What Makes Germany's BRAND NEW High Speed Train Its BEST? DB's ICE 3neo! 

Absolutely agree, especially since type f sockets guarantee the ability to charge laptops.

Also security concerns as well, the firmware in a shocking number of public USB chargers can be hijacked to install a payload on a device plugged into it.

Fast charging is stupid and only destroys batteries. Never use it.

@@swunt10Nuance, ever heard of it? There's no need to fast charge every night, that does have an impact on battery life (because you do it hundreds to thousands of times over the life of a phone), but on a train is definitely one of the situations where it might come in handy.

Fully agree with that. I remember once charging my phone on an airline USB socket. It took the entire flight to charge it.

I noticed that, too, when using the GPS speed monitor app on my iPhone. I couldn't get any GPS signal on ICE 3 but could on ICE 4.

8:20

You mean the ICE L? I guess that technically isn't an ICE but DB is branding it as such.

​@@mstrmren they're starting to think about the next gen of the ICE 3's, with some level boarding too, though the ICE L will be interesting

The ICE 5 is in planning. While the next ICE 3 would probably be just the next Velaro from Siemens (like the other ICE 3s, though you could argue that the original ICE 3 isn't a Velaro because Velaro was based off of that exact train), the ICE 5 is supposed to actually be a new train. There's early planning with Siemens and Alstom already I think. Sadly, for some reason, partial double decker trains are not something DB aims to have, even though it would massively increase their capacity without actually building more infrastructure. But I could see the problem in the train stations when even more people have to leave the trains, so that might be an argument against it...

@@jan-lukas Yes, it's really bad if we have so many passengers disembarking at the same time then jousting for the passing room and evading the obstacles on the platforms and staircases, especially at the terminal stations such as Munich and Frankfurt.

​@@jan-lukas From a passengeer POV, double deckers are a massive downgrade. Luggage storage would be a way bigger topic and to realise relevant gains in capacity, they would have to go for a way more cramped layout. After having a trip in the double decker TGV (as well as IC 2 and regional trains), I'm glad that this is not on the table.

Yeah. Also for the future, I think the new ICE-L's will also feature bike storage but those are also limited to 230km/h and mainly slower routes like Hamburg-Berlin, Hamburg-Cologne, and some international services like the one to Vienna, Amsterdam-Berlin, and long term likely to Copenhagen via the Fehmarn tunnel when that and the Vogelflug Neubaustrecke is completed.

The ICE T is not allowed on the highspeed track Frankfurt-cologne

@@MrEvilLP Only ICE 3, 3M, and 3neo are certified to operate on Frankfurt Flughafen-Cologne segment due to the steeper grades. When ICE 3 were temporarily withdrawn from the service due to the cracked axles, Deutsche Bahn regretted its decision for steeper grades since no other trains are allowed to travel on that segment.

@@InTeCredo The ICE 4/412 is also certified to operate there :)

On the LGV they show just how much quieter, smoother and comfortable they are compared to TGVs

And one more thing, I'm fairly certain the new interior design is not meant to be retrofitted to already built units of any ICE type, at least not until their first grand overhaul is scheduled. For the ICE3neo, that wont be for the next 8 to 10 years. They stated that the 17th train at the end of the year will receive it, i haven't seen anything about retrofitting the until then existing 16 units...

In the long run only 300km/h trains (ICE 3 and later 5) are supposed to run there

And frequent technical disruptions, namely the RE München-Nürnberg-Express with Škoda double-levelled trainsets.

thanks for mentioning that. The fact that the exponential rise in energy consumption between 250 vs. 300+kph is being taken into consideration by DB is ignored by "more is more" train nerds : ) P. S. Watching lots of EN reviews of rail journeys in DE I get the feeling that its a) fashionable to crap on DB, it's delays while ignoring what volume and variety of users the system has to deal with and the problems and complexities that arise. b) comparing apples with oranges, i.e. praising HSR systems with much less usage that were built twenty yrs ago, like Spain with a network that has delivered high volume services within the past hundred years or praising Copenhagen Metro (built 2000s onwards) and crapping on London underground while ignoring what complexities arise from having had such infrastructure for more that a century earlier. c) and finally, folks not from DE tend to project this "but you're the Germans where everything MUST be perfect/on time/efficient" resulting in disappointments being felt three times harder because of the unrealistic expectations. And I'm not defending opportunities missed by nat governments in the past two decades to improve the grid but show me a country of similar size with network comparable in age, complexity and bandwidth on all levels down to local transport... you get where I'm going with this : )

