I can only get my usb-c ipad to output 44khz from amazon ultra…..nothing above. Can you confirm you can get above this with apple music as i was under the impression that the way they deal with the output means everything is downscaled. Im using an amazon basic usb-c to usb-a from a 2020 ipad to an ifi xdsd dad/amp. Using my older ipad, from lightening usb camera adaptor to the xdsd i get up-to 192khz, confirmed from within the amazon music app.
I think the release of lossless has really highlighted how much perception and the placebo effect are prevalent in the world of audiophile and music. I’ve seen quite a few threads across social media with people saying how much better lossless sounds when it then turns out they are actually listening to an aac stream! One great example is people using Airplay to stream to their setup - airplay supports up to lossless (24 bit 48Khz) but the Apple Music app doesn’t, it only streams using the standard AAC codec! People think it’s going to sound better so they hear it as better, not that there is anything wrong with that. I keep telling myself that my setup is as good as a £50k high end setup…😀
I've tried some of the tracks on my Dolby Atmos speaker setup. They do work pretty well for placing voices and instruments all around you. Thing is some songs are distracting in how they might have been mixed (IE having the singer in front of you, but guitars in back of you).
Did you try with airpods pro or airpods pro max? Spatial audio only works on those devices, it's insane and a different experience than anything i've ever heard
Actually (at least on iOS) you can turn the Dolby atmos from auto to “always on” and it will play atmos on any headphone. I have been listening yesterday to some of it using exactly the Sennheiser hd560s (with just the lightning to jack dongle, no extra amp since the 560 is just 120 ohms and can be driven quite ok directly). It sounds pretty nice when listening to live performances (tried with the Eagles spatial audio album), makes the 560s soundstage a lot wider, but it is indeed quieter. Maybe give it a spin like that?
Spatial audio basically tries to mimic what the Dolby atmos mix sounds like with an added effect to make it sound like your in a small room. It does sound odd but still a nice feature to have if you want to have a different music experience or if you want to get a feel for what the atmos mix sounds like. The best way to experience Dolby atmos music is through Apple TV with atmos enabled receiver and high quality speakers. No question. It sounds incredible.
Well explained video 👍 I like how you mentioned Tidal because I used to it but stopped because of the price but I did like the sound quality. It wasn’t as punchy as Apple Music but it was crisp. And I agree I’m not that impressed with Dolby Atmos because to me it sounds like when you arrive at a outdoor concert and you’re walking to the concert from your car and you can hear the music but it sounds far away. But I’m definitely going to have to try out them gadgets to enjoy lossless audio 👌
I’ve been finding an answer for days. Is apples spatial audio just about the head tracking function? What’s the main difference between Dolby Atmos and spatial audio? Can those two be used together? Would appreciate any answers greatly.
From what I’ve seen, Apple is using spatial audio and Dolby atmos pretty much interchangeably so this is more a marketing distinction. I think Apple initially wanted to avoid using the Dolby atmos branding when the feature was initially announced in iOS 14 but it seems they’ve reversed this decision, which I agree with to avoid confusion between spatial audio vs Dolby atmos. Dynamic head tracking is an Apple specific feature and is not part of Dolby atmos/spatial audio. In other words, spatial audio does not need to have dynamic head tracking, but dynamic head tracking requires spatial audio. Hope that clarifies it a bit.
I had a chance to listen to the Atmos version of Hybrid Theory from Linkin Park, and I can’t help but agree with you in regards to a more quieter hollow sound. I did also notice some tracks that had seemed modified, which makes me think that it might be less of the technology at fault and more so the engineering. Just my 2 cents.
I'm listening to Crawling from that album, a song I'm very familiar with, and it sounds terrible! The intro looses all of the bass, the chorus has over emphasised the drums and the main vocals have reverb (1:46-2:05 is a good example of the fake reverb).
It's almost like A: Atmos isn't meant for your cheap headphones or any other headphones and B: That album wasn't recorded in Atmos so it's fake anyway... and C: the band kinda sucks.
Mark, the Airpod Max’s don’t provide the option of hard wiring to a dac/amp. Bluetooth only. As you mentioned, Bluetooth is incapable of streaming HD. I’m staying with my Sony XM3 as they allow both Bluetooth compressed audio (convenient when I run) and HD when I connect to the dac. Compressed audio has a small soundstage which is why HD sounds so open and detailed. The open backed sennheisers have huge, open soundstage. Audition the wired HD600. They’re better than the 560s. The dragonfly and the Zen both good products! I never use spatial audio. Good video 👍
I think until there are numerous releases available that were mixed specifically for Atmos, it’s only gonna sound hollow and weird on any music not specifically mixed for the process. If engineers and producers jump on the Atmos bandwagon, then the technology may take off.
