So you let the BMW win on price? I'm sorry, but what? That is a BMW base price, meaning you get wheels and an engine. The TFT screen you liked? 650 euro. The ESA you liked? 1000 euro. Lean sensitive ABS on the BMW, also an extra. Can't recall the price for that but remember that you need to have the rider modes as well as an option. You really need to look at the options you get standard and spec them out similarly, otherwise it is incorrect. Just take the standard KTM stuff and add it in on the BMW. KTM doesn't have endless option lists.
You 're right Peter I was just starting to saying that ..KTM have TFT, lean ABS, Suspension front fork fully adjustable, the rear also fully adjustable, ABS front and rear and driving modes Road, Street, off-road and rally with the base price.BMW has as you said wheels and engine at a base price. Quick shifters both have also as an extra in video.
@@josecalvete8187 riding modes? All new bikes have that. The BMW comes with center stand,fog lights, heated grips, gps mount and control, stainless rear and side racks and quickshifter .add all that to the ktm (that you can't because some are not even options on the ktm) and let's see.
@@josecalvete8187 the adventure R in australia comes with quickshifter up and down as standard at $21,500AUD ride away. $600 more for cruise control is pretty much the only option you would need. and maybe the akropovic if you're that way inclined.
@@guypritchard2451 If it is only road test then a test between road version of 790 and F850GS would be more fair. The road 790 has taller screen and lower suspension. Not really apples to apples comparison.
Maybe these bikes don't go offroad in the UK but in South Africa (and I'm sure Australia amongst others) many of these bikes spend a fair amount of time offroad
You have to remember that many times TMF has stated that he isn’t an experienced dirt rider. There is no doubt that the hard core dirt riders would not consider the GS is in the same ballpark as the 790. Look at the roads travelled in this report-purely a road rest where the KTM’s dirt qualities are not obvious. Forgetting about the overwhelming superiority of the KTM in the dirt, the KTM’s weight advantage alone would be enough to make it a winner. My motto is 2 cylinders = too much weight for a dirt bike so I could never go backwards to a GS/790/T700 Yam.
Hello DKW. Fair point. In this whole section of the market there is a (Cagiva) elephant in the room and some honest discussion would be interesting. In tarmac, private land Britain there are very very few places you can travel off-road for any distance. This current trend for 'adventure' bikes is akin to the 4X4 SUV boom of recent years in my view. It's more fashion and Walter Mitty than reality. I also believe that only a small percentage of motorcycle owners actually go touring in the real sense. So, comparing these 2 bikes in the way TMF has done is in my view more relevant and realistic than some of the comments suggest, if we are to be honest with ourselves.
I definitely think you are correct re these "adventure bikes" being the SUV's of the bike world. For most riders its a case of the fabled image of being in the outdoors and I "could do this" but in reality it hardly happens. Here in Australia, the 790 will be an overwhelming sales success as we are incredibly lucky to have many thousands of kilometres of geniune dirt roads/tracks. On my rides it is typical to not see a vehicle for 2 hours at a time and that is at a distance of only 400km from the Sydney CBD. I have owned "ADV" bikes from the 1200GSA's, progressing down through the unimpressive F800GS and now own a DR650 and KTM 500EXC, both converted to true ADV bikes. Any dirt bike more than 150kg dry weight is a liability in the dirt-hard to do U turns, fall over easily and impossible to pick up without help. Also these new bike are getting far too electrically complex in my book, always need the seat rebuilt and need a decent screen.
A winner just because weight less? And by the way,this are not "off road bikes", this are "adventure bikes. They are suitable for off road,but is noth the principal intended purpose. There is not perfect bike out there, they all have limitations. That the ktm is better off road? Off course! The same way the BMW is better off road! . I do own a BMW f850 adventure, and took a test ride yesterday in a ktm,and honestly, tje ktm will be 100 times better off road,bit that is it. Here in the states that you cover long distances all the time,the BMW is way way way better on the road,better wind protection, better electronics, better ergonomics, better lighting, and I'm not BMW biased, Mather of fact I will also buy a 790 for shorter trips.
randykawasaki couldn't agree more. 👍🏻Moreover if one is looking into the 790adv r to keep in on the road only, is either a poser that is planning to keep the bike parked in front of starbucks or someone about to buy the wrong bike for himself. The review is misleading in this sense.
@@scldma114 Lol, not misleading at all. Posing in front of starbucks wearing all the appropriately badged gear is EXACTLY where both of these moto's and their riders will be found.
If these bikes are loaners, crashing them on single track and getting handed a bill for 20,000 pounds is probably low on this dudes list. Where would it be on yours?
