Really great working with you on this sir. Hope we can make more content together in the future. Thanks also to the Forney museum for letting us pull our foamy shenanigans!
@@Neo_320 even if someone gave us the money to do it, facilities to restore it, and a place to run it (we have none of those things) the museum probably would still say no. That locomotive is our single biggest moneymaker and time it spends being restored and run on the mainline, if you will, is time its not at the musem. I have plans to make it look pretty and have a look in all the nooks and crannies for my own self education, but zero plans to get a fire going in it.
@@thetoontrain473 I was joking... Sorry I didn't think anything about your comment was mean... Sorry brother... Me trying to be funny.. Didn't work... Sigh..
they last opened the front door about a decade ago when UP was looking at all of the remaining Big Boys. hearing all the crap fall when it was opened and how you said it was a tired choo choo are probably the reasons why 4005 was not chosen to return to steam.
Ed Dickens has stated that the whole checking on the other Big Boys did not happen. He wanted 4023, was told he couldn't have her, so he went straight for 4014 instead. The others weren't even considered.
It was not chosen because the front engine frame is cracked as a result of the accident. Otherwise it is in much better condition that the engines which had been exposed to the weather.
@@organbuilder272 having been all over the engine, I’d rank it about a 5/10 for condition. 4014 and 4023 were both in better shape than this thing seeing as it sat outside for 30 years in Colorado weather. Better condition firebox than the 4017, better condition overall than the 4018 and the 4004. With that said it’s still not in that great of shape. We recorded a whole firebox and cab tour which hopefully we will upload one of these days. (GoPro sadness is probably the reason it’s not in this video)
@@carlenger9707 Wait, she was outside for a while? I did not know that. I always thought she'd been housed inside the entire time. Huh. Oh nice, yes please, I would LOVE to see that. Thanks for your part in this; it was fun to watch. :)
wow there are still OG ashes in the (enormous) smokebox. Carl could get lost in there and never find his way out. 1.3x million hard miles on an engine that was built late in the steam era and didn't have time to see a fifty year service life. Boggles the mind. Thank you for sharing this very cool look at 4005. So glad she's preserved! Choochoos don't need to run to be beautiful artifacts presenting their history.
Agree with you and it's for that reason that the Forney probably would not want the 4005 to run again even if someone put up the money and gave us a place to run it.
Today we unbox a Wasatch class locomotive and we find steel, gunk, a man, and a bird. Also Hyce, 4005 may have a large boiler, but I used to do some volunteer work for battleship Texas and her boilers make a big boys boiler small
Ah, yes. Well, your battleship is obsolete and it can not move on land. Big Boys were made to move on land and they do not weight nearly as much as your battleship. The different in the size of the boilers are relative to the weight of the vehicle or vessel. Relatively speaking it is likely Big Boy in more powerful that the battleship. Don't try to compare apples to oranges - they are entirely different things.
@organbuilder272 who cares if it moves on land or not? Also he was just comparing actual boiler size not boiler to object size ratio. So nothing he said was incorrect or any less relevant. Yes Texas is obsolete but so is the Bigboy.
@@organbuilder272 no offense, this is like comparing a l&yr pug to a 9f, what’s the point? We know who wins, don’t compare stuff when aren’t gonna use fact, both are obsolete in their own ways, if you can’t say something nicely, don’t fucking say it at all
Hyce and Friend: Why won't this thing open? 4005, eyeing that last lug. Guys? GUYS! I wonder how much of the damage and wear you saw came from her 1953 derailment. They still needed her, so they fixed her enough so she could work, but didn't sink too much time and effort into her because well, diesels were happening. Poor girl's had it rough; glad that she has a nice cushy home now.
@@Hyce777UP 4005 received a complete rebuild in 1953, which included a new tender, with a capacity of 25000 gallons compared to the original 24000 gallons. I don't know how this tender got that crease but it may have happened when the Forney collection, including 4005, was moved.
@@Amigafur 4005's original tender has been lost to time. The increase in water capacity was simply because the tender it had came off of an engine from the second series (4020, 4021, 4022, 4023, or 4024). Swapping tenders was very common, and none of the Big Boys that survive have their original tenders. There would have been a builder's plate on the tender stating which engine the tender came off of, but of course, that has also been lost to time. We can rule out 4023's tender, as that is on the 4017. So the tender either came from the 4020, 21, 22, or 24 and that was the tender she had during her last year of freight service simply because it was the tender that was available probably after 4005 went through its last major rebuild in 1957. As for the crease, that was caused by the accident. Pictures post accident from 1958 (her last year of freight service) show that tender behind the 4005 and the creases are visible. There is other damage on the engine such as the stirups on the front that were not caused by the wreck.