Thank you. Have iPhone 11 Pro 512 GT, most of my music is recorded via iMac as AIFF files. I have compared music bought from Apple Music, AAC, using CD as lossless, about half of AIFF, roughly, and AIFF files. Good recordings for example Led Zeppelin. Tested using 3 generations of AirPods via bluetooth. AIFF files sound remarkably better than others even with the 1. generation AirPods. Having owned dragon fly, surprisingly I listen inside house with AirPods Max, what a sound, outside AirPods Pro. I think Apple have done magic with AirPods and bluetooth.
Spatial Audio is hit and miss on Apple Music but lossless is great. Also I have my AirPods Pro calibrated with Audiogram to match my specific hearing. Used the Mimi app to take an Audiogram test.
I concur a tad with spatial sound in Apple Music being disappointing. There are some songs that utilize the spatial sound in a truly immersive manner. Try listening to Tiësto - BOOM, it’s a world of difference.
I’m really enjoying the spatial audio on the Beyerdynamics 990 Pro directly plugged into my iPad Pro. Might be the novelty of being able to place instruments in specific locations but I find it pretty cool and a little bit more natural, as if I were in the recording studio. As with most things, it’s a personal preference. Keep in mind that you need to re-download your songs and adjust the Apple Music settings to get it to work.
Still with Dolby Atmos on Tidal. There’s a playlist on there called 70s Tidal Atmos Tracks. The sound on my setup seems more expansive and I’m using cheaper headphones tans setup than yours but still notice what seems to be a larger soundstage. I didn’t really notice at first but after a few weeks I can now hear the difference between Master and 360° / Atmos tracks. I’m mainly listening on an iPad Pro with a Ugreen USB C DAC / 3mm jack and Sennheiser HD599SE open back cans. As you mentioned though, it’s all subjective. I prefer a more neutral sound so it will be interesting to hear for myself or a review from your good self on the new Sony openbacked cans MDR-MV1.
Hi Mark - Please can we have an update on “Lossless” and spatial audio. Given Apple has announced HomePod 2 , is there now a way to play this format/s on the HomePod 2?
It is so sad that Apple doesn't support Audio over USB with the AirPods Max. I simply can't get it into my head, why they didn't think about that simple but great use case, especially with the announcement of lossless audio now....
The iFi Hip DAC is also brilliant for more portable use With power match, it drives my Sennheiser HD800 real sweet Trying to do ATMOS on even hi end cans is a joke,and gets worse with cheap Apple buds ATMOS done proper IE Steven Wilson and a proper ATMOS gear at home is stellar
If you want to take advantage of your Airpods Max, you should get the Apple cable that allows to you to use them wired ($35) and hook them to your Dragonfly. This is not a simple wire cable as it has an ADC in it (analog to Digital). Even before the High Res add, they really sounded a lot better this way. I'm not sure about the Black version but the Cobalt version of Dragonfly came with an adapter called the Dragon Tail that adapts the USB-A to USB-C. That will plug directly to newer iPads and you can covert USB-C to Lightning for iPhone use.
@@arthuraps apple didn’t change the songs, these are mixes given to them by the artists or by the artists’s producers/mixers/estates. Apple doesn’t do that work.
Lossless is very good. HiRes and digital masters are stupendous using pro studio headphones or my Monitor Audio lounge reference speaker system plus REL sub. I trialled with a good Marantz streaming amp. Way better than my very good Marantz CD deck and that’s an award winning one. Classic albums like DSotM and Led Zep 4 are brilliant. Classical music sings especially hard to reproduce material such as solo piano, violin and choral. Highly recommended.
My macbook air M1 refuses to output higher than 44Khz signal (aka only lossless songs, not hi-res lossless). I have only encountered this with the Mac app (though I'm able to output full 192Khz or even DSD128 with the same setup using Audirvana & Tidal). The ipad/iphone apps work fine though. Can I ask if you are having the same problem?
@@fernandoponcemata650 Not what I see. I use a Dragonfly DAC attached to the M1. I tells me what it is seeing is at least 96K (it is limited to 96K even thaough I have the setting on the Mac to go all the way to 192K if available). I am running the latest Big Sur update 11.4 which I believe is required for the high res full support.
@@thomasnewsom6084 it seems like this is a software compatible problem. My 2 TEAC DACs both refuse to output higher resolution. Guess there will have to be driver updates on the other company side to be able to take full advantages of the new ALACs.
