// UPDATE // "Can I have the samples?" I've now had an official answer and it's a very clear "no". However, numerous people have pointed out that these are possibly all stock E-mu sounds that the band compiled on disks for convenience. So, the solution is to go and buy this SP-12 library that Beat Machine released 10 years ago, because it contains most (if not all) of these samples. You just have to trawl through and find them. beatmachine.co.uk/drum-packs.html
Honestly Alex. I REALLY liked the 'Fake Genesis Jam'. Any chance of seeing a full vid of a longer version of it??? Pretty please???? Great video as always mate 🤟
Yeah, the snare clap is Sussudio. I think the first gated snare is the main snare in Land of Confusion, and pointed out, those two snares on the same disk is in the intro to Land of Confusion. Crazy to have the custom sounds to those huge hits in your hand.
I hope Phil & Mike and whoever else was involved with these samples get a chance to see this, I am sure it will bring back a flood of memories and a smile
@@MisAnnThorpe Got the entire thing working now and it took years to sort. It's staying. I should tell the story of carrying it home on several trains and a bus at some point. I had no idea it was so huge until I turned up at yours. 😄
@@AlexBallMusic Yes, Alex, and you should tell the story of the synth you won on Ebay that arrived without ANY protective packaging whatsoever, just a label with your name and address on it. That one takes some beating! I thought you were good to go once you'd tracked (see what I did there?!) down the ARP pickup? I genuinely had no idea that there were any other problems. I'm VERY sorry to hear that. Regarding your struggle to get the Avatar home: just last Sunday night, I had to lug an MS20 back from Carshalton. It's less than three miles away but with the humidity, it nearly killed me! I had erroneously thought/hoped that my original "real" leatherette carry case for my MS10 would be perfect. . . let's just say it wasn't.
yep, its right there clear as day when you chuck on No Jacket Required. You could actually sample the kick and snare nearly from the album as the drums are solo at the start of Sussudio
I can safely say as a big Genesis fan, if there was a whole album (hypothetically speaking of course) of fake Genesis jams like the masterpiece you came up with on this video, it'd be my favourite new release in a long time. Awesome jam! 🤟😎
The Tom at 7.39 was a popular SP-12 sample library one that was used a lot by Peter Van Hooke (the drummer in Mike and the Mechanics) . I've used it for that ridiculous 80s vibe in the past. It's all over the Mexico 86 ITV World cup theme - "Aztec Gold" by Silsoe, who were : Rod Argent and Peter Van Hooke :)
@@AlexBallMusic The irony of people getting excited about ripping them (yawn) and throwing shade at you for 'not sharing' is that is they are ALL there on various E-mu libraries publicly and openly and have been since the early 1980s and yes, I had to buy them so there is a copyright issue which you were correct about but it lies with E-mu most likely (now Creative Technology) . I've been using the kick and snare and gated tom in songs for decades. . As was the case with many artists at that time, you shared disks of curated selections from 1000s of sounds for sessions and live gigs to give to producers and collaborators etc.
This content is just so awesome. Who would have known nearly 40 years later, a guy would be listening to and playing samples that were just as likely to have never seen the light of day again after being stored? Glad these legendary bands never got rid of anything.
That entire drum sequence bit from the Phil Collins SP-12 practically had me in tears, I'm into old machines and I've just found a machine with a floppy drive unit, if i found something like that, and it was that groovy and confusing I would have the exact same reaction, fantastic content as always Alex! :)
There is something magical about knowing that these sounds, these exact sounds were used by Phil and Mike. It's like holding the original building blocks to a piece of history. I am also extremely impressed that the data on the floppy discs hasn't yet degraded.
The problem with samplers in the 80s was that solid state computer memory was expensive and not as compact as it is now, so that is why you only get a few seconds of sample time on those machines. In the 21st century, solid state memory and hard disk space are unlimited, so the whole project is done digitally. Back in the 80s, you didn't have all the memory and storage space you have now, so recording was done on analog tape, and sampled sounds had to be recorded on tape in real time.
So much music history in one floppy disc! Not just Genesis, but Phil Collins and Mike + The Mechanics as well! What a find! You must be feeling like sitting on a beach of gold 😉
80’s Genesis, Phil Collins, and Mike + The Mechanics are some of those bands where you don’t realize how much they were the soundtrack to your youth until you hear something like this. Then you realize how familiar these sounds are to you and your mind is blown.
