WHAT'S GOING WRONG WITH AIKIDO? (Also, tenkan is NOT a sweep!) 

Thanks for engaging George, big admirer of your work. I feel we are reaching the point of no return now whereby the perceived "technical upline" is nothing more than a glorified MLM system creating income for a few, struggling to keep the family business alive. This art has so much to offer but not if at it's core it's based upon delusion and falsehoods.

Good to see another 'senior rank" agreeing George. So much utter nonsense beings trained now, and a lot is coming out of japan unfortunately and being ratified by rank. We are def seeing a bit of a "modified Aikido" revolution here in NZ, I wonder if it's happening elsewhere, with dojo's returning to pre-war praticality?

thank you Tom

@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE keep up the great work. Maybe I'll get to visit in person some day.

@@tomroberts5866 Open door here. Just give us a heads up so we can fill the beer fridge

😂

ALL grappling arts have a kihon (basic) that involves wrist or sleeve grabs, its not about fighting its about letting students learn about connection and kuzushi. We are saying some pf those basic drill could be tweaked thats all. Also, I disagree about training "full on" thats no good for beginners all you get is cardio and injuries until you have some skill and sensitivity.

very well put!

Honestly, Dosshu wasnt actually very good! That's half the problem! He was a good marketer and a half decent businessman but a very average technical practitioner. Tenkan really can never be a sweep because it destabilises the very essence of what the movement is there to create, ie stability and torque. Having trained with some very good Yoshinkan people over the year though I do understand that the "straight back leg" stance they prefer does lend itself to more a sweeping movement.

@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE thank you for taking the time to respond, I think this is a great opportunity for a good conversation. I should clarify - I am not suggesting that tenkan *must* be a sweeping movement. I am simply not in agreement that it *isn't* (and, by extension, mustn't?) a sweep. It most definitely *can* be a sweep and this motion needn't disrupt our balance. If I may, please see the following video of the late TK Chiba sensei (not Yoshinkan), where the irimi tenkan appears to involve a sweep, showing that there is power being generated and no loss of balance. I think this does a better job than my poor description. Osu ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UfJQwgTT7w0.html

100% agree with you, and have seen the dilution of the art via those people's students in recent decades. It's a terrible thing to see unfortunately.

@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE yes it is. And I hate to say it but it makes sense we are the laughing stock of the martial arts community. We are approaching a point of no return

@@ocaikiclub2859 Numbers are down 95% from the 80's Saito/Seagal heydays. It's become compliant tai chi in skirts that funnels cash back to Japan...

Bang on the money Sal...

I totally understand that different styles have different ways of doing things, but as you so rightly point out, the underlying body mechanics HAVE to be correct or it's nonsense. It really worries me that this is what is coming from the "seniors" within the art.. Thanks for your considered response by the way.

that version we would call "tenkai" I think but I agree with you on principle 100% - either way it ISNT a sweep lol

no comment...

Thanks for you comment Leon. Unless something is done the art will cease to exist soon, that why ourselves and a handful of others are encouraging Aikidoka to look broader for input to improve their budo

That is still incorrect. If performed like that it is being performed incorrectly, therefore not tenkan, but something else, perhaps barai. Tenkan by its nature is a hip rotation and step straight back - it even literally translates to "divert/covert" which clearly outlines it function. A 7th dan should know this.

Sr for bad english thou

Sorry to hear that, but it's it uncommon nowadays unfortunately

I disagree with that assertion - it is certainly disputable

you'll need to be more specific for us to respond.

@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE what I need to explain in above?

Maybe a time stamp in the video? Would help us see what you are referring to

@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE look for 3:41. Body one quarter turned while entering ikkyo.

@@vano-559 the entire point he was making was that this sweep turn was incorrect!

A simplification but essentially true

@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE yes it is a simplification but just to say I can understand your frustration. Digressing we have discussions about thinking forwards and down quite frequently. The concepts of where and what your thinking about affects your balance is not easy, I'm trying to work out how to feel someone attention change, I've felt it once or twice. Sorry Digressing. Enjoyed your video.

@@paddyhinton9665 thanks Paddy. There is no doubt things need to change, and I suspect it will come from outside of Japan..

