I have an early P85 2014 Model S 80K miles. No comparison on miles 212K super impressive. At 35K miles my car had the drive unit (motor and differential) failure (developed a noise) its well documented google it . Tesla just said no problem and swapped out in 2 days. At 65K miles and out of its 5 year standard warrenty (but battery and drive 100Kmiles 8 years) it developed a water leak and over heated the battery eventually after a few months we found the leak on the 4 way valve but it was too late for the battery. Fremont emailed me and said "You have a battery problem contact service centre were arranging a replacement". Two days later its done. SO even when Teslas have a problem service has been exemplary, a free loaner and good coffe and the factory let me know! The S has never left me stuck or not got me back home. First 4 years i would say 30% supercharge now 10%. My S is a keeper, running cost (free supercharging) and performance package cant be beaten and it still looks so good never going back to ICE
Thanks for your story, Graham. I have a Model S 100D bought in March, with only 3,500 miles on it. I hope to drive it for as long as you did and further. Absolutely love the car, and never going back to ICE either.
It always hurts the worst when you calculate your total cost of ownership and discover you are actually paying more for something. I just bought a Zero Motorcycles DSR, and it's a much much smaller initial cost than a Model S, and yet it is much much more costly than the equivalent ICE motorcycle. However, I charge it up for nothing on public chargers, and about $.85 at home. Just like my solar panels on my house, and my Dewalt electric lawnmower. They certainly do cost more upfront, but that TCO comes one so much faster than you can imagine when you no longer have to buy gas or oil. And then when you finally how much more enjoyable the "thing" is when it's not making all that noise.
I really love how people are saying that EVs are expensive, but they are only if you drive 10k km per year and etc, but if you drive a lot they get much cheaper, like in US gas prices are much lower than in Europe, but in Europe with this millage you would save between 55 - 65 thousand dollars (depends on the country) which is current price of Model 3 LR in Europe and even if charging is not for free anymore you can still use local tariffs and even superchaging or Ionity (8 Euro per charge with 200kw for Model 3) is great. So you would still save 40 - 50k.
Ashan Mendis I don’t know what to expect for the next 18 months. As of today it is worth about $32k, but if Tesla achieves full self-driving I think that could hurt the value of this pre-autopilot car. It will also be losing its drivetrain warrantee about then, which could scare off customers. I could venture a guess of maybe $24k? But that’s all speculation...
Hey i want to thank u for joining the electric car revolution before it was popular and taking the financial hit I hope u think about renting it on turo As i think it will have free supercharging and with lower maintainous cost you should have more value there than just selling it
Fine video. My experience with a 2015 Tesla (3/2015) is not dissimilar with respect to user experience, how well it has held up very well and the incredibly low cost of maintenance is remarkable. I've also found my visits to the service facility always positive. My only equipment failure was a 3G Board and it was replaced at no cost to me with an LTE board so now I have 4G, which is very nice and much better for telephone and internet function. I don't have anywhere near the miles David has, but I'm paralleling his experience. My P85D used to charge to 254 miles. It now charges to 252 after 4.5 years, even with frequent use of the local Superchargers in my community. For those of you who don't know, many of the interior parts are from the E-Class MB----the electric window buttons, shift lever, trunklid closing button etc. are right out of the E-Class from 2010-2016. All in all a very desirable driving experience. I have no burning desire to replace the car even though my prior habit is to do so every 5-6 years for an ICE. No need in this instance, though I am sure at some point I will.
24:15 to 24:25 says it all!!!!! I have a Long range AWD Model 3 and I couldn't agree more. 16,000 miles and I am still blown away every time I drive it! I just bought another $20,000 worth of stock yesterday because of this statement.
It's likely the reduced speed is the cells getting more resistive. If you were to push the same amount of current as when new, the battery would get much hotter and really reduce life. He's got a lot of miles, props to Tesla for a great BMS and cell chemistry choice. I'm an industrial motive technician, so I work on lots of batteries and refurbish lead acid batteries. Sometimes I come across old batteries with such a high resistance that when charging they get too hot to be usable or recoverable.