For means of practicality, ‘the ability to dispense with a white van’ has to be the main issue with any bike round your way. Marks out off 10 please? 😉 Bon weekend!
you should have titled your video, "what's the best for riding on the street?" The GS is much more of a Street bike. The 790R is much more of a Dirt bike. So to isolate a comparison of these bikes to either surface is a statement of the obvious. the real question is how would these bikes compare on a course of 50% Dirt & 50% street. That's what we need to understand.
The GS is for touring and folks that like to go sight seeing hanging out at the pub after a cozy ride. The KTM is for taking on true off-road adventures were there are no pubs . No comparison.
Well,I do have a 2019 BMW f850 adventure, un exactly the same configuration as the one in the video,and with respect to the transmission, is noticeable smoother now with 3000 miles on it.on the other hand,even when most people will compare this two bikes as in the same category, Me thinks they are not. The ktm was made as a big dirt bike that occasionally you can take on the road,and the BMW is a big touring bike that you can occasionally take off road.
@@tennyis28 well,that is what it is,I just took a ride on one of the first ones here,and that thing is small, I'm 6 ft tall,and my knees were complaining, it is too off road focused, in my opinion, maybe perfect for someone that wants loads of off road,but here in the states, with the long distances, it will not work for me,and the seat was made of rock!
@@12masterr says someone who doesn't own one, I ride mine on the road all the time and it carves the twisties and does 75-80mph no problem on the road, plus it will rip it up off road. I'm 5'11" and the bike is not "tiny" it's just not a wallowing road bike that pretends to be off road capable.
@@jimenagulla9081 did you read what I posted? I didn't say the ktm is a bad bike,I just said the ktm will be better offroad,and tje bmw will be better on the road,and I don't need to own one,I test ride it and is too cramped for me.
Yep, read your post and it's not accurate, you say it's a big dirt bike that can occasionally take on the road, this is false, you can't possibly know this from one test ride, your 1 inch taller than me and I'm not close to feeling cramped. These are things that a person can't know from one little test ride, do I really care what you like or think? He'll no, but your opinion is not based on an actual saddle time, and is misleading.
Put the KTM in Rally mode as it provides the most direct throttle response. Also, aftermarket screens can be bought for touring so would never base a decision of whether to buy a bike or not based on wind protection.
Hmm, so no real world testing here, just one man's opinion from some road riding... Other real world features I would love to have seen reviewed: Highway travelling - loaded and unloaded (with / without luggage) Wet weather behaviour Off road handling - loaded and unloaded (with / without luggage) Urban travelling - engine heat etc.. Recovery - how easy are these bikes to get upright when you're riding solo? Weight - yes, weight is everything in this class... Service intervals This review is probably more focussed at the BMW F850GS types who like many GS owners never, ever touch dirt with their bikes, whereas almost every KTM790 Adv R owner has purchased an off road capable adventure bike that can handle the black top too.. If you look at the KTM 790 Adv R videos here and the videos/photos on other social media platforms, the 790 Adv R's are always featured doing their thing off road, which is where this model will absolutely thrive and thrash the BMW F850GS No mention of the massive F750/850 recalls for replacement engines in 2018? This was due to the 100% Chinese made engines being like almost anything made in China: Substandard and cobbled together by US$10/day sweatshop drone type workers opposed to European craftsmen. BMW remedied this production/QC faux par and replaced the engines on affected units No mention of the KTM 790 Adventure issues like the [social media] reports of oil leaks, coolant leaks, blocked fuel filters and questionable fuel gauge accuracy, sure these have been resolved by the dealers, but they're worth a mention There are also reports of broken sumps and cracked casings from "normal off road riding" - two reports, one of each since the release, the majority of owners haven't had any of the two serious issues mentioned above, but thanks to social media, many do believe it was owner/rider issues and some believe they are "design flaws" - still well worth a mention Lastly, I would have never put the 790 Adv R up against the F850GS, the KTM 790 Adv "S" or standard model is the more realistic competitor to the mainly road orientated F850GS models, the 790 Adv R that you tested has Metzler Karroo 3 tyres, they are crap on the tarmac and very mediocre off road too The 790 S has Avon Trailrider tyres which are much more road orientated, crap off road and are more comparative to the tyres fitted to the F850GS So, a nice entertaining review , but I wouldn't say it was a realistic review as this was all done on asphalt which will certainly favour the F850GS, but in off road conditions you would have seen the 790 Adv R excel with it's fully tweakable suspension, albeit manually configured. This would also have clearly demonstrated the limitations of semi active [say: electronic] suspension (which I must add , I have on my big adventure bike, it works well for road use but has me wishing for much better/precise settings when riding off road) Thanks for the video, I enjoyed it.. and I will be following you..
