywin and Tommen could have been the lesser of two evils

Agreed, but he still wanted to accomplish that by manipulating Tommen

@@VVV953 probably lowest of most if not all evils

@@lkaseru I don’t think it really is though, I don’t see Tywin as being evil at all. He’s a intelligent man who’s living in a ruthless world. He doesn’t take joy in killing he just does what he thinks he has to for his family to survive in this game of power. But Tywin would only be more of the same, the same system that has the realm constantly squabbling and fighting over power. Just look what happens when he dies, it creates a immediate power vacuum and everything goes to shit. No one is there to check the family and keep the other powerful families in fear. Change was what the realm really needed and unfortunately true change on a grand scale never comes without bloodshed on a massive scale. As Littlefinger said chaos is a ladder, and through the chaos of the wars for the throne a slightly better system was introduced.

My personal favorite scenes in the whole of GoT ( other than 'Hardhome' ) were the ones he shared with Arya while she was his cup girl at Harrenhall. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-A8Wr-yrAL1c.html

My favorite of Tywin was probably when him, Tyrion and Cersei disguss weddings. Specialy at the end when she would not stop running her mouth, he quickly stands and says:"Not another word of it!" Pauses and continues:"My children.... You disgraced the Lannister name for far too long!"

And in the end it killed him But yes, the Lannister family United would be unstoppable, they are some of the best players of the Game of Thrones bar Varys, little finger and some others

I think also his wife dying whom we are led to believe he loved made him shut down his compassionate side

On the end, the broken relationship with Tyrion was his downfall, his one blindspot.

@Gregor Heisenhorn kinda ironic, really. Seeing how his lack of compassion for Tyrion killed him. Tywin was smart but he didn't understand that the key to excellence is balancing things as need be. He saw compassion destroy his father, so he lost his, instead of limiting it. In the end, that is why he died. He had the most magnificient son he could have wanted but he threw him away.

Oh really? He failed to even find his heir a wife. Jof is Barateon, so what about all this crap about "family"?

...when...when was Tommen smart?

@@svenlauke1190 perhaps he meant tommen was humble, and he honestly could’ve been hella smart/wise wit Margery as his wife and Tywin as his hand adviser. But for sure tommen was young smart.

@@MAui8BLac I mean...he was easily manipulated. thats the opposite of smart for me.

@@svenlauke1190 he did not know how babies are created. And got crazy with teenage hormones. Got a crazy mother guiding him Best of men are brought down by women. He had two cutthroat bitches eating at his head.

@@svenlauke1190 Tommen wasn't especially smart but he was teachable. In time, Tywin would have taught him how to make good decisions without being utterly reliant on other people. Margaery would have been able to manipulate him anyway, but she's very smart herself. The realm would have prospered all the same with her helping Tommen rule.

Cersei fucks up anything she touches. Useful if you need to destroy your enemies, less so if you want to build a kingdom, or raise two children.

Strongly agreed! And Charles Dance was one of the most well-cast actors ever.

Yeah, I can see why one could feel that. But we all know the real reason.

@@Slechy_Lesh Combination of both perhaps 😓 Imagine how he would've been if he lived to season 8? They'd have ruined him too... maybe it's best he died sooner than later

@@thalmoragent9344 probably would have taken rumors of the white Walker threat seriously and sent more lannister and Royal soldiers to the wall rather than do nothing.

@@Roycesraphim1 Exactly. He may have pulled extra strings but either way, he would've likely helped

Funny cos that's what happened. Left a week and impotent king in charge and his legacy was ruined. Tyrion was who he should have looked to. But "dwarves are bastards in their father's eyes".

@@olumideaduloju6409 To be fair, Tyrion wasnt as good as he believed himself to be

@@DM-Oz Still better then his siblings. Cersai is the worse ruler ever besides maybe Baelor the blessed.

@@crazyscotsman9327 Jaime(pos losting hand at least) could had been a good ruler if he cared enough to try, he is not the best, but he knows that but he seemed to be kind of good at understanding the people following him, at least is what it seemed during his PoV as Lord Commander

@@olumideaduloju6409 He wasmt expecting to get capped on the shitter

you can feel that he was really happy that tommen got that lol

“Finally, I got a winner in this family.”