Thanks for detailed info. How do you listen to the lossless music in Hifi system at home? Does network player streaming through WiFi play the lossless audio?
I’m slightly confused as on many You Tube channels, Lossless is 24-bit/48KHz yet when I click on the Lossless tab under the progress bar of the track in Apple Music, the settings are displayed at 16-bit/44.1KHz - is this due to the limitation of the iPhone? I used to have Amazon Music Unlimited and this was their HD Quality (CD Quality) which also displayed as 16bit-44.1KHZ and the next level up which I’m assuming was 24-bit/48 or 96KHz was called Ultra HD. I listen to my music on a pair of Bluetooth Liberty 3 Pro’s and when I switched between the two levels on Amazon Music Unlimited I could definitely hear the difference - it was night and day. On Apple Music the Hi Res Lossless just gets louder. The Liberty Earbuds are classed as being Hi Res Audio but I’m wondering if that’s just in LDAC mode. If I’m only using Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro earbuds and a Soundcore 3 Bluetooth speaker, what quality setting do you suggest I have set in Apple Music? At the moment I have it set to Lossless (not Hi-Res Lossless).
Just started playing with spatial audio with my Powerbeats Pros (songs only). Too soon to tell since so many songs either don't have the Dolby Atmos symbol or I have never heard the songs being played, and compare to what I think I'm used to. But several of the examples definitely opened up the space of what is traditionally a very closed stereo sound. I think it's quite promising. I will try with shows/movies, but that's not what I would primarily use it for. The idea of keeping the sound in front you regardless of which way you turn your head is honestly odd. Like, that's not why I watch movies on a phone. So if I decide to get up on go do something while listening, what happens? Don't see the point.
Is the lossless format louder/punchier because it comes through a DAC/Headphone amp or is this comparison to lossless vs lossy happening via the same DAC? Just wondering.
So lossless bit rate is about 1.4Mbps and Bluetooth 5.0 is 2Mbps, but you cannot get lossless over BT? I don't see why not (based on maths), but surely it will not be long anyway?
I see your new mechanical keyboard!! I just got the same type A80 iqnix! How are you liking it? Mine came with the “e” key not working… i had to remove the switch and straighten out the pins to get it to work. Wondering if you had any issues with it
So this is an important question. I've been using apple music for almost a year now with my air pods maxes and I own a Samsung galaxy s21. All of my songs that are downloaded are in lossless audio. Should I change them back to AAC files since the Airpods Max doesn't support lossless audio?
One annoying thing with the Atmos tracks is that there is no way to get your iPhone/iPad to play these through a receiver with a surround sound setup. Which is crazy as that’s always going to sound better than a fudge with headphones. The only way to do it is to go buy an Apple TV 😒
Great review, thanks! However, I don't listen to my music on headphones of earphones, I have a big sounding Onkya 11.2 receiver that rocks my neighbourhood, generally using Tidal. Is it possible to channel Apple Music's Spacial Audio through my receiver? Would it work using the RCA outputs on the back of the Zen DAC or some other means? I have an M1 MBP and iP12 Pro.
You nailed Spatial with the word “gimmicky”. It’s fun but no match for true hi res. I thought Kraftwerk and The Doors actually sound quite good in Spatial but something like The Weeknd sounded like he was singing in the next room. To quote my 12-year-old “it just sounds echoey” 😆
Quite ironic really - Apples removes the headphone jack from all iPhones and then release an audio file that requires you to plug in your headphones… Wonder how they are going to change / improve on this in the future 🤔 (Are the new AirPods going to resolve this?)
Question: can I use my Dac/amp FIIO BTR5 Bluetooth Audio Codec APTX HD To play hires Apple audio files using my iPhone ?? Any input will be appreciated Alex.
Apple is definitely making their own pro audio gears, they will be late but definitely will come, just like the 18w charger, when iPhone 8 was released with 18w fast charging Apple only have MacBook chargers could do the job but they're not intended to, pro audio gears would be the same.
There will be an update released eventually that allows Apple headphones to connect using airplay. This will allow for Apple headphones to play the top tier lossless. It was always intended that it would coincide with the Apple Music upgrade but current lawsuits pertaining to antitrust litigation as well as accusations of being a monopoly. Prevented the release of that ability at this time as it would only be apple and beats headphones that would be capable of said connection. But it’s as simple as an over the air update and airpod Max, pro and the new AirPod gen 3 will be able to deliver the first wireless lossless audio experience.
