The vast majority of the astrophotography community is really positive, and I should really do a follow up video on it. I'll never forget the fellow who knew I kept livestock and wanted me to attend a star party so much he was willing to hire a shepherd so I could get away, or the person who knew i was rebuilding after a hurricane destroyed our home and sent me a set of narrowband and LRGB filters to help me get the observatory going. The good really does far outweigh the bad.
Your channel is encouraging, positive, and certainly informative. It's refreshing to see an astrophotography channel that is not about the latest gadget, filter, or Pixinsight script. When you do recommend a product, it's about a tool that you have found valuable. Not something that an astrophotography brand has sent you for a 'review'. You are teaching and sharing, rather than preaching and selling. Thank you!
I appreciate the fact that you are always trying to stretch the limits in our hobby and are willing to share the results. There's a lot of dogma in astrophotography with good advice from 20 years ago is mixed up with more current ways of working. If you want to do more than take the same Grand Canyon shot that everyone else gets, you have to keep pushing and looking for new ways to acquire and process the data. This is exactly what you do with this channel and I for one, appreciate it. Keep pushing!
We cant really criticise other peoples work as we dont know thier limitations :- financial, time, location, experience, commitment, aims, health etc etc . We do this because we can and it connects us with the universe. Our unatainable god is hubble and james webb. But we try for our own benefit. Who knows what space actually looks like , this is art generated in our own minds with our own hands using technology and programming provided by high achieving like minded people . I am proud of my work because i did it , im proud of your work because you did it . We are not all on the same level and never will be , respect that .
Trolls and gatekeepers are everywhere. I’ve had more than my share since I go against the norms in the music world. I’ve found the absolute best response is to ignore their insignificance and keep displaying my art for the enjoyment of those who choose to enjoy it.
Very much so! It helps being from the bush when going against the flow. We bush folk are pretty independent minded to begin with. I am glad you are doing the same. It's your art; share it your way.
I always watch your channel videos with great enjoyment. They’ve made me think about the way I do things, and pushed me to really think about what we’re actually trying to do with astro images. It’s so refreshing to hear you say these things that I’ve often thought. All the best, clear skies, and please keep the content coming!
my personal litmus test for if my image is good is if my mom likes it 🙂 I'm only 3 years into astrophotography and so I am still learning. I'm a member of the fb learning astrophotography group and see your posts there. For the most part everyone has been nice and helpful to me but I did notice that as I improved , I did draw a gatekeeper/troll a time or two. I've been a professional artist for over 25 years, so I am used to the gatekeepers and trolls. The pattern I've noticed over the years is that the better your work, the more the gatekeepers and trolls show up. I use it as a measuring stick for my progress lol. I've been enjoying your channel and as soon as we have some clouds, I plan to catch up on watching your videos. Until then, I'll be outside in the backyard gathering photons every clear night I can!
I've had someone publicly on a live astronomy broadcast, criticise the entire first half of my journey since 2010. While i was using extremely limited equipment. He promptly got told to get off his high horse, and what he could do with said horse. These people usually have their head so far up their own backside, it's popped back out the top of their neck.
Nice one, but careful, there are experts, and "experts". The former are the ones with knowledge and experience, whose comments abd insights we can benefit from, whereas the latter are "walking and talking examples of the Dunning Krueger effect" as said in this video.
I recall something a geology professor told me ages back: An expert is a person who knows more and more about less and less. She would always push me to become hyper-specialized, like a proper academic. I would push back that my field was far too eclectic to make that mistake. But the idea of hyper specialization undoubtedly creates much misunderstanding, like the four blind men trying to describe an elephant.
Good video. After 71 years on this planet I've learned that some people, for what ever reason simple can't work and play well with others. Basic respect for other is really all it takes.... BTW, I really appreciate and enjoy your channel.
This is great. Thanks for sharing your experiences, as painful as some of them must have been initially. Great advice, too, about ignoring them and focusing instead on what we learn and get out of our hobby. Words of wisdom...words to live by. Thank you!
