What's So Great About M390? 

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I have knives with these super steels such as 20CV, M390 and even RWL34. But my primary edc knife is S35VN and is the most prominent steel in my collection.

I’ve got or had quite a few m390, 20cv, 204p knives. For normal carry use it’s pretty decent. For use on my job though it takes damage pretty easy on the edge. I tend to prefer tool/carbon steels on my knives for overall performance.

My favorite M390 model is the Manix 2 in brown G10. That thing is a PERFECT example of every element coming together into a package. The blade geometry is spot on, Spyderco processes their steel well, the ergonomics are fantastic and it’s a “user knife” that you’re not afraid to throw in your pocket. The Manix is a great platform for pretty much any steel and the ones I have are truly top tier.

Over all my favorite edc steel is s30v. I find it holds an edge among the best and is still easy enough to sharpen without losing my mind. My spyderco ceramic stones have been a game changer for sharpening these harder premium steels though.

For me it's all about how cool the name of the steel is. Maxamet, Rex, Elmax, Cru Wear all sound really badass. Lol I enjoyed the video and found it very entertaining. I love your weekend videos where you delve into the madness of us enthusiasts.

Böhler M390 is made by Böhler Edelstahl GmbH & Co KG in Kapfenberg (Austria). Greetings from Vienna 😜

I am part of the collector/enthusiast boom in the knife industry....I was buying sub $100 knives around 2011-2013 when I committed to buying Benchmades Spydercos Microtech......and then Vintage Microtech.....and SOG GerberAl Mar.....I went through the fit and finish school and was driven to buy every new steel out there.....NOW all I want is a 2006 D-2 Socom Elite...manual, not a auto....I have a serratedexample but I NEED a p/e.......Microtech heat treat on D-2,🥰

Well put! It depends upon who you are... I went for the M390 for a while and found that the hard steel like ZDP189 was more to my liking for use day in and out. LC200N is my favorite for fishing in the ocean or food prep. (Spidie Cheif) People who use the knives as tools have more of a intended use perspective. I like 154CM and VG10. It just depends on what the use for the blade will be. I like to experiment with thinning out the blade and generally like to keep my knives super sharp. All the discussion is just about having fun with the hobby. Thank you for taking the time to make the video. : )

I got a Microtech Ultratech a couple of days ago in M390. It’s my first with that steel, up until then S35VN is the highest grade steel I have owned. The M390 has saw little use so far. I have an ESEE 5 with 1095 carbon steel and I’m a huge fan, it holds an edge pretty good despite being used fairly hard, but honestly I think splitting wood isn’t as hard on the edge as repetitive cutting of paper for example.

I knew an old custom blade smith who studied under Gil Hibben and Harvey Draper decades ago. They used to love 440c because it was stainless and easy to sharpen. He later embraced 154cm also, those were his 2 blade steels, and by the time I met him and had a couple knives made I went that direction, 154cm that is. His opinion was like "yeah 154cm is great, it stays sharp longer than 440c but when you do have to sharpen it, it's harder to sharpen. Feels like the s30v vs m390 debate in a nutshell. BTW I want to buy a Shirogorov that runs on washers with s30v steel and use it to dress out an elk.

Very cool! I love hearing your perspective on this! I also really like 154cm and cpm. But one of my absolute favorites atm is 14c28n!

All steel aside, that Microtech hellhound in the middle is sick!!! I want that!

It retains an edge while not being that hard to sharpen with today's wide availability of pro level sharpening kits, and it sounds coooool. M390 sounds way better than 420HC 😂

Me personally I prefer the edge retention all while having good corrosion resistance, I work in a place where I am constantly putting my knife in contact with ice and frozen cardboard, so when I need to grab grab food from a box In The freezer and the boxes are stacked to where it makes it time consuming to unstick them in a rush I need to be able to cut through that cardboard consistently throughout the day without worrying about the ice damaging the blade, the corrosion resistance comes into play because I don’t always have the time to dry my knife off if I’m in the lunch or dinner rush so I need to be able to put it in my pocket and not rust over time. For my use m390 is ideal keeps a sharp edge so I can cut through the ice and cardboard without damaging the blade and resistant enough so I don’t have to dry it off after every use.

Recently, I've seen some reputable Blade Testers stunned by LC200N's and Vanax's edge retention ( Steels known for corrosion resistance but not edge retention/ hardness).