Thanks for taking the time to write that lot down and share your opinion too - this is only my opinion on the bikes, I’m not saying it’s any more valid than anyone else’s! Thanks for watching - TMF
As an adventure machine, KTM's blow engines in dust. I had a 690 and now upgraded to the 850gsa. Bmw is the reliability you need in the bush. Also KTM fight every warranty claim, bmw come get the bike fix anything you want and drop the bike back off at your house.
Really? With all their adventure bikes and dirt bikes they "blow engines in the dust" I call Bull shit on that, and also the warranty crap, every KTM owner I've talked to has had nothing but positive things to say about the bikes and any warranty claims, nice try....
I think you missed the whole point of these bikes, off road capability? That’s the point of them, also the weight difference is far from marginal as you stated. I know a lot of people will not take the BMW off road but KTM will probably spend most of its life off road, also off road the KTMs 48mm front forks are on a different level, so is the travel and the ground clearance..
Exactly, kind of comparing Apple's to oranges, just because both bikes are in same segment (adventure )and similar engine size doesn't mean they are the same, the KTM is a beast off road, but i don't think there's much of that in England.oh well I'm not surprised he picked the BMW.
@@jimenagulla9081 exactly, , and curiously coz everybody who did a review of this bike said the suspension is a next level, like, so fck top, and he scored as 6/7 and worse than bmw? lolol
Thanks for this comment. Really disappointing to review adventure bikes with an off-road pedigree and not actually take them on to dirt!? Pointless review. I kept thinking I was missing some video footage.
I must agree. Very biased review. I think that KTM nailed the looks of the 790R. Very aggressive styling. The BMW however.. looks a little retarded tbh. Looks will always be subjective and in my opinion the scores he gave them should have been left off the total tally. Making the ktm the winner...
Without testing either Offroad, I feel like you really missed the point of owning one of these Adventure bikes ... this comparison is really for road users and not for a real Adventure Riders
It would be interesting to know what proportion of owners take ADV bikes off-road... I'd imagine the KTM would score higher than the BMW in this regard but neither will be a majority. I think the main advantages of these bikes (on road) are the high vantage point, wide bars, soft and comfy suspension, and ability to take pillions and luggage... then if you do see a trail (or a kerb you need to mount) you can have a little explore without binning your sports bike
Eoghan Hennessy I completely agree. That’s precisely why I bought the KTM 790 S model. I’m 95% pavement but also like the upright sitting and ergo you mention.
@@DifferentSpokesTV yes,I tried tje ktm,and feels like a big dirt bike,I'm 6ft,and my knees were bent like a banana, at 53 yo is uncomfortable for long rides, may be perhaps the perfect bike for around the world adventure, but here in the states, with the long distances to get anywhere, tje bmw is just perfect. Is heavier,bit also comes factory with center stand,fog light, stainless rack,stainless side racks and big adjustable windshield
I get ya. I ride a Moto Guzzi Stelvio which is neither the fastest or the most off-road worthy adventure bike, but it's the most comfortable and that's why I love it. Wouldn't hesitate to ride from Toronto to Alaska on it.
I own a 790R and the heated grips not being integrated is complete rubbish! You are spot on there. The BMW you tested was quite a bit more expensive than the KTM (over $4k in the US). The BMW's model you rode is $3600 more than the base model in the US so you really didn't compare what you rode to its cost. I think most people will find the electronic suspension worth the extra cash over the base model. Cheers
I looked at the BMW it was $7000 more than the KTM similarly equipped. You only did half a review, what about off road? I’m only on the road to get to the dirt. If you did an off-road review the KTM would win every category by a landslide. I knew the BMW would win your comparison on the street, everyone is afraid to compare the BMW to anything and say it didn’t win, lol. I’ve owned and ridden many BMW‘s and they are fine bikes, although over rated in my opinion. I have grown to hate riding off-road with people on BMW’s, whether the 1200 or any of the smaller bikes. BMW’s are not suited for off-road use. Too heavy and people are ALWAYS going down on them. I’ve had to stop and help pickup those beasts more times than I can count. Makes for a long slow day.
I know you don't like offroad, however a true comparison for these bikes needs to include an offroad test. Doesn't need to be through an enduro course but at least through some gravel or dirt.