Where I lived much of my life was 50 miles of roadless wilderness to the nearest village of a couple hundred people. Bush people are pretty stubborn and independent minded, so that helps lol
@@SKYST0RY 😂 And the fact that you are less likely to fall prey to the major cause of most unhappiness today, i.e., caring what other people think and always comparing yourself with them, is probably one of the best mental health secrets around! 👍
Thanks for the insightful video. I agree with you that astrophotography is more of a personal taste for an individual person. If you like what you're doing that's what matters. Cs
Great video, it's like the don't understand art. Considering everyone shoots M31, the only way to be unique is to be and do differently You are top tier my man. Keep sharing.
I just heard one of the better astrophotographers on RU-vid complain that a well-known astro RU-vidr complained that his images were crap behind the scenes. It's actually funny because he's literally one of the best. I'm wondering if it's the same guy. It will become known in time. The more tools you are good with the better you are. It doesn't matter what the tools are.
@@SKYST0RY Astrobin on his image, not on any boards. I believe I was looking for image times and equipment used and it was in general comments for the image.
Just visited the mentioned Astrobin page - see exactly what folks mean about the quality (or lack of) in the images - especially some really curious palette choices!. I had watched some of his videos previously but hearing about his behaviour it I won't be doing it again. BTW I like the content you create on this channel - it's very informative and entertaining - keep it up. ("Nill illegitmus carborundum"!)
Please allow me to share a quick story. About five years ago I was at a Zoo and somehow ended up in a conversation with a total stranger about astrophotography. Naturally I pulled out my smart phone and was sharing a few of my images with him. At one point he reached over to my screen placing his index finger and thumb in the middle and spread them apart. This of course zoomed deeply into the image. He then commented “Not very good resolution” and walked away. I stood there insulted at first, but then I thought to myself as if asking the stranger; “did you think you were looking at my 100mb TIFF version or perhaps a less than 1mb jpeg version for my smart phone’s small screen?” Next, I either ran over to him and punched him in the nose or I walked away shaking my head. You decide.
This is so applicable to just about any fields, be it in professional settings or regular day-to-day social interactions or even in MMO clan competitions, the gatekeepers are a constant in life for us all to experience. Some of us are wise to it very early in life, others realise much later on about how we've been letting them torment us in our ruminations for no good reason other than their own egoistical satisfaction. The important part is the moment you realise it, take a deep breath, re-hydrate, go for some fresh air and when you come back simply but politely close the door on them and move on, all while being aware sooner or later in life you will encounter another one of those in a different shape and setting and you will be wiser to not fall in their trap again.
Absolutely! Once identified, compartmentalize and dismiss. I love how one of my profs put it ages ago: "No one gives a rat's ass wha they think, so why should you?"
Very true and I like how it's not about just astrophotography but about everyone's lives too. And of course people shouldn't be this annoyed over a photo of space, it's just an image, not a life or death thing.
Well said. I used to process images in a manner that would please other astro imagers. Not anymore. I process them to highlight the targets' details or areas I enjoy and in the pallet that I like. I'm never disappointed that way :-)
I find it funny that you studied Emergent Intelligence. Perhaps you should write a paper on "Dimmergence"...declining intelligence, based on the research you have done on Trolls and Gatekeepers ;-) keep up the great work. You have set a high bar. Thank you.
Interestingly, while not exactly an issue of emergent intelligence, there is a phenomenon where academic standards keep going lower and lower. It's mostly an issue of cross generational lowering of academic standards.
Awesome video. Haters are always going to hate. Gotta feel sad for them. Your channel has quickly become my primary resource fire improving my basic understanding and skills. Great content from a talented astrophotographer.
Although as a terrestrial photographer I'm well aware that artistic vision comes into play in every image, I didn't appreciate the extent to which artistic vision applies to astrophotography. I initially assumed that deep sky objects had a pretty limited set of display options. Not so. But that means that I will like some presentations and not like others. It's that simple. And I have adopted some processing techniques I like and have ignored others. It's that simple too. I have to be honest and say that I don't always find your techniques and results appealing, but I do learn from each of them. It is awesome to have alternative viewpoints.