​@@velotillGermany has less rail per person than the USA btw... Something is definitely off there

@@jan-lukas Not sure what you are comparing here. The US has only 2000km of electrified rail, while Germany has over 20000km. Even if you count all the old rail lines, that are maybe used once a week in the US, Germany's railroad grid is 5 times denser than the US. Germany has 3 times more passenger kilometers with 1/4 of the population, so an average German travels 12 times further by train than an American. The problem with the German rail system is that since the privatization in the 90ies, the investments into the grid were basically stopped, apart from some high prestige projects, like the few 300km/h lines, or Stuttgart 21. France build separate high speed lines for it's TGV, while in Germany the HSR has to share lines with local lines and transport. The grid is just at peak usage in many places. Like the Hohenzollern bridge in Cologne, where every train that has to go to Cologne main station automatically gets a nice 10 minute delay.

​@@velotillGermany might be compared to continental France, nearly 2/3 of its size with nearly 20 million more people and a better economy and GDP. TGV passengers and ICE passengers are about the same in both countries. I think the "energy saving" is too much of an easy answer considering that : - domestic flights still exist - DB trains run at 320km in France - Germany has been very ambitious and proactive in remodelling its energy production industry (abandonning down nuclear power and installing thousands of wind turbines) - Double deck trains are a good way to limit traffic. My guess is that Germany dicided and managed since the 80s to play smart with its old grid but this optimistic strategy reached limitations that technical innovations can't remedy. Also surely that long distance trips (>500km) are much less needed in Germany and average ICE trips probably way shorter than in France (to and from Paris direct trips are a regular necessity for most French citizens). Looks like (numerous) other reasons are not publicly put on the table... Many in Europe say that France is very protective of its SNCF interests, it seems that Germany is even more (maybe indirectly) protective of the DB interests : international competitition is not promoted on the domestic market...

The velaro from Siemens is it

They aren’t the same

The two trains have different goals: ICE 4 aims for efficiency and capacity (that's why it's only 250-265km/h fast), while the ICE 3 doesn't have quite as many seats and is less efficient, but is much faster at up to 300km/h in Germany and 320km/h in France

Basel SBB is operated by DB and not SSB (I think)

@@mcMineoc (facepalm) ofc it´s operated by DB (as the Name Basel SBB already suggests)

Traveltime padding consisting of driving slower than the speedlimit is observed, enabling the train to catch up if late, but slowing down trips.

@@Loanshark753 As the train is not driving with maximum speed, it can compensate some delay. However, lately in Germany the delays are to big for compensation. The large number of trains share the rail network using a complicated time schedule which is sensitive to small disturbances. There are also many construction sites because the netwqrk has been neglected for 20 years.

@@Loanshark753Think my country's subway/metro also used to practice such timetable padding back when trains used fixed-block ATC signalling, in case of delays e.g. doors left open for longer @ a station due to more people boarding last min, or if trains have to be manually braked when entering stations during rain (because the ATC wasn't advanced enough to adapt to the more slippery rails when raining). Now that we've upgraded to CBTC moving block signalling, its smart enough to adjust trains' braking accordingly when raining, & doors are also programmed to auto-close at stations at fixed time stamps on the train's timetable, that padding has been removed & trains now go full speed in-between stations (unless there's another train nearby). Looks like padding has been instead added to trains' dwell times @ stations instead though, with older trains that brake slower at stations leaving their doors open for shorter durations than newer trains that brake faster. I guess if its raining & trains brake slower as a result, the doors are also opened for a shorter duration bef closing, but otherwise, if its not raining & the train brakes faster into stations, it now seems that trains leave their doors open for longer as compared to bef the signalling upgrade

the 408 has new reservation indicators, a prm lift, and a slightly different etcs system. 408 didn't have an major exterior upgrade over the 407 because the 408 were needed for Brussels and Amsterdam services.

@@itmkoeln thank you! was trying to look for it on the internet and failed

@@AdmiralMidway Additionally, it features dedicated room for (8) bicycles, more space for luggage, windows that lets mobile data through, more and better visible (notice the thicker black border) doors, tablet holders and outlets on every seat (including 2. class) and a fancy new lighting system (if you're into that) that adapts to the time of day (like the ICE 4).