Yes I already kinda figured all the stuff you mentioned like handling, suspension, brakes, YAWN..... yeah both are great. Why wouldn't they be. What I want to know is how does it feel?? You really must sit on them and test ride them to know, after riding the 850 GS and the 850 GSA (one has a larger tank) I decided that there is absolutely no difference from those bikes and the 1250 GS nor the 1250 GSA. The BMW 850 is totally useless with the 1250 GSA being for sale. Is the 850 really that much more versatile than the 1250? Nah, just has a bigger front wheel and so what. With that said, the KTM should be compared to the older BMW 800 or something. Price: who cares if you're buying one of these bikes, money is virtually no object and you should be paying cash with no hesitation. I really wish I knew what BMW is trying to do here with this 850?? I already have a 1200 GSA water boxer, so for my 6th bike, I will be going with this KTM 800, they have made some radical changes which I appreciate and off road worthy. And sorry don't mean to be rude, I speak my mind.
Hello sir, did you get a spray tan? Maybe in the UK these bikes won't see much off-road action and that's a crying shame for this type of motorcycle. It breaks my heart to continually see very serious motorcycles with the wrong tyres fitted. Here in Australia, the bulk of punters that buy this type of motorcycle want to get it out into the bush. What we know about these two bikes, is that the BM is a decent road bike (if a little over-priced) with decent enough off-road performance. The KTM on the other hand, is an outstanding off-road motorcycle (if a little over-priced), that has decent enough on-road manners. MPG is also a massive factor in choosing your next ADV. Luggage options etc. All the best.
I’ve owned an F 800 GS and preferred the Petrol Tank in the centre with Petrol cap at the back right side. This position gave the bike-amazing centre of gravity and easy fill when using tank bag. Both bikes have the two-cylinder Rotax engine, which is just absolutely Bullet proof. I found F 800 GS very easy to work on for general maintenace. The London Anti - Terror Police use the F series GS and I can understand why, since they are absolutely nimble in city traffic. The Israeli Yasam / Special Police Force also use the standard versions nothing modified F series GS.
And being "adventure" bikes is good to see you threw some gravel sections in there, with the odd river crossing and a mud - bath, to give the viewer a true sense of their multi-terrain capabilities...
Great review/comparison my friend! I actually just purchased the 790 Adventure standard version (not the R) and I must say that I love it! I was looking at the Beemer as well but my nearest BMW dealer is in Missoula, Montana which is about 4 hours from me. (I’m in Bozeman, MT). I did find your opinions on the aspects that you reviewed on the KTM to be spot on. Either way that’s 2 amazing bikes there!
This comparo is so weird!! No off-road topics? What kind of bikes are these? That alone would place KTM well ahead. Otherwise you are shopping for a road bike, then you have other non trail options. There is the price issue, where you have compared an equipped BMW with a standard KTM, and when it came to prices you did compare only basic versions! Really? But off road abilities is what sets these 2 bikes aside. There's no comparison here. KTM is orders of magnitude better then the BMW off-roading. So, my conclusion is: KTM is the winner because on-road they are equal, with KTM granting the user extra superb ability off road
Love this format! A good idea might be a summary screen near the end, that includes all the scores for every category. That way people can give weight to the category they prefer, cause brakes on adventure bikes aren't as important as comfort, while on superbikes it would be the other way round! Thanks again Mr Flyer!
Well, a full specs f850gsa has a 3.500 euro difference here in Greece from the 790R which in standard form misses only a couple of extras. The Beemer in standard form doesn't have ESA, TFT, and a load of other things that make it just bare compared to the Ktm. So a hands down win on price for the Katoom. Anyway, I liked the comparo! I think the BMW is a more on road adventure bike whereas the Ktm as usual, has a hardcore character and a very sporty ride. I ve ridden both. I would be torn If I had to chose.
Adventure riding, not in my comfort zone. I rode very bad asphalt roads, a few light gravel roads and that's it. I did that on the Suzuki V-Strom 650. I try to avoid very bad roads on my sport touring Honda cbf1000. For me, comfort, weather protection are most important. Therefore I automatically choose the bmw.
That was a really helpful review. BUT.... anyone watching, I encourage you to ride them both and consider your own assessments. I used the same scoring matrix (thanks TMF) and the BMW was a clear winner for me, personally. The electronics, looks, comfort and gearbox were clear winners for my personal preference. I originally went to purchase the KTM and ended up buying the 850GSA on the spot, after riding these 2 and the 1250.
I'd encourage anyone to ride the bikes they're interested in before committing - these reviews are only one persons opinion (in this case mine of course) and who's to say I'm right...I'm no expert other than I've ridden a lot of bikes.