@@Hyce777 Sadly, the tender is not Original for 4005, 8 Big Boys there are no original tenders for them other than the 4004 and 4023 . You can see the tender number on the 4005 is 25-C-4. The original 4005 tender was 25-C-106. Importantly, We don't know which UP Locomotive tender No. 25-C-4 came from, But you can still see traces of the accident on the side of the locomotive. 1: UP 4004 Tender No. 25-C-103 from UP 4002 2: UP 4005 Tender No. 25-C-4 from unknown Locomotive 3: UP 4006 Tender No. 25-C-104 from UP 4003 4: UP 4012 Tender No. 25-C-114 from UP 4013 5: UP 4014 Tender No. 25-C-116 from UP 4015 (The original tenders of 4014 and 4015 were swapped out by UP employees after their overhaul in 1956, and tender number 25-C-115 of 4014 was scrapped along with 4015 It was the first locomotive to be scrapped in September 1961) 6: UP 4017 Tender No. 25-C-404 from UP 4023 7: UP 4018 Tender No. 25-C-101 from UP 4000 8: UP 4023 Tender No. 25-C-105 from UP 4004
When I was in Denver back in June, I made sure to drop by Forney to see the 4005- got to stand on the deck on the cab to look in through the gate at the control surfaces, as well as inside the tender with the auger used to pull the coal into the firebox. Also got to see Aunt Peachy the Crane. As far as for the ill-repair, that looks about right for the last few years of the Big Boys operations in the late 50s, based on what I know; I'm willing to bet Ed Dickens and his team likely faced something similar when they got 4014 to Cheyenne, the most appropriate place to re-service the same engine as it was decades ago.
I just found your channel yesterday and love it and subscribed. I have a long history with 4014, I was born in Pomona Cal. just down the street from the Big Boy in September and my dad bet my mom she would miss the fair that year. But he lost and I went to the fair as an infant and every year after till I was in my 20's. My favorite thing at the fair was to play on and in 4014. This included climbing into its tender and crawling into the firebox! and even helped once to change the bulbs down there. Your videos bring back some great memories, thank you so much for your videos.
This is so cool!!! The size and scale of the Big Boy is awe inspiring. Something that most of us will never get to see, thanks for bringing us along and teaching us about the big Choo Choo. Somehow I don’t think this will be your only experience with a big boy though. 😎
The whole time you guys were trying to knock the door open I was worried someone was gonna hit that bell (either with the wrench or their head) lmao, glad I was wrong lol! And yes, that deck could host a whole party!
Today we learn: 1. How to access the backs of the builder's plates on a Big Boy. 2. Videos, pictures & numbers don't do the sheer size of these machines justice.
Wow, this video makes you appreciate the size of everything on the Big Boy. I just returned home from a ride on a narrow gauge tourist railway near me and the 2 axle diesel pulling our train would fit on the front deck with its wheelbase.
This vid was great! As a kid I climbed all over the 4017 in Green Bay when they brought her in. My brother and Grandfather took 2 days to get it fired just to roll a rail after moving 3 feet. And just standing on that half acre front deck will change one's entire perspective on the size of the loco. Thanks to both of you for doing this.
20:00 Car girl here, and the difference between rebuilt and salvage titles is actually important. Many states actually have those as separate titles because while the latter is ever sketchy, the former signifies that it's been certified as actually having been returned to a safe operating shape.
Former Honda employee here. (Im the guy in the video) You’re absolutely right. This locomotive would have a rebuilt title because it was rebuilt and put into freight service for 5 years after the wreck.
This makes me want to volunteer even more at the local train museum. They have 4017 and it would be great awesome to help preserve it. Now I just have to find time.
I grew up at the museum when it was being created, My grandfather was the hands-on consultant/grunt to make the museum a reality. He had just retired as an engineer on the Milwaukee Road. He then engineered the Soo Line pacific that they used for the train rides before the neighbors complained about the smoke. I was just at the museum a couple of weeks ago giving my nephew a tour. What a blast! I could name about 60% of all the locos. The museum has gone through some very difficult times in the past decade but, they are turning that around and have announced a multi million upgrade to the pavilion. I know the 4017 really well having climbed all over her when she arrived. The years I spent there are the most vivid memories I have. I get choked up when a hear a steam whistle and smell the coal and steam. Still in Green Bay, too.
If I remember right this engine was looked at to be restored and it was in Trains Magazine some time ago. Levi's jeans was one of the Sponsored. Thanks for the post.
