Context in the comments, because it'll take me a while to film a reaction. @6:12 - Ephraim Shay developed the Shay locomotive in the 1880's, and they produced thousands of them. The distinguishing and patented features of the shay locomotive was the side mounted drive shaft and the gearing on the trucks. However, Lima wasn't the best at ensuring that they were current with all the innovations that were available as time progressed. By the year 1920, superheaters, piston valves, Walshaert's valve gear and other steam locomotive devices were common place on Main line steam locomotives, but they were not common place on Shay locomotives. Because the patent on the Shay's unique design had expired, the Willamette Iron and Steel works in Oregon decided that they could produce a better shay than Lima could, and started producing "shay clones", called Willamettes. Willamettes has piston valves, walshaert's valve gear, superheating, and other improvements. It is reported that Lima was so scared of the competition that they immediately began working on the Pacific Coast Shay in response. In total, only 33 (ish) were ever produced and distributed, and Willamette stopped because they couldn't commit to being a competitor of Shay and build locomotives. @17:10 - The efficacy of switchbacks vs super steep hills The problem with the way that the switchback system that is implemented on the CR&P is they sort of have it backwards. Typically, the shortest route to any industry is via switchback and the steepest track that you could get away with, and if you wanted gentler grades you would use a continuous track and bridges that took a much longer route. The way in which switchbacks make more sense is if you look at their prototypical trade offs. Either you have one line that is very long and runs at 2%, or you install a switchback system that goes up 10% but cuts your length by 5 times. i.e. Hyce's route would be at 3% max with faster locomotives, and kAN's switchbacks would run at 8% with geared locomotives for increased tractive effort. A prototypical example is the Roaring Camp and Big Trees railroad in California. They had a large balloon loop trestle system when they originally built the line, unfortunately a fire destroyed it and they were forced to build a switchback system to replace that portion of the line. The balloon loop was nearly a mile in length, and they replaced it with a few hundred feet of train track at a 10% (ish) grade. Additionally, logging railroads typically were built as cheaply as possible, because all of the trackage was temporary, and switch backs make sense because you don't need to produce bridges. @19:20 - Some locomotives have the crown sheet line marked on the backhead of the boiler, and some were a lot more sophisticated. By the end of the steam era they had both Low Level Water alarms, and High Level Water alarms that could be installed on steam locomotives. There was an audible alarm that sounded when you got close to exposing the crownsheet.
"...the Climax is the most stable locomotive downhill." Your music has something to say about that, sir. Always a good episode when we get some Hyce yelps!
Just started watching the video and I'm here for a prediction. Kan won't have a helper to tell him when he is past the switch and to flick it which will alter his time and thus need a rematch time trial with both routes being tested with two man teams. Edit: With 5 cars 10% won. I still want to see how many cars makes the switchback worth it and have the race done time trial style as that would be more representative of standard operating conditions.
This exactly. They should do the math for the switchbacks and max out a train on it. They should then use a equal train on the 10% and see how long it takes to section it out and take it up.
Yeah, two-man ops and time-trial format would make including the first leg of the real trip (ie lumber mill to smelter and vice versa, with loading included) possible, make the switches on the switchbacks less painful to operate, and allow returning the helper engine to be done simultaneously with unloading the cargo. Much more representative of real intended conditions. Ofc it does open up opportunities for sabotage shenanigans, but I think both are genuinely curious enough to not let that go too far.
Equal loads... but not equal tractive effort! EDIT: Yes, the Shay was created and patented by Ephriam(sp?) Shay sometime in the early nineteen-teens, I believe? (Don't quote me on that, it's been a hot minute since I studied that period of locomotive history.)
Switch the I and the a around and you spelt it correct Also, Mr. Shay had one hell of a career. Entrepreneur, merchant, self-taught railroad engineer, boat builder, water works designer and operator, architect, and he even built his own hexagon house! Boy, did he experience life and then some!
