What makes ALL songs great? 

Give 'The Spacehoppers' some love! facebook.com/thespacehoppersband/

Andy, my man. You are a music philosopher. Something that is much needed in this world. And I'd much rather listen to this than details about chords & theory. There is a human element that seems to be missing so much.

related story about the power going out. I saw Emerson Lake & Powell (not Palmer) in 1986 I think, at the Providence Performing Arts Center in Rhode Island. In the middle of the show, the electricity went down. It took Cozy a few seconds to realize he was the only one playing. But the band left the stage. The power came back on about 20 minutes later, the band came out and Greg Lake said, "Right, we were on bar 82" and he counted off and the band started back up in the middle of the measure in the middle of the song and continued playing it until the end. I thought that was a very Emerson Lake and (Powell) kind of thing to do.

I always say that the most important people in band, by far, are the drummer and the singer, everybody else could be replaced. Look at all the great bands (subjective). They have great drummers and great singers.

So it's more the symbolic, naritive, archetypal, contextual, cultural, deeper meaning, resonance that makes a song great.😆 Perhaps we could all agree that the music theory aspects are most effective when they speak to us in that deeper way cominbined with the lyrics, or speak of that which words sometimes cannot say?

I'm a simple man I guess. To me the way it sounds is what matters. I could even do without lyrics. Tracks by Niagara, Cymande or Hawkwind for example I really like.. Lyrics come second for me. But yes sometimes the lyrics will add an extra layer of greatness. Bohemian Rhapsody, Stairway To Heaven or Dylan songs. Bottom line for me is there are different types of greatness. Great music don't need lyrics and great lyrics don't need epic music.

I think it's the tension between the melody, the singing line, and the comping, the chords ... and the groove has to counter phrase the melody (in certain moments) ... but in small portions, not all the time, and this is quoting Sting /Rick Beato : after for bars something new gotta happen ... 😄 and than you gotta forget everything you learned and just 'Let it Be ' ...😁😊 ... I hope your effort payed off ....

You may have a small channel Andy but we all know size doesn’t matter 😉

Andy and Rick pairing up ? ! A late Xmas present for us all

You said "second part of my talk" at 21:58 and the vid is 44 min. Drummer's precision!

Bravo Andy. I had this same discussion with a friend. As a non musician i think sometimes musicians like Rick overstate the technical flair that musicians can hear but the rest of us do not.

If Rick ever sees this, I think you pitched it just about right. Not too desperate, not too nonchalant. Nailed it.

Brilliant analysis, Andy. Very insightful. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Beato's still right.

I've recently discovered your channel and you have a depth of knowledge about music that, personally, is more raw and human than Rick's channel. You may not know it, but your views on the history of music is amazing. I've watched so many of hid vids, but you're videos are better. You are a raconteur par excellence.

The shameless and desperate pleading was very good. Beato may have his people look at your request, but your channel deserves many more subs.

I loved this video. You were in the flow. It was very enjoyable hearing you talk about this subject. It makes me want to listen to the songs and artists with new ears.

Mmmh... Your theory about the lyrics being what makes a song great : I'm not impressed, as Peterson is used to say... I'm french and for at least the first half of my life, I listened to english or american songs I loved without understanding one single word, or very few. And now that I understand or I can read the lyrics, I wouldn't say they're paramount. But there are songs you love or like essentially because of the lyrics. Dancing fool ( Zappa ) or No head, no backstage pass ( Parliament if I remember well ) are examples of that.

Thank you for this video Andy. You've made me realize why I've been in a creative wasteland. I lost track of the fact that great music has to SAY something. I've been attempting to compose creative songs that don't actually SAY anything. It's like trying to write an engaging story by using uncommon words and really creative fonts!

Your story about We Are the Champions, what it's about, and THEN how the pitch and chord structures serve what it's about... breathtaking

A true music philosopher and comedian. 😂 Love how comfortable you take the piss outta anything and everything including yourself. Love it. Thank you for plodding on!!!

btw, you will always be more entertaining than RB ...