If you’re ever in Green Bay Wisconsin, check out the National Railroad Museum, they have a Texas type, a big boy (that you can go in), an A4 class, a gg1, some other big choo choos as well. Also you can go in big boy and the A4’s cabs
@@carlenger9707 it’s a whole new climate control building so that their more sensitive rolling stock can be indoors instead of sitting outside in a shed
Seeing you guys wrestle with those dog nuts gave me a chuckle. Every once in a while at our truck and trailer shop(Semi-trucks, not RR car trucks), we allow owner/operators to pull their own tires out in the yard. It's always a young guy that tires to loosen them by hand. I let them struggle for a bit before I bring out an impact gun. They had air on hand already because of the air powered jack but didn't think to ask if they could use an impact. Always a good chuckle for me.
Cool to look inside! Yes it is big, I got first hand experience with 4014 in the 1960's when it was at the Los Angeles County (Pomona) Fairgrounds. Climbed on it Etc. as a teenager and 2 of my sons did too. Got to ride an excursion train pulled by restored 4014 in 2019. Glad it is preserved for future generations. (My Grandchildren and Greatgrandchildren have seen it operational in Utah this year.)
That was AWESOME, Hyce!! Just got back from Ogden Utah. Saw the Big Boy on tour there and got some great video when it went though Brigham City. Awesome machine!!
@@michaelmurray11189 he derailed at a switch bc the track was switched on to a siding and he hit it at about 50 mph and it flipped the hole locomotive and some if the freight.
Super cool video but just an FYI a paper dust mask like that will not protect against asbestos. You need a P100 HEPA style filter (the pink respirator filters). Asbestos particles can be too small to be blocked by an N95 mask
SHE - A Big Boy called a SHE. What , are you into trans or something stupid like that. BIG BOYS are HE, MALE - GET IT. Can't you read plain English ... BOY What's this she thing anyway. How can anything that big, powerful and heavy be a she. This he/she business is stupid anyway.
@@Pyrotrainthing The family of the engineer and fireman during the wreck have been to see the engine. Means something completely different to them than it does to you or me. We also had the late Art Lockman come by who helped weld the engine back together after it was wrecked and his name is carved into the frame somewhere
Nice to see the hometown road getting a little love in a museum in Denver. Not the Big Boy but C&NW 444 one of 3 surviving R1s. Aside from Mid Continent's currently under rebuild CNW goodwill ambassador during the 80s I had a nagging feeling there was something familiar about that road number so I did a quick Google search and I have old home movies my brother converted to digital and one of those was a trip my grandparents and mother took to the Black Hills when I was but a gleam in my parent's eyes and as a train crazy young lady always looked forward to gram and gramps bringing out the home movies for the three unintentional capture of trains including 444's stint on the Black Hills Central ( for the record the other two are a CNW GP7,tank car and red bay window local interrupting a parade in town and a Monon RS2 caught on a roadtrip in Indiana) but thank you Hyce for unintentionally letting me know a tiny part of my youth still exists.
Carl here, I’m the one in this video. Would there be a way for you to upload those to RU-vid or record them in some other fashion? We’re currently doing a lot of work on the 444 and are trying to do research on the engine since we don’t have a ton of information on it.
@carlenger9707 unfortunately there's not much detail Gram was either grabbing a quick shot of the mountains or burning the last bit of footage in the camera so it's maybe 5 or 10 seconds through a windshield with 444 in the background just enough resolution and time for the cab number and ball and bar on the tender. I'll still dig out the dvd and see if I can do anything with it.
Hi Mark, this was absolutely fantastic! As the massive door opened, I couldn’t help but think how archeologist Howard Carter must have felt when first seeing the inside of King Tut’s tomb. Like us seeing the inside of Big Boy for the first time, to quote Carter when he first peered into the tomb, we saw “wonderful things.” It was extraordinary seeing the unrestored inside of a Big Boy. So amazing to observe the original configuration and all that. Complete with authentic choo choo poo poo!!! 🤣 Thank you Professor for another ultra-fabulous learning video, and thank you shout out to your colleague for letting us see this special moment! As always, cheers to you Mark!
The broken welds around the smokebox door baffles reminded me that cinder blasting eventually cuts through everything in a coal burner's smokebox. I put in some patches on 464's smokebox in '84 and it was miserable because the welds kept blowing through. The whole smokebox may have since been replaced, if I'm remembering correctly. On the AMC Berkshires the Worthington feedwater heater tank and associated piping is inset into the smokebox between the smokebox front and the stack. This feedwater heater ditch (official blueprint terminology) is covered by jacketing. When 1225's smokebox was opened circa 1970, the entire top half of the ditch was separated where the cinders had blasted away the weld bead. This was repaired sometime before the 1975 test fire, but one wonders how long the engine ran like that and what it did to the draft? The cheater bar story that was told over lunch at 1225 involved a homemade Huron plug socket, a 6" long 3/4" drive extension, 3/4" drive breaker bar, and a 12' chunk of pipe (it may have grown in the telling). While attempting the removal of the plug, three college students applied enough force to break the extension. The extension was replaced under warranty. The plug came out easily on the next attempt.