Well it actually is quite equal to class 48 has a lot of torque and power but not top speed walk number has less torque and power but a higher top speed
What was the name of the “cousin” of the Shay that made all the improvements? Tried looking it up based on the name spoken, but google refuses to show anything dealing with trains at all even with “locomotive”, “train”, or “steam engine” attached to it… very annoying. I’d never heard of them before, so was hoping I could find some old photographs that I could do a comparison with. Kind of sad how many locomotives like that are not reflected in games or model railroading unless they’re scratch built at home after years of collecting blueprints and rare photographs. You’d think they’d be better known from the history they provide, but are instead forgotten. Interesting nugget: there are a pair of 2-2-2 class locomotives off the east coast and were featured on an episode of “Deep Sea Detectives” with John Chatterton and Richie Kholer that they were able to research and found had been made with new experimental technology at the time… but since they were lost at sea, the company and the railroad both went belly up and it was lost. Tech they now think could’ve completely changed railroading history entirely from 1855 on had they not been lost at sea.
Kan sounded like such a little kid when he was telling Hyce about the Train Furious movie idea. Sometimes you forget that he’s an adult and engaged. 🤣 Love these RRO videos, always brightens up my day.
Fun fact, in addition to Lima and Williamette, there were also some Baldwin shays and a very short production of Henderson Shays (which were much closer in appearance to a Heisler). The largest blueprints by Lima, but never built, had 20 drivers. Some 16 driver Class Ds were built, it was mostly an extended tender on the back. Another 16 driver concept had pistons placed on both sides.
@sumplais The designs I saw were technically three truck. 4 sets in two main trucks and another 2 sets in a rear tender truck Edit: rewrite for clarity Additional edit: why do shays count drivers individually instead of pairs like normal steam locos?
I'm very interested in the blue prints you saw are they available on line or prints for sale? I have the builders drawing of the WM big six Shay. Would love to have one of those what if prints.
@@BurnedBaconGaming I've ever only heard the geared engines being rated by number of power trucks. Four being the largest Shay made for the Western Maryland as an oil burner, and I believe she crashed at Cass as they had a oil line come apart, slicked the rails down, and took off as a virtual runaway and over the mountain she went.
@Brenda Brunner-Jackson they are not as far as I am aware. I attempted to look for it but I could not find it. I did find the 4 truck with front and back tender though if you want a pic of that one. It looks like just concept level from the Lima drawings
15:40 - Yep, that's why many trains (at least in the UK) had the helper (banking loco) at the rear, it could just slow to a stop after the top. 24:40 - The train version of the game Sprocket!
I would still love an episode where Hyce and kAN would just go through the buy menu and talk about the locomotives, showcase how they work vs each other and such. Kind of be a guide (of this point in time) to what is what with them. Plus… would be nice to just get a good look over of them all, heh. Like, why the 0-4-0 porter is “better” than the 0-4-2 and why the 2-8-0 has no brakes vs the Glenbrook having air brakes and so forth.
As a followup to Hyce's and kAN's "Chuffs & Furious" and "Chuffs & Furious 2: Back On Track", I'd like to pitch two sequels. "Chuffs & Furious 3: Underground", in which New York subway is revealed to be an arena for illegal train races. Heavily modified trains equipped with insane weapons such as mechanical axes, rotary blades, pneumatic hammers, deployable derail blocks, and others, compete to be the last surviving one for a grand prize. And "Chuffs & Furious 4: Fatherland" that takes us back to Europe of 1940s and tells a story of a crew of a ragtag group of underdogs whom fate made to stand up against the most evil man in train history: Adolf Hitler, also known as Maschinenführer.
The mid-roll ad started right in the middle of Hyce's scream when he derailed the Climax on the 6.5% and I've never been this happy to have an ad cut something off.
Heeeey, shout out from West Virginia! Cass was where I got my first ever cab ride in a steam locomotive as a kid, I think it was that moment that locked in my love for steam forever.
Yep, the WV Pulp and Paper route is the Cass Scenic Railroad of today, two switchbacks to get up to the top of the mountain. Though at that time, the cars were taken up unloaded of course, and brought back down loaded. So today with the passenger cars, the Shays have to work harder than they ever did, they are even double headed on fall trips due to passenger weight. Quite a sight and highly recommend a visit to anyone who can attend.
The first ever Shay was built and patented by Ephraim Shay. It was a flatbed logging car that an improvised cab was mounted along with a secondhand boiler. The pistons were mounted on the sides with a singular driveshaft that connected all the wheels together.
There is also the terrifying picture of thr steam engine after an explosion of where 90% of the boiler of is missing and you see the spaghetti of death of the tube hanging out in the open
If you want to see how a potential train racing story would look like, check out "Densha De D", a parody of "Initial D" except instead of racing cars in Japan the characters are racing Japanese trains after hours when there's no traffic on the mainline (at least in that universe). It's both a comic and a game!