While you might be standing on the shoulders of giants with the info, you have condensed it nicely within one video. I’m inclined to agree with everything you said here.

I can appreciate all the super steels but in my opinion S35vn and s110v are prob the best edc steels out there.

Its interesting in a small fixed blade about 4mm thick. I have a lionsteel M4 in m390 and as long as you keep in mind its not for hard use then its amazing as a general user. 3V is the beater steel

Been learning a bit after being underwhelmed by my Benchmade Freed in S30V. Not a bad knife by any means, just didn't meet my expectations. Mind you it's my EDC so for that purpose I prefer higher edge retention. Looking at a fixed blade this time around. Considering the Bradford Guardian 3 in M390

Kershaw bareknuckle is not a m390 steel. Everywhere I've looked they use Sandvik 14C28N.

M390PM is pretty expensive as raw stock. The PM stands for Powder Metallurgical, which means that is compressed as a powder. It's also rather difficult to machine, it eats specialized tools for tough material for breakfast. Great material, tough but great

Unless made in small batches....and without the right heat-treat ... nothing. Great video though 👌👍

The Least of my concerns is corrosion resistance. EVERYTHING where I live and work corrodes and must be properly cared for. Ramble on brother!

It's like if you own a Porsche 911 and a chevelle 95, I wouldn't drive the 911 to go for the groceries... Let's be honest if I own a 200+ dls knife I wouldn't use it to cut some cables, cardboard or stuff, for that I'll use a 20 dls blade... it's more to impress, to show off or start a conversation than to work with a M390, 20CV or S35VN blade, at least that's what I thnk... Great review as always, thanks!!

Im still stuck back here in s30v and s35vn steel...then i purchased a Super Freek. Then i purchase a Maxamet Para 3. What the hell did I get myself into?

My man, in each hobby there’s a guy that knows a lot of it and speaks reasonably,knowledgeable and honest. Without worrying if he’s catering for the status quo. You are that person of the knife world. The asmongold of knives. Even though I disagree with you on some stuff like you not liking the spyderco pattadese system but not criticizing the awful cold steel ad-15 heinous locking monstrosity.

it is 100% accurate to say that there is no best steel. Too many variables. Can you imagine a Cold Steel SRK in S110V? Somebody would ask, why did you get it serrated and I would say, I didn't. But I also think that is accurate to say that preferences are a real thing and for knife enthusiasts, I can guess that a lot of thought and research and some trial and error goes into developing a preferred blade steel. Of course, then the knife enthusiast is likely to come across a Cedric and Ada vid that says the blade steel is less important than the heat treat and the blade geometry. Then...that knife enthusiast will be devastated and question all of reality as nothing makes sense any more. Is nothing sacred?!? (there is a small chance I am not talking about me). (Sorry, I am on vacation and I have been drinking). (shit, my wife might read this).

There is the factor of knowing you have the best...whatever it may be..whether it makes a difference or not.

Sandvik is the Swedish one and the Bohler is the Austrian made one we call German steel. I understand what you're saying, but I say choose whatever steel, blade type, hardness doesn't mean a damn if it's all poor quality. Look what Buck was able to with that 420 BS steel!😂 We live in an age where we can choose to be a snob. For me I find all these steel recipes interesting. Don't worry we have Magnacut, which is already getting boring to people, is going to probably be replaced with a Tungstacut.😂

For the obvious reason of having zero mechanical parts a fixed blade such as a mora is a far better choice for those who are going to "beat" their knives. As for the knives you've got there, they're more for utility and personal protection which a great steal is perfect for.

Spartan blades has it right, they use s45vn all there knife models. It's a great steel that can be worked in the field

For my budget Bohler N690, VG-10 and CPM are the best I can afford. Still think I'm doing just fine

I rinse my whole 0562ti under the faucet CPM 20CV all good

M390 is my favorite for EDC. 1095 for fixed blades. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤘🏻

Jeez there's so many knife steels now ..just get something 14C28N quality and above and your all good!