There are so many ways to do this. So many, in fact, that I doubt if I were to reprocess any image, the results would be quite the same as last time. Partly, because there are a lot of steps to reach the finished image, and partly because I am always learning and adding new technique. It is the way of all art, and science, too. It's why I think everyone's vision should be respected.
Interesting video. Just a note that compositing different exposures is quite easy in Pixinsight using the HDR composition process. You don't need a layer based tool to accomplish that. I used that process on my M42 shot recently and it works quite well. Its your data and your images so keep doing what you are doing as long as it makes you happy. Keep experimenting and producing the work that keeps you interested and don't let others judge you based on some established set of rules. I always do things the way I want and don't listen to those who claim to be experts and preach the only way. I experiment and find out for myself how I want to work. Thanks for sharing.
No doubt. PI is very capable and very powerful. I think it's less efficient and less capable in the end, but in the hands of a truly skilled person it can be pushed a long way. I think of it like my friend who makes violins with old carving tools and disdains power tools. His way works. It's slower, but there is no dismissing the quality of his instruments. They are extraordianry. I bought one myself. But really matters is he loves making them that way. It's almost meditative, the slow process of bending wood with steam and shaping blocks with delicate blades. He turns out one a month, falling in love with each one as he does.
@@SKYST0RY Would be interesting to test that theory on less efficient and less capable. I can work through most images pretty quickly if I just want a quick result. I often spend more time than is necessary to pull out more detail or focus on practicing a specific flow. Anyhow. You do what works for you and keep up the good work.
Why does youtube only let me click once on the thumbs up button? I put it on 128 but like to hit it some more times! This video is great. I'm not on Facebook anymore, it just gave me stress. The trols and gate keepers, as you call them made me sick. If you don't youse Photo Shop your photo sucks, acourding to some. If you'r photo is'nt taken in a sertaind way, it sucks acourding to them. This doesn't just count for astrophotography, I do also URBEX photography, macro and just photograpy in darknes. Some always have to say something. What 'the' some also sould keep in mind is that everybody hase a differend butget to spend, I for example don't have the money for expensive filters, but I do my best to get the best out of the things I have. And for me, last but not seast, I photograph for myself, and if I like and want to make a photo of a green moon I do so. Thanks for this great video, I hope a lot of people watch it and think twice befor they scream.
Thank you! Being very muchb a ruralite, more of a backwoods dweller, I had to look up URBEX. I never heard that term before. Love making your art and sharing it. The gatekeepers don't matter.
I’ve never had any of my images attacked by trolls or gatekeepers, but i’ve had my equipment attacked. I was helping a guy with a telescope recommendation in a chat room I was in and I told him what telescope I use, and he goes and asks other people if my recommendation is right, and they dragged me in to their chat and attacked me for buying that specific telescope. That experience really dragged me down so I just left.
LOL Yeah, equipment snobs. That's why I love to bring up in my videos that the telescope I am using is one the snobs often diss as no good. Modern equipment is so good that generally the real issue is quality of the sky and development technique.
Very first Milky Way photo I posted from my cellphone, almost four years ago. One person made it a point to tell me how awful it was. Granted, he was right, it was horrible, but the situation could've been approached differently. I have held onto the first awful photo to remind myself of my own progress, as well as the fact that everyone is a beginner at one point, and I'll often share it with beginners who get "shamed" for their lack of skill.
I always recall the chilling fact that 1 in 6.5 persons is a functional sociopath. They enjoy causing pain, if they can. Others are just insecure and need to knock others to feel better about themselves. Best to just ignore them and move on.
Hello there. I like your Videos and also use Affinity. I also shoot from Bortle 1 and use a OSC camera. I have been Trolled recently on Cloudy Nights mainly because I don't use filters and shoot in OSC. your Video resonated with me and my experience. Hard to know whats the best thing to do sometimes, as these people like to LIGHT you Up. With AP I try to encourage people, and notice that successful You Tube Channels generally do this. Keep going and do the best you can. there is always someone who knows more than you, and they will tell you how wrong you are, but generally their images are crap. I notice they don't post images often. Best wishes and good luck. Dave
@17:13 - So, what is the program you’re using to turn flat astrophotography images into a three dimensional space that you can fly through? Is it just randomly generating the stars that move, or is it actually 3D accurate as to the relative positions of the stars, and the speed a position at which they would pass by? Either method is fine, I’m just curious to know which one is being employed here. Thanks again!