What a greatly informative video on real life use of a this car, on a long enough period of a time and mileage (that exceeds what I would have thought to be the lifespan of that car actually!) to make it a worthy experience sharing to listen to! Thank you so much for bringing that to us! And many thanks to your guest, who not only has feedback the car, but also one of a really interested/interesting individual that you can relate to!
People often forget that e.g. diesel cars lose performance and economy over time when comparing to an EV. A few comparisons would be interesting to see if anyone can volunteer details from a diesel. In Europe the savings on fuel for this range would be somewhere around 38,000 Euros!
Great review. My dad was a long, long time mechanic and saw gasoline-powered cars lose overall range also, as they age as the internal engine components wear out and gum up, causing the cars to travel less miles on a gallon of gas. It varies some but ICE cars usually lose: 2%-10% of range, as the cars get to 200k miles or more.
Great stuff. I have a higher mileage model S. I used to have a Volt. The button for the mode wore out. I saw an easy fix online. But it was under warranty. They replaced the entire center console Crazy
@tommy aronson it wasn't me, but if you ever had a volt you know that it defaults to Normal mode and you have to put it in sport mode everytime you get in
Alex and David thank you for this video. It was excellent to hear what has lasted what has not and you're repair experiences. And how much you can do yourself. Very nice hearing a hype free description one owner's Tesla experience.
This was probably the best video I've seen on owning a Tesla S. Two guys talking about their experience, not trying to be fanboys, just telling it like it is. Outstanding!
The car talk they were talking must have been similar to what your use to? Did daddy stop talking to u since u came out? It's ok u have your Tesla fanboy.
Excellent video, Alex. So useful to see what the high mileage guys are seeing. Some software issues now with my X90d but I'm sure Tesla will sort it out once I have time to take it in. The best car (by far) I have ever owned, and would buy another one with hesitation.
I was at 282,000 km on my 2015 90D - Here are some of my issues I had: 1) Had to replace my MCU twice under warranty, and once not in warranty ($3500 CDN) 2) Door Handles 2x under warranty, 3x fixed myself not under warranty (Approx an hour each) 3) Parking brake power cable harness corroded\broken out of warranty... $250 part, took me 2 hours to replace. 4) Parking sensors x6 or 7 over the years... $110 a piece. Now for the BIG one: I was left stranded at the supercharger once due to my 12V battery spontaneously dying without warning. Tesla said that when super charging, the 12V does not charge... which sucks, because when I was using the computer inside while chargning, my car just turned off... took 4 hours out of my day to get back home, and Tesla couldn't put the new one in until the next day.... because it was out of warranty, I had to pay for the tow, and the battery, and the labor.... total cost for that bull was $800... all because the 12v battery died. I sold the car after this. The good: Original battery, original motors. Leave me stranded once? Bye! That being said, I'm looking at buying a new one. Loved the car.
The 12V battery is still a lead acid one, right? They really should upgrade it to a LiPo one of the same or greater real capacity. The big plus is they charge faster. There should also be a dash warning when it's getting low. Have they fixed this issue of the 12V not charging when using SC? That does seems kind of mad. Worst case I would think they could "take a 2 min break" every so often when on SC to charge the 12V a bit - again, if it was LiPo it could charge fairly quickly (e.g. 8A).
Hey, whats your rated range at this point on your 90D? I have same car, same year but battery has been replaced prior to when I bought it. I guess they put refurbished one, I have about 263 rated miles at 100% SOC. Car has 32k miles and I don't know how many miles the replacement battery had.
Having a Model3 towed in the background was quite... interesting:D But all cars break down, glad the owner got a temporary replacement so soon. The Model3 is great because of all the new tech but an older Model S... still a lot of value.
The driveunit issue of the early models was nothing major, it was one of 2 things: 1) The inverter boards with the performance electronics got loose and started vibrating in the magnetic field. This has been solved to my knowledge by embedding them into some elastic antistatic 'goo'. 2) The Bearrings weren't able to take the power, so they started making grinding noises. They've since upgraded them, so this is no longer an issue. To my knowledge all of these drive units were overhauled and put back in, so really no major issue that would leave you stranded. Just inconvenient in the beginning.