Ricks my friend. I’ll send him the link now!

Great episode, Andy. Loved your insight, as I've often wondered about these topics myself.

I like your channel more than Rick's, and I really like Rick's channel

And “here comes the flood”…..of favorite songs. But Andy….. The best song is X What about Cortez the Killer. What about One more Red Nightmare or Waka Jawaka / The inner mounting flame….. Why you never talk Lee Ritneour, or the Beatles?

The band plays well because of some level of talent and chemistry. You can't just play fast you need to play in the chemistry of others. Achilles Last sta was not just fast. It is played fast in-sync with the other members of Led Zeppelin.

I thought that what made songs great was Herb Alpert.

Great story? Or great song? Sitting on a cornflake Waiting for the van to come Corporation tee-shirt, stupid bloody Tuesday Man, you've been a naughty boy, you let your face grow long

You didn't take the Bbsus4/Ab, or Bm7/add11 into consideration

You have to be a musician to understand Rick's vernacular, unfortunately.

6:16 It's not what it's about. Songs can still be great even if they're sung in a language one doesn't understand. Frans Gall for example

All the great songs were written in the first five to seven years of a musicians career ...they all blew their cookies in the beginning .... with the exception of Prince, Zappa, Pete Townshend, Sir Elton ... ok , this thesis is a little shaky

Once you get bazillion subscribers, trust me, thats when he will have you on.

Happy new year Go Andy !! !..here's a song..what do you do with a drunkin sailor. ER..LY IN THE MORNING...lol.....I enjoy your bits Andy

Songs are temporally displaced conversations?

Lol. I agree, the most important element is what the song is about. You remind us that music appreciation is a skill, and that we should be careful about being dismissive. My greatest song is Amazing Grace.

There's a lot in common belief-wise between Andy and Rick Beato. But not sure of this particular debate is his best approach. Because if Andy truly believes that the popularity and strength of a piece music is 100% some hook or idea, that could've been performed by anyone? And zero to do with execution? I think there's a sandwich sadly fallen from the picnic basket. Maybe it can be found laying on the path someday, Love the channel anyway 🙂.

If you see the Buddha on the road…sick a seagull on him

I'm actually assisting an author with an upcoming book that will attempt to answer this question with actual evidence based observations and patterns that appear in songwriting. It's called "SongMatrix: How Songwriting Really Works" by Wayne Chase. It'll have insights that not even popular Berkley courses teach because a lot of the suggestions within the book will be geared for writing timeless masterpieces and not disposable "hits" that almost every other songwriting school or "brand" attempts to teach based on opinion rather than measurable fact.

Do you want to get Rick on your channel?? Make a follow up video called "What makes Rick Beoto Great???"

Groveling becomes you.

Love Rick's channel too!! Been watching him for years!!!

And the Cmaj9add4add6(b13)(b5)

I am a subscriber to both Rick and Andy's channels and enjoy both of them. That does not mean I agree completely with either of them all the time. I am not sure how Rick would actually go on the topic of what makes ALL songs great, he has done several videos on what makes specific well known songs great. In most cases, he goes into the artistry used in playing the various parts of the song, and the efforts used in tying all those parts together. You first point about if something is worth doing it is worth doing it badly, it probably closer to the point, as regards to popularity of a piece of music. I suspect that the main point is that a great song has a really memorable hook -- and this can mean a memorable part in many different types of components - melodic fragments, rhythms, lyrical turns of phrase. I suspect lyrical hooks are the most important for most people. Consider Louie, Louie. It is hard to imagine a commercial song with poorer recording tech, and the musical performance is on the level of a mediocre garage band. But, the combination of the basic rhythm, the story in the lyrics, and the dynamic structure of the song combined to make a song that stayed near the top of the charts for seemingly forever.