Thank you! The 'whip-a-like' sound is probably used in 'I can't dance' snare The first kickdrum and the snareclap at 1:59 are from sussudio (i really love that snare). The snare is from the E-mu library. It's on the SP1200 library disk 'ZD603 Kyodai Rock' named 'snare6' (at least on the samplepack I dled) 'snare7' on that disk is the snare Phil used in Don't loose my number'. the gated tom at 2:24 is probably used in 'In the air tonight' (the big tom fill)
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I have an Emulator 3 with an external CD Rom drive. And on one of the CDs there're exactly these Drum sounds, also in the same order.
If you search RU-vid for "Emu Kyodai rock" you can hear most/all of them again. I'm pretty sure Depeche Mode bought and used the same discs. (It has some pretty silly guitar samples too that remind me of my old Yamaha PSS keyboard's woeful attempt at sounding like an Emulator).
yes im a genessis nut .my dad is a drummer , when i was young he bought a cd player . and showed me that 80s sound , this is amazing content by the way😍 ,rightly the samples are copyrighted but preserve them PLEASE 🤔megnitic media is not safe anymore😤 wen i saw a drummer change on a genisis concert video 20 years ago i got beat mixing audio .if the tempo is set the same .kicks blend into each other .this is what the tempo slider is for on a turn table .THE AMPLITUDE INCREASES BY ABOUT 20 % this is hard to do with 50 year old ears there was a track on one album that was all synth instrumantal it was almost hard trance .THE Brizillian.I think that was what is was called Maybe .this has inspired me to try and make music .i went and did a vocational music Tuition Course . NEED OF UNDERSTANDING is Powerfull stuff THANKS Alex
Holy crap, that drum sequencing was fantastic! I wonder how long that would've taken. SURELY it would've been done via MIDI at that point to save pulling your own teeth out. Ending song is freaking stellar, BTW.
I'd like to think that the Philmeister General would have played those patterns from his MIDI'd up Simmons kit into the SP-12, especially the more complex bits
6:50 thanks for this prompt. This is a song I don't think I've listened to on relatively good audio equipment before. Usually it's just in my shitbox car with a garbage stereo, but sitting here with my decent-ish stuff this song sounds glorious. My god. It's breathtaking. Dear lord, that modulation, get out of here. Makes my hair stand on end it's so good. Now I'm listening to Silent Running and it's just gorgeous. God I love this.
I would bite my arm off for a sample pack!!! Great video. I’m a huge Banks, Collins Rutherford fan and often find myself trying to reconstruct their sounds in my DAW. You lucky, lucky b….
I was actually thinking it would be funny if he didn't do sample pack because he obviously would but then he didn't Maybe the chap he borrowed them off said not to
@@ardvrech I'm not usually into 80s sounds, but these, if they're punchy as in this video... not ultra versatile, but they could be very fun to have around.
Yay! I love this sort of thing! I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this but I think a bunch of the Phil Collins sounds were part of the Mirage library. I had them back in the day. Used them on a bunch of my own songs. I used to use that gated snare layered with my TR 707 because I didn’t own a proper reverb unit. Fun times!
Always interesting doing a bit of synth archaeology! Couple of points though; the SP-12 doesn't have internal eproms like the Linndrum. Whilst the SP-12 (unlike the SP-1200) has internal sounds, these were stored in ROM and were not swappable. Secondly, a number of the samples you play first are from the Emu factory library that were sold as separate disks.
The sound ROM are socketed and can be replaced with EPROM. It's a bit complicated to make these since the 12 bits are weirdly distributed between the ROM. But you are right that this was most likely not intended by E-Mu. I'm not aware of any aftermarket chips for the SP-12.
Incredibly interesting. I love the "random" output of one sample set and one sequence set without knowing how they were originally intended to pair. I guess bands grow/progress so much that they don't care anymore, but I also find it surprising this stuff's not in the artists' possession.
I was hoping someone would recognise the pattern and say "This was used for a one-off performance in the Bulgarian version of the Brit Awards in 1988", or something like that, and then link to a RU-vid video of it. I'd guess that at least a couple of the discs were used for later performances of songs that had already been released (rather than in the compositional process), and the discs were used for "playback" in a live context.
What an absolute treasure, this was amazing! As everyone says in the comments, please make sure to make images of those disks and if at all possible, pretty please make a sample pack!
Not possible. He'd be sued by Concord Music Group and you don't want to mess with them. In fact, he may yet get a cease and desist order for this video.
So much fun. Recognise some of the first batch of samples from "Land of Confusion" - and probably te rest of the Invisible Touch album as well, which would be spot on for the year.
Well that was incredible. I wonder how Phil would feel knowing you were fondling his samples? I hope someone somewhere has transferred those samples to a longer lasting medium.