Many compare the 790 ADV to the Tenere 700, but it's also comparable to the Tiger 800/900 and F800GS/F850GS. In those latter comparisons, the 790 is considerably lighter and suited for use on dirt. It's great to see more competition in the sub-liter adv motos. I hope they don't size or price themselves out of the class. The 450lb Tenere with just ABS, at $10K US, is a step in the right direction.
I'm 5'7" and after sitting on them, the Triumph Tiger 800 is well suited to shorter riders. BMW and KTM are taller than I would like, but Tiger, I can touch the floor easier. I also have longer legs than torso, so my inseam is longer than some other shorter riders if that helps
You’d be in good company. RyanF9 from Fort Nine Canada reviews his own BMW F800GS Adventure ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tutdLZ0WqX0.html
I bought a new 2020 KTM 790 Adventure S about 5 weeks ago. I paid a total (included tax and tags) for $9,999,00. I live in Washington D.C.USA. The only extras I will purchase soon will be the Hard Panniers and possibly add quick shifter and the rally app at some point. Otherwise I feel I got a terrific price. Because of lousy weather (Cold/Snow) it still only has less then 10 miles on the odometer, haha. Gawd I hope the weather improves soon. I also own 2016 Motto Guzzi V7II Stone and a 2015 Harely Super Low 1200T.
The R version of the KTM is really for off road where it will leave the BMW in the dust or mud. You maybe should have reviewed the S version. Also lower and bigger screen. I doubt you'd pick the Beemer up if you dropped it off road where as the KTM you would as it is so much lighter. I should imagine the Beemer is much more top heavy especially with a full fuel tank on top. It's a pity you couldn't test these bikes off road where as I say I think the KTM would have been a clear winner. By the way the KTM has lean sensitive ABS as well. Don't know if the Beemer does. Good basic summary of each bike. KTM are bringing out the R Rally Plus next year.
Nice review sir, surely these are 3/4 weight machines rather mid weight, anyway would like to know price as tested, I bet there's a few more ££'s in the BMW.
Without riding both of these bikes off road, the comparison is somewhat flawed, especially as the pitch by KTM is very much off-road focused and would destroy the BMW GS in this areana. If you only ride on Sundays or a Starbucks jokey, then it's a good comparison.
I can’t possibly think of a more enjoyable job than yours. As for those bikes.......? My pick would be the Tiger 800 xCA, due to the “wow” factor for me. All these machines these days are superb. I like this format of head to head comparison.
As a 'seasoned citizen" I have noted that the seat height of the KTM Adventures which I have looked at is a factor which completely eliminates them from my personal consideration; others may not mind the height so much.
Great job on the comparison however, you didn’t tackle the issue about reliability. I’ve heard the KTM suffer from lots of issues. Can’t wait until you do a review of the Yamaha Tenere 700.
I heard the World is flat, many people say it all over the internet? Seriously, how can he cover realiability of two bikes just intruduced in the market?
@@TheMissendenFlyer really like the format though, always think you have good reasoning around the bikes. You holding the XSR900 in such a high esteem tipped the scales for that one for me last year 😎
These are both Adventure bikes when I last looked not asphalt tourers! Spend a 1000 miles adventuring on varied outback terrain on each and you’ll know on day one already who the clear winner is. The beemer is not even close.
I totally agree that in purchasing either bike, it comes down to personal preference. Over the long term for me, the extra wind protection of the BMW which makes it more suitable for touring and highway riding would be the difference maker
TheMissendenFlyer with all due respect, a more appropriate comparison would have been the GS850A and your own GS1200, both more road oriented touring bikes. Can I safely assume you would have had access to those two bikes?
Hello Mr Flyer! Long time viewer, first time commenter. I really enjoy your tests of new motorcycles, especially ones I find myself drawn to. I want to comment on something that is really critical to me. Very few testers share their observations about a bike’s suspension feel and adjustability, if available. For example, I recently rewatched your long term review of the KTM 790 Duke. Some KTMs are interesting to me and I wanted to know what your thoughts were about the non-adjustable front suspension. Not a word. I owned a KTM 990 SMT some years ago and loved it. However, it had a fully (manually) adjustable front and rear suspension. Adjustments made a huge difference. I have low confidence in non-adjustable suspension. Would you endevour to comment on this topic in the future please? Thank you and keep up the good work. Peter
Yes it was of some interest Mr Flyer! And that was before I glanced to the wall and saw that electro-acoustic which looks similar to my trusty dark blue Yamaha! We have the best hobbies friend! Thumbs up!