That’s not true, I take great offense to that statement Aus8 is the best steel 🤣

My Dividend M390 was dwarfed by those that youve shown. But still M390 though 😄

I personally think your taking compared toughness out of context. When compared to 3v, 4v, m4 ect....m390 seems like it's not very tough. But it is... M390 is held up there due to how well rounded is it. It has high edge retention, high corrosion resistance and is pretty dam tough(just as much as s35vn if both are perfectly heat treated per manufacturer guidelines). But it sucks to sharpen for most. I use diamond to sharpen it and it's a breeze. Hap40 and REX45 are harder to sharpen...but on diamond plates... not really. Anyways, basically there is nothing else out there as well rounded. S45VN is also a super well rounded steel from the looks of it. But it'll have better toughness at the cost of edge retention(probably). It is going to make a great fixed blade steel (maybe). In many ways steel has a balancing act. Maxamet is SUPER hard, but has low toughness and isn't stainless. Rex45/hap40(same steel) is not as hard as Maxamet, but is slightly tougher and slightly more stainless(but still not stainless) M390(20cv/204p) I think is the best ALL around steel for a folding knife. Are all of my folding knives m390? Nope. I have some hap40, rex45, zdp189, maxamet...ect. The knife I bought my girl is zdp-189(ladybug on her keys). Why? Because she's only using it to cut boxes. I won't need to sharpen it for like 5 years. They knife she has in her purse for just in case oh shit moments....20cv. why? Because it's exposed to all sorts of crap in there. It's not going to rust(I did treat it with tuff glide) and I trust her life with it. There's always a steel for the job. My hiking knife is s35vn because...it's a great steel and cost(would I like a 4v, or V4E knife? Hell yes, but cost comes into the factor.) As with most things, you have to pay 50-200% more for that extra 10% in performance. That Kershaw you have... unfortunately it's been proven it's heat treatment is....poor. sorry... The Kershaw link 1776 comes in 390 and 20cv. I was all sorts of excited. But Kershaw isn't heat treating the blades as well as they are with the zero tolerance blades. 56-57 is where I think I saw it at. Which is far too soft for that steel. Anyways. When it comes to the top tier super steels. M390 is the ONLY steel that is well rounded. All of the other steels give up something. Ultra tough, but low edge retention (even though now a days it's still really good edge retention) and isn't stainless. Ultra hard, but will chip and will rust. There is no comparable steel to a let's say m390 @ 59-61 HRC. S30vn no, S35VN no, s90v very close no, s110v no ect... Ect... Then you have to add on top of this, the steel company's just renaming steels. IE hap40 is the same steel as the newest and greatest REX45. So this causes massive confusion. For m390/20cv/204p. Heat treat is 100% king. Not only heat treat, but cryo treatment as well. 60-61hrc is where it's the most well rounded and earns it's rep. If not properly heated I believe I read(on a manufacturer site(one of the 3) basically EVERYTHING drops(edge retention, corrosion resistance, and toughness), I believe while being at a higher hardness, the toughness is actually higher as well. It has its place. I personally think it is the best EDC pocket knife steel(for under 4 inches). But some will swear Maxamet is. Well, the human body sweats and if your carrying it in your pocket, the evaporated sweat is going to coat the blade. So you will eventually get rust on a non stainless knife. In a pocket knife under 4 inches, I don't think you'll be able to exert enough force to need that toughness to break it without being really really really stupid. As a side note. I have a xm-183 3.5 skinny in m390 with a slicer blade. It's my EDC and it's great. It's done everything I've asked for it. But...I bought a slicer blade for a reason. One steel I truly believe is....over priced and over hyped for pocket knives is s35vn. Especially in Chris Reeves knives. His heat treatment imo is too low @58hrc. But I wouldn't pick s35vn over m390 in a pocket knife. From what I've come across, S35VN is used SO MUCH is due to is being significantly easier to grind(easier on the belts, so reduced cost to manufacture) vs other powder steel, even s30v. It's one of the reasons it was compounded the it was. S45VN, will slowly trickle out. It has the edge retention (maybe better) of s30v, the toughness (probably better) of s35vn with even higher corrosion resistance. Will s45vn out do m390. Who knows. It'll always depend on the heat treatment. I personally own alot of Spyderco knives. Why? Because I believe they are 100% on point with their heat treatment. With Spyderco, I 100% believe your paying for their steel(you know it's on point with heat treatment). Look at their light weight models. Good to...decent ergos(plastic ass handle), but with in most cases high end steel. I have a pm2, pm3 lw, smock and Manix 2 in m390. I use most of them quite a bit. I've never sharpened(I have stroped them) them and they can still shave the hair on my arm off and have no chips). I had a microtech utx 85 in m390 that I used the hell out! It was my only knife.(btw...if it gets cold, the lube freezes and won't deploy) So... That knife saw some crazy action I'm embarrassed to say. Someone stole it. So....my....knife buying started look for the perfect knife! Can a perfectly heat treated d2 steel....para 2 out perform a poorly treated para 2 in m390 in every way? No...d2 still isn't stainless... So it would depend on your environment.... Sorry for this book. As I said....I have many knifes in all sorts of steel. I have many many Spyderco spirit runs in many many types of steel. I still choose m390 as my EDC. I don't really have to take care of it besides stropping the blade now and them(plain leather strap with 5k grit diamond paste works great for touch ups on....ANY steel very quickly) We aren't in a war zone, so sharpening shouldn't come into play. Don't want to sharpen your Maxamet? Send it to Spyderco with some pocket change and save yourself 2-3 hours of anger. Hell, I recently reprofiled my spyderco Manix 2 with rex45 to 10degrees(per side), with a 15 degree micro bevel. Why? Because it's duty is to sit by the front door and open packages. So why not? It glides through everything like nothing is there. It's inside so rust will never be a problem(I also tuff coated it). I kinda purchased it for that task. Anywho, there's always a correct steel for a job. I wouldnt buy m390 on a fixed blade. I would get 4V, V4E or something of the like if my funds allow and I would have it Cerakoted. BTW dont buy a non stainless steel knife with a DLC coating. It will protect it from scratches, but it doesn't protect from rust. It will eventually rust under the DLC, Cerakote is king in this area. Your xm-24 will do GREAT in 20cv. It's thick enough to...not need to worry...at all. That blade will will hold your body weight without an issue. Will the rest of the knife? Being a Hinderer...yeah...but it may be more chippy vs s35vn. BTW the 20% chromium in the m390 doesn't mean it's SUPER corrosion resistant, it is very very corrosion resistant. But there's something in it, that bonds to chromium, reducing it's effective resistance, while increasing it's toughness. It's more corrosion resistant vs s90v. Which is why I choose it over s90v. My BM 940-2001 is 90v. But...it was a present from my girl and she did good. Anywho.... Have a good day sir. Let me know your opinion if you read this far! 😁