Your VOICE IS GREATER THAN LOSSLESS AND DOBLY ATMOS I HOPE APPLE WOULD BORROW YOUR VOICE TO BECOME SIRI I WOULD DOWNLOAD IT EVEN IF APPLE WILL ASK FOR A PAYMENT
Luddite warning: I have Apple Music turned OFF on both my Mac and iOS devices. I'm listening to my long-standing iTunes Library, which includes purchases from Apple's iTunes over the years, and albums ripped from CDs (using iTunes). I *think* a long time ago I set (what was then the iTunes app) to use AAC. Can I change a setting in the current Music app to play the original CD quality (for ripped albums), and download lossless versions for the albums I purchased? I have lots of room on my iOS devices and Mac to store higher quality audio, so I'd rather go that way, and not pay Apple $10/mo for their streaming service.
I've since learned that I can set the Music app to rip CDs using the much better Apple Lossless Encoder instead of the default AAC. Even my senior ears can hear the difference, so an improvement! www.musicservertips.com/how-to-articles/ripping-cds-to-itunes/
Every song I've listened to so far on AirPods Pro has either sounded no different (Blinding Lights - The Weekend), or overly modified/fake to the point it sounds like a tacky WinAmp DSP preset (Paparazzi - Lady Gaga). For this reason it's now turned off
People really exaggerating how "bad" compressed audio is. It is not. If you only listen in lower bitrate like sub 128kbps, then you indeed can tell the difference. Compresssed audio reached transparency when it's in 200kbps+ bitrate. Most of the time you could not tell the difference between 320kbps compressed audio with losslees FLAC, even if you have high end headphone setup.
MARK APPLE MUSIC HD IS GREAT, IN MODE SPATIAL AUDIO DOLBY ATMOS AND HI RES AND LOSSLES IS GREAT, I LESSEN WITH SENNHEISER MOMENTUM 3 CODEC APTX AND SENNHEISER 660 HD + CHORD MOJO FANTASTIC BUT WITH SENNHEISER MOMENTUM 3 APPLE MUSIC CLASSIC MUSIC AND OTHER IS FANTASTIC, DEAD TIDAL QOBUZ AND SPOTIFY, APPLE MUSIC HD CREATE THE NEW WORD FOR MUSIC FOR ME !! I AM THE FORST CLARINET IN OPERA ORCHESTRA IN CAGLIARI (ITALY) MY ENGLISH IS DISASTER BUT I LOOK YOUR VIDEO ALWAIS. BY BY MARK FROM ITALY.
Bluetooth is not even cd quality What’s the point? Chromecast is not gapless if you prefer that, I don’t mind. But Dolby Atmos in IEMS? How is that a thing? Even headphones are possible but binaural is best in this genre.
Completely disagree. The non Atmos version are what feel "hollow". Dolby Atmos is a game changer for music. The first time I put it on, I thought the same as you. I went yuck, what happened to the volume and the vocals?. I went back and forth with it on and then off on a few songs and left it off. Then I put on some headphones and everything changed. Two albums that really show off what Atmos can do IMO are the latest albums from CHVRCHES (Screen Violence) and Cannons (Fever Dream). Put on some headphones and listen to "He said She said" off Screen Violence. You dont even need to listen to the full song, just the intro, verse and chorus. Play with Atmos off first, then put it on and crank up the volume. The chorus hits way different with the Atmos version, you can FEEL it and will bring a smile to any audiophiles face. The non Atmos version sounds harsh with too much treble going back to it after Atmos. Then check out the track "Bad Dream" off Cannon's Fever Dream. Pay attention to the synth part around the middle of the song. In the non Atmos version, its just there. Then play the Atmos version and you will hear it bouncing around you. Best way I can describe it is 3D sound while the non Atmos versions sound flat when listened to again right after. Everything from the vocals to the instruments have more depth and presence to them with Atmos. It has that "warm" vinyl sound to it thats missing in the non Atmos version. In fact, the Atmos version of Screen Violence sounds better than my 180 gram vinyl version of it, which I never thought would happen with any digital music. Im in love with Atmos.