I wanted to test the R version of the 790 and they give me the S.. you wanted the S and you got the R! Testing the R later in the year, I even took the S model off-road in my review.. sort it out TMF 😂
I recently upgraded from the BMW F800GS to F850GS (standard version with upgraded package, TFT, dynamic suspension etc). So far I am very impressed, especially with the engine. I am a triumph fan and the tiger 800 was an option, however the engine in the BMW was the difference for me.
Remembering that the F750/850 engines are not German. They are 100% Chinese made and BMW no longer deserves to be branded as German made bikes as there is almost zero German content in the engine, with the exception of the design and many of the bike's components are 100% Chinese made too.. I love BMWs but lost all respect for the marque when BMW outsourced a vast majority of their motorcycle parts to China, then we had the assembly/QC issues last year that resulted in a mentionable quantity of F750/850s having total engine replacements due to shoddy Chinese workmanship (or lack of workmanship) and of course the Chinese made and assembled R1200GS-A spoked wheels collapsing during road use too.. At least Apple state "Designed in the USA, made in China" on their products, BMW Motorrad should do the same so owners know they are paying premium prices for a bike made in a country that pisses on human rights and pays slave wages to those who are making and assembling these bikes that cost more than these Chinese workers earn in a year! Yes, it's principle and supporting companies and brands that prop up despotic communist countries at the cost of the European workforce and to increase profits should be called out for their lack of ethics
bigmankz , yes the triumph engine is smooth and very nice especially at low speeds in town compared to BMW850gs. As I previously said, I am a fan of triumph engines having previously had one. I test rode both the tiger 800 XRT and the BMWF850GS and I really liked both bikes. I did find the 850 engine had that little bit more torque/grunt at normal speeds and BMW in the Rally colours with the optional extras, ended up giving me the best package for my needs. Everything is subjective and we all perceive things in different ways so I respect different opinions.
Cruise control, tft screen, satnav all of those are expensive extras in the bmw at least in my market, same for the fancy rear suspension and some others. Overall KTM offers much more as a stock bike.
Did I miss any mention of warranty or dependability? That would definitely be a consideration for me on every bike. Thanks again for your comprehensive and informative videos, Flyer. Cheers!
Had the old F800GS A. Hated it. Only reason for these bikes for me is if you actually use them off road. For road riding or touring there are many better options. Both of these hit every branch on the ugly tree falling to earth too. Surely they can both do better in how they look? Horses for courses I suppose, just not mine.
Good comparison indeed of two gorgeous machines! I ride the standard F850GS Rallye and I would rather compare that to the lighter and faster KTM. Outside the petrol tank and the suspension there is not that much difference. I can ride 300 to 360 kms on one tank full of gas and that never gives me any trouble. Besides that I like the weight and the looks of the F850GS better than the GSA.
Glad the white van made an early appearance so we could sit down and relax through the video. I have to say I really hope you enjoyed the complexities of making these as I for one really enjoyed the comparison and we'll done for remembering what you said and felt about each bike as you rode the other, especially as I guess you did not have them at the same time? Great stuff and want more comparisons like this definitely. Hope you elbow gets better soonest :-)
Correct - I had these in consequetive fortnights - I had to plan the sections in advance and note what I said about the first before riding the second...was quite complicated to do!
Good review overall, although I don’t understand your scoring on gearbox. Both have quick shifter, and you said both BMW and KTM worked well, so it doesn’t make sense to score KTM at 9 and BMW at 7. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Eoghan - quite difficult for me to do because I don’t really have much say over exactly what bike I can have when alas....occasionally it sort of works!
I have same problem with Vans, Lorries and people doing 40 in a 60.... I am surprised / disappointed there was not a how easy is it to clean category :D
What a nice idea with this comparison test, like to see more of them.👍 Of course it's not too objective, but who cares ? It's TMF's view, that's all right. What's missing: white van, terms like "clunkiness" or "agricultural". Like it. Edit: I commented before seeing the end card. White van - ✔️
The base BMW 850GS actually sold for less than KTM ADV R in the US, it included some things people say are extras, sans ESA of course. Your experiences may vary. KTM 790 ADVR is not in stock at the locations i've frequented by comparison.