@@Guy-Zero cant wait to be on one some day!

30 t less weight and the same seat capacity + Space for bikes.

I totally agree. It can also be complicated if the ICE3neo is replaced by an older model without bike racks on a short notice. This led to a delay of 20 mins once because the cyclists refused to leave the train and had to be removed by security.

Yeah the ice 4 isn‘t that well liked and I‘m glad they went back to the roots and focus on the ice 3 design. I like the wooden interior, comfortable seats and the max speed of up to 300km/h unlike the slow 265km/h ice 4

USB doesnt have to and most likely wont replace the EU power sockets, its supposed to be an added feature. Same as you can see with modern power sockets for your home, which offer the USB in the corners of the power socket enclosure for example.

If you act according to all rules you need a filming permit, but most people don't care

From the outside, yes. You can barely tell them apart. On the inside, it’s quite an upgrade.

I can gladly assure you that this ICE3neo is replacing the old stock in the end of the year as tests in Belgien and Netherlands are performed since a while.

I would prefer riding ICE instead of Thalys due to the shockingly cramped interior in Thalys.

@@InTeCredo Thalys is a joke. No luggage space and seats are very cramped

@@InTeCredo I too prefer riding ICE to Thalys but because I travel with a disabled person delays and breakdowns are a problem. I am glad that the international fleet is being replaced.

I also had to do this Maybe we were at the same train

Dec 2022

Cause then you need locomotives again and can't use powercase as they do in the newer ICE trains.

​@@Sotha42only half of the cars are powered anyways, the other half you both be double decker and have level boarding...

They won’t build dedicated express tracks in the cities sharing tracks with local trains is a bad idea.

​@@qjtvaddictit's not "they", the DB. It's politicians and NIMBYs. When what feels like half of your government is sponsored by the car lobby over and over again then you won't get reliable trains, and also every stupid person living remotely close to anything that's being built can go to court over the issue...

Don’t ask DB, ask the politicians who refused to invest in rail infrastructure for decades.

Why should it be one?

@@lucas.9718 because you can potentially read out the data from every device that's connected to it.

Yeah, there's a reason why we don't have USB plugs in people's homes, not directly at least

@@TheKartoffel101 yeah I get that one but I always thought they are just electrically powered and can't send or receive data. But USB isn't exactly what I do for a living so I might be wrong.

@@jan-lukas it's the same as wifi. It's safe as long as you know and trust the people who are using it.

December 2022

its a nickname form train nerds because of the high slopes on the line only a few trainsets are allowed on it

It has 4% grades and curve radii of only 3400m, both the absolute maximum/minimum allowed, it's the steepest HSR line in the world afaik. Anything else would've required significantly more tunnels and if you can save on those you usually win. When possible, grades that are less steep are used to ensure all ICE sets can use the line (ICE 1 and 2 are not allowed or able to go on this line), sometimes even freight traffic during the night is allowed.

I think raising the platforms would require the Regional (RE and RB), which are commonly low floored trains (at least in NRW), to have a higher door, since most platforms are roughly at height for those doors.

@@zephyros256 It could be a problem if there is a platform change yes, but usually there are dedicated platforms designed for intercity trains. They are not as high as the floor of those trains though because some regional trains with higher floors (for example some double decker dostos) stop on them to. I dont know if that is the actual reason though. It seems like the actual one is that the defined max height of a platform here is 960mm which is too low to be level with ICEs floor height. Ive had some experiences of Bombardier Talent 2 stopping on ICE platforms and you needed to step up and out of the train while the other platforms are level with the Talent 2s floor. I also got into dostos on those platforms and its closer to their floor height than the normal, lower, regional train platforms The whole platform thing is something we need to fix asap. Its crazy that our upper limit in allowed platform height isnt even high enough to ensure level boarding on ICE trains. Those platforms should get raised. ICEs can still have retractable stepping aids in case there is a platform change.