What’s a cheap alternative to M390. Is there any? I own a M390 and it was quite expensive. But I like the blade very much. Is there a cheaper steel similar to M390?

7:53 - what ...30?

Hey I just bought a Kershaw bareknuckle in 20cv is Kershaws 20cv on par with other companies 20cv

I have lived on boats in south central Alaska for over twenty years ,have had all types of knives and tools and had minimal problems with rust and corission as long as I don't soak it with seawater.

what are your thoughts on the bench made 535bk-4? will you be getting one?

What is better overall m390 or elmax?

Well not all heat treatments between manufacturers is the same. Some get it right some dont and that's weather we talk m390 or a traditional carbon steel like 1095. Example would be Esee's 1095 which i found to be the most over rated knives i ever owned made of 1095 where other brands are 3 times better. I have come to really favor Bradford Knives Guardian 3 and Guardian 4 fixed blades made of M390 as well as both models made of rex45. I am very impressed with the edge retention and performance as well as sharpening quickly and efficiently with Naniwa Diamond resin bonded waterstones.

I’d like to get a blade in m390 or a different super steel. Unfortunately I just can’t afford it especially now. This virus sucks

Do you still have that brass sigil

…I’ve definitely thrown lots of folding knives as a kid. Spoiler alert: they all broke in some way or another. They were all cheap no name brands tho

Böhler is Austrian. Not Swedish. They bought Uddeholm however. A Swedish steelmaker.

I have a steel question? Can a completely titanium knife get constructed?

4 y/old blog... I read it has 1 year left... now we have better options coming up

Best knife up there is the $75 Kershaw simply because it reflects what most of these knives should cost. It is USA made too.

Would you like m390 for a kitchen knife ?

How do cts-xhp and elmax rank against m390? I have a couple of cold steel's in cts-xhp and my ultratech and zt 0562 in elmax. Seems these two steels are being used less and less.