Dolby Atmos is really amazing when mixed correctly - John Williams LA Phil Olympic Fanfare sounded amazing. Don’t Know Why by Norah Jones was a revelation - her voice was the center and it was truly a delight. Then came the horrid tracks that I was actually looking forward to: Shallow by Lady Gaga - man I was utterly disappointed, Lady Gaga’s vocals were muted and the instruments overpowered the song . Another track that was I feel rushed was I Feel it Coming by The Weeknd and Daft Punk - my gosh Daft Punk vocals were messed up, the electronic soundstage was not good at all. It felt like they stripped the vibe and soul of the song. So I had to really think about it and then I realized may be it’s a bug so I compared the film version of Shallow to test things out since they offer it in Dolby Atmos on the film A Star is Born and there the Lady Gaga vocals are mixed correctly - the voice and vibe of the track shines - I went back to Apple Music v be ersion - muddled - The engineering going on really needs to be fine tuned and not rushed because some songs are being ruined by Dolby Atmos on Apple Music and may be bad press for the industry - Like you said in your video it’s hit and miss
I think the atmos system will explode … very early in the tech for both the head phones and the music . Unlike stereo where we simulate 3D audio atmos will truly give you a 3D experience we will have to see how they can tune and tweak it for head phones … I have a funny feeling tho it works for them , that this was designed for an actual high quality stereo
You feel Apple music is better is probably because it is true lossless. While Tidal streams MQA. And MQA is not true lossless. Apple Music or any service that offers true lossless, the audio should feel more natural, real and fuller. While Tidal feels harsh, artificial and tiny.
@@upload00 Yes, I did. And the thing is you have to set your music settings to Dolby Atmos to “Always ON” rather than automatic. Therefore if in your effort to listen to the best quality amongst those available, which is my goal. I would set my phone, laptop or iPad to: Dolby Atmos - “Automatic” and Lossless setting to “On” but in this set up Lossless appears on most track’s information as is being played with monitor pro wired headphones. With the same set up and changing to AirPods Pro; I would expect for Dolby Atmos to appear by the track information. But it doesn’t! Unless I turn the setting to “Always On”… what happened to automatic???
@@upload00 in order for us to learn the right way to experience it. Assuming we’ll be listening on a pair of Apple headphones. Please tell us the settings needed on our device (as you have) and the music track details for us to try please.
@@rickd438 it’s actually not too bad. Very technical and detailed review here. Good site for measurement based reviews of hifi stuff. audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/
@@rickd438 No probs. As always, take any reviews with a grain of salt. ASR is very technical in its approach, but that doesn’t mean stuff doesn’t sound good to your ears even if it measures poorly. 👍👍
For the Dolby Atmos, Isn't that the job of the mixing/audio engineer to be creative or at least know where to put the instruments or vocals to sound..... better. I think let the audio engineers invest their time to this new era of music to be better. I mean, If they can do that on Film, they can do that with music as well. I mean, we have watched a movie with Dolby Atmos using a headphones and we're amazed. So, I think let's give them time to adjust and learn more about this for music. I know for sure that it will get better over time.
I agree. There are also creative decisions for this kind of mixing, though (like any mix). Let's see what happens. I still like good, old-fashioned L and R, though!
Completely agree. I have heard some amazing Dolby Atmos tracks and some truly awful ones. It is all about the care and attention the audio engineers put into the mix. Kraftwerk and Abbey Road have been outstanding. It does seem that the older music from the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s sounds better in this format. Is this because later music is over produced? 🤔
@@MarkBeech the other way around, rushed and many times underproduced, see the doom eternal OST drama, they give Mick Gordon all the time of the world but he did not finish it on time, then go listen to BFG Division from DOOM 2016… that was an album that come with a bonus game!
. lets see if we can bring the quality/options up to a whole new level for play back of Apple Hi res music and Tidal Hi res music and push the immersive music into the Dolby Atmos versions of great music artists... how? this time lets take the Apple TV4K and hook it up to the Smyth A16 realiser via HDMI... and for fun lets load a virtual listening room comprised of say a $10K speaker and to make things really interesting lets load 24 of those speakers into a Dolby Atmos virtual listening room with a configuration of 15.1.8... wow, thats $10K x 24 spkrs = $240,000 worth of sound... now lets plug in our favorite headphones... and put on some music.. lets try the Beetles... Sgt Peppers Lonely Heart.... in Dolby Atmos... did I mention that we would be using a set of headphones emulating a speaker setup worth $240,000.... yep and the sound is fantastic.... simply fantastic...
Keep in mind, activating hi-res doesn’t make sense on the Mac, because macOS isn’t bit perfect and the OS won’t play for example 96khz songs in 96khz even your DAC supports it. All songs will be played at 48khz, because this is the standard setting. You can check the current sample rate in the audio midi app. Unlike the iPad or iPhone, you have to switch every time the sample rate or it will stay on the setting you’ve picked. It’s such a shame apple is doing this. There are apps that are Bit Perfect, but the Apple Music app isn’t 🤦🏽♂️
Its funny that during the era of cd quality people are not appreciating that much when they discover digital quality they begun to junk their cds and only live for digital now we are going back again to lossless