Thanks for showing us this sad as it may be , it also gives us an idea of just how much work Ed and the guys put in just to get the 4014 back to steam ..,
Before I stumbled across you Hyce and History in The Dark, I didn't have any interest in trains. Now it feels like I could go out and run any. Unless it's British Rail, then we'll be lucky run anywhere. See Darkness the Curse, I've been listening 😂😂😂
I went to the museum the day after 4014 was on display at Union Station. Partook in a lecture about South Park Rail Society in Como and even got a private tour with the other attendees 10/10 would visit again
Love the video, knew you cere going to get your hands dirty on this onet...... so how many days before you wash your hands...... got to love steam engines. They are all works of engineering art, awesome on the inside and beautifull running down the track.
4005. What a legend. While Union Pacific performed constant maintenance on these monsters, all 25 4-8-8-4's still had around 1 million miles on them at the time of their retirement, with 4006 having well over. So it's not at all surprising they were wore out. They were bought for freight service, and were definitely used. 4012 is supposedly in immaculate condition and could be returned to service with little effort, while 4023 is a close second.
In fact, 4023 was in the best condition before it was moved to Nebraska. That makes 4014 the best condition, but to me, 4023 looks more interesting than 4014
@PhisitJenakkarkul You're right, because when 3985 was rebuilt by the UP employees, 4023 was also pampered. But UP thought the big boy would be just to big and heavy, and wasn't sure if they could run 3 steam locomotives. And I agree with you. 4023 is the only surviving 2nd generation 4-8-8-4. So it is very interesting. But, the museum that has 4012 claims it is in immaculate condition.
@@jasondrinovsky7962 4012 is pretty good I think. 4023 has the lowest mileage under 1 million and most of the parts are still intact. Unfortunately the weather in Nebraska has kept 4023 in poor condition. Same with 4018
@@PhisitJenakkarkul You're correct in saying that. The Cheyenne steam crew wanted 4023 before they ever went for 4014, not just because of its low miles but also because of its storage in Omaha and it being the only survivor from the second series of Big Boys (4020-4024). This meant certain performance upgrades over the first series of 20 as well as increased water capacity. 4005's tender is actually from one of the second series engines, we're not sure which one, but it isn't 4023's tender. 4012 is certainly in immaculate cosmetic condition. Steve Lee said on multiple occasions that as much as he would want to see a 4000 run again, it just wouldn't make sense in his mind. Apparently "people have been looking to try and find the 4000 that we're hiding here, and let me tell you we can't find it either."
Got to meet Carl at one of the steam shop tours earlier this year, such a cool guy to talk to and it's so nice seeing all the work he's being doing with 4005!
She was actually in fairly good condition, according to Ed Dickens. She had some water damage inside her boiler (That the museum apologized profusely for.), the large pin assembly that connects her pilot truck to the rest of her broke into three pieces when they went to take it off, and of course they had to replace a lot of small valves and fittings. The overwhelming majority of her is original and just needed servicing.
I'm sure it took you less than a second to say YES when asked a question like that. I'm not nearly the train person you are and I would have paid to help with that project. Great video, thanks for showing us.
Hyce, Are you familiar with C&O 614? She is in Clifton Forge Va. A 484 That was restored to steam about 1980 or so. She did pull some cisl trains through the New River gorge. She is in bad shape now but is on open display at the C&O Historical Society in Clifton Forge. ( The ashes of her last fire are still in the ashe pan)
I met an older gentleman at the assisted living facility my dad was living in that described being on the crew that repaired this locomotive when it derailed. He described a steel repair plate he welded on the frame and where it was. He was not physically able to go to the museum with us but we looked and sure enough there was his repair just as he described it!
This was truly amazing to see footage of even if it’s not very high quality. I can clearly see from over a mile away how unbelievably big and unique everything inside truly is. I’m surprised you didn’t say much about its incredibly history. Lots of miles on it and the crash could use a whole video. I’m glad they managed to save it rather than allowing history to completely die off. One day I really do want to see the 4014 and 844 both running together in-person. Would be amazing to see a Challenger one day too!