A least one of the snare sounds was transferred to a longer lasting medium. It's called the 'No Jacket Required' album, available in your local record store since February 1985.
I was looking forward to having some of those sounds come together and I was not at all disappointed. Lovely stuff and captured that period of Genesis pretty well, I think.
A rare case of where having all the gear did actually make you sound just like the artist. We know the secret is in your fingers still of course. All it needed was a Phil Collins soundalike singer and that easily have been a lost track from their Abacab era.
The funny thing is I’ve got the sample pack of the factory SP1200 sounds and there’s a bank in there called “Kyodai Rock” containing a number of sounds you played in this video, so I’d assume that Emu sampled a lot of the Phil sounds off the original records. And if you move to sound banks called “Latin” and “Traps” there are a clave and tambourine sound used by Phil on the But Seriously and We Can’t Dance records. I think PC also alluded to this in the 808 interview saying that (paraphrased) “they sampled what they thought is me but it’s actually just a drum machine running through a reverb”
I think it's always awesome when people get a hold of historical pieces of electronic samples like this. I have a friend in Texas that scours places for old studio masters, and then dumps them digitally to have a semi-permanent copy that will def outlast the magnetic tape from decades ago.
Interesting disks! But a lot of those sounds are probably taken from other Emu disks and just mixed to their own liking in order to write and fit sequences. Only a few sounds sound like they were custom samples of Phil's own drumkits. It was my understanding that Phil used the SP12 mostly as a writing tool but that a lot of it did not end up on his solo records (or the Invisible Touch record). He started using the SP1200 after But Seriously I think. Not only for writing, but also to perform the duty of playing all sequences (instead of relying on 5 different drummachines) and also as a trigger machine for his drum triggers (to trigger Simmons sounds). I think all drummachine grooves on We can't dance are SP1200. Those custom sounds he triggers are not included in here. It's also known that Phil bought library disks. One of the examples being "Hip hop brushes" as those sounds formed the basis for the song "Living Forever". Also not included here it seems are the sounds used by Chester Thompson (not sure if he ever used the SP12 with Collins or Genesis. He did use the Dynacord ADD TWO for But seriously and We can't dance). Tony also has drumsounds in his Emulator. He triggers a few during Domino. Always was curious how compatible Emulator II sounds were with the Emu SP series (and vice versa) . That said, the Emulator library (either from Emu or third parties) sampled a lot of those Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel sounds. I've encountered those sounds from Don't lose my number, I don'\t care anymore, In the air tonight, Sussudio, Rythm of the heat, I've got the touch, Intruder, Lay your hands on me, and I probably left some out, in so many of the Emu sample collections along with just the regular roster of TR808, TR909, Linndrum, CR78, DMX, and Simmons SDS samples. I wouldn't be surprised if some of their sounds (like the first ones you trigger which are from Don't lose my number and Sussudio) on these disks are also from third-parties who basically did the work of sampling those sounds and the guys figured that buying them for a small fee is much less hassle than sampling and compiling those sounds themselves. Most of the sounds we know from Phil/Genesis songs included in this demo never originated from the SP12 so it's all work done "after the fact". Btw, surprised these disks are still in good readable shape after a few decades.
I wanted to be careful not to get into a "letter from a record label" type situation, so I'm not putting them anywhere, for now. I do _really_ want to give them away, but I'd also prefer to not get sued.
I don't remember where I get them (I think some German site), but I have a folder on my computer labeled SP-12 that, among other samples, 100% has that third snare/clap and fourth snare sound you demonstrated, and maybe that first gated tom as well. Makes me wonder what the original sources for these sounds are
I honestly would not be surprised if the recorded those samples and they later got leaked.. Phil had been using those kinds of gated sounds longer than anyone else , Genesis did own their own studio at the time, and I'm 90% sure Tony or phill said in an interview that some of the gated toms on Invisible Touch were a layer of phil's gretch kit and the Simmons' electronic sound
It's kind of fascinating that Phil Collins definitely used E-mu drum machines and bought (or was given) sample libraries like Kyodai Rock which contains most/all the sounds on these discs, but E-mu also sold libraries that included samples taken from Phil's own records. In at least one example, Phil used one manufacturer's drum machine, added reverb and put out a record, and then another manufacturer released a drum machine or sample CD with that same sound (with reverb built in), and Phil could play that in his live shows or use it on his next demo without ever hitting a "real" drumskin.
Amazing that the pads (triggers and processor was able to record so well when Phil was really putting the unit to the test. I have to use 2 x drum processors to get reasonable midi recording without false triggers. Thanks for posting.