Thanks Karl

Es un arte marcial, o al menos, debería serlo. Atemi es obviamente opcional.

Not really. It's called an "atemi". Google it...

I still maintain that tenkan isnt a sweep. otherwise it would be called "barai/harai" or something else. at speed the centripetal force may indeed take the foot away from the body but its a tight pivot, not a sweep. Re Doshu, why did he even take over when Saito, Tohei, Shioda etc were all eminently more qualified. The minute that happened, the technical side of the art was diluted, and has continued to worse over time. Passing a technical art down through a family lineage is deluded.

@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE Yes! I agree completely with your essential point. I agree that in it's essential form the foot should not sweep around. I'm just saying that there are specific cases were sweeping it around is useful. (the way it's demonstrated in the video I think you are reacting to is not one of them) My feeling is that being too definitive on a good point leaves that point open to nit-picking and was just trying to suggest a more flexible presentation. The manner in which it's done matters. Someone posted a video of Chiba Sensei "using a sweeping movement", I don't see that comment anymore, but I watched the video. Chiba Sensei mostly used a straight line footwork so it didn't quite support the posters point, but where he did sweep the foot around in a couple of spots, he was already 2/3 of the way through the movement, the legs having already passed each-other. This demonstrated one rational way of using that sweeping movement. The sweep is sort of there, but it's still consistent with what I think you are saying. The movement name might deserve its own video. ;) I can't speak to the Doshu question really. I do think his Aikido was impressive in person. Were there more impressive people that could have taken over? I tend to think the decision was more about politics, business and culture than anything else (which may be what you are also getting at?).

@@JonathanLewis1 that was my post re. Chiba Sensei - in the first two examples of the Chiba Sensei video there is a strong irimi followed by a turn with an evident sweep. As per my other other comments, I am not suggesting that a sweep is required in order for the turn to be tenkan, and I am not suggesting that Sensei Duncan is wrong - I am only disagreeing with the perspective that tenkan is not a sweep (like, ever). I happen to agree very strongly with sensei Duncan about the quality of teaching that appears to be on offer in the wider Aikido community. I think I found the original video that is being referred to and I agree that it's pretty bad. I'm not a fan of that Sensei, their Aikido lacks spirit, focus, power and 'martialness' (is that a word??)

@@pgl79 We may not disagree. This is almost certainly a semantic difference. We define a sweep differently. From my point of view once the retreating leg passes what becomes the front leg, it's path is no longer relevant to the sweeping around / not sweeping around point. Of course it will sweep around if the body continues to turn before it touches the ground. In other words, from my point of view, if the legs pass each other narrowly, it's not sweeping around, if they pas eachother widely, it is. If you watch Chiba Sensei in slow motion you can see that the feet never pass eachother at more than shoulder width, regardless of what they do after that. This may clarify what I mean. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tfYC4RXQqNg.html Valarie Allman, and the woman right after her, Daisy Osakue, have similar technique. Both, in the two steps before the release of the disc, step with a wide sweep first, then their legs pass each other relatively narrowly. Once the disc is released, they continue to turn using a wide sweep to slow the turn down for the recovery. The actual power step for both is relatively narrow. Different ways of moving for different purposes.

If they are sweeping the keg, it's a sweep, not tenkan. That's the point

Noted and thank you, will pass that on to the editors.

Looks like a few videos already edited but they have taken your comment onboard and will restrict this in future edits!

@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE Good I'm glad, it will make your video's better to watch, special effects cease to be special when they are used so much. I was kind of curious to see if I could find the video you were ranting about. I think I did find this video, what I noticed though was that it was on a channel not specifically aimed at Aikido videos. Rather it was just one short video amongst many others all to do with movement, and every single other video on that channel that i checked also had the comments switched off. If this is correct (because of course I may have been looking at something different) then I think your comment about the "comments being switched off on the video" is somewhat undeserving, since this unlikely to be in the control of the said teacher. Perhaps you can double check and advise?