One of the great things about your channel is that your videos do not exist anywhere else in the world. Nobody has ever made the videos you post. Not even close, not even similar. You are the first person in history to upload a video of what’s inside the smoke box of an UP 4005, onto this thing called the internet. This is as unique as it gets in terms of content creation. We are blessed to have just enough overlap between the steam loco era and the internet era that this is possible. If the internet was made 50 years later, these locos might have been scrapped at that point and nobody other than a few select engineers on earth would have ever seen inside the smoke box of this loco, and those people who did, would eventually disappear. RU-vid videos on the other hand, are eternal-ish until some ceo decides to take down the service due to whatever reason whenever tiktok takes over i guess.
Clockfaces are one of many reasons why I'm not a fan of british engines... what if that hardware fails? Having lots of dogs like on American engines prevents extra maintenance as well as headaches.
Mark should see about getting behind the scenes at the 16 in gauge whiskey River railroad in Marshall Wisconsin, they have four really beautiful steam locomotives that they operate regularly
The engineering know how that could make such a complex locomotive and have it all work as well as it did as evidenced by their 20 years of mainline service is a testament to her designers and fabricators as they were among the last mainline steam locomotives to retire well into the switch to the much more economical diesel electric.
The old guys I used to work with years ago told me that you had to make the proper facial expression when you're trying to get a stuck bolt loose. It's not going to break free until you find it.
What a privilege to have a look see inside Big Boy. An amazing piece of machinery, and so beautiful. She may have had a crash, but she'll never "hit the wall."
That is pretty amazing… reminded me of “Last of the Giants” where they showed two guys in there [a Big Boy’s smokebox] with everything removed to get to the superheater. Side note edit here Tuesday: Hyce, would you consider doing a video on the Lord of the Rings level of adventure the 4005 took across the Colorado countryside just to get the museum where she now is?
IYes! That was the 4011 which has been scrapepd. I'll have to check again but I believe they removed all the netting you can see in the front end to get back there to the superheaters.
Big Choo Choo. Sharing in your joy. The biggest one I was into was the AWP 290 heavy Pacific. Her diameter was only 76+ Vs Big Boy's 106+ inches. I did a full spin a la Julie Andrews inside when it was being restored. You could hold a square dance in the big boy.
Too cool. We like to think how advanced we are today, but look at the technology that went into building an advanced steam engine. The nozzles to force more draft just one example.
That was fascinating. I wish I knew what I was looking at. I'm getting close to retirement age and there is a railroad museum just a few miles away I've always wanted to volunteer at so maybe soon.
71 years ago, "Big Boy" #4005 wrecked as it entered a switch track at 50 miles per hour, and I wonder if the engine still bears any scars on it's left side (the fireman's side) from that wreck.
@@carlenger9707The tender attached to 4005 now is not its original tender. You can see the tender number, it:s No. 25-C-4, which is the Challenger tender. Interestingly, We don't know which challenger the tender belongs ( 4005 Tender No. 25-C-106)
@@PhisitJenakkarkul the c-3 tenders are the ones form the challengers. The c-4s are from the second series of big boys. You can tell mostly by the bolt patterns and location of toolboxes. 4005’s original tender has been lost to time, and the builder’s plate stating which engine the current tender came off of has also been lost to time, however we can rule out the 4023.
@@carlenger9707 The 4023 Tender is currently with the 4017. The funny thing about this is that as far as I can find their 4-8-8-4-2 Tender starts with a 25-C-401 from the UP 4020. I have an idea it may have come from a 4664-4 or 4664-5 from the Challenger rather than the Big Boy 4-8-8-4-2. And as far as I know, the original Tender was badly damaged in an accident. Maybe the 4005 tender scrapped them along with most of the Big Boys in 1961, Who knows where the 4005 Tender now comes from, Maybe they built it new?
@@PhisitJenakkarkul I’ll make this very simple. C-1 tenders are from the first series of Big Boys. C-3 Tenders are from the challengers. C-4 tenders are from the second series of big boys. Swapping tenders was very common. It was not built new, it came from the second series of big boys.
My dad was a mechanical engineer he designed tube rolling cutting, and tube cleaning equipment for the entire industry including large power plants Navy ships, and chemical plants. We looked at C&O 2776 in Washington Court House Ohio many years ago that engine back then was put away with the idea of bringing it back i was in the fire box smoke box and steam dome and my dad told those guys from what i told him that it was in decent shape and could be brought back
Please wear eye protection when you work with metal above your head. I banged on some metal that was about the same height as that last dog, and got a small shard of metal lodged in my cornea. Was not fun having that scraped out while awake, and now I have a nice scar I will see the rest of my life.