One of you're best Andy. Looking forward to hearing you wax lyrical about the songs.

It’s all relevant, Andy, including talking to the imaginary guy across the room. In fact, this will probably lead to there being an actual guy across the room.

Wow! Cried laughing. Hilarious, Andy. I was just thinking how great it would be for you and Rick to chat. I have some ideas for your channel. Get in touch with me and maybe we can talk. You're channel is great, this video was really fun, I think you're on to something here. Really love ya, and Rick too.

Andy Edwards....Do you have "Perfect Pitch"?. I have listened to 3 of your romps through the Zeitgeist of Music...Jazz as the root... Dancing as the original activity... Virtuosity as too many currants in the Garibaldi biscuit..!!!? Obviously I have borrowed your ball and run off with it.... Anyway you sing Champions in its correct key. Very enjoyable....THANK YOU. AH

Absolutely hilarious ! Go Andy, but stay here. I'll name drop you on Ricks channel. I'm sure all other regulars will as well.

Very interesting. I love a good song as much as the next guy, But I mostly listen to instrumentals. “So what” is in my all time top ten. I see this style as a form of communication as much as a song. Very interesting concept of being lyrically blind. I think I’ve got a lot that right now. You are very inspirational Andy. I think I’ll listen to a Bob Dylan song now. I’ll try to figure out what all the hubbub is about him. Thanks Andy

And what about Trevor Horn?

Andy!! I love your content! The reason Rick Beato wouldn't have this moment in a video of his is simply because he spends a great deal of planning his content in advance. He's mentioned this in one of his videos (I think, if I recall correctly), and you can tell he spends time thinking about what he's going to say and what he wants to convey through the editing of each video, as well. I am a HUGE fan or Rick Beato, and I just can't say anything bad about the guy because of how much I appreciate him and his way of making RU-vid videos. I love how you, on the other hand, have this more casual and spontaneous style in your videos. Now, Rick Beato does this during his live streams, so let's not forget where Rick shines in his own spontaneity! But, ultimately, I would absolutely LOVE to see Andy and Rick collaborate on a video. It could be a fun self-referential video about each artist's channel and whose channel is better (for kicks, not for real of course!), or it could be an interesting video about the depth of specific songs from the progressive rock/jazz fusion era. You guys could also have a fun conversation about the entire notion of "Top 10 Rock Guitar Shredders" or any "Top 10...." videos and what it is about these videos that make viewers gravitate towards this theme. I personally think there is something about a top 10 or top 20 ranking that reels people in.... Rankings can be fun, so it's simply about how we listen to music and why we think one composition is superior to another. Ah, music..... I love you too much to express in words.

Got the point but still not the title... Should be "What makes ALL great songs great" shouldn't it? (Cause all songs aren't great unfortunately....)

Lester Young , the great tenor sax player with Basie and Billie Holliday, would always ask to hear the lyrics of a song before he’d play it. As one of Charlie Parker’s inspirations, it’s likely that Bird and in turn, Miles took the same approach.

Rick DOES need you on his channel

A small voice in the wilderness here Andy, but your little channel has quickly joined Rick's and Fil's ('Wings of Pegasus') as among my favourite RU-vid channels made by music lovers who also just happen to be accomplished musicians. Your plaintive epistle will no doubt grab Rick's attention (yes, I know it's all just a bit of fun), and your invitation is sure to follow...

Just watched your video Andy! You made me burn 🔥 my supper!! Otherwise it was a good show.

Andy .. the Black country Beato

Wonderful Spacehoppers? Did they cover Julien Cope songs? 🙂

That's funny. Zappa's lyrics were the first I ever listened to apart from Springsteen haha

Rick is trying to make a living to support his young family. Peak Beato was a great channel though. Even my late dad liked him!

Happy New Year! Andy on Rick Beato in 2023

I love songs about seagull attacks

Wow! Agree 100% with "lyric blindness" and Joni Mitchell!! I had the exact same experience!