The trailers at the back? The images are real; things I've shot at the observatory. The star fields are created by a planetarium called Space Engine, then they are composited to the primary image.
I've watched a few of his videos. He strikes me as a bit of an opportunist that came onto the scene late. I remember one of his first videos showed data that had back spacing issues which he commented on and didn't seem to understand how to correct it. Nothing he has posted has shown me any new techniques or new way of doing things. I have never learned from his channel. I had to give his astrobin a view. Some of his images are just hard to look at, though he has made progress. My biggest issue is how he passes himself off as an expert, but seems to be learning some fundamentals. We are all learning and trying to better ourselves and images, but I would never tell someone the way I do things is the right way.
This is a beautiful image, both aesthetically, as well as from a 'scientific' perspective. There is enough detail here that a suitably motivated amateur could study and try to understand, at some level, the astronomy behind the image. At least that is what I try to do with my images, as well as others. Ignore the detractors and keep producing these things.
You need to be careful with making assumptions. I have a friend who is a Chinese National. I am an amateur wildlife photographer. He was brutally honest in what I needed to do to make my images better. At first I was offended, but I soon realized that the Chinese culture tends to be strait forward without platitudes. I realized he was genuinely trying to make me a better photographer and we have become good friends over the last 6 years and I now welcome his input.
There’s a difference between radical honesty and gatekeepers or trolls. The Dutch also tend to be radically honest. I’ve actually come to appreciate their approach.
I am from the northern bush, where it was 50 miles of roadless wilderness to the nearest tiny village. I don't live there now, but bush people are much like this. You don't see people much so when you do see them, you try to enjoy the visit so you're straightforward and don't beat around the bush. I find directness to be a virtue. But, like most bush persons I've known (and I am really no different), I have exactly no time for trolls. A Hopi friend of mine, Blue Sky, once said he doesn't spend 60 seconds in a month worrying whether someone approves of him or not. I have found it's a common sentiment among bush persons. Get along or move along is a philosophy that promotes mental health lol
Great message here. Diversity and uniqueness should be celebrated, especially in the arts. Imagine if everyone followed the same processing workflow. I've encountered a lot of gatekeeping in astrophotography and astronomy, and I call it out every time it rears its ugly head. Keep up the great work!
I decided to try an LRGB image of an emission nebula (SH2-86). I image under at-best Bortle 7 skies. After gathering over 40 hours of data, I realized that it was a fun experiment to prove I should have spent the time using my narrowband filters :). As for image processing software - use whatever works for you. Who cares if it's PixInsight or Affinity or GIMP or Siril or Photoshop or some combination of all of them.
One of the things that puzzles me is the notion that there's only space for doing things "the right way", and everything else is wrong and will give you worse images. It's just very counterintuitive to the spirit of experimentation and play that comes with something being a hobby, where you can afford to try things and see what you get. In the end, I feel like it's pointless trying to get the "best" image - someone always has a bigger telescope and better sensor than you, and with extremely rare exceptions there's absolutely nothing an amateur astrophotographer could do that would not be instantly outmatched by a (inter)national science observatory on a purely technical level. So, why chase that - and why just strive to recreate exactly what others do? Learning and making more intelligent choices about data acquisition and image processing are great, but ultimately we should be encouraging people to try and put their own twist on things and show off their experiments, even failed or semi-successful ones. That ability to try different things is the real "superpower" of amateur astronomy. It'd be a shame to give that away for just doing pale imitations of what others have done or could do better, anyway.
"A real 'superpower' of amateur astronomy." I love that idea. I think the dilemma comes from the history of the field. Up until fairly recently, it was held back by limited technology. As technology and accessibility have made leaps forward, the old guard hangs on to old ways.