Thanks, great info ! That we all are curious about..Kerry

What is the graph in the thumbnail?

and how much the designer gets

Why is it that the $600 microtech looks like one of those ugly county fair knives you take a quick glance at for a laugh

2 years later there is a "best" steel. Magnacut has better edge retention than M390; toughness like 4v; and more stainless than m390!

FYI: I am a subscriber and patron...discovered today that I had been unsubscribed. I obviously re-subbed, but I think RU-vid is playing a dangerous game. 🤬 Edit: added the angry face for added effect...😑

But what about BD1N compare to m390?

BOHLER is an Austrian company

m390 is the best allrounder.

Great video man! 👍

You like it so it is great.

Interesting discussion 🤔💮

This video might impact your monetisation status. You mention stabbing around 14 minuted. Most of us get your is in the context of prying or similar work. RU-vid may not.

Great video!

Sell me your Kershaw Bare knuckle.

Is you want a knife to beat hard get a fixed blade Kabar 1095 steel. Easier to sharpen. If you NEED a folding knife then you’re probably lying to yourself lol. Get mad don’t care. 🤷

$370 more for a homefront with m390? That's kinda ridiculous.

Where from Kansas are you from?

Austria

Man, I don't know. I'm a user, and that vg-10/154CM/cpm154 range is what I go to. Doesn't matter if its hip, it just strops real nice and stays sharp even with "work" use.

Great video! I would love to see this in a series of something. Talk about why everyone love D2 or how s35vn is better than S30v. I love these rambling informational videos to basically podcast

Good video. The best line in to me was " there is no best steel" they all have there place from 8cr 13mov to d2 to m4 or m390. Different steels for different price points/ uses. 8cr is a fine steel for edc and learning how to sharpen. D2 is tough as nails, but can rust a little easier. S35vn is probably the best all round. Its good for edge holding, toughness,sharpenability, and corrosion resistance. But not fantastic for any of those.

I find myself gravitating toward premium steels for sure. And if I'm being honest with myself, with the way that I am, it's not all that necessary. The reason being is that I prefer starting my day off with a really sharp edge. And regardless of the steel, I have to touch up the edge at the end of the day. Even if I only cut 1 cardboard box. I gotta have that initial sharpness.

20:56 Never say never; apparently a lot of people, from what I've heard, seem to think CPM MagnaCut might actually be the "best" steel. I have no idea though, because I've never seen it or used, nothing. But people definitely seem stoked about it after Blade Show 2021. Wish I could've been there! Someday I'd love to attend for the first time! 😃

I don't mind sharpening 20cv but S110v is an absolute nightmare, I took my XM-18 down to 36deg inclusive and it really didn't take as long as I thought it would

And then CPM 3V stepped into the ring.

Is there a better value than that bareknuckle in 20cv? When I got mine it was $110 and I thought it was a good price. Then today i see it on Smokey Mountain Knife Works for $78! They are still in stock so if you're looking for an excellent edc knife, I'd go and grab one quick. One of Kershaw's best imo.

I love my Para 3 LW M390 DLT Trading Exclusive. I was about to get a Manix 2 M390 Brown G-10. But now, I don’t know if I will still go for it or the Para 3 CPM S35VN Brown G-10. Need your help sir. **By the way sir, I sweat a lot 🤣.

Technically if one is looking for a “hard” steel then I would suggest a fixed blade with something like 3V

I really like 14C28N... Looking at other steel and been eyeballing Elmax, m390, and Magna cut.... I wanted to get one good knife that was premium... But wanted to put some logic behind it before deciding and right now Elmax looks pretty good for the price.. been eyeballing giant mouse and LionSTEEL knives.... (fixed blade wise)... But joker has some great one's in 14C28N sandvik stainless steel... because it's pretty close to what I need and I live in a very wet environment thusly, Stainless is at tge top of my list but still don't want to over pay for something like Magna cut... And already have a few knives in 14C28N, which is a great balance of all the different things you talked about here in the video, but the edge retention is a little sucky, but I make it easy peasy with my work Sharp Field version😎✌️

My favorite steel is f 150 coil spring, especially if I'm going to be opening packages. I've only seen one though specifically custom made for said task....it's probably priceless, money means nothing when a goal that lofty is pursued.