Now that I have had a bit more time to think about your video, I'm really going to become a bit more critical of it, but perhaps not in the way you expect. Let me start by saying that I do my Tenkan exactly the same way as you, but that hasn't always been the case. My very first teacher taught not only to sweep on the back step but also with the front step, keeping the foot always on the ground to maintain your balance through the movement and not over extending the leg. His Aikido was really wonderful, soft, fluid and powerful (sadly he is no longer on this earth to ask his opinion) a real source of inspiration. At some point in my training it changed and my preferred method is exactly the same as you show and teach. Just experimenting around with the Tenkan movement itself, I find if I turn the body with an emphasis on using the centre/torso rather than driving the motion with the hips there does seem to be a natural tendency for the foot to sweep out on the back step. In the video you demonstrated in my opinion a half-a*** effort (excuse my words) at actually doing the technique this way, and that is ok, because you were mid rant and explaining your views about it with your students. I do think if you were really open to exploring the movement you probably could get it work, perhaps not as well as the normal way you teach it, but at least to a passable effort. My old teacher never had any issues doing an Irimi Tenkan Ikkyo and I'm sure if I tried I could probably do a reasonable one with a bit of practise. So my criticism is more directed at your righteousness that there is a correct way to do something, and this is a big issue in many places in my opinion. Of course you are dojo cho and a senior instructor so you need to have opinions about these things, and must set the standards for your students, that is completely understandable. In my experience of training within different organisations and under different teachers there is no single one correct way of doing any Aikido techniques, rather just peoples preferences (maybe with good reason or maybe not) and just variations (some being more efficient than others). The old cliche of "there is more than one way to skin a cat" in my experience is very true. I think your judgement of the general state of Aikido whilst there is some probably truth in it, is also heavily clouded by your own biases in the way that you believe that the techniques should be done. Anyway I hope you are not offended by anything I have written, that is not my intention.

@@kaishinkaiarchives agreed

thanks Jason

😃

thanks for taking the time - we disagree of some aspects of this but the IMPORTANT thing is we are talking about this, in the open, and that I really appreciate.

@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE I suspect that we are probably *more* in agreement than *not*

@@pgl79 I hope so. A very (very!) seniorJapanese instructor once told me tenkan meant "to divert or convert" and that O sensei showed it as a way of moving where the centre of the technique was to allow your partner space to be redirected around that new centre. For me, if you were going to do a movement "like" this as a sweep, I'd teach it and explain it differently, even go as far as to call it "Barai" just so the core principles are separated. As you mentioned, this video is more about the accurate passing on of information than anything else. Thanks again for engaging, we appreciate your support! DF

@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE "more about the accurate passing on of information than anything else" and yet in your video you say "on this particular video, the only thing I need to tell you was underneath it said comments turned off" and later when you have been asked to quantify the context of the said turned off comments you say ........nothing....not a peep...... a tumble weed rolls by. And so we the writers and readers of comments are left to draw our own conclusions about the accuracy of the said "turned off comment" comment. This is one of those pot, kettle, black moments.

@@kaishinkaiarchives My apologies, I don't spend all day on RU-vid. We also have over 200 other videos which my guys line up comments that I need to respond to. Ref this clip; The comments were turned off. Whoever turned them off is irrelevant, but it makes you wonder why? If all you can take from this video is that comment, and not the main point that people at the top in our art were being awarded ranks clearly for reasons other than technical ability, and then what I hoped was a fairly detailed breakdown of the mechanics of a fundamental tai sabaki, then I'm not sure what I can say. Sorry this seems to have upset you so much, again, I'm not really sure why when it was a throwaway comment right at the end. Thanks for engaging and have a great day.

You obviously have limited experience of both martial arts and trolling.

@@AIKIDOSILVERDALE And you have no experience applying any of this into real life fighting situations, or in MMA competition.

@@vyli1 Actually I do, as well as some of my student who are/were police and prison guards. Once again you are making sweeping comments based upon ignorance. 0 for 2. Want to try again? MMA is a sport, not real life... 0 for 3? We can do this all day. Why not post a video showing us your skills, as you are obviously such an expert? ;)

Why is it there is always some fool like this making stupid "anti Aikido" comments on every video? no actual martial artists of any level of experience would ever denigrate another art, because they understand that all arts have their place. My money is this is yet another stupid teenager that has never trained a day in his/her life and should really stick to playing fortnite.

@@Clarity2020Australia we have no idea. Perhaps they're lonely and need attention?