When kAN was talking about a locomotive race, it reminded me of a animated locomotive race video on youtube that keeps on getting back in my recommended feed
Hey Hyce, currently following up on the playlist, hence me commenting here. On the topic of steam train races, theres a short film called "Steam Speed" by Digital Light Studio. Fits really well imo.
At 23:00 talking about blowing up the boiler to go faster. You guys forgot to mention the “Back To The Future 3” scene they did with the same idea just with different logs to make the train go faster.
There was a failure like this 1977 in Bitterfeld in Germany. They had so little water the backsheet could head up. Hey breaked, all the water went to the front and when it flowed back again it exploded, killing the crew and 5 more people at the trainstation. The boiler went nearly 40m
on the movie idea, hear me out. gasoline doesen't explode when heated, only when it sparks. so you take a locomotive and use gas instead of water, don't think about the lack of steam generation. And then the blowdowns have a lignighter so that they act as afterburners in jet engines. Boom, speed.
"But I got all the speed which is probably actually going to be a problem" Hyce 2023 Also, I just learned I've been pronouncing "Willamette" wrong this whole time.
Given the intersection of the line between the switchback and the 10% grade, I am willing to bet there’s going to be more than one P in a cup scenario, hyce & kan gaming & here why crashing into each other at the intersection if you both make it to the intersection at the same time you both be crashing into each other if you’re going full speed, and ask regardless of train etiquette 😅 I just have a feeling that it’ll happen sooner or later
The thing about the 10% line is that technically, you don't have a limit as to how long your train can be. The switchbacks have the limitation of the size of the heads, so if you have like 14 Climax then you will be easily doing more on the 10%. The 10% will also far more effective than usual until the speed limits are proper removed, as then you get the benefit of more speed up the 2%. There were also a few things left out in this race. If you play for longer than one load, the 10% will always be faster (about double by these results), as you must go back down the switchbacks to return for another load, and the helper engine will be brought back with the road engine. As far as running one load, they will be the same (thanks to the low speed of the Climax), but the moment that you run multiple loads, the 10% will always be faster, at double the speed.
I'm just going to point out the Engines are still facing the opposite direction at the end of the video similarly to how they were facing at the start of the video.
As far as I can remember Matt H. Shay was the inventor of the Shay locomotive ,a 4 cylinder version was the largest I ever saw but just before he died he supposedly had a 6 cylinder version on the drawing board, and I thought my god what for, and it was for a railroad in south america in the andes, that's all I remember
Also the locomotives at the CASS SCENIC Railroad are all wheel drive including the wheels on the tender and were made for logging in the mountains and also have small wheels cause the small wheels provide more torque for pulling heavy loads and the drive shafts are on the outside with gears that drive the wheels for extra pull.
I got a talking subject, What happens when a derailment results in small fire that heats a tanker? Would they open the tanker and burn the contents to relieve pressure if it's something like vinyl chloride? Follow-up, do you or Kan know about the East Palestine Ohio derailment?
That was my fun fact - The West Virginia Pulp and Paper company -> Mower Lumber Company -> Cass Scenic Railway. And to be honest, they used, and still are using, three truck shays, not the two truck that are in the game, Can I use that epitaph? "What in the physics?!" Suggested movies - "End of the Line" with Kevin Bacon and Wilford Brimley and "The Train" starring Burt Lancaster. and "Tough Guys" with Burth Lancaster and Kirk Douglas.
Is there a thing called a reverse hump? e.g. you kick a wagon along length of track and then it goes up a ramp to stop and then roll back onto another track after throwing a switch, as i made something like this at the coal mine to reposition the caboose/waycar at the end of the train, although I now use the double cabeese(?) method
right when i'm thinking of binging this series so far a new video comes out. and if you wanted it realistic the helper would already be there waiting to hook up.