You know the part about replacing the whole assembly’s is probably cheaper to Tesla because they don’t have the stock 120 different versions of each part for every year month update
I'm at 248k as of today. Recently been affected by the batterygate issue (Tesla stole 12 miles). Charging speed has been reduced significantly as well. Not too happy right now :-/
While it's true that Teslas become obsolete FASTER than other cars, they still depreciate MUCH slower than other brands. For the past several years, Tesla has held it's value better than any other brand on the road today.
I think “becoming obsolete” will change soon when various companies start to update the 85kw packs with newer cells as prices fall (hopefully) I like that the 1st gen model s can be updated to newer screen tech as well as updated MCU. Also the newer drive units can be swapped into the older model s. I have high hopes the first gen teslas don’t become obsolete besides the driver assist tech
Making the cpu board that has the eMMC chip in the MCU a separate spare part! would be a minimum acceptable thing, instead of replacing the entire MCU including screen and everything else for $3000
mSata was the protocol back then, thank gawd they never used it. Now that M.2 is good wide spread standard i wish they used it. Doubt they will as it would allow too easy access to OS code.
@@bassrover5925 "90% electricity gets by burning OIL" You LIAR! data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.PETR.ZS World average is around 3.28% from Crude Oil products since 2015. Oil based fuel is simply not financially viable for Grid Scale electricity generation.
@@bassrover5925 Not in the US which is the primary market of Tesla. And even burning 100% oil and coal for driving EVs is fine if all the toxic emissions are trapped in a huge industry instead of blowing into my nose, eyes, hair, etc. Even the worst and cheapest EVs are always more efficient than ICE anyway.
The drive train bugs are probably now gone I bet the model 3's drive train will last a million miles! Tesla will prove beyond any doubt that EV's are superior to ICE vehicles in every way! One thing Tesla needs to do is open source diagnostics and maintenance procedures and allow owners and/or local garages mechanics to replace drive motors, modules and batteries etc..... I believe this would help bring on mass adoption because one of the biggest fears is.... What happens if something breaks?!
@@GowthamV07 Remember the VW Beetle? This car was hacked and modified beyond recognition by backyard mechanics and professionals alike.... The Beetle was loved for generations and VW sold millions and millions of them... The Honda Civic is another that comes to mind... People know these cars inside out... I've owned and worked on both.... I should be able to confidently do all the routine maintenance like brakes, sensor/module replacement, motor replacement, etc... I'm not talking about hacking the car's software but, I should be able to diagnose and perhaps fix one. I expect that the Tesla Model 3's will live long past their warranty date, probably last a million or more miles.... Do you think Tesla is going to want to repair or support a 20 year old car with 800,000 miles on it?
I would only have spent $15k on all expenses for my Prius to go the same distance. That's Gas, Oil changes, Transmission fluid, and Tires . A Used Model S seems like a good bargain IF you could still get the free Supercharging on an old car .. that policy may be changing. And all the Drive line issues had been fixed already. I was wondering about door handles.. that is a common fail on the early Model S also..
@@esalenchik Yes that's what they have said. But Tesla actually pulled free lifetime Supercharging on cars they sell thru there own website for a while.. Now it seems to be back.. Who knows what the real story will be. Would be annoyed if I bought a car from a private owner that had it.. then Tesla disabled it.. For me it's a significant financial change. I drive 57k per year.. most of it would be using Superchargers.
I have the same car, 62k miles. Drive units are going to be a continual problem for those of us out of warranty. $7-10k a pop. DU was replaced at 47k miles and battery at 60k miles. I'd be happy to reach 150k without a new DU, but it's unlikely as the seals seem to fail.
Very interesting video. There ought to be more of these types of videos for the ordinary motorist to watch. There really isn't anything to be afraid of when buying an EV. Just check them as you would any vehicle.
Great vid and I agree with most everything shared in this vid... S85 with 350kkm/217kmi... Model S rules :-) Thanks to Dave for his channel!! Many great instructions in there, lots of helpful insights... Kudos !