I have the paramilitary2 in m390 with blue g-10

Aren't most steels plenty tough for nearly all knife duties even batoning? Even M390? Seems to me that toughness is a feature that rarely gfets pushed to the limit until you start prying and doing non cutting type activities. I have seen pretrty impressive tests of steels not considered tough. Failures tend to be more from bad heat treats, anomolies in the steel and bad geometry/design such as sharp transitions, jimping where energy is concentrated to a tiny spot or a combination of any of these. This may be controversial but I think steel toughness is much more used for marketing than real world benefit 90% of usersIts still steel, the stuff is pretty tough regardless otherwise we would be seeing busted blades. Just look at the Dutch Knives guys breaking that Magnacut, the trendiest steel , failed due to inclusion in steel.

My favorite daily carry knife is my ZT 0450 in S35VN. I don't mind sharpening it. I recently got a Smock but I haven't had to touch up that lightsaber of a knife just yet.

OMG...☺️.....I want to pick up a new CTS204P Socom Elite to round out 3 other Socoms I have.... Those being 1. 2011 Duratech 20-CV SCElite 2. 2012 CTS204P SCElite, Microtech made a run of about 50-100 of them only I n drop point, but satin, stonewash (I think) and blk coated blades....I think they serrated a few...I’ve only seen plain edge🤔 3. 2019 M390 SCElite A few years back I figured hunting for the original 20-CV Elites would be tough...but over time I’ve accumulated 3, never paying over $475 for any one piece. The 2012 CTS204P model was one that I didn’t even know existed until I saw the one I bought for sale on Arizona Custom Knives, $345, a very good price... One thing Microtech did in the past was use a variety of steels during a run of one particular model ...ATS-34 still popped up in runs in 2014....

Thanks for some metal talk from Metal Complex... Always enjoy you "rambling" LOL!

Great informative video. I was worried I had screwed the pooch with my s35vn knives cuz I started to hear all about m390 being so much better. But now I know that s35vn is perfectly fine for what I use it for. Great content

Great video!! I started laughing when you said you just purchased another knife in 20CV, I bought a WE knives Deacon 901E 4 days ago and I was seeking M390 when I bought it haha! I knew it would be comparable to my Native 5 S110v in edge retention so I pulled the trigger on a $245 knife. Everything you said is really on point about choosing a blade steel and style of knife for specific uses and applications. I’ve been into folders for about 12 years, it all started with my BM Griptilian (154CM) and that grip is now my official glove box knife in my car. My tastes have changed in that time and I’ve learned a lot about different steels and lock types and which knife to use for what task. I have a spyderco sharpmaker and it was like banging my head against a brick wall trying to get my s110v back to its factory edge so I sent it off in the mail to a friend for sharpening. One of my all time favorites that I carry at least a couple days a week is my green micarta Steel Will gekko mini in N690co It’s a killer steel, it holds a nice edge and it’s super easy to touch up/sharpen. The ergos of that knife are amazing too. After buying/selling/trading knives since 2008 I’ve settled on 3 keepers that I rotate in and out of my pocket. Native 5 LW S110v Steel will gekko mini N690co ZT 0808 S35vn The WE Deacon will get into that rotation also, I’ve been carrying it for a day and a half and it’s super nice, the fit and finish and QC is worth the price tag and I know it’ll hold its edge for a long time, I just need to buy a strop, everyone on the various FB knife groups keeps telling me that. Oh and my 6 year old daughter keeps wanting me to take the WE out of my pocket so she can touch the carbon fiber!! 😂 Cool video, you’ve got a new subscriber! Cheers and stay safe out there.

way over ratted for fools money

Funny thing is I finally bought a socom in 204p and the reason I held off is steel toughness but it's STEEL, this things a beast

Once again. 30 min of my life i can never get back.. 😁😁😁😁😁

Love the information, appreciate it as always

I have a Benchmade 555-1 20cv... It's my fav and most used EDC ... I literally use it for everything from cooking to work(wearhouse ton of cardboard)... I have a fallkniven fine stone and ultrafine stone ... I never understood why people hate sharpening 20cv I sharpen once a month for like 5 min and my knife is razor sharp ... I will admit it is easier to chip then my esee 4 1095

I'm here because I really want a Lionsteel M4. I do use my knife and m390 doesn't give me butterflies. Doesn't necessarily sound like the steel for me but I suppose I can make do and not destroy it too bad.

"M390 is overhyped and overpriced." - Larrin Thomas