Kan, dom pulled the vaccum hose off the turbo in that scene, which forced the waste gate to work just with spring pressure, its sorta kinda spmething that might work if your waste gate spring is way over rated but chances are higher your just going to surge the crap out of your turbo and make it explode XD you would get more power for like 5 seconds. It's one of those casses where the movie got it sorta kinda right
I've had the ballistic rerail yeet bug for awhile. It's something like you're in the way right at the same time the train is being rerailed and the game says you stay and the train absolutely should not be where you are. I've punted a 2-6-0 across the smelter valley (not down it towards the iron mine, but across, so not a huge distance) a handful of times. That being said, you need to bug Kyumei in adding a "recall" command for all trains, tenders, and cars that are not currently on a track. Imagine if you had clicked wrong and lost the rerail. . . . See, we absolutely need to screw reality on this one and have a recall command to bring back our company's assets the physics engine took from us.
kAN said 3 wheel car (as if that is something no one would want) and yet there are plenty of 3 wheel cars currently available. Most electric and all efficient. Arcimodo, ElectraMeccanica solo, and the Aptera are the big ones I know of. (technically Aptera isn't yet available they expect to have major production started by the end of this year)
fast and furious with trains has to have some great lines that make no sense. like "No wonder you lost, you were granny firing when you should have been double steaming"
LMAO! Hyce... your hubris has no limit. I think you should just name your whole series "Smells Like Kenosha". :p But I can't stand it, I think I actually love watching you two play RO! than I'd enjoy playing it myself! So much mayhem! So many... creative... solutions! ...to problems that... wouldn't otherwise have existed! XD
It is a funny comparison between the 2 systems when thure a bit more "balanced out" between them. So instead of the direct route bring easy it's more of a struggle bus ride and instead of the tedious switch back being an unholy grade like in real life it's actually more reasonable so it's fun to watch for certain. I loved seeing your perspectives after first hearing it on kAN channel as I just had to se you bin it. I also really want to know your opinions on the Mosca because before the winter update it looked to be an excellent steam engine for it's price but now it's been nerfed so much I think even the Glenbrook is a better hauler, especially as the grades increase but do let us know in future videos
So you wanna do a steam version of Densha de D (basically its Initial D but with trains) Except for the steam thing, it is exactly as kAN describes, street racers but dressed as train drivers, talking straight up seriously about racing trains 🤣🤣 (for people who don't know this is the origin of the multi-track drifting meme) I actually tried to make the Heisler run with each truck on a different track, but of course Ro! won't let me have that much fun 🤣 And a shoutout to Redline! Really fun movie :D Also with the race, although technically with longer trains switchbacks would be faster, that is only if the amount of helpers used remains the one Climax. However, logically you would have several helpers ready at the bottom to deal with longer trains anyway, as even with the 10% being such an extreme alignment as it is, the original plan was always to have enough helper engines to do the hill all in one go. I can't wait until you recreate the awesome depiction I found of a D&RGW train crossing Soldier summit, 4 locomotives in front pulling and one locomotive at the back pushing. Would be a (Rio) grand(e) thing to see on the CRAP! 😁
If you think about it and Jan makes the switch back longer and fixes it you can run two trains at a time because you can do the switch back with only one person and haul more tons
Me listening to Kan talking about a steam train version of “Fast and Furious” and remembering what i do with my model trains: *dying of laughter silently as to not disrupt the people at the place im at* also me: *hears “Smells Like Kenosha” ATTENTION SPAN GO PAST MAX SPAN!!!!!!!*
Sooooooo...... I think, to really do this test fairly, you would need a 2 man crew on both trains and you really ought to time yourselves round trip and go from there. And I believe the switch back ends are called tails.
5550 We need a movie where the aliens are tracking the power grid, you can't run any cars or planes to get the protagonist and soldiers from DC to New York. So the solution is to call the T1 trust and highball up the Northeast Corridor.
ok folks here's Da Rulez! 15 Car Trains to the Coal Mine 1 routed via the Switchback 1 up the 10% with the helper. Equipment. both trains will have the same power = Class 48 Goats. 15x Flatcars with loads for the Coal Mine. Helper as located in the shed for the 10% Crew Driver + Brakeman on each train. Guidelines for Race both trains will start from the Smelter following the pickup of rails and proceed to their route lining switches as required. first train to unload at the mine wins! Derailments will count against your time at 10 seconds for each piece of equipment needing re-railed with time penalty applied at the finish. a 15 car train will require Doubling the 10% grade but the Climax and Goat should be good for at least half that in one go. the Goat should be good for an unassisted ascent up the 2% Switchback with it's train. position of helper is not contingent on victory aside from being upright and on the active tracks.
![What's faster? 10% grade, or SWITCHBACKS? Today, we find out... [RO!]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