@@brendanc5519 Agreed. Cost comparison is not in Tesla's favor.. Have a Prius with 296k on it. Still all original main components, including suspension.. Now comparing a Model S to a BMW or Merc.. or similar Luxury brand.. the Tesla may be cheaper .
I am doing so much research on Tesla and other EVs im worried about if i buy used model S im gonna need to fix it soon and with my tight budget its troubling but its less to what i pay right now on fixing my passat b6 i live in Norway so used Tesla is around 350k norwegian krones and a new tesla 3 is around 450-500k so this interview really helps for people like me im leaning towards Used Tesla P85+
212K miles and no mention about the brakes! How many new rotors how many pads did he use... I have never had any luck with any car I have owned when it comes to rotors and brakes, for me that has always been an issue on my last 5 cars..
Do you drive with both feet? Using your left foot for the brake and your right foot for the throttle? That's probably why probably you are riding the brakes with your left foot unknowingly. You should get about 25 to 30,000 miles out of a set of pads rotors honestly should last triple that. Toyota Prius has regenerative braking like the Tesla you can generally see 100 to 125,000 mi on a set of pads. And the rotors might last you forever.
Yes, the brake pads, rotors, and calipers are conventional automotive parts. The only reason they last so long is due to regenerative braking significantly reducing the usage of the friction brakes.
I've documented the clunk noise in an older video of mine (it was a loaner, I'll see if I can find it), examples of the milling noise can be found with a quick RU-vid search, and the same can probably be said for the inverter buzz (I can't remember if I ever included those two noises in past videos).
@@ariangx1929 " Great Value BLEACH" is clearly a troll. That number is a Lie. 27:35 $1500 out of pocket under Warranty for the entire 5 years ownership.
@Alex Venz Could you do an episode addressing the Tesla insurance issue? I was shocked when a neighbor bought a Model S and told me that she had a really hard time finding insurance and that it was significantly more expensive than on her previous BMW. Is this some sort of conspiracy? Lol. Teslas are the safest cars on the road and they are somehow more expensive to insure.. makes no sense!
I think part of it depends on the specific insurance company and the state you live in. I found that insuring a LR AWD Model 3 was only slightly higher than a midsize ICE car that was 2 years older with an original MSRP half that of the M3. A Tesla much safer but it is more expensive to fix body damage. With all the safety features it is possible that after insurance companies evaluate the data they will adjust their rates downward when the vehicles are found have lower overall insurance payouts.
My friend had a hard time finding coverage for it last week , in Quebec province insurance check ur driving history for past claims.Some won't insure at all even with good history,and price vary for same coverage,. The performance of the car might be a factor...0 60mph better than some Ferrari Bugatti etc...I think it cost him 1800 $ cdn for the car and human coverage is included in the price of license plate wich is provincial governement juridiction I can ask him!
The drive units never failed. The replacements were for a noise issue that isn't compromising the operation. But either way, the old drive units are replaced and the current ones are very solid and reliable. So the issue is fixed, even for the old cars.
Tesla is trying. I think their challenge can be said to be consistency. My service experience has been wonderful, but that's not uniform unfortunately. Some might depend on what problem they are trying to solve, but I think it seems to be mostly down to what area you are in. I don't really have much data to base that on though.
at 25:56 you discussed "gasoline cars, the motor wear out, whereas that's not really the case with EVs. Even battery degradation at only (10-11%) is pretty good." What about the 6 drive units replaced that you spoke about towards the beginning of the video? The first one wasn't "broken" per say but wasn't that noise similar to a worn I.C.E. issue?
That was a design issue with the early large rear drive units. Tesla kept swapping those drive units out for people until a solution was implemented and now they're fine. The drive unit swaps were largely out of an abundance of caution on Tesla's part.
@@AlexVenz oh i see now. And i saw, I went back and reviewed the video and David said his last unit now has like 100k miles on it with no further issues. Thanks for the clarification. :)
How bout mine? Cost $4,000 less than the average new car purchase here, and we charge for free at work and in a half dozen places around town. Now I have to choose between replacing the muffler on my other car or just replacing the whole car. ICE just felt so wrong the minute I got in my 3.