Ah yes, Dancer

Yeah I'm so nice who would want to kill me

@@tommenbaratheon3612 didn't you get killed by lord karlstark . Looked like you

@@michaelflood2622 n o

Tywin's response: Ah but that is where you misunderstand, think carefully; if one's own brother, one's own blood, is capable of thrusting a cold blade into your heart at an opportune moment, then why believe that any servant, or guard, or councillor would be unwilling to do the same. Its not just about watching one's family Tommen, its about being conscientious in every interaction.

@@tommenbaratheon3612 In another life-a German soldier.

Tywin did try, he just died before he could

@@thepredator9002 True.

@@thepredator9002 His Sins finally caught up to him in the end

I don't think so, no offence. He would have meant well, but he would have tried to be a friend to everybody and enemy to no-one. He was just too nice and too soft, the schemes and machinations by nobles at court would have eaten him alive. Tommen would have made a great Maester, but a King...I think the only way he could become competent at that is if he experienced alot of misfortune and hardship and it hardened his character somewhat. Tommen is basically Tytos Lannister all over again.

@@keighlancoe5933 I don't agree with you, but you're entitled to your opinion. Most young children are naive and well meaning. In time Tommen would've wisened up to the way the world is, especially with Tywin and Margaery by his side to guide him and to show him how people really were. Children are not born with common sense. They must be taught and Cersei had little to do with her two younger children because she was doting over Joffrey. Never mistake kindess for weakness. Tommen needed time to grow and learn, but he didn't get it because of self-serving embaciles like Cersei who actually thought they knew what was best for the realm.

Tommen was quiet, polite, boring, but dammit if he wasn’t the Lannister’s last chance for a good king. Especially with Tywin as his teacher. The day would have come where he would have stood up and shown mercy against Tywin’s wishes, and though angry and trying to argue initially, part of Tywin would have been proud.

Tywin was trying to create a "Good King" by his standard of what a "Good King" means, which means a King that furthers the prestige and power of his own House, and puts that over the needs of the individual. Tywin saw that Tommen was malleable, and wanted to shape Tommen's ideology to match his own: Tommen's rule, following Twyin's beliefs, would be Tywin's ultimate legacy.

@Anjelica Snorcket Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to make an indictment of Tywin, I admire him greatly. I was just pointing out that he wasn't trying to create a "Good King" the way Jon Snow might imagine a "Good King" to be, for the sole purpose of best protecting the people. I agree though, that in the long run, that probably would have been the best thing for Westeros as a whole.

This was also why he was having the sex talk right away imo. They needed a Lannister heir.

Tywin legitimately wanted Tommen to be his heir. He was all about ensuing a lasting legacy to his house and with the clock ticking on his life he needed to take the time he had left to mold Tommen (who was a less than ideal material, but at least was more malleable than Joffrey) into a suitable king.

A class main purpose is to fumble and make mistakes. You make mistakes in the class to teach you wrong from right, and thus have experience.

Tywin was ruthless in defense of his family and position but he'd be a damned good person to have as a friend. He was as close to a perfect ruler as there was, he just had one blind spot and that was his own children.He couldn't stop Cersei from poisoning Jamie and he couldn't handle the fact his wife died giving birth to a dwarf.

Tywin knew Tyrion was smart. But he hated him for getting his wife killed during childbirth. So Tywin ruined any chance for Tyrion to have love. For Tywin to admit to himself he was executing a revenge plot against his own son, would've meant dealing with the emotions. As a Westerlander, you repress, repress, repress :D And forget to think of your son as a human being right where it hurts.

Tywin's greatest mistake was to only care about threats coming from the outside of his family, while not caring about what was happening inside his family, being totaly blind about the twins' incestuous relationship and Tyrion. When you think about it, the Starks and Lannisters are complete opposites. While the Lannisters cared only about the outside and projecting their power upon other houses, the Starks were all about the inside, not really caring about the other kingdoms of the realm. Both attitudes proved to be their undoing.

@@Xerxes2005 A shame, especially if you consider just how great both houses were. Instead of cooperating to build the strongest kingdom, they mauled each other to death while the white walkers rose beyond the wall

His mistake was underestimating bonding between Jamie and Tyrion

@@JoshSweetvale Not only because of that. He hated that of all his children the dwarf that got his wife killed was the one that inherited all the family brain.

I really liked the actor for Kevan Lannister. What a wasted opportunity.