@@Guy-Zero This is not entirely correct. 76cm is a standard platform height even for regional trains in many parts of Germany (there are a few different platform heights in use for regional trains depending on the region of Germany, which admittedly sucks). And there are loads of stations where regional trains and intercity trains use the same platform. Separate high-level platforms for intercity trains is impossible, a majority of large city stations have a shortage of platforms already and not being able to use even 2 of them would mean regional services would have to be cut down significantly because of missing capacity. And in many stations the ICEs use way more than 2 platforms. This is also the reason why there exists no ICE to Britain via the Eurotunnel, because the passport checks would have to happen at the train station and the platform would have to be separated from the rest of the station, which is just not possible in Cologne, Frankfurt, etc. because of missing capacity. Raising the platforms to ICE floor height (125cm) would make the platform unusable for all other trains, which would mean unacceptable capacity loss in already overcrowded stations. It's sad but it's reality.

@@lukasmaier8247 I only spoke from my experience. The train station I use nearly daily does it like that. Platforms 2+3 are higher and served by ICE, IC and RE services with dostos. Sometimes some RB lines with Talent 2s stop on those too which results in the platform being higher than the floor height of that train. Well, I more often experience misaligned heights than level boarding since I commute from a town to the city with the aforementioned platforms for intercity trains. Germany does have a lot of main stations which are already over capacity but we should look into stations were something like this might be possible. Maybe raising the floor height of regional trains might also be a solution. All of the equipment could be placed under the floor instead of on the roof. While it will make double decker emus easier it can also make it a bit harder to get to some components. I guess there are always some downsides. Personally I think we should standardize height to the height of ICEs because getting the floors of them lower will be quite a challenge for EMU ICEs. The equipment needs to stay under the floor for better handling (lower center of gravity) at those speeds as far as I know

​@@Guy-ZeroYou might be comparing 55cm platfroms to 76cm ones. 96cm(the highes possible platformheight allowed) is only used for s-bahns. It would be ideal to have level boarding on ICE trains, but that would neccesitate a seperate network or a platform rebuilding for most rural stations. both not feasable. What would be possible is camel stations

DB ordered a further 17 in May, bringing the total to 90 - hope that clarifies!

Since they are all Siemens Velaro trains, based on the original ICE 3 model.

It is. You are confusing the ICE3neo with the ICE3 Velaro D, which was built between 2009 and 2012. These trains however are in service since December 2022.

They won't fix that problem on their own BUT they will be a major part of fixing it step by step. Reliable and fast trains can actually increase punctuality by large margins because they can stop the small delays of a few minutes in the first place that would otherwise snowball to much longer delays. The lacking level boarding is one of the biggest problems with all ICE trains

Someone got triggered, yes? China literally also is operating ICEs next to other trains... so I doubt their own trains are "better", instead of "different". And of course the ICEs can go at high speed for long distances, because otherwise a regular train would be able to do the same job just fine... instead of paying for expensive fast trains.

There's a difference between the trains and the system. German high speed trains only have one problem being the missing level boarding. The system however sucks, we have less rail kilometers per person than the US (7th densest network in the world though), only few actual HSR lines, many delays in long distance trains (only few in regional trains). But this comment sounds as if the HSR lines themselves aren't good enough which is not true. While they're not very straight (which massively reduces costs because fewer tunnels and bridges are needed) they do enable speeds of 250-300km/h depending on the length and age of the route. Some HSR lines like the recently opened Wendlingen-Ulm line are just to short for 300km/h, doing that would've cost more, but it's only a few minutes (like less than 5) faster, I don't remember the exact amount. Also Germany is a) much denser than most countries, including china, which makes building rail much harder as you have to dodge cities, and b) actually protects human rights, in contrast to china, so the state cannot just take your property away for no reason. It can be done, but it always results in court cases which are too long to reliably do when planning infrastructure

@@jan-lukas - Nonsense about the human rights... as if Europe has a clean record of human rights during colonialism, WW2 and Imperial wars since 1950s ! Utter nonsense. I have sat on the HSR in Germany, the ICE 3, the average speed was about 125 kmph , the 300 kmph was maintained only for less than 10% of the time, depending on the straight lines. In China they are covering 1200 KMs in 3.5 hours, average speed of about 320 kmph, max of 350 kmph ! Simply incredible. Even Japan has very highly dense towns and cities, yet they have a very good HSR system across Japan !

@@artus198 When your argument is whataboutism and you have to go back in history, you should realise that the original argument is a very valid point.

take the meds