Good Video like always i own a KTM 790 adventure and have a KTM 890 Adventure in order for december i don't like the front i order a Baja type light :) other then that it rock! Orange is the new Black ..lol
Sorry not sorry. But the KTM 790 S is probably the best Adventure Motorcycle on the market at the moment. I do not own one, yet. But I did test ride one. Excellent. Won't go into all its attributes here for there are many YT videos that do such. As with all mid weight Adventure bikes it is not inexpensive to purchase. But, IMO, it is worth the cost compared to others in its class. The R model is basically engineered to be an Off Road Motorcycle whereas the S model is primarily engineered as a perfect comprimise between "Off Road and " On Road". I will be purchasing the S model as soon as I am able. just saying
TMF, get that youtube email Info fixed, please! I missed that vlog now for HOURS! Thanks for that, I was so looking forwards to it - and there is no disappointment, as ever! Cheers, Tim
're. The price comparison, doesn't the base price for the bmw include.... nothing? If you want the esa etc,you need to upgrade. So not sure how they won on price
@@12masterr that's kinda my point about the bmw.... If you can't buy it cos they don't sell it, why use the price for a comparison? You buy a ktm, you get the bike.... don't have to go through a secondary design process to ensure you get all the parts you want like you do with a new. The price comparison is this: Go to ktm with the listed price and ride away on a bike. Go to bmw and you are told you can't buy the bike
View from the cockpit the BMW looks a proper bike nice wide tank, screen and mirrors, KTM I'm sorry dosent look great mirrors awful small screen and orange yuk, thanks TMF.
@@suezix8689 Tell what? I used to own the 790. I got rid of it. Try riding a bike if you have one 500 miles a day for 1 week. You'll know what street comfort means. Don't try to be a smart ass. Nobody likes it.
@@cassin11 And you think street comfort only applies to 500 miles per day in the saddle for one or 67 weeks? 'Street' means asphalt, nothing in it about distance. I'd much rather do 30 miles on the 790R than the R6, even though the latter is a road bike with no offroading credentials whatever. And of course, the very same applies if I have to do 500 miles per days for a week. So yeah, the 790R or the T7 or any 'offroad-biased' bike provide street comfort. Funny enough, I know it for a fact.
@@cassin11 But let's go to the end of your logic. Because they are offroad biased he should test them offroad. Only he's never done offroad. So he's going to ride them on terrain that even an R1 can tackle, at any rate any naked bike. So you and a lot more up-in-armers will laugh at his effort (to appease you) for not being a born Dakar rider. In this light, what good does it do to ask him what he can't do well enough? Are you saying he should not ride these bikes full stop? He's not allowed? He mustn't be allowed to ride them only on road and give his opinion? He's one of the very few to have tested these bikes (est the KTM) solely on road. Everybody else tested them just the way you want, just look around on RU-vid and allow a man to use a bike the way he wants. That'd be smart.
I can't give a thumbs up, or even say good job, though I appreciate the comparison. KTM designed the 790 to be the best Adventure bike and that means off road. And, this is BMW's best off road Adv bike. With no off road comparison, this test means almost nothing to most of us.
Another excellent review 👏 if i may suggest both of these bikes are great! having riden the KTM it is its ease of moving around in a garage etc that would be the huge points winner over the BMW, its one of the easiest bikes to move there is, that matters, i actually purchased a KTM over a BMW for this reason alone as i have very limited space. I fancy a change maybe to the BMW now though, as a long term KTM user wind buffet at speed is an issue, as the KTM is so light, on motorway journeys it does bother me when passing a lorry or in high winds, that is where the BMW is a big points winner in my view and one of the reasons i am considering a change all other things you mentioned were fair
Though I'm 100% on-road, I'm looking at ADV bikes because I ride year-round in all weather (in NJ, USA). For me, the Triumph Tiger 800 XRx beats both of these as a "bad weather bike" (my "good weather bike" is a Triumph Speed Triple, so I admit I'm biased towards Triumphs and the triple engine). Your comparison is unfair because the KTM targets a different niche than the BMW, and you didn't take either bike off-road in this review. No worries though, people in this market know what they want and will collect info from many other reviews before making a well-informed decision, so your particular perspectives add to this mix -- much appreciated! My current "bad weather bike" is a 2008 1203 cc Buell XB12X Ulysses (my first bike), which suits me perfectly, but it is beginning to wear out, replacement parts are getting difficult to find, and I think a lighter "bad weather bike" would be better for my purposes. When the time comes to pull the trigger on a Tiger 800, I'll survey the marketplace again, including all the Japanese offerings, just to make sure I'm not missing something good. One important factor to consider that is difficult to evaluate in these generic reviews for the whole world is serviceability over the lifetime of the bike. This will vary a great deal depending on your particular location. As the years go by, I'm less inclined towards tinkering, I want to have dealerships with authorized service shops nearby, and the model of bike should be well-established in order for parts to be available for many years to come. My Speed Triple has worked out very well in this regard -- I bought it new in 2009 from a nearby dealership, they still treated it like I just got it yesterday when I recently brought it in for scheduled maintenance, and all parts are still readily available. I've been less fortunate with the Buell, which I must tinker with myself since H-D killed the brand, and it takes work and luck just to find needed parts, as in the used marketplace on eBay.