They stopped introducing the new characters that were essential to good story telling. Victorian Greyjoy and Quinton Martell for starters. No Arther Cunnington or Old Grif either. The show could have been great

@@dickenstom Could you or anyone tell me why in all seven hells did they decide to not do any of the other storylines and thus butchering the show and all the character arcs (Like Dany's and Jamie's)?

@@misabelrodriguez1163 Bit late for a response but they stopped for the same reason why they compressed the final 2 seasons into 1. They were tired of game of thrones and wanted to move on to big hollywood blockbusters dangled before them. However they screwed the ending so badly that all those offers for movies and other series disappeared pretty much over night. They also ran out of source material and started believing their hype that they could finish the story better / do a better job than the author of the book. And fun fact they only got the job because they got a meeting with GRRM and told him who Jon Snows parents were, something that most fans who read the books had pieced together years ago. But they had connections, so they got to make the show, the first seasons were almost carbon copies of the books, then they ran out of source material and screwed it all up, but not listening to GRRM's input anymore.

That’s a really good catch.

I think so too. Out of all the villains in GOT, he is the one villain who I would’ve seen win in the end. My second pick would be the High Sparrow and the third would be Stannis Baratheon. Agree or disagree, these three men were not as evil or horrible as most people seem to think if you think about it.

The speech of Pycelle at his funeral was awesome in the books.

He was a King in a way since Aerys Targaryen was a Mad Man who was terrible with his judgement and it was Tywin as his advisor that the Seven kingdoms prospered for a time, until Aerys started being a Dick and making Tywin suffer with underhanded tricks

@@Confederate-hj2dc High Sparrow, no. I can't trust anyone who does everything in the name of religion.

@@JnEricsonx maybe he wasn’t as religious as you think and that he was using religion to get the radical faith militant and peasants on his side. We will never know, but other leaders have done it in the past.

Tywin loved Jamie, tolerated Cersei and despised Tyrion (for things he had no control over). He didn’t love his house per se, but he had a mixture of pride and duty (like Stannis). He saw how low his father’s weakness brought his once proud house down, and made it his life’s mission to leave the Lannisters as powerful and influential as they could be, under the established rules of Westeros (initially, the Targarean Dynasty, and afterwards, supposedly setting up his grandchildren as heirs to the new Baratheon line). By most accounts the kingdoms were at their best while he was hand to Aerys, before their falling out. Tywin was unquestionably one of the most effective Hands of all time. Aerys went and ruined it by insulting Tywin’s marriage proposal of Cersei to Rhaegar, and also possibly raping Joanna (Tywin’s wife).

Daddy of the year

Baratheon...?

@@BoundInChains Does the name really matter, as long as he's Tywin's grandson?

@@BoundInChains he was still working on Jaime taking his place as heir to Casterly Rock, but he also wanted a Lannister friendly king on the throne, doesn't matter if his name is Baratheon

@@andyarken7906 Yes, it does, because toTywin the Lannister name meant more than anything else.

There isn't much difference.

"it's all relatively straightforward"

Tywin is definitely a villain wtf he is responsible for some of the most heinous acts of cruelty in recent westerosi history

well maybe he's kind of manipulating Tommen. He basically says "do as your adivsors tell you", and he is his main advisor. So basically, Tywin is making himself a shadow-king, at least until Tommen is more mature

Robert Baratheon was absolutely terrified of Tywin. And for good reason. Tywin can be the most fearsome in westeros.

"The assumption that Tywin rules by fear isn't really true" Bitch he sends a singer that plays a song about a noble house he drowned in their own castle, along-side every servant they had, to scare vassals from uprising. edit: The story of the Rains of Castamere - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LbiSwq07Yvg.html&ab_channel=RedTeamReview

I think one of the main thing about Tywin is that, yes, he knows he's old and he's not immortal and he won't always be there to guide his legacy, so he has to make his descendants good rulers. I don't think his goals are just "manipulate everyone until you die", he's also working long term, for the furthering of the Lannister legacy

Thanks man, that means a lot! I'm still experimenting with video formats, but I have about 50 written analyses and many more ideas which will eventually become videos. Stick around!

Cersei only tried for a day though. She expected Robert to forget Lyanna the moment he saw her, and was pissed when he didn’t

Imagine your husband moaning another woman’s name on your wedding night. Cersei knew the marriage was doomed right then.

@@Mr33500 not at all, cersei's pov in the books explains she "tried" (meaning she didn't cheat) until a party where she evidently saw robert cheat on her with another lady. That's when she started her own cheating.