In my view, what makes a song great is a combination of a great theme (lyrics), great melodies, great harmony, great rhythm, great production, great aesthetics, great playing.

both of my favorite channels on the same episode? No way. Too good to be true.

YES YES YES "Friends will be friends" = I was singing this LOUD AND PROUD, semi lucid, as a young lad, growing up in Munich, walking home at 1am, downtown, the year was 1992-ish YOU ARE 100% CORRECT LOVE YOU ANDY LOVE YOU RICK!

You could do a spot on “Virgin Rock” and they will love you. She gets half million views and I told her about you and she said she wants you as a guest. In the words of the Pink Fairies “ Do It !”

I love your spiritual take on music. It's the mojo the song brings you! Btw, Queen are one of my favourite

All people attach to the Voice and the Beat.......

intellect + emotion ?

The power off and the drummer keeps going happened to me once. In our case the drummer hit the RCD with his stick and the whole Venue went off! Including the disco. It was a gig in aid of a charity. We were in the middle of Don’t Look Back in Anger and the drummer kept going while the crowd sang along and the organisers desperately tried to get the power back on. Which they did about 2 minutes later😊

Pat Finnerty, known for the 'What makes this song stink' series made "Beato" a casual, knowing interjection when he catches himself talking chords. What's your move? But yes i fully agree with you that it's not the chords or the production!

I think this video is one of your best! The breadth and depth of subject matter you cover and the entertainment you provide is INCREDIBLE! You’re the best person on social media.

This is fantastic. I am a teacher and what Andy shows here is an marvelous example of how a really good teacher can deliver a the essence of a big chunk of quite complicated theory with simple and entertaining examples. Beato may be good at teaching but Andy is a god of teaching.

Andy, you are a brilliant lovely man!

Andy Edwards - My favorite channel, most videos on You Tube are predictable and by extension a waste of time.

Thank you so much for putting out these videos. As a drummer and songwriter, I really value for philosophical perspective on things. Bravo!

Hello Mr. Edwards, are you for real ? You must be a strange kind of clone - I watched some of your 5/10/20 loved/ignored/hated albums and I was completely baffled. Our taste as well as 80 to 90 % of the Albums you ranked are the same that I have in my collection. Only difference I am a little older than you and the evolution of my taste was quite different. And now just mentioning Jon Hisemann and Barbara Thompson - respect Sir.

Interesting....but I do not agree... We Will Rock You is just a shouting song. It is not a great song. I rarely share taste with Rick. But I think he is right on his analyzing parts....

I'm looking forward to Rick's livestream this afternoon with his response. 😄

I think this thesis is spot on for a lot or most music but not all. I think people could hear that So what? was great without knowing the title. That aside I don't think abject pleading and grovelling to Rick Beato is very edifying, English Aesthetic or no English Aesthetic.

Yes something that you can identify with. But also, there is something in a riff lets say, that you immediately get with somehow. " 7 Nation Army" for example. So there's a musical property present also(not verbal) that you can get with.

On the topic, wasn't Byrd himself criticised for liking Country music to which he (reportedly) said "Listen to the lyrics". I think I read that in Miles Davis' biography some 20, 25 years ago. Not sure.

Ultimately it is all about the chorus - the bit where the audience to get to be directly involved in the music. The strength of the chorus depends on how the melodic phrase interacts with the harmony and the rhythmic pulse.

What's wrong with 6/9 chords? I love 6/9 chords .Quartal harmony is sublime, imo. Oh, and while I'm at it, where would Zoot Allures be without 6/9 chords? Answer me that one. Smart ass.😘

You're great, Beato should definitely have you on (or vice versa). One gripe, you describe all these great songs but no clips to accompany? Most are obscure. Thanks for all the great content

I listened to The Raven that refused to sing album you mentioned first i heard a Rush lift then comfortably numb lift then he lifts jeff beck and that was the final straw….i hope he did acknowledgements

Thanks Andy for your more realistic take on what makes songs great, keep it up. Thoroughly entertaining and educating as well. I love songs I look forward to your favourite songs video. Stay well.