Were all those electronic doo-dads included in that base price on the BMW? That might swing your score in favour of the KTM. (Although the BM would always win because any bike with gold wheels is clearly the best!)
Yes there should have been a “does it have gold wheels category?”.....and your implication is correct, the electronic doodads are extras on the BMW....
Would still be interested to know the price of the BMW as tested vs the base price as when you compared the price to the KTM as tested. I am aware bmw asks a lot to spec a bike out like that but don’t know the price difference of the 850 adventure
I bought a tiger 800 xrx, probably the best middle weight adventure bike. Having said that, I now run a NC 750 X and absolutely love it, because it's practical, fuel economy is amazing, all for 2 3rds of the price of the tiger.
For me, the new Yamaha 700 Tenere does all of this for a lot less money so long as not having all the electronic aids doesn't make you suck your thumb while rocking in the corner. The Yamaha sounds like it has mastered the compromise at being very good on and off road and very attractively priced. Watch out BMW, KTM & Triumph.
Spot on - excellent synopsis; I think if you're doing more off-road stuff? the KTM pips it, but I prefer the BMW - all down to personal choice on this one.
My bike went in to have the TPM sensor replaced today and I ended up getting a F850gs with all the bells and whistles (including TFT) as a loaner for the day. I used to own a F800gs Adventure a few years ago, so was looking forward to riding the new model, although in non Adventure spec. The new model is a definite upgrade to the old bike, especially concerning the gearbox and motor which I found to be smooth as butter. The quick shifter works even better than the one on my R1200gs Rallye 2017. Most of the issues I had with the previous model were fixed, but a few were not and left me rather disappointed. The new model is no longer as easy to commute with due to the change in how the new motor delivers its power below 4,000 rpms. The gear ratios from 3rd was however massively improved. Fuel efficiency is still great and I averaged 4.0l/100kms on my 250km ride. The small screen was still unliked but can be easily fixed with after market accessories. While still at the dealer I looked at the Adventure in Rallye colours, and absolute stunner! However, what annoyed me to no end, and needs urgent attention by the German engineers at BMW, was the dive from the front suspension under braking. It is so bad that, even though the bike has linked suspension, I ended up manually modulating the rear brake to keep the front from losing all dignity when braking. It feels not much better than the G310gs in this regard. What also requires urgent attention relates to the TFT screen. There is no dedicated fuel level indicator. You have to decide whether you want that info, or your trip meters or your odo, or any of the other multitude of options on your main display, and there are plenty of options, 15 I think. If you decide to leave all of these options enabled, you’re left with a 1 minute long press of the menu button to get to the previous displayed option (you can only cycle one way through all the menu options for that single line that shows you your fuel gauge). The TFT effectively provides you with less at-a-glance information that the old display offered, unless you’re on a boring stretch of road and want to cycle through to the other menu screens. I also use a Navigator, but it is set to display additional information I see as essential below the map, and for me to get all the info I want it is essential that the main bike’s display does not reduce the info it provides. Maybe I have OCD, but if you decide to do something, at least try to do it well which primarily means each change you make must be an improvement. The last annoyance I had was with the foot pegs. BMW should have figured out that the F850gs will be ridden by riders that want to stand every now and again, yet they still fitted pegs they had on the F650gs Dakar 18 years ago. Sure you can buy after market wider pegs, but that means chucking these junk ones in the bin and just how environmentally friendly is that (can’t think of anyone who’d want these for free). So, the German engineers that designed this bike are the same that designed the R-gs (if they weren’t it explains most of my questions). They knew the front suspension on the F800 needed fixing, yet they made it worse (presumably to aid comfort on bad dirt roads, which explains that, the 21” front wheel and the small screen but not why they then decided on those foot pegs if the bike’s suspension was primarily designed for off road road trips). I honestly don’t get what their design direction was. Sure, the F750 was designed for commuting, that makes sense, but on the F850 where they also increased the weight of the bike substantially? I want BMW to make a great mid sized adventure motorcycle, I honestly do, but this F850gs is only a good bike in a sea of other good bikes and in the market place you need to set yourself apart from the competition by offering something spectacular that your customers want and are willing to pay for.
I know you said what the base price was but what were the prices of the bikes you had, with all the extras on? (btw audio sync goes a bit off in the summary at the end)
Sadly I don’t know - both these bikes were loaned direct from the manufacturers and (oddly) they seldom tell you the full spec of the bike they lend you...or give you a manual...bit of an adventure finding out what you have on your hands!!