Great video. I have a question for all the er'vers. What is the best used ev you can buy, with the best battery range, for under 18k? I am looking to buy one next year, for a commuter car. I travel 30 miles one way, but it can take 1 hour in traffic. I also can charge at work for 4 hrs max at level 2. I live near Atlanta GA and commute in 5 days a week, Thanks.
Tesla has not made a change interval public for the gear oil in the drive unit's single speed reduction gearbox. That said, lubricants don't last forever... If I had to guess, I'd say that somewhere around 80k-100k miles would be a reasonable change interval.
It wasn't charging. Some Model 3s clunk every now and then and it feels like it's popping of the floor pan or something... it seems distinctly different than the clunk from the contactors.
@@AlexVenz you know this comment really is a question I am quite struggling with. Do I buy a 2016 New-design Model S 90D or a 2019 Model 3 Long Range Dual motor. I’m having a hard time pin down all of the infotainment differences and overall computer system differencs
@@connerp841 I'd go with the Model 3, unless you really need the extra space. The Model 3 gives you more range, much faster Supercharging, the latest infotainment hardware (MCU1 in the older Model S is quite slow in comparison, doesn't support many new software features, & has numerous reliability issues--it will fail), all new Model 3s ship with the Autopilot Hardware 3 computer & sensor suite which is vastly more capable than the Hardware 1 setup you'd find in a 2016 Model S (its feature set is also continually expanding, whereas software development for Hardware 1 stopped a long time ago), the Model 3 is also better built, more reliable in general, handles better, and is more fun to drive. I still have my Model S and have driven many older and newer examples. However, the time I've had with my Model 3 has caused me to conclude that I wouldn't even take a new Model S over a new Model 3 unless Tesla gives the Model S a serious overhaul.
That's weird that Tesla doesn't perfect their batteries for minimal degradation. My motorcycle battery hasn't lost any range in 50k miles, and people with more mileage say the same, maybe minimal loss.
Time and charge cycles will degrade any lithium chemistry battery. I'd need to do some research to find good data for electric motorcycles, but cell chemistry is all about tradeoffs and Teslas batteries tend to hold up really well compared to other batteries being used in electric cars. As an extreme example, my first generation Leaf lost ~20% of its pack capacity in 21k miles (combination of cell chemistry and inadequate thermal management). My Model S has seen less than 2% degradation in 4 years and 36k miles.
@@AlexVenz I just learned that Farasis (Zero Motorcycles) batteries have similar chemistry to a power tool battery. Very dense and built for minimal degradation with lots of charge cycles. Electric cars don't use this same chemistry for reasons I haven't found and can't think of on the spot
What model? Some kind of Zero? Does it do the same kind of high-speed charging? I really wish electric bike prices would come down - or features/range/performance go up a bit more. I would like 300km+ range and 160+ HP in something under 250kg - e.g. a KTM 1290 but electric. :)
As discussed in the video, Tesla had some early problems with the old large rear drive unit. The issues have since been solved. David's latest drive unit has over 140k miles on it and has had no problems.
Tesla has none of these Oil changes Oil filters air filters anti freeze MAF sensor Piston rings Main bearings Connecting rods Cam shaft Gas cap Cylinder head gaskets Thermostat Gas tank Fan belts Water hoses Spark plugs Plug wires Fuel injectors Coil packs Fuel pump Water pump Radiator Fan clutch fuel injectors Ignition Head gasket Valve cover gasket Head cover gasket Oil pump Transmission Clutch Motor mounts Timing belts exhaust system Catalytic converter Piston rings Drive shaft U joints
@@AlexVenz @BlitzNation TV He also said it was for "cosmetic" reasons only, so not a reliability issue, just a noise/design issue, which is now fixed. I'll wager most ICE cars make more noise. That said, those kinds of noises drive me nuts, so I too would have wanted it fixed.
It’s annoying how this dude cuts off the guy he’s interviewing. Not once or twice, MANY TIMES throughout out the video. Cut it out bro, not cool... so not cool.
How much did you spend on gas for those 256,000 miles and how much did you pollute your ‘local’ environment with the exhaust gasses? Convenient for you, extremely inconvenient for everyone else.