Well, quite. And that's why Rick has never discussed The Scaffold's Lily the Pink - especially Queen's cover of it.

'We are the champions' is 'about' gloating, Andy - and it's stadium stuff from a band that started out as proggy - not great. 'Close to the edge' is not about nothing; to me, it's about making music as beautiful and interesting as possible.

A bit late to this one... but while I think you are fundamentally right, I think Beato is perhaps talking about something a little different. When he asks "what makes this song great?" I think he's talking about a recording, a recording that's been released as a song that has been written, then arranged, then recorded, mixed, and mastered to become a finished record. A couple of examples might be Every Breath You Take, or A Day in the Life. I'm not sure anyone is thinking about what these songs are about when they are initially being caught up in them. We may eventually ask the question, but initially it's more about the impact of the recording. When we first heard them we were captivated by the song, the instrumentation, the vocal delivery, etc.. As time went on since there was meaning under the covers, they became more interesting. But I really think it's the whole package that makes it great. Another example might be Take It Easy as recorded by the Eagles, mostly written by Jackson Browne. The Eagles and Jackson Browne both recorded the song, but most would say the Eagles version is the GREAT version... same song! Rick Beato is perhaps thinking about more than just the melody and the lyrics. BTW, I think We Are the Champions is fine at a football game, but other than that it wouldn't make my top 1000 list regardless of how it's recorded. Bohemian Rhapsody on the other hand is a GREAT song.

Being Sarky is a British term for being Sarky.............Classic...........I wonder if Ricky B will respond?

Sorry for spamming the comment section but I was a bit lyric blind myself until I heard Amy Winehouse on "I'm no good" and "Back to black". Sheesus effin Chroist that hit me right where it felt.

Figured you must know him. You both are very interesting and educational. Still of the educational system, but more also. Though more doesnt make money now does it?

Frank Zappa is a master story teller using both written and oral traditions. “Montana”, a delicious deadpan lampoon of the American Dream in the form of the Romantic Cowboy and the Business Tycoon. The “Don’t Eat the Yellow Snow” suite is a brilliant surrealist adolescent male dream sequence; “I dreamed I was an Eskimo... good morning your highness”. Story telling and music are as old as time.

"I woke up this morning ... and got my self a bottle of beer" that's another story .... All your theory about lyrics makes sense when you understand the language, but those songs also connected to Chinese, Russian, German people who hardly understood English in the 70s and 80s ....

Still wearing the Christmas jumper then. 12 night tonight remember. Fun vid BTW.

Interesting. As a painter the title can set an emotional state the line/ melody, color/ harmony and structure/ rhythm fulfill. Do love Joni and one of the few I losten to words. Betty Carter more my cup of tea. Btw. Zappa is musical surrealism. Not really Modern e cept in therapy while Modern art is based on Scientific concepts, not adolescent academic one. And Soul of course. Good day to ya.

I'm coming at this as a non-musician. I can only go by what my ears tell me. I can't agree with you, if I'm hearing you correctly, that the lyrics or the content of a song make a song great. Lyrics or content may make a song great. Think of Dylan's songs or Lennon's songs, etc. The music of a song may make it great. Beethoven's 5th Symphony for example. But chord progressions and production value can make a song great, too. Think about Yes' "Roundabout". The lyrics are pretty nonsensical, but the way the song is sung and the way the music projects the song (the chords, the drumming, the guitar work, the interaction of the instruments) make the song great. It's not about any message in the lyrics or "what the song is about". IMHO Every song is different. What makes a particular song great is different for different songs. Does the content of "Stairway to Heaven" make it great? I would argue that it doesn't. I think that's what Rick would say, as well. Still, interesting discussion.... Been kinda sick over the holidays myself. Glad you're feeling better!