Relaxing voice, great content and lots of interesting suggestions. Some people have a very high opinion of themselves...dunning-kruger is an incredibly useful lens to watch the world. However, let's not be too sad about what you are saying in your video: alas, it's in Italian (I'm Italian) and I can't quote it here (useless), but Galileo mentions the same thing in his book Il Saggiatore: there he writes that, in his experience, the less someone knows about a subject, the more he wants to talk about it. It was published in 1624, so it is an old habit of mankind.....
Well, some are scum. Always been that way, but most are good and some are great. I should really do a video on the great experiences I've had with astrophotographers, like the fellow who knew I kept livestock and wanted me to attend a star party so much he was willing to hire a shepherd so I could get away, or the person who knew i was rebuilding after a hurricane destroyed our home and sent me a set of narrowband and LRGB filters to help me get the observatory going. The good really does outweigh the bad. The bad can just be especially loud lol
It's held up well. Last year we had "snowpocalypse", some 3 meters of snow in two days. (Basically, the whole winter worth of snow in two days). The observatory has also withstood a hurricane and two near-hurricane force tropical storms. We live near the top of this mountain, so I built it solid.
If you're interested in a further explanation of what you are dealing with, Martha Stout's 2006 book, The Sociopath Next Door, does a good job of explaining their psychology and how to effectively deal with them. On the Internet, a simple ignore will do, but if you're experiencing dealing with one in real life, the book might help.
Thank you! In real life, I can be a big and scary person. Comes with decades of bush living, I guess. But that is language that tends to keep sociopaths away.
Great video! I image deep sky (along with planetary, lunar, solar) with a very nonstandard rig, a stock 12 inch Alt/Az Goto Dobsonian. So you can imagine the type of gatekeeping I’ve experienced and it’s curious because in my experience also, the gatekeepers often don’t have good images themselves. For me some of the most severe and unconstructivecfeedback came from people that had poor, or at best average, images themselves. I wonder if that’s a coincidence or there’s a pattern here.
Definitely a pattern, explained by the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Those who don't know also don't know they don't know. As someone else stated on this video: If you fly over the target, you're going to catch flack.
@@SKYST0RY I will say that after awhile, and after getting decent images (at least to my eye,but you be the judge: Goto Astro Bin and search for user ReadyForTheJetty), they eventually gave up on me. I was a lost cause! Lol…
I love it, so crisp and clear! Living just outside Saint John I am limited to bortle 3 at best, so I fight with a bad gradient. I had the oportunity to shot in a bortle 2 during the summer and the difference was dramatic. I wish I could utilize or capture flux properly. How did you bring forward the background flux in the witchhead?
Bortle 3 is a pleasure; I used to be in one. The local municipality has now decided, since people wanted it, to install LEDs for "all-night sun". That's how you ruin Bortle 3-4 to 6-7.
Light pollution is such a nightmare. I would image being just outside it could be even worse due to the gradient it would create. I don't know much about dealing with it except for how I defend against moonlight. I think you are referring to the image of NGC1333 at the end of the video, which has a lot of dust around it. To capture flux, you need a dark sky and a LOT of integration time. Best shot on a mono camera with an L filter, too. The flux around Polaris and among the Leo Triplet can take 20 to 50 hours to really bring out well. I just finished that image after the last two nights allowed me to catch another 10 hours of integration. You can see it here: www.astrobin.com/8jaxh8/
There is an old military expression... you don't take flack unless you are over the target. I expect some of these gatekeeper/troll types see you as a threat to their business or RU-vid revenue stream. You talk about techniques that can be done with freeware or low priced software which can impact their bottom line or businesses they shill for.
typically, someone giving good advice will complement your work in some way...such as saying...good effort...its a good start...and then say something along the lines of "this is how you can improve" and then typically say "good job...keep at it!" trolls don't lift you up, only tear you down.
It's like studying in university. A prof who cares and wants you to improve may provide hard critique, but the prof also tells you why and how to get better. It isn't about doing things their way, it's about developing a deeper understanding so you can do things your way but better. Trolls just want you to feel bad. For gatekeepers, it's all about their way. Their way, in their minds, is the only way.
